BoxRec

MontyCircus wrote: ↑14 Feb 2021, 04:45 Saturday, Feb. 20th
"5-star" rated David Avanesyan vs. "4-star" rated Josh Kelly
Showing up as a "no-star" fight.

Also Saturday, Feb. 20th
"3½-star" rated Gabriel Flores Jr. vs. "3½-star" rated Jayson Velez
Showing up as a "no-star" fight

Offthehook wrote: ↑13 Feb 2021, 19:44 Respectively computerrank how the hell did zelfa Barrett who was given a gift decision tonight jump to number 2 in the uk?!

Surely the system
Should account for robberies

Also again respectively, zelfa had 11.12 points and went to 23.12 points when kiko only had 5.234 points prior? I mean how is that even possible?

Please rectify this when you have time, we all appreciate what u do, but I’m sure you know this isn’t right.

jujigatame wrote: ↑13 Feb 2021, 21:10 It's kind of difficult for a computerized system to account for robberies. You pretty much have to trust the official scorecards, for better or for worse.

This new system really seems to favor very recent results. Like I looked at the rankings at 122 because both Rios and Hovannisyan are both fighting tonight, and despite Hovannisyan having KO'd Rios a few years ago Rios is now ranked pretty significantly ahead of him. It's pretty similar to the situation I noticed earlier with Josh Taylor. If you're not constantly fighting good opponents your rating starts to fall off a cliff very fast in this system.

computerrank wrote: ↑14 Feb 2021, 07:27

Offthehook wrote: ↑13 Feb 2021, 19:44 Respectively computerrank how the hell did zelfa Barrett who was given a gift decision tonight jump to number 2 in the uk?!

Surely the system
Should account for robberies

Also again respectively, zelfa had 11.12 points and went to 23.12 points when kiko only had 5.234 points prior? I mean how is that even possible?

Please rectify this when you have time, we all appreciate what u do, but I’m sure you know this isn’t right.

The system goes with the official result - and that was a win with a score difference of 5.7 points per judge. So for Boxrec it was a 95% decision on points.
It was enough to get at UK #2 - just with #3.

Offthehook wrote: ↑14 Feb 2021, 10:24

computerrank wrote: ↑14 Feb 2021, 07:27

Offthehook wrote: ↑13 Feb 2021, 19:44 Respectively computerrank how the hell did zelfa Barrett who was given a gift decision tonight jump to number 2 in the uk?!

Surely the system
Should account for robberies

Also again respectively, zelfa had 11.12 points and went to 23.12 points when kiko only had 5.234 points prior? I mean how is that even possible?

Please rectify this when you have time, we all appreciate what u do, but I’m sure you know this isn’t right.

The system goes with the official result - and that was a win with a score difference of 5.7 points per judge. So for Boxrec it was a 95% decision on points.
It was enough to get at UK #2 - just with #3.

Ok I understand boxrec can’t go against robberies, but grabbing 10 points from a guy who only has 5? How does that work I thought they get a portion of there opponents points or all of them for a knockout.

Rocky- wrote: ↑15 Feb 2021, 09:31 Patrick Teixeira https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/508315

vs

Brian Carlos Castano https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/625137

Rated 3 stars still

Castano is rated 5 stars, Teixeira 4 stars

computerrank wrote: ↑15 Feb 2021, 10:52

Rocky- wrote: ↑15 Feb 2021, 09:31 Patrick Teixeira https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/508315

vs

Brian Carlos Castano https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/625137

Rated 3 stars still

Castano is rated 5 stars, Teixeira 4 stars

There is a discrepancy between the current rating of a boxer and his rating at bout time. This is due to the winner above loser rule. The current rating may be shifted by that rule.

The boxer star rating is calculated from his current rating. The bout star rating is calculated from the boxers unshifted ratings at bout time.

So there may be a difference.

Basically the ratings could calculate the shifted ratings at bout time for each bout. But that would consume more computer power in the daily run.

Rocky- wrote: ↑15 Feb 2021, 16:51

computerrank wrote: ↑15 Feb 2021, 10:52

Rocky- wrote: ↑15 Feb 2021, 09:31 Patrick Teixeira https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/508315

vs

Brian Carlos Castano https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/625137

Rated 3 stars still

Castano is rated 5 stars, Teixeira 4 stars

There is a discrepancy between the current rating of a boxer and his rating at bout time. This is due to the winner above loser rule. The current rating may be shifted by that rule.

The boxer star rating is calculated from his current rating. The bout star rating is calculated from the boxers unshifted ratings at bout time.

So there may be a difference.

Basically the ratings could calculate the shifted ratings at bout time for each bout. But that would consume more computer power in the daily run.

Pretty sure Teixeira peaked at 4.5 stars in the wake of his victory over Carlos Adames https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/723287

I don't understand why the bout rating got downgraded so severely.

computerrank wrote: ↑15 Feb 2021, 17:26

Rocky- wrote: ↑15 Feb 2021, 16:51

computerrank wrote: ↑15 Feb 2021, 10:52 There is a discrepancy between the current rating of a boxer and his rating at bout time. This is due to the winner above loser rule. The current rating may be shifted by that rule.

The boxer star rating is calculated from his current rating. The bout star rating is calculated from the boxers unshifted ratings at bout time.

So there may be a difference.

Basically the ratings could calculate the shifted ratings at bout time for each bout. But that would consume more computer power in the daily run.

Pretty sure Teixeira peaked at 4.5 stars in the wake of his victory over Carlos Adames https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/723287

I don't understand why the bout rating got downgraded so severely.

Teixeira lost straight to Castano after 15 months. Only his win against Adames kept him up. Otherwise he would be down even lower.

Rocky- wrote: ↑16 Feb 2021, 02:45

computerrank wrote: ↑15 Feb 2021, 17:26

Rocky- wrote: ↑15 Feb 2021, 16:51

Pretty sure Teixeira peaked at 4.5 stars in the wake of his victory over Carlos Adames https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/723287

I don't understand why the bout rating got downgraded so severely.

Teixeira lost straight to Castano after 15 months. Only his win against Adames kept him up. Otherwise he would be down even lower.

That's the thing, he should be lower (3.5 stars) to match the bout rating. The rating system doesn't make sense as it stands.

computerrank wrote: ↑14 Feb 2021, 07:45

jujigatame wrote: ↑13 Feb 2021, 21:10 It's kind of difficult for a computerized system to account for robberies. You pretty much have to trust the official scorecards, for better or for worse.

This new system really seems to favor very recent results. Like I looked at the rankings at 122 because both Rios and Hovannisyan are both fighting tonight, and despite Hovannisyan having KO'd Rios a few years ago Rios is now ranked pretty significantly ahead of him. It's pretty similar to the situation I noticed earlier with Josh Taylor. If you're not constantly fighting good opponents your rating starts to fall off a cliff very fast in this system.

Havannisyan defeated Rios 3 year ago. The scope of the Boxrec winner-above-loser rule is 18 months.

The WHR ratings drop, if a boxer doesn't confirm his rating with a proper result in time. The longer the time difference the higher the relative requirements. The rating drops, because Boxrec makes a conservative estimation of the rating. The longer the time difference the higher the uncertainty of the rating - and that decreases the estimated value of the rating.

But Boxrec will introduce a stay-busy-bout rule. That means a boxer will keep the highest rating within the last 18 months, as long as his record shows clear wins. So if there are stay busy bouts or clear wins against inferior opponents later, that won't drop the rating.

That new rule is implemented and in the pipeline to go live.

computerrank wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 15:58

That new rule is implemented and in the pipeline to go live.

mike1989 wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 16:45

computerrank wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 15:58 The new stay-busy-bout rule is set life now. The complete changed ratings will be visible after the next daily ratings run on 2021-02-18.

I just for test made an instant update for the ratings of Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua. So you can even now see, Anthony Joshua is now rated #2.

Martin like Yenthony Joshua can have 795 points if he flew to Yndi Ruiz by TKO then won 208 points in Ruiz. Judging by the rating, Ruiz before Joshua had only sacks. After Ruiz, Joshua had Kubrat Pulev 49 points. Then from where in Anthony Joshua 795 points. This is absurd!

computerrank wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 17:00

mike1989 wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 16:45

computerrank wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 15:58 The new stay-busy-bout rule is set life now. The complete changed ratings will be visible after the next daily ratings run on 2021-02-18.

I just for test made an instant update for the ratings of Tyson Fury and Anthony Joshua. So you can even now see, Anthony Joshua is now rated #2.

Martin like Yenthony Joshua can have 795 points if he flew to Yndi Ruiz by TKO then won 208 points in Ruiz. Judging by the rating, Ruiz before Joshua had only sacks. After Ruiz, Joshua had Kubrat Pulev 49 points. Then from where in Anthony Joshua 795 points. This is absurd!

I already explained that in the posts before - That means a boxer will keep the highest rating within the last 18 months, as long as his record shows clear wins. So if there are stay busy bouts or clear wins against inferior opponents later, that won't drop the rating ...

mike1989 wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 18:34

computerrank wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 17:00

mike1989 wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 16:45

Martin like Yenthony Joshua can have 795 points if he flew to Yndi Ruiz by TKO then won 208 points in Ruiz. Judging by the rating, Ruiz before Joshua had only sacks. After Ruiz, Joshua had Kubrat Pulev 49 points. Then from where in Anthony Joshua 795 points. This is absurd!

I already explained that in the posts before - That means a boxer will keep the highest rating within the last 18 months, as long as his record shows clear wins. So if there are stay busy bouts or clear wins against inferior opponents later, that won't drop the rating ...

Martin, please explain how it happened that after Yndy Ruiz's victory over Yenthony Joshua, Yndy's current rating was 273.6 points and the loser Joshua had 776.5 points.
And the second. Like Yndy Ruiz, the rating before the fight with Joshua was 263 points when the top defeated position was Thor Hamer 7,217 points. How ???????????????

computerrank wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 18:45
- Joshua's ratings at time of his loss against Ruiz kept high because it was an upset. And Ruiz couldn't overtake Joshua by that. The winner-above_loser rule only is applied for the current ratings.
- The impact of later results is propagated back into the past. Ruiz rating at time of the bouts before Joshua was retrospectively increased, because he later defeated Joshua.

mike1989 wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 03:21

computerrank wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 18:45
- Joshua's ratings at time of his loss against Ruiz kept high because it was an upset. And Ruiz couldn't overtake Joshua by that. The winner-above_loser rule only is applied for the current ratings.
- The impact of later results is propagated back into the past. Ruiz rating at time of the bouts before Joshua was retrospectively increased, because he later defeated Joshua.

This is not logical and is definitely not explained by a mathematical formula.
And what about Yndi Ruiz's rating? There cannot be a fighter in the top 5 with the best defeated position # 45 ????

computerrank wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 04:11

mike1989 wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 03:21

computerrank wrote: ↑17 Feb 2021, 18:45
- Joshua's ratings at time of his loss against Ruiz kept high because it was an upset. And Ruiz couldn't overtake Joshua by that. The winner-above_loser rule only is applied for the current ratings.
- The impact of later results is propagated back into the past. Ruiz rating at time of the bouts before Joshua was retrospectively increased, because he later defeated Joshua.

This is not logical and is definitely not explained by a mathematical formula.
And what about Yndi Ruiz's rating? There cannot be a fighter in the top 5 with the best defeated position # 45 ????

That is all very logical and well explained here ...

https://www.remi-coulom.fr/WHR/

and Ruiz once defeated Joshua, or?

mike1989 wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 16:02

computerrank wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 04:11

mike1989 wrote: ↑18 Feb 2021, 03:21

This is not logical and is definitely not explained by a mathematical formula.
And what about Yndi Ruiz's rating? There cannot be a fighter in the top 5 with the best defeated position # 45 ????

That is all very logical and well explained here ...

https://www.remi-coulom.fr/WHR/

and Ruiz once defeated Joshua, or?

I don't mind that there are 206 points in Endi Ruiz. I am against that in Anthony Joshua 792 points. There is no such difference between them! Judging by the numbers Entoni in the rematch should have smeared Ruiz, but in fact it was an equal fight.!