Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Chuck1052]

Roger, I found that Red Watson, a San Diego fighter whose career spanned from 1909 to 1923, apparently became addicted to opiates and was arrested for a burglary in 1919. After being convicted and sentenced to 1-15 years in prison, he was found to have hypodermic needle marks on both legs at the time that he was being processed at San Quentin. Looking at his mug shots, it is hard to believe that he was only in his middle 20s at the time. It should be pointed out that Watson also served a stretch as minor at a youth incarceration facility in Whittier. Watson apparently passed away while in his early 30s during 1926.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

Roger, I found that Red Watson, a San Diego fighter whose career spanned from 1909 to 1923, apparently became addicted to opiates and was arrested for a burglary in 1919. After being convicted and sentenced to 1-15 years in prison, he was found to have hypodermic needle marks on both legs at the time that he was being processed at San Quentin. Looking at his mug shots, it is hard to believe that he was only in his middle 20s at the time. It should be pointed out that Watson also served a stretch as minor at a youth incarceration facility in Whittier. Watson apparently passed away while in his early 30s during 1926.

- Chuck Johnston
[/quote

Chuck
That's really going back some. The Coliseum wasn't even built yet and neither was the Olympic Auditorium. Back then the lifespan was around 45 years of age. People were dying of illnesses like the flu. I guess many wanted to exert as much recklessness in that short period of time as they could muster.

[dagosd2000]

Sex And The Single Robot

Hollywood has enticed us with the concept of a "robo cop." In the movie of the same name,a resurrected policeman is rebuilt with cybernetic components and then is turned loose on the local crime wave kicking ass and taking names.

Hookers across the planet are demonstrating against the upsurge of sex doll brothels. If a "john" feels uncomfortable going to a den of sin to take advantage of a plastic prostitute,he can shop on line and purchase a customized latex lady and the seller will have it delivered in a plain brown box.

Remember that Twilight Zone episode about the robot fighter played by Lee Marvin? Prizefighting between mortal men had been banned because of humanitarian reasoning.Thus, robots are pitted against each other in the ring.The fans seemed to be as rabid backing their favorite combat computer as the old flesh and blood type pug.At least that's how Rod Serling scripted it.

Drones are doing the work soldiers ,jet airplanes,and the U.S. Post Office are intended to perform.Foam made females are turning tricks faster than you can say lickety cl-t. But I think Rod Serling was thinking in the Twilight Zone when he visualized the future of boxing involving android antagonists. It just wouldn't seem like old times. There wouldn't be cause for a training camp.The cyborgs wouldn't have need to skip rope,hit the speed bag,or spar with another metallic monster. There'd be no more weigh ins with all the mad dogging and stare downs. Press conferences,interviews,and the pre fight tours around the world promoting the upcoming match would go out the window. Human interest stories? You got to be kidding.


But there could be an upside to factory made fighters. They could have careers that last forever,their superstructures passed along from generation to generation. There'd be no more worries about dementia or death in the ring.The managers and trainers wouldn't have to worry about some floozy moving in and causing a distraction. However,the backers of these constructed KO artists would be prudent to check the mail everyday. You never know when a plain brown box could arrive at the front door



Rod Serling's Twilight Zone episode,"Steel",featuring robot fighters

[dagosd2000]

Throwing Strikes

Looking back on it now I see things a lot more clearly. I understand what he was trying to tell me When I was in junior high school I met Lee Ramage, The Lee Ramage that fought Joe Louis twice. In my first period English class I remember there was a new kid. He was a gangly looking ,frail framed,light complected boy. Horned rimmed glasses hid most of his face. When our English teacher,Mrs. Messick,was going through the roll the first day of class and got to his name,he stood up at attention and said "Present." Of course that gesture elicited some chuckles.
"You don't have to stand when I call on you Mike,"said the old spinster sympathetically.
I made friends with the new kid,Mike. Out on the playground he was uncoordinated and slow. He shied away from contact when we played flag football.When the game was basketball no one passed him the ball. We became friends mainly because he was in the school orchestra like I was. I was "last chair" cello.Mike played the string bass in the back row. But we liked classical music,and though we were cognizant of the fact that neither of us would play for the symphony,we grew to appreciate classical music

Mike's last name was "Ramage" and through him I got to meet his Uncle Lee,the guy who fought Joe louis twice. Before enrolling at the public school,Mike had attended Brown Military School in Pacific Beach(that's why he stood at attention the first day of class),a suburb of San Diego. Brown Military was one of the last military schools in California. Mike's father had been killed in the last year of war.He was one of the last casualties. One afternoon when the final school bell rang,we went over to his house to play chess. I was the kind of kid who liked to read,listen to classical music,and play chess. But I had an alter ego that liked rough stuff too. I had my share of fights after school "on the lower field."Word would get around during the day that there was going to be a fight(always one on one battles) on the lower field after school. If the vice principal didn't get wind of it,there would be a big crowd urging their favorite combatant to out last the other guy. There was no thing like kicking or the use of a stick or knife. I remember some of those fights seemed like they went on forever. If I was a participant,I knew I had Mike in my corner.


That day we went over to his house to play chess is when I met his uncle. Mike's mother was there,and so was his grandmother. They both doted over Mike.His mother was always very nice and carried herself with a subtle dignity.She was prim and always neatly dressed. Mike was an only child. I think Mike's mother relied on her brother in law to be the male role model for his nephew. Mike and I were engrossed in the chess game when his Uncle Lee came in to watch. I don't think he knew how to play chess or cared,but he seemed interested.
"So who's winning?"he asked a little quizzically.
"Roger,"Mike said standing up."I want to introduce you to my Uncle Lee."
I shook his hand and felt his dominant grip. I looked at his stony face and started to put together the name "Ramage" with a countenance that said "fighter." At that time I was not only acquiring an attention to boxing,but the history of the sport I found compelling.
"Are you the same Lee Ramage that fought Joe Louis?"I asked rhetorically.
"I was the victim.Twice,"he said laughing.
I could tell he had been around and was free and easy. The blend of a sturdy veneer and a good nature inside his strong frame produced an absolute bond with me.
He talked about how he tried to out box Joe Louis in their first fight and was winning early,but then he said Louis caught him with a right and then chaos ensued. There was a rematch out on the West Coast,but he said this time Joe Louis was looking for the kill from the start. He wasn't putting up with wanting to "box" anybody.
"He was after me good and hard.I tried to stay away,but he nailed me with the right and ended it with his hook.I was out cold,"he said shaking his head.
"Joe Louis was the hardest puncher I ever faced. He might have been the hardest puncher of all time,"he said nodding his head.
Then he added that Louis threw his right like Bob Feller. I didn't follow up on his explanation.It didn't make sense to me to compare Louis's right hand with a baseball pitcher's delivery to the plate. Well ,he left us to conitnue our chess game.I never saw Lee Ramage again.


Many years later with the advent of the computer and the internet,I found myself diving into all fights that cropped up on YouTube. Browsing into Joe Louis's menu.it hit me all of a sudden about what Lee Ramage was trying to convey. I was watching the second Louis/Buddy Baer fight. Joe didn't want to monkey around with Buddy this time(Louis always performed better in the rematches).Louis stepped inside Baer's long reach and hammered the big guy with right hands, from over the top or 3/4's,that exemplified Lee Ramage's comparison. They always talk about Louis's punches traveling "six inches." Often they did,but what struck me watching Louis's knockout of Baer was that Louis would get his whole body,from his heals up through the back of his head,behind the right hand. During the total motion of the punch there was very little separate movement of his arms.Once he extended the right hand,all his body became rigid. The delivery had all of his 200 pounds into the punch. He followed through lifting his right foot just like a baseball pitcher does when he hurls a fastball to the catcher. I've never seen a right hand like Joe Louis's.

Now we know that Jack Blackburn was Joe's trainer.I wonder if the two ever went to a Cleveland Indians game when Bob Feller was on the mound?



Lee Ramage



Joe Louis's destruction of Lee Ramage. Louis's left was just as potent as you can see. I bet if Lee Ramage would have described the left he might have said "Sandy Koufax."

[dagosd2000]

The Apache Kid

Jerry said he was from Arizona.He said he was born on an Indian reservation,but that his parents weren't Indians. He was an only childJerry said his parents ran a general store on the reservation.They sold everything from food to clothes to the Indians.They sold tools and lumber.They sold a lot of building materials.The Indians,said Jerry,were always making things.The government gave them money,but they didn't want to spend any of the money buying things when they could make it themselves. The only thing they couldn't sell to the Indians was liquor. He said when the Indians got to drinking they became uncontrollable.Jerry said that Indians had some sort of genetic allergy to alcohol that made them act crazy. Jerry grew up with the other Indian kids and went to school with them.It was in the gym on the reservation that Jerry took up boxing.

Jerry learned boxing from a government Indian Affairs teacher who also was the teacher at the one room schoolhouse. The teacher was like a dad to Jerry. When Jerry wasn't in school or in the gym,he was working at his parents' store. He was in the stockroom mostly.When he was out front he was restocking the shelves Jerry liked school well enough. He wished he could go to a regular public school in Flagstaff,but his parents needed him around to help in the store. When he finished up with the 12th grade,he told his parents he was going to strike it out on his own. They put up a futile protest. I think in the back of their minds they knew that the best thing for Jerry was to get off the reservation.


Jerry joined the Navy , served his hitch, and then got his discharge in San Diego. That's where I met up with him. It was at the Coliseum that I saw him working out with the other fighters. The "other" fighters being the group Burke Emory was training in the afternoons. Burke had around ten or fifteen guys ,depending on the weather,that came in trying to learn what Burke would throw at them .It was sink or swim with Burke. He knew a lot of stuff. He had fought for years mostly in Canada.For a time he was the Canadian light heavyweight champion. He was very proud of that. Jerry showed a lot of determination to earn respect with Burke. He obeyed Burke to the letter even though Burke at times didn't show a lot of patience.


Jerry was somewhere between a lightweight and I'd say a junior welterweight. He had short cropped blonde hair,but not a strand of hair of any hue on his scrawny chest and arms. His pallid face never revealed much of a demeanor one way or another. His pale blue eyes were probably his foremost feature. Narrow lips and a tiny nose exemplified a diminutive presence. He wanted so badly to become a fighter,that in physical appearance alone it didn't seem he had a chance. His coordination and reflexes looked like they were in the growing stage still. When he hit the heavy bag he never made it pop.

I knew Jerry a little. He was the quiet type that didn't offer too many opinions. He followed Burke around and tried as hard as he could to fulfill Burke's expectations.After a while, Burke felt Jerry was ready to fight in some amateur bouts in town. I didn't see any of his fights,but Burke said after a few months that it was time to put Jerry in with the pros.

Jerry's first pro bout was the first fight on the undercard at the Coliseum. Burke had one of his fighters in all the matches.When I looked at the program.I didn't see Jerry's name. All I saw was some guy called "The Apache Kid" was going to fight some Mexican kid with the name of Gonzalez or Rodriguez or something like that. Awaiting the first bout,I saw Jerry leave the locker room with a white towel over his shoulders , and Burke at his hip. Shortly after, the Mexican kid followed suit. They both got in the ring with their handlers and I don't think anyone said a word. It was like they wanted to get it over with.Fred Lewis, the ring announcer ,introduced the contestants to the small house to faint applause. The boys got their instructions from local ref Frank Rustich,then went back to their corners waiting for the bell.

The fight was scheduled for 4 rounds,but after what transpired in the opening frame,the crowd wanted to see Rustich step in and call it a "no contest." I don't know if both boys were nervous or scared ,but they sure didn't want to engage the other . If one looked like he wanted to start something,the other would back off.The most contact made were the numerous needless clichés. When Rustich tried to separate the two was when they exhibited their strongest efforts. And that was to stay holding on to each other. The crowd tried to boo,hiss,and whistle;but even those gestures were made without much malice. After the final bell both boys embraced each other with more exertion than what they displayed in the ring. It took about a minute for Fred Lewis to announce the winner.Somehow the judges thought the Mexican kid won. Those kind of fights are the hardest to judge. It's like deciding if what color is whiter:egg shell white or chalk white.


I didn't frequent the Coliseum for a few weeks. When I did show up again,I asked Burke about Jerry.
"Oh he left town a week ago.Said he was going back to Arizona and try to pick up a few fights.So I let him go."
I was about to walk away when something flashed in my mind.
"Hey Burke. I meant to ask you. Where did Jerry come up with that name "The Apache Kid"?
"Well we didn't want to use his last name."
"What is his last name? I never knew it."
"Crapper. His name is Jerry Crapper."
"So you said Jerry went back to Arizona to try to pick up a few fights."


Outside the ol' Coliseum today.The lights are no more,abandoned,just a shell. Bums,broken wine bottles,and the smell of urine leave a false footprint

[dagosd2000]

The Creeper

There was a time when boxing and wrestling kind of went hand in hand.For example,in San Diego the fights at the Coliseum were held on Tuesday nights and the wrestlers showed their stuff on Friday nights. The promoters figured that mostly adults went in for the boxing matches. A lot of the kids liked wrestling, so the wrestling matches were put on the Friday night docket.During the week the fighters would come in to train at the Coliseum in the early afternoon,then the wrestlers would take over after the fighters finished up.

The wrestlers used to crack me up. The matches always have a "good guy" against a "bad guy", or when it's a tag team match .a duo of two "good guys" against a pair that everyone can yell every expletive they have in their vocabulary. But what was funny,though not surprising,is when the wrestlers left the locker room to rehearse their routines,I would often see the "good guys" walking side by side with the "bad guys" like they were neighborhood chums.


In San Diego,Mr. Moto was a "good guy". The following night in LA at The Olympic Auditorium ,Mr. Moto was more hated than Togo. I liked the wrestlers as much as I did the fighters.It seemed like standard dress for the grapplers was a Hawaiian shirt and a sport coat unbuttoned and slip on shoes.. They reminded me of ex vaudeville characters or maybe I saw them do a little slapstick at Bob Johnston's local B House,The Hollywood Theater.


In the Southland, because of its proximity to the movie studios,the casting agents would often frequent the Olympic when these big fellas wearing the wrestling togs would get all sweaty rolling around with each other.(I knew a lot of old ladies that really got off watching those guys wrestle,especially when one of them got the other guy in a head scissors)Maybe because wrestling is an act(I've heard fighters refer to it as "Hollywood Wrestling)there has been and still is a rank and file list of wrestlers who were not just mentioned in the film credits,but were the leading stars in the movies.The only memorable fighter who turned actor in my mind was "Slapsie" Maxie Rosenbloom. Lou Costello put Max Baer in some of his 1950's half hour comedy shorts. Canada Lee fought in the 20's. After he called it quits,he found a niche in movies. He was pretty good.

I liked ",Mike Mazurky,and Henry "Bomber " Kulky. These guys looked like wrestlers to me. They weren't what you'd call fashion plates. They looked like they descended from the grizzly bear family. But my favorite scary guy was Rondo Hatton.Because of a condition he developed called agromegaly( thought to be caused by him being exposed to mustard gas in the First World War)Hatton's face grew into grotesque proportions.Hollywood put him in a lot of scary movies because he WAS a scary looking guy.He didn't have to use a makeup artist to gain affect.He got the moniker"The Ugliest Man In Hollywood."

I love the old Sherlock Holmes movies with Basil Rathbone.He was always smarter than everyone else. No one could unnerve him. But in the flick,The Pearl of Death,Hatton plays the part of The Creeper. The Creeper is the hitman for a diabolical robber who likes to steal things from people who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. The victims bodies' are crushed up like mill flour. Holmes finally discovers what's been going on utilizing his geometrical logic,However,when Holmes is about to have Inspector LaStroud put th cuffs on the brains of the outfit,The Creeper stumbles in to turn Sherlock into a hand made tortilla. The always composed Holmes,when seeing the Creeper stalking towards him,panics!But his lack of nerve is only momentary. Holmes convinces The Creeper that his boss is only exploiting his brute strength. The Creeper might be ugly,but he ain't dumb.He turns on his boss and pulverizes him

I guess I don't know too much about today's wrestling stars of the screen. I don't even know if Rondo Hatton ever wrestled for a living. Anyway,it would have been an act. You know,Hollywood Wrestling. But in that movie with Sherlock Holmes,he didn't need to do any acting to scare the hell out of me.



Rondo Hatton

[chrisjs1985]

The Fighter That Didn't Want The Championship,Maybe

The posters had been talking about the Jewish fighters. Well,there haven't been any in a long time. At least any good ones that I can remember.Before World War II ,when times were a lot tougher,there were some pretty good Jewish fighters:the Attells,Lew Tendler,Bummy Davis,Mushy Callahan,Barney Ross, Slapsie Maxie Rosenbloom to name a few. The one that stands out above the others was Benny Leonard who was the lightweight champ. Ask any old timers of the Hebrew faith and to a man they'll tell you Benny Leonard was the best lightweight to have ever stepped inside the ring. He had at least a hundred fights. He fought 'em all. In his prime(that lasted almost his entire career except for his forced comeback)he was practically unbeatable.


When I was a kid and began to follow boxing the only pugilistic publication on the newsstands was Ring Magazine. The periodical's headquarters were in New York City. The founder,owner,and chief editor was the self congratulatory Nat Fleischer. He stood about 5 foot and change and his loquacious rhetoric comprised most of the words between the covers. At one time Fleischer's rankings and who he considered to be the legitimate champions of the divisions, were engraved in stone. To me, his thinking was unpredictable He never renounced Ali as heavyweight champion because he felt a champion had to lose his title in the ring or announce his retirement.All the other commissions had stripped Ali of his title for not serving in the military. However,Fleischer always called him Cassius Clay,not Muhammad Ali. I guess in this case Christianity won out over The Nation of Islam.

Fleischer,I guess, had been around long enough to see all the pre and post turn of the century fighters. He always considered those dinosaurs better than what the current scene had to display He was always listing and ranking who was the best and who could have beaten who. Too bad the BoxRec forum wasn't around whe he was alive. Fleischer would have made guys like granberry,Il Duce,and kalan bow down at his knees.

When he talked about and ranked the greatest lightweights,he differed from his Jewish opiners and put Joe Gans at number one,followed by Benny Leonard. But when Fleischer or his following discussed Leonard's fight with Jack Britton,for the welterweight championship,it was a lead pipe cinch that Benny lost purposely on a foul because "he didn't want the welterweight championship."No explanation for that statement.Just that Benny "didn't want" to win that night. I grew up thinking that only because that's all I had read about that fight.And all I learned about that fight came from the lips of Nat Fleischer. But it never made sense to me. Why would Leonard sign for the fight,train,and then go into the tank?

Leonard and Britton had fought twice before.Benny got the newspapers' votes, Both were considered excellent boxers. There's nothing to see on film of Britton. There's a short clip of Leonard's fight with Lew Tendler. Can't tell too much from that. The outcome of their title fight was sudden and confusing. They say Benny hit Britton in the groin,Jackgoing down to his knees. This happened in the 13th frame.Before the referee could figure if it was low or begin a count ,Leonard stood over Jack and punched him in the head. Now it was a no brainer.Benny was disqualified.

Hearing it from The Ring,Benny was having his way with Britton.. Benny just "didn't ' want to win.So he fouled Jack.. He could have bitten off Jack's ear,but instead gave him a whack when he was down. I was as perplexed about the result as the crazy bugs who saw the fight in the Bronx.


A few years ago I logged on to a site (I can't recall the name right now)that had one of the New York papers round by round description of that fight. The writer at ringside was flabbergasted by Leonard's sluggishness. Benny was having trouble putting anything together. After 12,this scribe had Benny trailing by three rounds. All Jack had to do is stay on his feet. to keep his crown. Instead, he held onto his title while he was on the canvas. Everyone was shocked. Did Jack get fouled? He said later he wasn't.Leonard was pretty much silent on the matter. Maybe the gamblers had put this one together. Maybe Benny had a bet on Jack. Maybe Nat Fleischer just didn't want to admit that the "second best" lightweight of all time knew he was getting beat and took the easy way out.



Benny Leonard

I recently bought a book on Leonard which was originally written by Fleischer called "Leonard the magnificent in addition to that book written by Mike Silver, "Stars of the ring" on Jewish boxing history. Leonard is probably my favorite fighter of that era of which there's limited footage and unfortunately I've never really seen a big text on him or real feature length documentary. I think it's fair to say outside of the heavyweight division Leonard was the biggest thing in the sport at that point?

I have Leonard as my choice as #1 all-time at lightweight Joe Gans at #2 and it may surprise some but I have Carlos Ortiz in the #3 spot just ahead of Roberto Duran. Simply put they just had a more challenging playing field at that weight class and weren't any less dominant.

[dagosd2000]

The Prizefighter And The Ladies

I forgot to mention yesterday that Max Baer's acting career also included a couple of movies where he played the part of a fighter:The Prizefighter And The Lady,and the Harder They Fall. In the Budd Shulberg story The Harder They Fall,Baer plays the part of the mean and nasty heavyweight champ,Buddy Brennan, who's waiting for the unsuspecting and undefeated stiff from Argentina,Toro Moreno,acted by Mike Lane to get in the ring with him. The Shulberg script is an allegory of Primo Carnera's life as a pug. Humphrey Bogart is brought along as a sports writer(Eddie Willis)who's in hock with everybody in town to write exemplary reports of Toro's whirlwind string of KO's that are in bouts mostly west of the Mississippi River.. However,what is kept in the dark is that this undefeated streak was accomplished against a bunch of tomato cans in places were the number one industry is growing the fruit(remember the tomato is a fruit, not a vegetable). To insure these victories Toro's crooked manager,Mike Benko(Rod Steiger),has everything pre arranged so that Toro gets his hand raised at the finale of every match. Toro and his trainer (who looks like a Leon See clone) are the only ones who are fooled by this scam. Finally,the build up leads to the championship fight with Buddy Brennan. But this one is on the level.To make a long story short(and you probably know the story anyway)Buddy mops the floor with Toro. But this piece is about Max Baer,and the point I want to make is in the movie.where he's playing the heavyweight champ,Max looks horrible.I mean his body is flabby and his skin is old.His face sags with jowls and lined in wrinkles.Joe Wolcott, who plays a part in the film as one of Toro's "trainers", probably would have looked more convincing in the ring with his shirt off than Max. The movie was made in 1956.Baer would drop dead from a heart attack three years later.


In 1959,the year Baer died,I was with my parents at The Del Mar Hotel that was about a mile south of the Del Mar Racetrack and block from the waterfront. The hotel exuded an elegant manner . The hotel wasn't a big opulent structure that you'd see in Las Vegas for example. A cream colored stucco,thatched roof structure with a spacious lawn with palm trees adorning the outside.A prim garden bordered the fresh air patio.An open bar and restaurant catered to the public,mostly guests at the hotel to savor the racing season. A lot of Hollywood personalities and well known athletes could be seen relaxing in the patio enjoying the good life. Lucy and Desi had a beachfront manor in front of the racetrack. Bing Crosby,Jimmy Durante,and Pat O'Brian were no strangers in town. Somewhere in the back of the thread is my remembrances of Bud Abbott and Lou Costello. But right now I'll tell you how a 12 year old kid bumped into Max Baer. he was at a table with his wife and son Max Jr. I knew who he was right away. I'd seen him in the Abbott and Costello comedy bits.And by that time I was a novice authority of boxing. I remembered him in The Harder They Fall. I had ordered a hot dog from the outside snack bar and turned to go back to where my parents were seated. I wasn't looking where I was going when I turned around and smacked.what I thought at first,was one of the palm trees. But at my feet I saw some patent leathers.I looked up with my hot dog in my hand(I guess a convenient symbol for having my dick in my grip)and saw Max Baer towering over me. I was shocked. He saw that I was taken aback. His face then broke out into a wide smile.
"You Ok sonny?" he asked in a deep throaty voice grinning.

I didn't say anything.I just swerved around him hoping that I didn't make him mad. When I got back to where my parents were sitting,they were having a laugh at my expense.
"I saw you met Max Baer,"snickered my father.
"He wasn't mad."I said apologetically.
I could see my mother looking still at Max Baer.
"Joey,"she said to my father."Doesn't he look terrible?"
It surprised me that she brought that up,but she was right. Max was very overweight ,smoking a cigarette,and had a whiskey glass in his hand. When he got back to his table,which was near ours,I could hear him heaving when he breathed.He sat there with his family having the time of his life. Shortly, his table drew a crowd of fans that wanted to share in his good natured presence. Before too long,a party broke out.


Max Baer's appearance is what impacted me that day. I also remembered Max Baer in that movie,The Prizefighter And The Lady.That movie debuted just before he fought Carnera. I thought he was pretty good in that part:a cocky overgrown man/child that took up prizefighting because he thought he could lick the world and to impress his girlfriend Myrna Loy. She becomes so smitten with his boyish charm that she abandons her sugar daddy to run off with Max and get hitched. Well ,Max was a good fit for his role. He can't stay away from the dames and I don't think the director had to do much coaching to exemplify what he meant by being a two timer. Carnera is in the movie. He's the champ that's in the Max's crosshairs. It was written that Max would beat Primo at the end of the movie to win the title,but Carnera and his manager (the real Leon See) argued that the fight be called a "draw."


Comparing the two movies that were spaced 22 years apart is a bittersweet study. To see Max's frame in 1934 to what his body morphed into in 1956 leaves you shaking your head. Now,I know in 20 years(if you count that time from age 35) the human torso sags south.Skin tone loses luster.Teeth start falling out.Hair retreats from the forehead. The internal organs(sans cutting open the skin for examination) start to harden. But in Max's case he accelerated the process by living a life of wine ,women,and song.No one could tell him anything. In the end he just exploded. But you can't say he didn't live life full measure. I heard someone say when Max dropped dead that he had abused his body. That's why he didn't make it to 50. I bet the guy that said that wished he could have had just half the women Max rolled around in the sack with in a week.



Max Baer

[dagosd2000]

Chris

Many years ago (I believe in 1972)I saw Curt Gowdy and Jose Torres rank their all time greatest lightweights.. Gowdy selected Benny Leonard. Torres picked hos compadre ,Carlos Ortiz.



Carlos Ortiz at the WBHOF banquet 2010. He came out to the coast with his wife and Gaspar Ortega with his wife. They live in New York City.

[dagosd2000]

Someone To Have In Your Corner

I wonder what would happen to some of these fighters if they hadn't undertaken boxing as a means to pay the rent. I used to work with an old timer who coached at Notre Dame under Ara Parseghian and then later he was Vince Lombardi's backfield coach when Lombardi took over the head job with the Washington Redskins. I was on staff with him at Clairemont High School in San Diego. The crusty old fart's name was George Dickson.He had a shiny copper bald head , a grizzled face to go along with his gruff manner,and a voice that could ground nails.. Dickson was helping out the head coach,Nate Wright,who was also on staff teaching. Nate Wright had made a solid reputation in the NFL with the Minnesota Vikings. The other coaches,like Dickson, were NFL products:Dan Audick(49ers) and Monte Jackson(Raiders).I was the only coach with only high school coaching experience. What struck me about this group was that their football vision was myopic. They knew all about the positions they played on the old gridiron,but couldn't see the entire playing field, so to speak. I thought it would be a good learning experience to listen to what these guys had to say,but half the time they would get stumped if the opposition came up with something we hadn't prepared for. There were more than a few times they came to me to make an adjustment.Anyway,George Dickson showed me more sarcasm than football knowledge.
"Look how they've got the girls playing with the boys,"he'd gripe as he watched the P.E. classes on the recreation fields. "Hell,I can't tell the girls from the boys anymore."
Then one afternoon he offered his 2 cents about fighters
"Christ,if fighters didn't fight they'd all have syphilis or wind up in jail."
A real deep thinker this George Dickson. But in a way, I knew what he was trying to articulate. Listen to a fighter's back round before he fought for pay wearing boxing gloves instead of brass knuckles,and you can get a gist of a life that had two strikes against it from a very early age. Boxing prevented him from going back to the dugout..

A guy could fight for 20 years and when it's all over and done with, it all seemed like 20 minutes. A blur of exhilaration,a ride in a barrel going over Niagara Falls. In one way or another that barrel splits open and he either drowns or comes up swimming. Either way the flight has more G force than a trip to the moon. If he comes out of it with his money and his marbles,he's got to think can it be attributed to good fortune or was there someone with good intentions looking out for him. If he had a manager who treated him as surrogate son,the odds of him beating the count are on his side.

But the fighter's most paramount figure in his life is a noble wife. If he ain't stupid enough to fritter her away for some gold digger with fake boobs and a phony persona,he'll become reborn and give thanks to the Lord,and most of all to his wife who stoically suffered through his indiscretions.


At another World Boxing Hall Of Fame banquet,I heard ex light heavyweight champion,Marvin Johnson,speak at the dais after accepting his induction award. For 20 minutes all he could talk about was his wife How she never left his side. How he'd fallen,but his wife was always there to help him up from the canvas.He said he wouldn't be alive if it hadn't been for her. He may have been strong in body,but she showed an indestructability that was tougher and everlasting. I mean he was crying most of the way through his speech. I bet he went home after it was over and had his wife's name inscribed on the plaque after tearing his off.


But Marvin Johnson didn't care if people saw him cry. He'd been a fighter,a world champion fighter. If you don't like it I'll make a comeback. I knew what he was saying. After he stepped down,I took a glance at my wife sitting beside me. I asked her if she had a Kleenex. I told her I had something in my eye.



A thankful Marvin Johnson

[chrisjs1985]

Chris

Many years ago (I believe in 1972)I saw Curt Gowdy and Jose Torres rank their all time greatest lightweights.. Gowdy selected Benny Leonard. Torres picked hos compadre ,Carlos Ortiz.



Carlos Ortiz at the WBHOF banquet 2010. He came out to the coast with his wife and Gaspar Ortega with his wife. They live in New York City.

I’m a big Ortiz fan. A complete fighter. I really hope to see him in Canastota when I make that trip in 2020.

[chrisjs1985]

Marvin Johnson

Such an excellent fighter and from my understanding has had a good career for himself after boxing. Those fights with Saad were two of the best ever captured on film.

[dagosd2000]

Marvin Johnson

Such an excellent fighter and from my understanding has had a good career for himself after boxing. Those fights with Saad were two of the best ever captured on film.

Chris
I'm pretty sure you'll see Ortiz. How many times did we think Saad Muhammad was not going to make it during a fightbut somehow found the resolve to come back and win? When talking about a tough childhood,he is a test case. After his mother died he was sent with his brother to live with an aunt. When he was 5,his aunt instructed his brother to get rid of him. So his brother took him to Philadelphia's Benjamin Franklin Parkway and left him on his own. The nuns took him in then,but he was in such a state of shock he couldn't talk to tell them his name. The nun's gave him the name Matthew Franklin (after the saint and the parkway).




"Yaqui " Lopez. He was no strnger to Saad Muhammad.

[dagosd2000]

Fury(and Wilder's) Heart

I saw the replay of last night's fight this morning on Youtube. The best offering was an edited version. Kevin Iole,the scribe for Yahoo sports called the fight "the greatest night for boxing in the U.S. in recent memory..." I don't think it was.It was like Fury said afterwards,"entertaining." For me the "greatest" worth in this battle was these two guys' hearts. I see the Brit forum started a thread "Fury's Heart." He definitely showed that.And so did Wilder. I haven't seen many of their fights. Fury showed a lot of heart against Klitschko.Wilder,from what I've seen of him,sometimes tires,but in the end he's resourceful. But right now with these two,I think their determination(at least Fury exhibited it last night)are their strongest qualities.

Both boys are obviously big.Tall,have the reach and the weight,but they are both very crude fighters. Maybe they needed more amateur fights.Maybe there aren't a list of eminent heavyweights that could give them a good test. But after looking at some of their bad habits in the ring,I wonder what the great and even the good heavyweights ,let's say,during the Clay/Ali era,or even the Tyson,Holyfield,Bowe,Lewis quartet would have fared against either fighter last night.

Both men stick out their chins inviting ruin.Both fighters carry their hands low. Fury pushes a lot of his punches.His jab doesn't jump in your face. Wilder not only carries his hands low,but keeps them wide from his body. Often, he just extends his jab. He's more of a "swinger type puncher".The shot he caught Fury with in the last round had a pretty wide circumference. Defensively,neither fighter move their heads much, stood face to face with each other. They looked clumsy and awkward because their footwork needs a lot of practice.If you had been away from the planet for sometime and never heard of their names before,you' could have eavesdropped on the fight and thought it was some run of the mill bout on some card in Des Moines.


Every time I see big heavyweights like Fury and Wilder,I think of the big heavyweights of a bygone era that fought for the title and failed. Joe Louis fought a few:Abe Simon, Buddy Baer.and Lou Nova. I don't see any disparity in talent with the aforementioned with what I witnessed last night. Now,is that a knock on Fury and Wilder,or does that lend credence to the three Joe Louis victims I just mentioned? I think Tyson Fury,Deontay Wilder,Abe Simon,Buddy Baer,and Lou Nova were(and are) good fighters,But last night Joe Louis would have gotten inside all their breadth and landed that six inch right or left strike on the point of their open chins and they wouldn't have known what hit them.And don't tell me because of the reach and height advantage,or the "power" in their punches they would have stopped Louis in his tracks. Louis got inside the big guys he faced,and he'd get inside Fury and Wilder too.

But I think there were a lot of heavyweights that could have beaten those two guys last night. I think Joshua could beat both of them. He's got a lot of heart too,and a little more talent. If Kevin Iole's quote about last night's fight being "the greatest in recent memory",is the Gospel,I didn't know he is only five years old.



Larry Holmes.Another heavyweight that had the skills to have won last night.

[chrisjs1985]

Marvin Johnson

Such an excellent fighter and from my understanding has had a good career for himself after boxing. Those fights with Saad were two of the best ever captured on film.

Chris
I'm pretty sure you'll see Ortiz. How many times did we think Saad Muhammad was not going to make it during a fightbut somehow found the resolve to come back and win? When talking about a tough childhood,he is a test case. After his mother died he was sent with his brother to live with an aunt. When he was 5,his aunt instructed his brother to get rid of him. So his brother took him to Philadelphia's Benjamin Franklin Parkway and left him on his own. The nuns took him in then,but he was in such a state of shock he couldn't talk to tell them his name. The nun's gave him the name Matthew Franklin (after the saint and the parkway).




"Yaqui " Lopez. He was no strnger to Saad Muhammad.

I wish there was a documentary out there on Saad (or even a movie) and a lengthy book. His story deserves it. I was sad when he passed as he wasn't old and he had a great heart. A great person in addition to being a great fighter who may just be the most entertaining fighter ever caught on film.

The (both) Johnson and (both) Lopez fights are classics that really just humble you when watching. I loved the Conteh first fight too. Conteh was a classy fighter but Saad caught up with him in a dramatic from behind (what else?) victory.

[dagosd2000]

Marvin Johnson

Such an excellent fighter and from my understanding has had a good career for himself after boxing. Those fights with Saad were two of the best ever captured on film.

Chris
I'm pretty sure you'll see Ortiz. How many times did we think Saad Muhammad was not going to make it during a fightbut somehow found the resolve to come back and win? When talking about a tough childhood,he is a test case. After his mother died he was sent with his brother to live with an aunt. When he was 5,his aunt instructed his brother to get rid of him. So his brother took him to Philadelphia's Benjamin Franklin Parkway and left him on his own. The nuns took him in then,but he was in such a state of shock he couldn't talk to tell them his name. The nun's gave him the name Matthew Franklin (after the saint and the parkway).




"Yaqui " Lopez. He was no strnger to Saad Muhammad.

I wish there was a documentary out there on Saad (or even a movie) and a lengthy book. His story deserves it. I was sad when he passed as he wasn't old and he had a great heart. A great person in addition to being a great fighter who may just be the most entertaining fighter ever caught on film.

The (both) Johnson and (both) Lopez fights are classics that really just humble you when watching. I loved the Conteh first fight too. Conteh was a classy fighter but Saad caught up with him in a dramatic from behind (what else?) victory.

Chris
Saad Muhammad's story would be a no brainer,but in this day and age if your name isn't Ali,Tyson,or LeBron there would be very little interest. Millenials don't retain much that went on yesterday let alone 30 years ago.You could write the millionth redudency about the life of Ali(and don't get me wrong it's not a knock on superstars like him) or pen a poignant story on the life of Saad Muhammad and you'd probably have to publish it yourself because no one has ever heard of him outside the boxing community. Today,it's all wind,smoke,and hype. You can sell the public dog crap if you know how to market it,and let me tell you Madison Avenue can shape a society's culture into herd of cattle and make everyone believe they are individualists.

[chrisjs1985]

Fury(and Wilder's) Heart

I saw the replay of last night's fight this morning on Youtube. The best offering was an edited version. Kevin Iole,the scribe for Yahoo sports called the fight "the greatest night for boxing in the U.S. in recent memory..." I don't think it was.It was like Fury said afterwards,"entertaining." For me the "greatest" worth in this battle was these two guys' hearts. I see the Brit forum started a thread "Fury's Heart." He definitely showed that.And so did Wilder. I haven't seen many of their fights. Fury showed a lot of heart against Klitschko.Wilder,from what I've seen of him,sometimes tires,but in the end he's resourceful. But right now with these two,I think their determination(at least Fury exhibited it last night)are their strongest qualities.

Both boys are obviously big.Tall,have the reach and the weight,but they are both very crude fighters. Maybe they needed more amateur fights.Maybe there aren't a list of eminent heavyweights that could give them a good test. But after looking at some of their bad habits in the ring,I wonder what the great and even the good heavyweights ,let's say,during the Clay/Ali era,or even the Tyson,Holyfield,Bowe,Lewis quartet would have fared against either fighter last night.

Both men stick out their chins inviting ruin.Both fighters carry their hands low. Fury pushes a lot of his punches.His jab doesn't jump in your face. Wilder not only carries his hands low,but keeps them wide from his body. Often, he just extends his jab. He's more of a "swinger type puncher".The shot he caught Fury with in the last round had a pretty wide circumference. Defensively,neither fighter move their heads much, stood face to face with each other. They looked clumsy and awkward because their footwork needs a lot of practice.If you had been away from the planet for sometime and never heard of their names before,you' could have eavesdropped on the fight and thought it was some run of the mill bout on some card in Des Moines.


Every time I see big heavyweights like Fury and Wilder,I think of the big heavyweights of a bygone era that fought for the title and failed. Joe Louis fought a few:Abe Simon, Buddy Baer.and Lou Nova. I don't see any disparity in talent with the aforementioned with what I witnessed last night. Now,is that a knock on Fury and Wilder,or does that lend credence to the three Joe Louis victims I just mentioned? I think Tyson Fury,Deontay Wilder,Abe Simon,Buddy Baer,and Lou Nova were(and are) good fighters,But last night Joe Louis would have gotten inside all their breadth and landed that six inch right or left strike on the point of their open chins and they wouldn't have known what hit them.And don't tell me because of the reach and height advantage,or the "power" in their punches they would have stopped Louis in his tracks. Louis got inside the big guys he faced,and he'd get inside Fury and Wilder too.

But I think there were a lot of heavyweights that could have beaten those two guys last night. I think Joshua could beat both of them. He's got a lot of heart too,and a little more talent. If Kevin Iole's quote about last night's fight being "the greatest in recent memory",is the Gospel,I didn't know he is only five years old.



Larry Holmes.Another heavyweight that had the skills to have won last night.

In the last 18 months or so there's been some very good heavyweight scraps. Joshua-Klitshcko, Wilder-Ortiz, Fury-Wilder, Whyte-Chisora and Whyte-Parker. I don't think the talent is near what it was in the two golden ages of heavyweight boxing (70's & 90's) but I've sort of just embraced it for what it is. Some of these guys are great characters with big fan bases and they bring entertaining enough fights.

I personally never really liked Fury. He's a bit too outspoken for me but he is funny and I gained a lot of admiration for him coming back from a really dark place to come over and really outclass Wilder and consider myself a fan of his now. He's won me over.

I felt Joshua was the pick of the bunch but now I side with Tyson as the man to beat. He has the style and the mental strength. Joshua is probably the one that will improve most but I doubt he'll have Fury's natural poise, stamina and movement and that's a problem.

[dagosd2000]

The Whitewash

Remember reading Mark Twain's Tom Sawyer when Tom's Aunt Polly puts her foot down making her nephew whitewash the fence because he was behaving like the imp that was the little engine inside his head?But Tom had other plans..He wanted to be with his frivolous friends meandering through the afternoon acting on impulse and leaving no regrets. He thought at first he might be able to induce a passerby to exchange positions by offering the trinkets he had brought with him from his room.But after examining his merchandise he realized that his little knick knacks didn't have enough juice to be very persuasive to hand his bucket and brush over to someone else. However,Tom's abhorrence for work and his devilish creativeness combined to formulate a scheme so he could run off to his dreamland.

Tom's plan would be to show anyone who came across his path that he was totally immersed with sloshing paint on the frayed timber,that he was so dedicated to having a finished product that could be juried into an art museum. First victim to saunter up to the gate was Tom's chum,Ben Rogers. Ben had brought along a shiny red apple that he held in his hand. However ,Tom didn't pay Ben any notice. Tom's joy was passionately brushing up and down, with brush in his sweaty hand ,the rails with ample amounts of whitewash. Tom told Ben not be a nuisance. Whitewashing the fence was an honor bestowed on him so he could display to the world his innermost qualities in taking pride in doing a damn good job. Not everyone gets a chance to whitewash a fence. It was his lucky day.Tom had just cast out his line . Ben began to waver. He wanted to know if he could join the fun. Ben was nibbling at the bait,now it was time to set the hook.


Tom told Ben he was out of luck. There was only one brush to go along with his pail of paint. Ben offered his apple if Tom would turn the chore over to him. He had Ben hook,line,and sinker. Well,if Ben wanted to take up the task,why not?Tom certainly didn't want to let a friend down.What are friends for? Ben started to swab with vigor. But after a short time,fatigue began to overwhelm his zeal. Ben said that he had had enough fun. Tom took the last bite out of the apple and told Ben that they were still pals.Ben exited the site thinking that whitewashing wasn't what Tom had cracked it up to be.But there would be more acquaintances strolling by. Before too long the fence was painted fresh and Tom could hop on that steamboat to catch up with the gang.In the mean time everyone that wanted to know what was gong on with Tom Sawyer's endeavor was minus something in his pocket and had the "honor" of whitewashing that fence.


Now wasn't that a nice story? What the hell does it have to do with boxing? Well,yesterday I was putting in my two cents about the big heavyweight fight. Reading the articles and listening to the panels ESPN,they made it sound like it was the second coming of Moore/Durelle I. Like I said,I give Fury and Wilder credit for letting it all hang out.But if you didn't know who those two were,it would have been hard to convince someone that both are world heavyweight champions within their respected boxing organizations. There's also another one who wears a belt.Anthony Joshua. I'm sure sometime next year the dust will settle and the cream will rise to the top. There'll be all the pandemonium leading up to this round robin. The reporters will smugly predict the outcomes . The sparks will fly.Anger levels will soar. Everyone who gets to put a finger in the pie will make millions.Pay Per View proceeds will reach the stratosphere. The post fight analysis will last for months. The Box Rec forums (and sites similar)will choke with expertise opinions. Some of the posters will take things too personally though and have to sit in the corner for a while.


I think it's all great,but I don't get too worked about anything anymore unless it's something like my granddaughter graduating from college,and THAT'S something personal that matters for me. While these three heavyweights settle the issue,I'll be watching on Youtube Archie Moore come off the deck four times in the opening frame in Montreal or reading The Adventures Of Tom Sawyer I was never into whitewashing a fence.




Archie Moore

[dagosd2000]

d

[dagosd2000]

Goodrich On Main

Murray Goodrich owned one of those, what they called ,"Army Surplus Stores" on Main Street in San Diego. His facility was an old quonset hut.They had things like gas masks,canteens,compasses,K Bar knives.flight jackets-all the things that had been used by G.I.'s during World War II and the Korean Wars. Most of the stuff seemed pretty junky and of little use.The service branches were giving that stuff away.All Murray Goodrich had to do is haul it out the door. But some things like those Air Corps flight jackets could sell for pretty shiny penny on Ebay today. Everything was displayed on large wooden tables or strewn on the concrete floor. My father used to like to go inside "Goodrich On Main" not so much to buy anything,but to reminisce about his time in the Marine Corps in WW II. I think I remember him buying a compass once,but most of the time I'd walk with him and he'd explain what all these curious things were and their purposes. He was like one of those docents you see in a museum or an art gallery. We have an old retired aircraft carrier,the USS Midway,docked at the foot of Broadway .The Midway is now a museum..It gets its money from the private sector and I think the city kicks in some dough to keep the old girl from winding up in the scrap yard. But I don't think there's much worry about The Midway being torpedoed because of lacking funds. It gets a pretty good workout from the tourists,the locals,and school tour groups. They have plenty of docents,mostly retired Navy servicemen,who are willing to explain all the components from the bulk heads to the various fight craft above and below deck all wrapped in the ship's history. But my father would have never been a docent on the Midway because he was a Marine, and the only jar heads aboard the Midway supervised the brig.

I don't know if Murray Goodrich was ever in the service. He was an old guy with a balding head,a toothy smile,and horn rimmed glasses resting on his sizeable nose. He was always nervously walking around his store.I don't know why he was so antsy. Maybe he thought there were some people that would walk out with something without paying,All I know was that he was a bundle of nerves. My father had an office on Logan Avenue near Goodrich's store. At that time during the 50's the neighborhood was called Logan Heights. It was the embodiment of San Diego's black community. Today.the neighborhood is comprised mostly of Mexicans and Chicanos. So the city fathers renamed the area "Barrio Logan." There isn't a predominantly black neighborhood in San Diego anymore.

Archie Moore was the light heavyweight champion at that time. Moore lived in the district named Southeast San Diego. It's still called that today. Southeast is located east of Barrio Logan about a couple of miles away. The 15 Freeway cuts through Southeast today halving the region. Driving west on the 15 you can still see Archie Moore's old house from the right lane. The old brick structure with the swimming pool shaped like a boxing glove stands out like a beacon that reminds the old school of a period when Archie Moore was the most well known sports figure around. Ted Williams was from San Diego but he never visited his old burg when he was with the Red Sox. Never came out to see his mother during the off season-said she was all wrapped up in her Salvation Army work .Williams was a surly guy. He was a prick with reporters and the fans. My father loved him though because he was a Marine. Ted Williams old wood framed house in Normal Heights is still there.It's a dinky inconspicuous box. It was his home growing up. People still live in that cracker box. I wonder if they know that's where Ted Williams grewup. I wonder if they even know who Ted Williams was.He was a star baseball player at Hoover High School during the early 30's. Hundreds of people must pass that house every day oblivious that the modern age's best greatest hitter called that edifice" home."


But when Archie Moore beat Joey Maxim, after finally getting his long awaited deserved shot,he didn't pull up roots and transplant himself in bigger garden. No,he built his big brick house with the Everlast swimming pool , married for a fifth try,and hunkered down for good with his family in sunny San Diego.He was a high profile spirit exuding his warmth and affability wherever he went
-C&M Meats to buy his choice cuts for his barbeque fests he'd have on his block parties,seated in the stands to watch his son Archie Jr. play football at the local community college,riding a horse in The Martin Luther King Jr. Parade at Lincoln High School,instructing the kids at his Any Boy Can Club in the skills of boxing, and more important to him,the skills of life.He was a philosopher,movie and television personality,a musician,historian,a friend,a guy you couldn't bamboozle and wouldn't want to try to.If there was a local award ceremony honoring a school teacher or a high school coach,he'd be seated in the audience.He was there to help a friend or maybe someone who wasn't a fan of boxing and didn't know Archie Moore from Garry Moore,but if assistance was warranted Archie was there to reach out.

Once they had one of Archie Moore's title defenses on the TV screen. I pretty sure it was the fight at the Olympic Auditorium against Tony Anthony. Archie climbed through the ring ropes wearing this long white sequined robe. As he turned his back to the camera,there it was for all the country to see in elongated script."Murray Goodrich's On Main." Me and my father got a rise out of that one.
"Wouldn't you know Murray could get Moore to wear his robe so he could get free advertising.,"laughed my father.
"I wonder if we'll see it later in his surplus srore?"I remarked.



Archie Moore's old place in Southeast San Diego today. It's "swingers" hangout.

[dagosd2000]

d

[dagosd2000]

Sugar Rush

Correct me if I'm wrong about this,but I think the first fighter to adopt Ray Robinson's,nickname "Sugar",was a black fighter out of Philadelphia named Garnet Hart. I watched him fight on TV a lot during the 50's. He was pretty slick,but not too cute,and he had a good punch.He was in a pretty good mix of welterweights at that time:Ralph Dupas,"Tombstone" Smith,Gil Turner,Isaac Logart. He beat those guys. His namesake ,THEE Sugar Ray, was then a middleweight and would stay there. Carmen Basilio would move up to fight him for the 160 title. Kid Gavilan was at the end of his career. The welters were fighting it out to see who would sit on top.Don Jordan was wearing the crown,but it wobbled on his head.He was ripe prey for a bunch of hungry young lions. "Sugar" Hart was one of the cats. To name some of the other felines:Denny Moyer,Emile Griffith,Charley Scott,Luis Rodriguez,and Benny Paret.

I saw on the tube Hart win a fast paced decision against Isaac Logart. It looked like he might be close to getting his shot. After his win over Logart,Ring Magazine ran a story about him.The article alluded that Garnet "Sugar" Hart could become another Ray Robinson kind of glucose. They had Hart paired side by side with Robinson. The fighting styles were similar,They were both flashy,good looking.They took a few pictures of them together comparing their body types. A rear shot of their backs and shoulders.legs,chest widths,even laying out their arms showing how much their fists look similar. Even how much their smiles looked alike. After awhile I thought maybe they were cousins.But Hold on! A guy with 32 fights behind him,three of those were losses,two by KO.One of those stoppages by a fella' by the name of Fred Terry in the first round. Nat Fleischer called his monthly "The Bible Of Boxing",but to try to compare Garnet Hart to Ray Robinson,who I'm sure Garnet was a nice fellow,was grounds for blasphemy.


Often when there is an early assessment filled with hype,it turns out to be a bad omen.Sure enough,after the Logart fight, Hart got the sugar blues from Charley Scott, and in a slugfest,lost in an upset by KO. Hart got a chance to redeem himself in his next fight against an undefeated Luis Rodriguez.After the final bell going to the score cards was just going through the motions. Luis was still unbeaten. Hart had his back to the wall when he faced Benny Paret in Madison Square Garden. Benny had just come off two whirlwind victories over the Charley Scott,the same guy from Philly who KO'd his hometown rival Hart, who by this time wished he had another nickname. Paret won easily.The fight ended in the 6th round. Hart's last fight was relegated from MSG to St. Knicks,and again he lost.

Garnet "Sugar" Hart later became afflicted with diabetes. He lived with his mother in the house he bought for her when he was still fighting.. He had been married several times. He said that women were his downfall. He also said that if he had to do it all over again,he wouldn't change a thing. That's sounds like something that wasn't sugar coated.



The two "Sugars" from that Ring Magazine article.

[Chuck1052]

Roger, Sugar George Costner, a welterweight from Cincinnati, was active from 1940 to 1950. As a popular fighter in Chicago, he fought the likes of Sugar Ray Robinson and Jake LaMotta, being stopped by both fighters.

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

Roger, Sugar George Costner, a welterweight from Cincinnati, was active from 1940 to 1950. As a popular fighter in Chicago, he fought the likes of Sugar Ray Robinson and Jake LaMotta, being stopped by both fighters.

- Chuck Johnston

Chuck
You were right on about that! I don't know how that escaped me. When Costner fought Robinson,Robinson said to him when they touched gloves,"this fight is only going to last one round. I'm the only fighter with the name of Sugar." After the KO in the first,Robinson added insult to injury,"Now go out and earn yourself the name."

[scartissue]

I remember the story on George 'Sugar' Costner and the fact that Ray Robinson didn't take too kindly to his nickname being plagiarized. Subsequent matches saw Ray KO George twice in the first round, which put that to bed. But it was interesting what Rog brought up about Sugar Hart buying his mom a house. I recalled the story of George Costner also buying his mom a house when he was making the bucks, but ended up with eye damage after getting butted pretty bad by Chico Varona and sadly, eventually went blind. But, not to worry, at least he always had the house that he bought for his mother to fall back on once she passed. The problem with that was, he put it in her name rather than his own and she left it to her daughter. Alas, the fighter. If Costner didn't have bad luck, he'd have no luck.