BoxRec

Dan
Recalling that interview with Rodriguez in San Diego before the Gutierrez fight:all Luis wanted to talk about was how he got robbed with Griffith. The guy with the microphone was looking at him incredulously. Imagine waking up to that everyday and trying to rationalize a positive take? Every time I attend the WCBHOF ceremony,the emcee always preferences his introduction of Armando Muniz as "The uncrowned champion." I guess that's about as satisfying an explanation you can offer.
"You got robbed"
Bottom line,both those guys officially lost.

The only fight I can see where the "loser" wound up on top was that time Holyfield clocked that guy at the bell in the Olympic final and was DQ'd.


Armando Muniz appreciating some of my art. If Trump can give Jack Johnson a pardon why can't he overturn that decision in Acapulco and make Armando the champ?Take it to the Supreme Court.

scartissue wrote: ↑22 May 2019, 09:29 Rog, I watched Griffith v Rodriguez III and IV and simply put, I cannot in any way make a case for Griffith in either fight. It just seemed to me like Luis' bodywork was simply ignored. I had him the comfortable winner in both fights and agree that he does have a cause to gripe. A great fighter.

I'll find my RBR scores but I had something like

Fight I - Rodriguez by two
Fight II - Rodriguez by three
Fight III - Rodriguez by FIVE
Fight IV - Rodriguez by three

I think the third was the clearest of the four fights with the closest possible scenario being three points in my view. The thing about those fights is that it's clear Rodriguez is the better fighter. His body work is better, his jab is better and he's able to counter better. Griffith didn't really figure out how to fight him so was mainly reduced to trying to wrestle him and keep Rodriguez' hands tied up and try to win just on strength. Things Griffith was good at - use of his legs, jab, he was far behind Luis in those areas.

I noticed fight II is not on Youtube. I will probably upload that in the next few days.

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑22 May 2019, 11:12 I'll find my RBR scores but I had something like

Fight I - Rodriguez by two
Fight II - Rodriguez by three
Fight III - Rodriguez by FIVE
Fight IV - Rodriguez by three

I think the third was the clearest of the four fights with the closest possible scenario being three points in my view. The thing about those fights is that it's clear Rodriguez is the better fighter. His body work is better, his jab is better and he's able to counter better. Griffith didn't really figure out how to fight him so was mainly reduced to trying to wrestle him and keep Rodriguez' hands tied up and try to win just on strength. Things Griffith was good at - use of his legs, jab, he was far behind Luis in those areas.

I noticed fight II is not on Youtube. I will probably upload that in the next few days.

Chris,Dan,and whoever thinks that Luis gat a raw deal
Though the great Cuban fighters that escaped Castro's wrath and came either to the U.S.,Mexico,or Spain to continue their careers,there are some different cultural factors to weigh. Napoles went to Mexico and fit in right away with the Merxican macho culture. Legra first landed in Mexico,but was enticed to come to Spain by countryman Kid Tunero.Legra became a very cosmopolitan and successful figure across the pond and still is to this day. Rodriguez on the other hand made Miami his new home under the guidance of the Dundees. But because Castro was construed as an enemy of the U.S.,this perception rubbed off a little on Rodriguez. Granted,Luis just wanted to fight. For example he never joined up with the Bay Of Pigs invasion,but the American public never took to him. He wasn't a "villain" ,but there wasn't a segment of the country where he built up a following. Where would you consider his American center of popularity?I can't think of any part of the USA where he had a large backing. He was sort of a vagabond. He lost to Griffith twice in New York-that was Emile's neck of the woods. Luis also lost to him in Las Vegas where he had no fan base. He won in LA where fellow Cuban Sugar Ramos(who was amassing a big following with the Mexican fans) was on the card with Davey Moore that night. If there was any semblance of attention it was with the Mexican fans.

I think what tied Luis's hands many times was that he fought in the wrong country.

dagosd2000 wrote: ↑22 May 2019, 12:40 Chris,Dan,and whoever thinks that Luis gat a raw deal
Though the great Cuban fighters that escaped Castro's wrath and came either to the U.S.,Mexico,or Spain to continue their careers,there are some different cultural factors to weigh. Napoles went to Mexico and fit in right away with the Merxican macho culture. Legra first landed in Mexico,but was enticed to come to Spain by countryman Kid Tunero.Legra became a very cosmopolitan and successful figure across the pond and still is to this day. Rodriguez on the other hand made Miami his new home under the guidance of the Dundees. But because Castro was construed as an enemy of the U.S.,this perception rubbed off a little on Rodriguez. Granted,Luis just wanted to fight. For example he never joined up with the Bay Of Pigs invasion,but the American public never took to him. He wasn't a "villain" ,but there wasn't a segment of the country where he built up a following. Where would you consider his American center of popularity?I can't think of any part of the USA where he had a large backing. He was sort of a vagabond. He lost to Griffith twice in New York-that was Emile's neck of the woods. Luis also lost to him in Las Vegas where he had no fan base. He won in LA where fellow Cuban Sugar Ramos(who was amassing a big following with the Mexican fans) was on the card with Davey Moore that night. If there was any semblance of attention it was with the Mexican fans.

I think what tied Luis's hands many times was that he fought in the wrong country.

I think you're exactly right. He had so many fights in so many different cities and countries almost going "door to door". I asked Russel J. Peltz about the Percy Manning fight in Philadelphia and he said it was a close fight that went to the hometown guy. That was a theme with Rodriguez - it happened with Jose Gonzalez in Puerto Rico in a fight Gonzalez was way above the limit and still fought and when he fought Rondon, Rondon also didn't make weight. Of course he handily defeated all three in re-matches - Manning via KO1.

He was the right fighter but at the wrong time in America. By all accounts he was a happy go lucky guy, always smiling and not a braggadocio so I think had he settled in Mexico he'd have been just as popular as Ramos and Napoles. Probably would have been richer too.

Regarding Legra, I heard that Franco had a procession for him in Madrid after he beat Winstone for the title. Legra was a lot of fun and also a big personality. I think he got a raw deal vs. Famechon when he lost his title the first time. I spoke to Anson Wainwright at The Ring, he's the guy who does the "Best I faced" series and he told me he tried to get Legra to be a feature but it was too difficult alluding to possible health issues. I saw some photos off him from a Spanish show a year or two back plus an interview and he looked and sounded fine.

No Speakee Eengleesh


Before I drop the subject of Luis Rodriguez there's another point I want to bring up:language. When the Cuban fighters literally escaped with their lives from their homeland they only spoke Spanish. When Americans think about assimilation from migrants the common directive is "Learn English." That's probably the biggest gesture when it comes to Americanization. For the Cubans who ventured to Mexico and Spain they didn't have to worry about taking an ESL course at the local community college.

There's a picture of Doug Valiant,Florentino Fernandez,and Luis Rodriguez hanging out together at the 5th Street Gym in Miami.They're standing there smiling and looking very amiable.But I always get a sense of loneliness when I see the photo.They seem isolated,just removed from the tropical land of their compatriates. Wives and children left behind. Mothers and fathers they'd never see again.Sure,there was a recent Cuban exile community in South Florida,but they weren't exactly dancing the Cha Cha Cha with the U.S. government. They felt betrayed by JFK of not getting military support during the Bay Of Pigs invasion. The Cuban exiles were angry and wanted to go back to a Cuba where THEY would be in charge again. Our government was balking at another stab at a military takeover with Cuban exile soldiers not to mention any U.S. troops. Assimilation was on hold until Castro got kicked off the island. Well,that never happened. The Cuban community in South Florida wasn't gung ho on nurturing a hot bed of Cuban boxing.They wanted a real war,not one in side a boxing ring.

Not speaking English,a Cuban community primarily centralized in South Florida,the Cuban fighters in Miami were on call to take their bags anywhere to fight. Napoles and Ramos were building their reputations in Mexico. Legra was becoming a toast of the continent.But the Cuban fighters in the United States were passersby.While Napoles and Ramos left their marks in Mexico and Legra was wining and dining in Europe,the Cuban fighters here were a Caribbean diaspora. When they finally hung up their gloves,it was like they evaporated into thin air.

I'm sure their legacies would have been much more known if they had not wanted to migrate to a country whose primary language is English. Today it's a lot different. Latino fighters are all over the map,here and across the globe. Canelo doesn't speak English,but in a way that's a plus. In the Southland the Mexican national fighter has always been much more popular than the Mexican American Chicano fighter. Canelo could care less about quoting Shakespeare. In fact he's "more" Mexican if he doesn't learn English. it's like he hasn't sold out. Speaking Mexican is more patriotic than if he got up to the microphone and started blubbering through broken English. God help the person with a last name like "Gonzalez" who can't speak Spanish.I had a few of those Chicanos in my classes when I was teaching. The Mexican kids that spoke both tongues avoided them like the plague.

There used to be an unwritten law in Mexico that the president when speaking outside the country could only orate in Spanish.That always cracked me up because all those oligarchs went to Ivy League schools and could speak better English than the average Joe walking his dog in Central Park.

The state of California has around 35 million people living in it and half are Mexican. Well known burgs like Pomona,Salinas,Downey ,Norwalk,and Santa Ana have Hispanic populations of over 70%. I'm sure Canelo doesn't feel estranged when he takes a walk down Whittier Boulevard.

I wonder sometimes if Luis Manual Rodriguez didn't think of joining up with Mantequilla and Sugar and set the world on fire in Mexico. In time it would have been El Feo on those cards at the Olympic and at the Forum.Maybe a defense or two in Mexico City and Tijuana.He wouldn't have concerned himself about speaking English. That would have wiped the hot sauce off the enchilada.



Again.The great Luis Manual

At that time, how did Sugar Ramos' popularity compare to that of Napoles in Mexico and California? I know Ramos also got into the music scene in Mexico too. He was such a fun fighter also. I really enjoy re-visiting his fights. I think he's probably under appreciated too at least among English speaking fans - unfortunate to be around the same time as a top 5 all-time featherweight Vicente Saldivar and a top 5 all-time lightweight Carlos Ortiz, both in their primes. He got in a great shot on Ortiz in the Mexico City fight though.

I was thinking the other day about which country outside of the United States has the most impressive "Mount Rushmore" and I came up with Cuba. If you used Britain then they are in the discussion but separating the British Isles I found Wales to have a stronger one (Wilde, Driscoll, Welsh, Calzaghe) than England (Fitzsimmons, T. Lewis, L. Lewis, Berg) but the strongest three being Mexico (Chavez, Olivares, Sanchez, Marquez), Puerto Rico (Ortiz, Gomez, Benitez, Trinidad) and Cuba (Napoles, Gavilan, Rodriguez, Chocolate).

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑23 May 2019, 12:43 At that time, how did Sugar Ramos' popularity compare to that of Napoles in Mexico and California? I know Ramos also got into the music scene in Mexico too. He was such a fun fighter also. I really enjoy re-visiting his fights. I think he's probably under appreciated too at least among English speaking fans - unfortunate to be around the same time as a top 5 all-time featherweight Vicente Saldivar and a top 5 all-time lightweight Carlos Ortiz, both in their primes. He got in a great shot on Ortiz in the Mexico City fight though.

Chris
Ramos never reached the heights of popularity that Napoles did.After losing a big showdown to Mexican national,Vicente Saldivar in Mexico City,and then two losses in a row to Carlos Ortiz,Ramos took a back seat to his fellow Cuban,Napoles. But it should be said that after the Moore fight,Ramos was never himself again. That was the second fatality of an opponent of Ramos's.He went into funk. He thought about giving up boxing and even sought therapy.A happy go lucky guy,he resided in Mexico City with his music and lived comfortably .I asked Napoles when I visited him in Juarez if he kept in touch with Ramos, and he said he did.

dagosd2000 wrote: ↑23 May 2019, 12:56 Chris
Ramos never reached the heights of popularity that Napoles did.After losing a big showdown to Mexican national,Vicente Saldivar in Mexico City,and then two losses in a row to Carlos Ortiz,Ramos took a back seat to his fellow Cuban,Napoles. But it should be said that after the Moore fight,Ramos was never himself again. That was the second fatality of an opponent of Ramos's.He went into funk. He thought about giving up boxing and even sought therapy.A happy go lucky guy,he resided in Mexico City with his music and lived comfortably .I asked Napoles when I visited him in Juarez if he kept in touch with Ramos, and he said he did.

Yeah, I'd read about that in Enrique's "Hard Lather" book about another fighter dying as a result of injuries in one of his fights. Such a horrible occurrence to have happened twice. It's totally logical that took a lot out of him. I think this long weekend I am going to squeeze a few Ramos fights in. The Mando Ramos one will never get old

I wonder these days on the island if folks there have finally gotten their hands on the footage of what their countries fighters have done in the pro ranks. I remember reading an article in The Ring from one of the correspondents who'd traveled to Cuba some time ago. I think he'd visited Kid Chocolate at the end of his days and apparently people would look over their shoulder when talking about the fighters that defected like Napoles. On that documentary "Sons of Cuba" the way the children spoke about the fighters like Barthelemy like he was a traitor for leaving. Surely now with a bit more internet there's some boxing fans watching the likes of Napoles, Rodriguez, Ramos, Rigondeaux, Casamayor etc;

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑23 May 2019, 14:03 Yeah, I'd read about that in Enrique's "Hard Lather" book about another fighter dying as a result of injuries in one of his fights. Such a horrible occurrence to have happened twice. It's totally logical that took a lot out of him. I think this long weekend I am going to squeeze a few Ramos fights in. The Mando Ramos one will never get old

I wonder these days on the island if folks there have finally gotten their hands on the footage of what their countries fighters have done in the pro ranks. I remember reading an article in The Ring from one of the correspondents who'd traveled to Cuba some time ago. I think he'd visited Kid Chocolate at the end of his days and apparently people would look over their shoulder when talking about the fighters that defected like Napoles. On that documentary "Sons of Cuba" the way the children spoke about the fighters like Barthelemy like he was a traitor for leaving. Surely now with a bit more internet there's some boxing fans watching the likes of Napoles, Rodriguez, Ramos, Rigondeaux, Casamayor etc;

Chris
I saw a documentary awhile back about the famous major league pitcher,Luis Tiant. He exiled from Cuba to become one of the best pitchers to don a uniform in The Bigs.His father ,Luis Sr. was a baseball legend in Cuba. Well,Luis Jr. asked for a visa from Castro to visit his relatives in Havana. He got to go(Tiant backed Castro into a corner on that one). A U.S. film crew went along to do the documentary. When he arrived he was taken by family friends to a park in Havana were the local baseball fans would gather to talk baseball. One of his relatives went up to a group of men and said that he had brought along a very well known Cuban baseball player who played in the Major Leagues.The group all wanted to know if it was Mariano Rivera.When they were told it was Luis Tiant Jr.,they looked a little unimpressed.

When Tianr went back to his old neighborhood in Havana there were still some uncles and aunts living there. The neighborhood was run down and full of graffiti.. Trash littered the alleys and streets,storefronts were boarded up. Tiant had brought a suitcase of gifts:candy,toys,clothes. Before he said his good by's the older relatives threw themselves at his feet.
"Please take me with you."
"I'm sick and have no food or money."
"Can't you do something to help me?"
Everyone was crying. It was sad to watch. Tiant stood there with an empty look on his face.

What I'm getting at goes back to your comment about the locals finally getting to see footage of the exiled fighters who left their mark on the boxing world. Chris,that happened a long time ago with everything including boxing. It didn't take them long to figure it out. They didn't need any footage. When an A hole like Castro won't let them have the freedom to leave the country,that's a tell tale sign that the country is f "d up.

Jose Napoles's boxing idol,Ciro Morison was jailed as a political enemy after Castro took over. Later committed suicide(so they said).The people of Cuba know. They know it ain't no better than it was before. Napoles,Ramos,Legra,Rodriguez may not have been able to send picutures and letters back to Cuba,but when a son isn't allowed to go back and see his mother,you can take Fidel and Che and put them in there with the worst despots in Latin America history

BTW.I went up to the Olympic that night to see the Ramos/Ramos fight. If you had to tear a page out of the annals of the Olympic Auditorium, that night was a classic.Two great boxers going toe to toe. The crowd going wild.The best scientific boxing match I've ever seen.


Sugar Ramos

dagosd2000 wrote: ↑23 May 2019, 18:33 Chris
I saw a documentary awhile back about the famous major league pitcher,Luis Tiant. He exiled from Cuba to become one of the best pitchers to don a uniform in The Bigs.His father ,Luis Sr. was a baseball legend in Cuba. Well,Luis Jr. asked for a visa from Castro to visit his relatives in Havana. He got to go(Tiant backed Castro into a corner on that one). A U.S. film crew went along to do the documentary. When he arrived he was taken by family friends to a park in Havana were the local baseball fans would gather to talk baseball. One of his relatives went up to a group of men and said that he had brought along a very well known Cuban baseball player who played in the Major Leagues.The group all wanted to know if it was Mariano Rivera.When they were told it was Luis Tiant Jr.,they looked a little unimpressed.

When Tianr went back to his old neighborhood in Havana there were still some uncles and aunts living there. The neighborhood was run down and full of graffiti.. Trash littered the alleys and streets,storefronts were boarded up. Tiant had brought a suitcase of gifts:candy,toys,clothes. Before he said his good by's the older relatives threw themselves at his feet.
"Please take me with you."
"I'm sick and have no food or money."
"Can't you do something to help me?"
Everyone was crying. It was sad to watch. Tiant stood there with an empty look on his face.

What I'm getting at goes back to your comment about the locals finally getting to see footage of the exiled fighters who left their mark on the boxing world. Chris,that happened a long time ago with everything including boxing. It didn't take them long to figure it out. They didn't need any footage. When an A hole like Castro won't let them have the freedom to leave the country,that's a tell tale sign that the country is f "d up.

Jose Napoles's boxing idol,Ciro Morison was jailed as a political enemy after Castro took over. Later committed suicide(so they said).The people of Cuba know. They know it ain't no better than it was before. Napoles,Ramos,Legra,Rodriguez may not have been able to send picutures and letters back to Cuba,but when a son isn't allowed to go back and see his mother,you can take Fidel and Che and put them in there with the worst despots in Latin America history

BTW.I went up to the Olympic that night to see the Ramos/Ramos fight. If you had to tear a page out of the annals of the Olympic Auditorium, that night was a classic.Two great boxers going toe to toe. The crowd going wild.The best scientific boxing match I've ever seen.


Sugar Ramos

I'm curious to check out this documentary. I just asked a co-worker who is a big baseball guy about him and he mentioned the documentary. I see it's available for free trial on amazon prime.

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑24 May 2019, 11:57 I'm curious to check out this documentary. I just asked a co-worker who is a big baseball guy about him and he mentioned the documentary. I see it's available for free trial on amazon prime.

Chris
You should find it interesting and insightful. Surprised the Cuban government let it get past their customs.Let me know what you think.Roger

Old Fighters Get Lazy

Archie Moore said that,"Old fighters get lazy."When Archie Moore finally got his shot with Joey Maxim he was 41 years of age,maybe older. Moore continued to fight quite often as he always had done.After beating Maxim in 1952 Moore proceeded to fight eight times in 1953.In 1960 the NBA stripped him of his title because he refused to fight the contenders on their list. Moore had tried to wrest the heavyweight championship from Marciano,and then when Rocky retired ,Moore failed again to win the vacant heavyweight championship against Floyd Patterson, In 1962 all the other boxing organizations that had Moore as the light heavy champ withdrew their recognition.By the time Moore fought Clay,The Mongoose was pretty well shot.

Today,old fighters who were once great fighters,are still around fighting intermittently.The promoters hype it up wanting us to believe these geriatrics still have the goods. They're fighting for some semblance of a title. They're raking in the money.And their credibility is as sound as long as they're fighting an opponent that has been manufactured by the Madison Avenue boxing impresarios.

Holyfield,Toney,and Hopkins are three that come to mind. Call it that the divisions aren't that deep with talent.Or you can make a case that they're fighting on their name. To me it's a public that is gullible to all the build up and spends their rent money on Pay Per View.

When I saw Willie Mays at the end playing for the New York Mets,he couldn't get around on the fastball anymore. He certainly couldn't play everyday. Mickey Mantle couldn't run around center field anymore so they staked him to playing first base. But it was gentle. They just kind of slowly disappeared from the game. There's no gentle way out for a fighter. If he's been around and can't retire because he couldn't hold on to his money,he can't afford to take time off. You don't get a check for sitting on the bench like a baseball player. Guys like Mays,Mantle,and Aaron were so great in their primes that they were still selected to the All Star Game even when they couldn't score from 2nd base on a double.

When the good fighters back in the day hit the skids the skids they didn't get matched up in Madison Square Garden anymore. A fighter on his last legs would finish up in the venues where he earned his stripes.the honkytonk arenas of rural America or the bottom rung boxing edifices of the big cities. A fighter back then didn't slowly disappear,he vanished from sight. Joe Louis's leg dangling on the ring rope after Marciano's last barrage.. Archie Moore flat on his back with the young Clay standing over him..And years later Larry Holmes pleading to Richard Greene to stop the fight because Muhammad Ali couldn't defend himself.Those images are a lot more graphic than Willie Mays taking a called third strike and then strolling back to the dugout.

You'd think that Ali would have trained his tail off for that fight with Homes,but instead he looked at a little film of Larry(his former sparring partner0and concluded that Holmes didn't move his head. That he was a stationary target. His post retirement weight was always brought up by the scribes. He needed to get down to that Sonny Liston weight:210 pounds to be his old self.So he found a quack doctor that prescribed him thyroid pills and bingo,he was at his Sonny Liston poundage. No work involved,just gobble up the medicine like M&M's.

But there were a lot out there that thought Ali would find some way to prevail.But no one thought Archie Moore had a chance against Cassius Clay.The fans weren't as naive back then.They weren't so malleable.So stupid.

An old fighter gets lazy. His body ain't like it used to be. It doesn't respond.The mind sees the opening,but the reflexes aren't there. But today the spin doctors can make just about everyone believe what they want you to believe. Life has become one big ad campaign.You're better off keeping your money under the mattress.


Archie Moore

Grease Ball

When Tony Galento lost to Joe Louis,he blamed the defeat on his corner. In the dressing room after the fight,Galento was sitting there ,his face a mess,and sniveled to the scribes that after he knocked down Louis,his corner told Tony to "box." Galento was whining that if he hadn't listened to those instructions he would have beaten the Brown Bomber I never thought Galento could "box",at least not very well. He was one of the crudest brawlers in the history of the heavyweight division.Why would anyone tell him to "box" Louis after he got decked? No one bought that. But Two Ton Tony was one of those guy(,ala a Jake LaMotta) who was never very apologetic. If something screwed up ,he had a ready made excuse he could pull out of the hat.

Many years later Galento sat alongside Louis during an interview with Curt Gowdy and Don Dunphy on that show during the 70's "The Way It Was." Tony was donned in a snappy checkered sport coat and resting on his head was the worst looking toupee ever stitched together Of course it was brought up about the pre fight talk that Galento was putting in the media about Louis being a "bum." Joe,who by that time ,was beginning to show signs of slowing down said that he wanted to 'carry" Tony through 10 rounds and then give him the coup de grace. No one had ever called him names like that so he wanted to punish Tony before taking him out. But Louis said that after Galento toppled him that he wanted to get it over with quickly. If you're a fan of boxing you know I'm rehashing a lot of old stuff.


But what moves me is when two old rivals get together and talk about what is was like back then, and how they see things now. Tony Galento always reminded me of one of those guys that hung out on the corner in Little Italy in Chicago I was a kid then. Today,I don't consider flicks like the Godfather,Goodfellas,The Sopranos,and Bronx Tale on that iconic pedestal like I did when I was younger. To me they are demeaning to Italians. They send the wrong message to Italians. The gangsters are revered.The code. of omerta,the swagger,the braggadocio -it's all bull s--t.But when I look at all those Italian actors that grew up in New York City,it isn't much of a stretch for them to "act" in a movie. All an Italian has to do is be himself and eventually he'll win an Academy Award.Tony Galento was in a few movies:On The Waterfront and The Best Things In Life Are Free.In On The waterfront .Galento and Tami Mauriello played a couple of Johnny Friendly's(Lee J. Cobb) goons.They didn't need any direction. Scorsese had an easy time of it when he had all those dagos in his "Mob Movies."Tony Galento would have been on his payroll.

But getting back to "The Way It Was." Tony was still his old self. He said he was the best challenger out there. He had beaten all the others. He also said Joe Louis was the best fighter he ever faced.That Joe Louis was the best heavyweight ever. Not Marciano,but Joe Louis. Seeing two old war horses together,their punch gone,but their dignity intact. And Tony Galento changing his tune.

Joe Louis had the opposite personality of Tony Galento. Joe Louis was shy,humble,his words brief but honest.Tony was a big mouth,rude,and had banished the word "sorry" from his vocabulary. He was like those guys in the pool hall on Taylor Street.and he had the body and a face to match. It's what the Italians call "grease ball."On the surface it's a slight to be seen as a "grease ball",but you're not a real Italian if your recipe of meat balls didn't leave a little fat on the platter.


Tony Galento

No Mas Again

I'm reading where Roberto Duran And Sugar Ray Leonard are going to be highlighted in a forthcoming documentary. Both ex fighters are interviewed offering some interesting comments.

Roberto says that he blames his managers on his "No Mas" performance at the Superdome in New Orleans. He said he took the fight too soon after the first one. He had ballooned up to 190 pounds and that to take off so much weight to make 147 pounds had drained him.

"When I went into the ring I knew I wasn't going to last 15 rounds so I when I knew I wasn't going to do my best I quit."

Damn it Bobby, why didn't you just admit that 39 years ago? You fat bastard letting yourself get up to 190 pounds. Ray Arcel didn't force feed you. And he didn't tell you to go out there and say "No Mas." But then you go on to say that today's fighters would have "never won" against the fighters in your day. But you think Canelo is a worthy champ and that you're glad he's making money because it's usually "the Americans who make the money.But now we have Canelo and he's doing very well."

I think Mexicans are like Jews. If the child has a Jewish mother then the Jews consider the kid being Jewish. I think it's that way in Mexico:if the kid has a Mexican mother then the kid is looked at as being Mexican by Mexico.Bobby ,your mother was Mexican,but everyone thinks of you as a Panamanian.I've never heard of a Mexican who thinks you're a Mexican ,or even gives it a thought.

Sugar.You say that boxing needs to be "fixed", like repaired. But boxing can only be "fixed" by the promoters and the different organizations under their control. Every promoter and organization has their own champion. and they want to protect their goods. The buzz is always about "unification".You didn't hear that back in the day.

But back in the day those fighters thought they were better than the current crop.I remember Tony Zale and Rocky Graziano talking about their trilogy with Curt Gowdy on his" Remembering When" sports talk show in the mid 70's. Tony and Rocky were shaking their heads in disgust dismissing the current fighters as having nothing on the guys they fought. So Ali,Frazier,Holmes,Monzon,Napoles,Jofre, Olivares,Leonard,and Duran (just to scratch te surface) wouldn't have a prayer against the stars of their era.That means you too.And now Roberto,you say that the boxers of today are not on a par with the guys from your era. .But I'm sure if Tony and Rocky were still around you could always go up to them and tell them"No Mas."


Roberto Duran

Uncle Joe

"Where's Aurora today?"I asked the director of the Learning Center.
"She had to leave to Mexico City,"he answered. "Her uncle died last night."
"Her uncle Joe?"
"Yes.I think it was him ."
I had just entered the classroom when I noticed that Aurora wasn't at her desk. She was the Learning Center's secretary. The Learning Center was a classroom on campus for the kids that were behind in school. The district wanted to give a name that connotated an educational environment. The kids had until they turned 18 to get caught up. By then if they were still behind they were disenrolled because the school district wouldn't receive anymore state funding. Most of the kids dawdled even though the coursework was watered down,but there were a few that straightened themselves out getting back on track to graduate high school.
"Aurora's uncle used to be a fighter,"I commented to the director.
"I didn't know that,"he said as he was starting up his computer."When did he fight?"
"Back in the 30's and 40's. He did most of his fighting in Mexico."
"What was his name?"
"Joe Conde."
"Never heard of him."
"He was pretty popular. Fought Baby Casanova,Juan Zurita,and even beat Henry Armstrong once."
The director was waiting shifting in his chair for the computer to boot up.
"This computer must have a virus.It takes forever to start,"he said.

Aurora was probably in her late 40's when I got to know her. She had a squinty face with thin lips and small teeth.and plucked eyebrows that were very ugly. Her frame was bony and her legs spindly and knobby kneed.Her hair was thinning and you could see her scalp showing through.But with all that she thought of herself as being very alluring That persona,to me,made her seem more frightful. Aurora was kind of a shrew. A troublemaker. What the Mexicans call a "metiche". She was born in Tijuana but her family moved up here when she was little. Her husband was also Mexican and 10 years older than her,but looked much older. He was in the army and was in Iraq during Operation Desert Storm. From time to time Aurora would talk about her uncle.
"I remember when I was a little girl when we were living in Tijuana. Uncle Joe would come over to visit my mother. They were brother and sister.He had retired but everyone in the house made a big fuss when he'd come over. He was always very nice to us especially to me and my sisters.He'd bring over candy and ice cream."
"Did he ever talk about his career as a fighter?"
"Not with the women He'd sit in the parlor with my father and my other uncles and they'd ask him about his fights.You could tell they all admired him.He was very humble about it but you could tell he liked to be admired that way.They'd ask him about his fights with Henry Armstrong and the rivalries with Juan Zurita and Baby Casanova."
"He must have had a lot of good stories to tell."
"Yes.But I must have heard them a hundred times.I never understood most of it,but my my father and his friends would listen for hours. Then they'd go to the Coahuila and sit in the cantinas and drink and talk some more about fighting and dance with the girls and go with them later. They'd come back to the house the next day in the afternoon. Boxing never interested me.That was something for the men."
"When was the last time you saw him?"
"A few years ago. He came to Tijuana to visit his brother. We all went down to see them. I remember he took me in the car to go to the store. As we were driving some drunk stepped out in front of the car. My Uncle Joe slammed on the brakes,but hit him anyway. The drunk fell down in the street but he wasn't hurt. He got up screaming saying he was going to the police. Then he came toward me.I was in the passenger side of the car. He began screaming at me. Then my Uncle Joe pulled him away and tried to calm him down. A crowd had gathered by then. The drunk raised his fist at me. Just then my Uncle Joe hit him in face and the drunk went tumbling down in the middle of the street .He was out."
"What happened next?"
"My uncle got back in the car and we drove away like nothing happened. My uncle didn't say a word about it."

The next week Aurora returned from Mexico City. She was at her desk typing away when I walked in.
"I'm sorry to here about your uncle,"I said to her.
"Oh,it was very beautiful.Hundreds of people were at the church. Then we all walked to the cemetery one last time with him."
"That must have been nice,"I said.
"He looked so peaceful in the coffin.Except for the crooked nose and the scars around his eyes you wouldn't think he was a fighter.But boxing never interested me. That was something for the men."

The notorious Adelita Bar in the Coahuila in Tijuana.

dagosd2000 wrote: ↑28 May 2019, 19:49

The notorious Adelita Bar in the Coahuila in Tijuana.

Rog, maybe it's just the curmudgeon in me, but I'd like to hear more about the notorious Adelita Bar.

scartissue wrote: ↑29 May 2019, 12:13 Rog, maybe it's just the curmudgeon in me, but I'd like to hear more about the notorious Adelita Bar.

Coahuila 101

it's been awhile since I last set foot in the Adelita. The Adelita Bar is technically in the Colonia Zona Norte. that abuts along the border of the United States about a half mile from the crossing lanes. The Coahuila is the name of the street where the cantinas are located.The Adelita is located on Coahuila Street. The street is a block long. Between Coahuila Street and 1st Street is the "back" of Coahuila Street,a sidestreet that's another block long street noted for its cantinas. Before I get into describing the Adelita,I want to say that Revolutuion Street(the main drag in Tijuana)was once like the Coahuila with cantinas on both sides of the street for ten or so blocks. The cantinas on Revolution Street were frequented by American men:sailors,high school and college kids,and other types of horny gringos. I never saw a Mexican in a cantina on Revolution Street. Around 30 years ago the city began "cleaning up" Revolution Street closing down the cantinas. Today,maybe there's a few lft,but they don't do much business.

The Coahuila is the red light district for the Mexican men,but today you can go to the Coahuila and see just about as many American men. The Adelita was the first big name cantina in the Coahuila. Las Chavelas and The Hong Kong are the other two big name cantinas on Coahuila Street. The cantinas are so big that the doors stretch from Coahuila Street to the other Coahuila Street that's between Coahuila Street and 1st Street.

The Adelita,Las Chavelas,and the Hong Kong feature some very good looking women to put it mildly. They have to pass inspection in order to work in those places. The last time I went to the Adelita was to watch the Mayweather/Berto fight. I sat in a booth and immediately a girl in a tight mini "falda" sat down next to me.Soon appeared a waiter. I said that I just wanted to see the fight,but I didn't want to hassle with it so I told the waiter to bring over a beer for myself and what ever the lady wanted to drink.Usually,the girls in these places drink a watered down screwdriver. I paid ten bucks for the drinks.The waiter then gave the girl a chit that represented that she would split the five bucks with the bar. This is called the "ficha"or split. She was nice and very pretty and young,but I could tell she knew the ropes. She began rubbing my leg(That's what all of them do to try to get you going),but I told her that I just wanted to see the fight. She didn't get offended ,but she kept rubbing away thinking I'd get a hard on. I did,but still I just wanted to watch the fight. After she drank up, the waiter came over with two more drinks. I told him to take them back and he did finally.

Everything is negotiable in those bars except the cost of the room. I would say the minimum to get throwed and blowed is 40 for the girl and 10 for the room at the hotel next door.It's usually wham bam thank you maam unless you want something else.Then you have to reach for your wallet again. To tell the truth ,The Adelita along with the Hong Kong and Las Chavelas is kind of a ripoff. No man wants to be rushed. (BTW;kissing is probably the hardest thing to get from those girls.They think kissing is the most intimate sign of the lovemaking.So reach for the wallet)

The girls pay to work in those places. They are examined by doctors every month and have to carry health cards(cartas de sanidad)and papers from the police that allows them to work. The police get their cut. Like I said the girls are very pretty.However, if a girl isn't pulling her weight(making money for the bar) she'll get fired by the owner.

I've been with enough of them in my time.The girls who work in places like The Adelita or the fatter ones who work in the bars with the sawdust on the floor.Then there are the girls that stand outside on the sidewalk. Some of those girls work in the day and some at night. Usually,they are outside because they don't like to drink in the cantinas. They also require health cards and police papers. They must stand in their "assigned spots" on the sidewalk. They can't touch anyone passing by and any physical signs of affection with a customer on the street is a no no.

The girls's stories are similar:one or two kids,no husband,the kids live back in Yucatan with their mothers. The girls live in the various colonias in Tijuana. Before returning to their run of the mill neighborhoods they change out of their" mini faldas" and put on regular clothes.Where they live they blend in with everyone else.No one knows what they do for a living.The houses and apartments they live in are very common and typical.

I knew a woman who worked at Tio Pepe's-a joint on Revolution Street back in the day. She called herself "Suki" which means "I like you" in Japanese.She was half Japanese and half Mexican. She had a son who was going to the university in Tijuana(UABC).He was studying to be a doctor. "Suki" was paying for his education. I asked her if her son knew what she did.
"He thinks I work in an office building cleaning at night after everyone goes home,"she said.

The Adelita has a shuttle bus that picks up the gringos at the border and takes them to the bar and back. For 40 bucks to get laid ain't that bad a deal. The guy gets his rocks off and the gal gets to send her kid to college.


The Hong Kong Bar

.

Same Venue Different Time

The first fight I saw at The Los Angeles Forum was a title match between champion Lionel Rose and the challenger from Mexico,Chucho Castillo. Me and a few of my boxing buddies drove up from San Diego.We had tickets beforehand because I knew the fight would be a sellout.It was a time when there were a lot of hot Mexican bantamweights out there,but there weren't any that were the champ so they were all standing in line waiting their turns to take on the aborigine. .Joe Medael ,who was a terrific puncher,lost a MD to Rose at the Forum in August of 1968. In the on deck circle was Castillo and now in December Chucho would have his crack. Mexico was holding its ace card with Ruben Olivares standing in the wings if Chucho didn't succeed.

There must have been close to 100 % Mexicans in the crowd that night of the Rose/Castillo brawl. I say it was a brawl because Castillo came out and threw everything in his arsenal at Rose.However a lot of Castillo's shots were short rounds,but every time he did connect the crowd went berserk. Rose was a better boxer.He made Castillo miss often enough so that he could counter almost at will.Chucho was willing to trade but he was getting schooled by a more clever man.

I wasn't keeping score,but the way things were turning out I was hoping either boy would get Ko'd. I knew if it went 15 and Rose got his hand raised there would be one of those duck and cover drills at ringside. I was sitting close enough to the ring that I would have to be looking for incoming.The fight went the full limit and the scoring was the same as the Medel fight with the Australian still on the throne at the end.Then all hell broke loose. Firecrackers going off(Maybe some small arms.Could have been),folding chairs being flung inside the ring like boomerangs,and the target was the man from Boomerangland,Lionel Rose and his entourage. I scampered for the door,but the Mexican mob wasn't going to be deterred from having their fun. I don't think it was anger anymore than a ripe opportunity to have the numbers and raise hell.Most of the destroyers I saw were laughing and having the time of their lives. The scribes that had the nerve to photograph the arena wreckers standing there posing their s--t eating grins on their faces.I'll never forget that night.

The last fight I saw at the Forum was a few years back. it was a super flyweight bout between the flyweight champ Roman Gonzalez and the super fly champ from Mexico, Carlos Cuadras. I believe Carlos was the super fly champ. It was a spur of the moment thing. that I went.Besides,I couldn't find any takers to go with me. Gonzalez had caught my eye. He hadn't lost an amateur fight nor a professional fight. He reminded me of a small Juan Manual Marquez-a complete package of style in the ring.I didn't know too much about Cuadrras except that his record was very good.But I figured there would be another wild and crazy Mexican crowd packed to the doors like the time I saw Rose and Castillo fight 40 years earlier. For starters, there were a lot of empty seats. The noise level was on a brink near civility.There was no tension. No electricity. It never got off the ground. The fight was a good one. Gonzalez was out boxing Cuadras early but in the last several rounds Cuadras was putting pressure on.Maybe if it had been like the old days, a 15 rounder, Cuadras may have amassed enough points to win. Another close fight,but Gonzalez deserved the decision.His hand got raised after 12 fast rounds. And we were still in more or less in a thoughtful atmosphere. No chairs in the air.No mob mentality. No anxiety about getting a knife pulled ..I'll never forget that night either ,but for different reasons.

Now I'm not condoning violent demonstrations. I don't want to see anyone get hurt or go to jail, and I have to say I didn't miss the cops storming in wearing their riot gear. But it would have brought back some memories just to hear a little fire cracker go off.


Ruben Olivares

Rose won that fight and square for me. It was close. Great fight. Lionel is so underrated because of the Olivares fight and his quick burnout but he went to Japan as a teen and beat a great champion in Harada and scalps like Chucho, Rudkin, Medel are top notch.

How did Rose-Medel look? Did you see that fight?

I was at Gonzalez-Cuadras too. I go to most of the Forum fights but yeah the crowd just isn’t into it as much. I went to Estrada-Rungvisai II last month and the action was great on the card but not even half full. Estrada is a wonderful Mexican fighter and barely anyone knows it. Such a shame.

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑31 May 2019, 00:06 Rose won that fight and square for me. It was close. Great fight. Lionel is so underrated because of the Olivares fight and his quick burnout but he went to Japan as a teen and beat a great champion in Harada and scalps like Chucho, Rudkin, Medel are top notch.

How did Rose-Medel look? Did you see that fight?

I was at Gonzalez-Cuadras too. I go to most of the Forum fights but yeah the crowd just isn’t into it as much. I went to Estrada-Rungvisai II last month and the action was great on the card but not even half full. Estrada is a wonderful Mexican fighter and barely anyone knows it. Such a shame.

Chris
I can't remember if I saw Rose/Medel on YouTube,but I did see the replay.Medel was a great puncher except he got beat to the punch too often. That's what I remember about that fight.

I appreciate your comments about Estrada. He is a very good fighter. So is Santa Cruz,Berchelt,Nery,and Navarette. But it's not like it was back 40 or 50 years ago. There are less aficianados of boxing in Mexico today. I bring up the names of the fighters you and I just mentioned and I get a blank look on faces. Canelo is the only guy out there that has a following. It's kind of like here:MMA has taken over.

dagosd2000 wrote: ↑31 May 2019, 10:24 Chris
I can't remember if I saw Rose/Medel on YouTube,but I did see the replay.Medel was a great puncher except he got beat to the punch too often. That's what I remember about that fight.

I appreciate your comments about Estrada. He is a very good fighter. So is Santa Cruz,Berchelt,Nery,and Navarette. But it's not like it was back 40 or 50 years ago. There are less aficianados of boxing in Mexico today. I bring up the names of the fighters you and I just mentioned and I get a blank look on faces. Canelo is the only guy out there that has a following. It's kind of like here:MMA has taken over.

Unfortunately I've never seen Rose-Medel surface much as I'd like to see it. I like both fighters a lot.

Yeah, I was going to add that the Forum had good, loud crowds for Juan Manuel Marquez' return against Mike Alvarado and the two Golovkin fights vs. stiffs but the one's featuring the likes of Estrada, Gonzalez, Berchelt etc; nothing outside of a small hardcore fan base sadly. I attended Jorge Linares vs. Luke Campbell and they might as well have fought in a gym there were so few people and the only noise came from Campbell's fans at ringside. Linares, an excellent fighter with great style vs. an Olympic gold medalist and nothing but crickets. It's became so niche now. Just in my lifetime going back to when Marquez, Barrera, Morales etc; were going strong there just doesn't seem to be that enthusiasm anymore, like you say, it's all Canelo. An excellent fighter but not to the point he's the only fighter that deserves attention and certainly not an entertainer in the manner of those guys either.

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑31 May 2019, 12:12 Unfortunately I've never seen Rose-Medel surface much as I'd like to see it. I like both fighters a lot.

Yeah, I was going to add that the Forum had good, loud crowds for Juan Manuel Marquez' return against Mike Alvarado and the two Golovkin fights vs. stiffs but the one's featuring the likes of Estrada, Gonzalez, Berchelt etc; nothing outside of a small hardcore fan base sadly. I attended Jorge Linares vs. Luke Campbell and they might as well have fought in a gym there were so few people and the only noise came from Campbell's fans at ringside. Linares, an excellent fighter with great style vs. an Olympic gold medalist and nothing but crickets. It's became so niche now. Just in my lifetime going back to when Marquez, Barrera, Morales etc; were going strong there just doesn't seem to be that enthusiasm anymore, like you say, it's all Canelo. An excellent fighter but not to the point he's the only fighter that deserves attention and certainly not an entertainer in the manner of those guys either.

Chris
I probably saw the replay of the Rose/Medel fight in the 70's when the Mexican channel on Sundays had a show devoted to the great Mexican fighters. The Mexican network Telemundo would film all the fights that involved an important Mexican fighter.Of course the broadcasts are in Spanish. As I said before these broadcasts are now property of the Mexican government. Mexico does this a lot with things they consider national treasures. Jose Casasola,the famous photographer of the Mexican Revolution,after his death, all the thousands photographs he took were bought by the government from his family and now are hidden from the public. Very few of the photographs have been released for public view. I don't understand the rationality-with these old time fights or Casasola's photographs that would be so appreciated by the world.

BTW;I was good friends with a Mexican old timer who was on the 1952 Mexican team( he was good friends with Raton Macias.My friend swam the butterfly).He also worked at the Mexican Consulate in San Diego. He passed away some years ago. He gave me a 4 volume set of books containing all of Casasola's photographs of the Mexican Revolution. This was before the images became the sole possession of the Mexican government.

Canelo is not the showman,but he's finally getting all the adoration in Mexico after winning by a wide margin with the junior Chavez

The Mouse That Roared

"It was all for show,"said Wally."We had more athletes than the United States.But we only won one medal.Raton Macias won the silver."
I didn't think he was right about Macias winning a silver medal at the 1952 summer Olympic Games in Helsinki,but it wasn't important to have corrected him.Wally O'Campo was sitting in his wheel chair in his condominium that was in the University City section of San Diego..I had brought over some of my tapes of Mexican fighters to watch on his VHS.It was Wally's condo. His daughter Cihtli lived with him.Cihtli was my granddaughter Amanda's flamenco teacher at the time. That's how I got to know Wally through his daughter Cihtli.
"How did you do ?"I asked.
"I was eliminated early," he answered."It was all for show.Mexico had a huge team ,but we didn't do anything.If it wasn't for Raton Macias we wouldn't have enjoyed a laugh.He kept our spirits up."
Wally was from Mexico City. He was part of that chilango arisiocracy that people outside of the capital resented. They saw chilangos(people from Mexico city)as being self haughty, loquacious,self absorbed,and too opinionated. Also there's the legend that Mexico City,formerly,Tetochtitlan,was founded by the Mexica people in the 1300's and that he Aztec gods lived there, and the city was and is still considered something sacred. Mexico City is the most populated city in the western hemisphere(20 million)and I'm doubtful that many residents think of themselves as being something special. However, there is a strain of conceit at the top. They're the ones that are referred to as chilangos, Even though Wally was of that ilk,he wasn't arrogant. He valued his upbringing and education,his participation in the 52 and 56 on the Mexican Olympic swim teams(He swam the butterfly) .We talked the gamut in his living room-from food to politics,throwing in a lot of history,race,customs and cultures,the differences between the U.S. and Mexico,and one of his favorite interests,boxing.
"To think that the government spent so much money sending us to the Olympics when it could have been used for better thing.s,"he complained.
"But you must have seen a lot ,"I said.
"Yes.I traveled a good part of the world swimming with the Mexican team.I even competed in Russia."
Wally had a wispy body.I didn't know him before he had his strokes,but I saw pictures of him posing with other teammates overseas.His bronze coloring and thick wavy black hair gave him a Don Juan appearance. His long face featured a wide mouth and hazel eyes that expressed a vivid concentration. From his conversations you knew he wasn't from the ranch. He wanted to talk and dissect everything. I guess that was the chilango him.
"I'll always remember Macias.He wasn't like the rest of us.He was from Mexico City but he was very poor. He grew up in Tepito."
"I have a sister in law who lives in Tepito. It's a pretty rough neighborhood. I went there once with my wife to visit her sister. One morning there were some gunshots.They shot this guy dead on her doorstep."
"Macias was very popular in Mexico. He was handsome and made movies and starred in television after he retired from boxing."
"My wife isn't into sports but she liked Raton Macias because he was a movie star."
"But just because he was a great fighter didn't mean he'd be a movie star. He was genuine and outgoing.The people could approach him. And he was very good looking and knew it.He made you feel better about yourself when in his presence."
"That must have been great to know him,"I said.
"I think I would have returned home from Helsinki if Macias hadn't been around. He made all of us laugh. He made our homesickness go away."

I used to visit Wally once a week. No one came over to visit him much after the last stroke. His daughter,Cihtli,was out giving flamenco lessons and traveling to Spain with her boyfriend most of the time.A lady from Tijuana would come up from the border on the trolley,then take a couple of buses to come over and look after Wally during the week.The lady was very kind and patient.She would go in the back room when I came over so Wally and I could talk openly.She told me that she was very happy because her children lived near her and came over to visit all the time.

I got the call about Wally's passing from his daughter. She said that she wasn't home that night because she was giving a lesson. The neighbors told her that they heard Wally shouting hysterically out the window. One of them called the police. When they arrived Wally was already gone. He had had of a stroke. The police asked the neighbors what he was yelling.
"It was hard to make out,"one of them said."something like Ramon ,or something like that."
"You sure it was Ramon?"asked one of the officers again.
"It sounded at first he was shouting 'raton'but that wouldn't have made any sense."
"No.I guess not,"said the policeman writing everything down.


Raton Macias

.

Something To Chew On

"Just name a hero and I'll prove he's a bum."
Gregory "Pappy" Boyington
United States Marine Corps Medal of Honor recipient.Commander of the Baa Baa Black Sheep Squadron.Led all Marine Corps fighter pilots with 28 kills in World War II.

That's what it is today. Put someone up on a pedestal.Give him a medal. Recognize an act of bravery.An act of heroism. He won't get away with it. There're the ones(mostly the press)that will pry. Scrounge around.Turn over every garbage can cover.Insinuate.Take hearsay as a bonafide fact until the image is rearranged to show a picture of a rogue good for nothing.No one is going to get a pass.Whether it be Jesus Christ or a Medal of Honor recipient. And here's "Pappy" Boyington ready to throw dirt on the character of his band of brothers.

But FDR put the Congressional Medal of Honor around his neck. Is it a emblem of distinction or an albatross? I wonder if Boyington was still around and I called his wingman a "bum"? Would he haul off and punch me in the nose or shake my hand? He can call his squadron a bunch of bums. Maybe if the outsider made that claim he'd be picking his teeth off the ground.

But if heroes are bums ,according to "Pappy",how about the servicemen who were selling cigarettes and candy in the PX's stateside?Or the troops that went over the hill?Or the guys who got deferments because they had punctured ear drums?

Take it down a notch or two. There are our sports heroes. They don't get out of the line of fire. Joe Louis was a womanizer.So was Marciano.LaMotta and Sugar Ray liked to practice a few left right combinations on their wives. Ali?Well they had plenty on him didn't they.

So if you're a hero you're a bum."Pappy" will verify that. And if you're already a bum you have nothing to worry about.Being a bum just comes with the territory. The Good Book tells you that. Adam and Eve kicked it off and no matter how many enemy fighters you shoot down or how many title belts you have around your waist the skeletons in your closet will become public record.

So if you're a hero or think of yourself as one be ready to put on your flak jacket. But the writer Camus had another take on this hero stuff.
"Heroism is not much.Happiness is more difficult."
Now that's something to chew on.


"Pappy" Boyington