BoxRec

The GOAT with his mom:

The GOAT with his mom, dad, and brother:

Il Duce wrote:

ThatOne wrote:

How many 19 year-olds in 1961 were driving a new Cadillac.......

Il Duce

How many nineteen year olds had just won the 1960 Olympic Light Heavyweight championship.?

He earned it as a gift from his management group.

Cassius, Senior and Odessa certainly didn't buy it for him.

ThatOne
-Respected board elder and purveyor of the truth

No,



He negotiated that deal, from whom.........

'11' Businessmen, who went out of their way to help and promote Cassius Clay.

What 'color' were these 'racists' from Louisville...........

Nobody here was suggesting every white people was a racist and they certainly turned out to be prudent investors

That One
Keeping it real at boxrec since 2009

Il Duce,

It is laughable to imagine that an Olympics gold medal was "gifted" by his benefactors.

That's like saying you were "gifted" by BoxRec as being the gold medal spinmeister on this forum.

Each earned such recognition by their own actions.

The fighter formerly known as Cassius as an accomplished amateur boxer of the time, and you for your inveterate fanciful fictitious benefactions.

Wow.....did you really just say that?

I'll try to find the time to come up with an example of why that sounds so hollow.....

Hmmm .00043 seconds later I have one.....

Did you ever read about the rat pack? Sammy was not always treated in every venue like Frank and Dean.....even though he was pretty well known and well to do by that time. Not to mention loved by even those who may have felt the need to "show him to the (other) door....or perhaps guide him to the (other) faucet.

Not even Millionaire Dandies of African heritage were spared the pain of inequality in certain areas of the world. Do you honestly doubt this? IF G is not correct in his judgment of you, then surely you are either highly uneducated or massively insensitive on this very specific issue.

If uneducated....then get busy and hit the books. If insensitive, rush to a 12 step sensitivity program.

Yes economics was often at root of some bigotry and bias....but once again...you are using one set of facts/truths to hide or make ambiguous another set of facts/truths.

Do you realize you do that a lot? Maybe it's just a blind spot on your behalf. I suggest you go back and read your own contributions. See if you don't pick up on what I'm suggesting here.

It's never too late to pick up and start over.

Il Duce wrote:King Box Buzz,

Dictating from his 'throne' on what is right and wrong.

'When we fail, is not easier to blame others than to take personal responsibility.'

The point here, is that Cassius Clay from Louisville, Kentucky was 'not' affected
by the 'racism' that was going on in the 'Deep South'.

Please, please, find one photo, just one photo of Cassius Clay in some poor
Alabama or Mississippi 'downtrodden hell hole' handing out 'anything' {pre-April 1967}.

Don't waste your time, because you won't find one.

MADISON DAVIS LACY: To change tone now, take me to Yulee, Florida. Tell me that story.
EDWIN POPE: That bus ride had one very unpleasant moment. The first night we were out, ah, we stopped at little place called Yulee, Y-U-L-E-E, Florida, up in north Florida and it's really back in the country. They had to pipe daylight in there; it'd take you a week to get a postcard out there. Ah, Ali didn't wanna stop. Everybody else wanted to stop, to get some food. Ali said, "I don't wanna to stop till we get through Georgia. We want to get his bus through Georgia because I don't want anybody, having to, ah, fool with any Ku Klux Klanmen[SIC], Klansmen or any, as he put it, any Georgia Baptist." Ah, and nonetheless, they pulled into this little, ah, roadside stand in Yulee, Florida about 11:30 at night and Drew Brown, the assistant trainer they called Bundini Brown, went in to try to get some food to take with us. And the proprietor, um, refused Bundini. He said, "You have to go around to the window outside." Well, Bundini, he got very upset about it. George Plimpton, ah, stepped up and said, ah, and so did, ah, Bud Collins and so did I, ah, stepped up and asked if, how they had the right to do this, wasn't this the United States? And, ah, this man says, "No, this is not the United States." And, ah, he may have had a point there. I think it wasn't a part of the United States at the time and may not be yet for that matter. In any case, Bundini got back on the bus and he was crying, he was sobbing, ah, in terrible shape. And Ali says, "I told you not to do that. I told you, you're in the wrong part of the country to go in and, for a Black person to go in and try to order food." He says, "I don't have any damn sympathy for you, whatever." And he took, picked up his pillow and started beating him over the head with it, half in jest, half seriously. It was a very touching moment though. Bundini was weeping and talking about having been in the service and fought for his country and was denied, ah, just the most basic human right. And Ali, seeming in a wisdom far beyond his years, discerning even advan- in advance, the treatment that he knew Bundini would get, and warning him and berating him for trying to defy convention at that time.

http://digital.wustl.edu/e/eii/eiiweb/p ... npope.html




That was quick

one....you were almost as quick as me...AND you have cited your source....VERY GOOD.

Sadly.....I went on memory.....and did not cite a source. But I think Sammy Davis Jr's adventures are iconic enough for most to take me at my word regarding my example.


Sorry to complicate this portion of this thread with relevant facts.......


Now....Il Duce.....please proceed with your wonderful fictional accounts of alternative history.

I will list the Jim Crow laws of the Old South and then the Nuremberg Laws of NAZI Germany and aak readers to point out the substantial differences.

Jim Crow laws:


rom the 1880s into the 1960s, a majority of American states enforced segregation through "Jim Crow" laws (so called after a black character in minstrel shows). From Delaware to California, and from North Dakota to Texas, many states (and cities, too) could impose legal punishments on people for consorting with members of another race. The most common types of laws forbade intermarriage and ordered business owners and public institutions to keep their black and white clientele separated.
Here is a sample of laws from various states:
Nurses: No person or corporation shall require any white female nurse to nurse in wards or rooms in hospitals, either public or private, in which Negro men are placed. (Alabama)
Buses: All passenger stations in this state operated by any motor transportation company shall have separate waiting rooms or space and separate ticket windows for white and colored races. (Alabama)
Railroads: The conductor of each passenger train is authorized and required to assign each passenger to the car or the division of the car, when it is divided by a partition, designated for the race to which such passenger belongs. (Alabama)
Restaurants: It shall be unlawful to conduct a restaurant or other place for the serving of food in the city, at which white and colored people are served in the same room, unless such white and colored persons are effectively separated by a solid partition extending from the floor upward to a distance of seven feet or higher, and unless a separate entrance from the street is provided for each compartment.
Pool and Billiard Rooms: It shall be unlawful for a Negro and white person to play together or in company with each other at any game of pool or billiards. (Alabama)
Toilet Facilities, Male: Every employer of white or Negro males shall provide for such white or Negro males reasonably accessible and separate toilet facilities. (Alabama)
Intermarriage: The marriage of a person of Caucasian blood with a Negro, Mongolian, Malay, or Hindu shall be null and void. (Arizona)
Intermarriage: All marriages between a white person and a Negro person or between a white person and a person of Negro descent to the fourth generation inclusive, are hereby forever prohibited. (Florida)
Cohabitation: Any Negro man and white women, or any white man and Negro woman, who are not married to each other, who shall habitually live in and occupy in the nighttime the same room shall each be punished by imprisonment not exceeding twelve (12) months, or by fine not exceeding five hundred ($500.00) dollars. (Florida)
Education: The schools for white children and the schools for Negro children shall be conducted separately. (Florida)
Juvenile Delinquents: There shall be separate buildings, not nearer than one fourth mile from each other, one for white boys and one for Negro boys. White boys and Negro boys shall not, in any manner, be associated together or worked together. (Florida)
Mental Hospitals: The Board of Control shall see that proper and distinct apartments are arranged for said patients, so that in no case shall Negroes and white persons be together. (Georgia)
Intermarriage: It shall be unlawful for a white person to marry anyone except a white person. Any marriage in violation of this section shall be void. (Georgia)
Barbers: No colored barber shall serve as a barber [to] white women or girls. (Georgia)
Burial: The officer in charge shall not bury, or allow to be buried, any colored persons upon ground set apart or used for the burial of white persons. (Georgia)
Restaurants: All persons licensed to conduct a restaurant, shall serve either white people exclusively or colored people exclusively and shall not sell to the two races within the same room or serve the two races anywhere under the same license. (Georgia)
Amateur Baseball: IT shall be unlawful for any amateur white baseball team to play baseball on any vacant lot or baseball diamond within two blocks of a playground devoted to the Negro race, and it shall be unlawful for any amateur colored baseball team to play baseball in any vacant lot or baseball diamond within two blocks of any playground devoted to the white race. (Georgia)
Parks: It shall be unlawful for colored people to frequent any park owned or maintained by the city for the benefit, use and enjoyment of white persons. and unlawful for nay white person to frequent any park owned or maintained by the city for the use and benefit of colored persons. (Georgia)
Wine and Beer: Any person licensed to conduct the business of selling beer or wine. shall serve either white people exclusively or colored people exclusively and shall not serve to the two races within the same room at any time. (Georgia)
Reform Schools: The children of white and colored races committed to the houses of reform shall be kept entirely separate from each other. (Kentucky)
Circus Tickets: All circuses, shows and tent exhibitions, to which the attendance of.more than one race is invited or expected to attend shall provide for the convenience of its patrons not less than two ticket offices with individual sellers, and not less than two entrances to the said performance, with individual ticket takers and receivers, and in the case of outside or tent performances, the said ticket offices shall not be less than twenty-five feet (25) apart. (Louisiana)
Housing: Any person. who shall rent any part of any such building to a Negro person or a Negro family when such building is already in whole or in part in occupancy by a white person or white family, or vice versa when the building is in occupancy by a Negro person or Negro family, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and on convictions thereof shall be punished by a fine of not less than twenty-five ($25) nor more than one hundred ($100.00) dollars or be imprisoned not less than 10, or more than 60 days, or both such fine and imprisonment in the discretion of the court. (Louisiana)
The Blind: The board of trustees shall. maintain a separate building. on separate ground for the admission, care, instruction, and support of all blind persons of the colored or black race. (Louisiana)
Intermarriage: All marriages between a white person and a Negro, or between a white person and a person of Negro descent, to the third generation, inclusive, or between a white person and a member of the Malay race; or between a person of Negro descent to the third Generation, inclusive, and a member of the Malay race, are forever prohibited, and shall be void. (Maryland)
Education: Separate schools shall be maintained for the children of the white and colored races. (Mississippi)
Promotion of Equality: Any person. who shall be guilty of printing, publishing or circulating printed, typewritten or written matter urging or presenting for public acceptance or general information, arguments or suggestions in favor of social equality or of intermarriage between whites and Negroes, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to fine or imprisonment not exceeding five hundred ($500.00) dollars or imprisonment not exceeding six (6) months or both. (Mississippi) Intermarriage: The marriage of a white person with a Negro or mulatto, or person who shall have one-eight or more of Negro blood shall be unlawful and void. (Mississippi)
Hospital Entrances: There shall be maintained by the governing authorities of every hospital maintained by the state for the treatment of white and colored patients separate entrances for white and colored patients and visitors, and such entrances shall be used by the race only for which they are prepared. (Mississippi)
Prisons: The warden shall see that the white convicts shall have separate apartments for both eating and sleeping from the Negro convicts. (Mississippi)
Education: Separate free schools shall be established for the education of children of African descent; and it shall be unlawful for any colored child to attend any white school, or any white child to attend a colored school. (Missouri)
Intermarriage: All marriages between . white persons and Negroes or white persons and Mongolians... are prohibited and declared absolutely void... . No person having one-eighth part or more of Negro blood shall be permitted to marry any white person, nor shall any white person be permitted to marry any Negro or person having one-eighth part or more of Negro blood. (Missouri)
Education: Separate rooms [shall] be provided for the teaching of pupils of African descent, and [when] said rooms are so provided, such pupils may not be admitted to the school rooms occupied and used by pupils of Caucasian or other descent. (New Mexico)
Textbooks: Books shall not be interchangeable between the white and colored schools, but shall be continued to be used by the race first using them. (North Carolina)
Libraries: The state librarian is directed to fit up and maintain a separate place for the use of the colored people who may come to the library for the purpose of reading books or periodicals. (North Carolina)
Militia: The white and colored militia shall be separately enrolled, and shall never be compelled to serve in the same organization. The organization of colored troops shall not be permitted where white troops are available, and colored troops shall be under the command of white officers. (North Carolina)
Transportation: The. Utilities Commission. is empowered and directed to require the establishment of separate waiting rooms at all stations for the white and colored races. (North Carolina)
Teaching: Any instructor who shall teach in any school, college or institution where members of the white and colored race are received and enrolled as pupils for instruction shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction thereof, shall be fined in any sum not less than ten dollars ($10.00) not more than fifty dollars ($50.00) for each offense. (Oklahoma)
Fishing, Boating, Bathing: The Conservation Commission shall have the right to make segregation of the white and colored races as to the exercise of rights of fishing, boating and bathing. (Oklahoma)
Mining: The baths and lockers for the Negroes shall be separate from the white race, but may be in the same building. (Oklahoma)
Telephone Booths: The Corporation Commission is hereby vested with power and authority to require telephone companies.. to maintain separate booths for white and colored patrons when there is a demand for such separate booths. That the Corporation Commission shall determine the necessity for said separate booths only upon complaint of the people in the town and vicinity to be served after due hearing as now provided by law in other complains filed with the Corporation Commission. (Oklahoma)
Lunch Counters: No persons, firms, or corporations, who or which furnish meals to passengers at station restaurants or station eating houses, in times limited by common carriers of said passengers, shall furnish said meals to white and colored passengers in the same room, or at the same table , or at the same counter. (South Carolina)
Child Custody: It shall be unlawful for any parent, relative, or other white person in this State, having the control or custody of any white child, by right or guardianship, natural or acquired, or otherwise, to dispose of, give or surrender such white child permanently into the custody, control, maintenance, or support of a Negro. (South Carolina)
Libraries: Any white person of such county may use the county free libraries under the rules and regulations prescribed by the commissioners court and may be entitled to all the privileges thereof. Said court shall make proper provision for the Negroes of said county to be served through a separate branch or branches of the county free library, which shall be administered by a custodian of the Negro race under the supervision of the county librarian. (Texas)
Education: The County Board of Education shall provide schools of two kinds: those for white children and those for colored children. (Texas)
Theaters: Every person. operating. any public hall, theater, opera house, motion picture show or any place of public entertainment or public assemblage which is attended by both white and colored persons shall separate the white and colored race and shall set apart and designate. certain seats therein to be occupied by white persons and a portion thereof, or certain seats therein, to be occupied by colored persons. (Virginia)
Railroads: The conductors or managers on all such railroads shall have power, and are hereby required, to assign to each white or colored passenger his or her respective car, coach, or compartment. If the passenger fails to disclose his race, the conductor and managers, acting in good faith shall be the sole judges of his race. (Virginia)
Intermarriage: All marriages of white persons with Negroes, Mulattos, Mongolians, or Malaya hereafter contracted in the state of Wyoming are and shall be illegal and void. (Wyoming)

http://people.sju.edu/~brokes/jimcrow.htm

Nuremberg Laws of NAZI Germany:


Section 1

1. Marriages between Jews and citizens of German or kindred blood are forbidden. Marriages concluded in defiance of this law are void, even if, for the purpose of evading this law, they were concluded abroad.

2. Proceedings for annulment may be initiated only by the Public Prosecutor.

Section 2

Sexual relations outside marriage between Jews and nationals of German or kindred blood are forbidden.

Section 3

Jews will not be permitted to employ female citizens of German or kindred blood as domestic servants.

Section 4

1. Jews are forbidden to display the Reich and national flag or the national colors.

2. On the other hand they are permitted to display the Jewish colors. The exercise of this right is protected by the State.

Section 5

1. A person who acts contrary to the prohibition of Section 1 will be punished with hard labour.

2. A person who acts contrary to the prohibition of Section 2 will be punished with imprisonment or with hard labour.

3. A person who acts contrary to the provisions of Sections 3 or

4 will be punished with imprisonment up to a year and with a fine, or with one of these penalties.

Section 6

The Reich Minister of the Interior in agreement with the Deputy Fuhrer and the Reich Minister of Justice will issue the legal and administrative regulations required for the enforcement and supplementing of this law.

Section 7

The law will become effective on the day after its promulgation; Section 3, however, not until 1 January 1936.

BoxBuzz wrote:one....you were almost as quick as me...AND you have cited your source....VERY GOOD.

Sadly.....I went on memory.....and did not cite a source. But I think Sammy Davis Jr's adventures are iconic enough for most to take me at my word regarding my example.


Sorry to complicate this portion of this thread with relevant facts.......


Now....Il Duce.....please proceed with your wonderful fictional accounts of alternative history.

Duce asked for instances where Ali himself was denied equal protection under the law. I cited one instance. I know there were others. And it's a silly point to make; that a black man who came of age prior to the civil rights legislation of the mid sixties wasn't exposed to racism. I prefer the word discrimination to racism because the former is a manifestation of the latter but both were not just endemic to the south but to the entire nation.

Il Duce wrote:King Box Buzz,

Dictating from his 'throne' on what is right and wrong.

'When we fail, is not easier to blame others than to take personal responsibility.'

The point here, is that Cassius Clay from Louisville, Kentucky was 'not' affected
by the 'racism' that was going on in the 'Deep South'.

Please, please, find one photo, just one photo of Cassius Clay in some poor
Alabama or Mississippi 'downtrodden hell hole' handing out 'anything' {pre-April 1967}.

Don't waste your time, because you won't find one.

When Ali returned from winning the Gold Medal in Rome he was refused service at a downtown restaurant. He asked for a 'hotdog, milkshake' and the waitress replied 'We don't serve negroes !' Ali retorted '...and I don't eat 'em either!' lol lol.....is that not a racial prejudice Il Duce? This was quoted a few times in interviews by Ali....the first Michael Parkinson interview in 1971 being one of them. Very funny interview. Ali at his brilliant best. Ali, who had represented America and won Gold couldn't be served a meal in his own home town...disgusting.

evrenb

evrenb wrote:

Il Duce wrote:King Box Buzz,

Dictating from his 'throne' on what is right and wrong.

'When we fail, is not easier to blame others than to take personal responsibility.'

The point here, is that Cassius Clay from Louisville, Kentucky was 'not' affected
by the 'racism' that was going on in the 'Deep South'.

Please, please, find one photo, just one photo of Cassius Clay in some poor
Alabama or Mississippi 'downtrodden hell hole' handing out 'anything' {pre-April 1967}.

Don't waste your time, because you won't find one.

When Ali returned from winning the Gold Medal in Rome he was refused service at a downtown restaurant. He asked for a 'hotdog, milkshake' and the waitress replied 'We don't serve negroes !' Ali retorted '...and I don't eat 'em either!' lol lol.....is that not a racial prejudice Il Duce? This was quoted a few times in interviews by Ali....the first Michael Parkinson interview in 1971 being one of them. Very funny interview. Ali at his brilliant best. Ali, who had represented America and won Gold couldn't be served a meal in his own home town...disgusting.

evrenb

Thanks for that Example.......I had forgotten about that.

Anyway...we now return you to the fictional portion of this thread.....take it away.....


and........Heeeeere's ILLY!!

Il Duce wrote:You do know that Switzerland is the country with the least amount of crime.

I wonder how that happens......

What pray tell does that have to do with "Did Ali really hit his "Peak"?"

As an aside I think that gem gave your nemeses much to work with.

I can answer it but I am content to be a observer right now.

Il Duce wrote:You do know that Switzerland is the country with the least amount of crime.

I wonder how that happens......

It's a country with a lot of opportunities and an historically excellent government. Poverty breeds crime, for a first world country America for some people has a terrible standard of living.

p4p1 wrote:

Il Duce wrote:You do know that Switzerland is the country with the least amount of crime.

I wonder how that happens......

It's a country with a lot of opportunities and an historically excellent government. Poverty breeds crime, for a first world country America for some people has a terrible standard of living.

It's a small and homogeneous nation with a low poverty rate. When you control for income the incidence of crime among different racial groups largely disappears. Middle class guys aren't jacking up liquor stores.

Island nations often have this dynamic as well. Easier to banish, harder to join.

BoxBuzz wrote:Island nations often have this dynamic as well. Easier to banish, harder to join.

Yes the island I live on is a pretty good place to live ATM though people were banished to it, but when our minerals run out I don't think it will be.

Il Duce wrote:You do know that Switzerland is the country with the least amount of crime.

I wonder how that happens......

Several posters have already voiced an opinion as to why that may be true, but what do think the main reason is duchess?

Il Duce wrote:

Giancarlo wrote:

Il Duce wrote:You do know that Switzerland is the country with the least amount of crime.

I wonder how that happens......

Several posters have already voiced an opinion as to why that may be true, but what do think the main reason is duchess?

I'm not sure,

Do you think the Swiss people are 'racist'.

And speaking of 'Iceland', it is one of the safest countries to live in, always coming in 1, 2 or 3.

I have been there, and it is a wonderful country.

The people of Iceland, refuse to vacation in Detroit.

Well that's an out and out lie.

Björk Guðmundsdóttir was seen their as recently as last spring.

He....is a She....

She is a singer from Iceland.

hmm..is she "gender ambiguous?"

BoxBuzz wrote:hmm..is she "gender ambiguous?"

No. She's just a strange woman.

What about Lady Gaga in the Egg Suit?



or The Meat Suit

Il Duce wrote:Or, Sonny Bono

It sucks to see Cher these days, she was actually hot once upon a time. It's been about 40 years or so though.

I worked on stage backing Her and Sonny in Phoenix Az when they were brand spankin' new out of the box. Performing their first reprise song which was "Pretty Baby Please Don't Go". She stood directly in front of me, as I was Playing my guitar with a smile, as the camera panned across my face, with my eyes locked in a chronic gawking stare aimed directly at her lower backside. I was mesmerized

What a wonderful view I had. lol

BoxBuzz wrote:I worked on stage backing Her and Sonny in Phoenix Az when they were brand spankin' new out of the box. Performing their first reprise song which was "Pretty Baby Please Don't Go". She stood directly in front of me, as I was Playing my guitar with a smile, as the camera panned across my face, with my eyes locked in a chronic gawking stare aimed directly at her lower backside. I was mesmerized

What a wonderful view I had. lol

You're a guitarist Buzz? You really should talk more, having played backup for Sonny and Cher is kinda a big thing about yourself to never have mentioned.