WHO WINS? Tyson Fury vs. Anthony Joshua

[mickey1975]

Morning, Dirk.

[Nightmare Roy]

I think the biggest question mark is over what actually is 'prime Fury' and can he get it back. Because it seems that the Klitschko fight has largely overshadowed what was a very good, if flawed, career. Whilst Fury may have looked the part against Hammer and Chisora in the fights before Klitschko, he was shocking shape for his fight before those, against an opponent as limited as Joey Abell, and before that was being sat on his backside and easily found by career cruiserweight Steve Cunningham.

This is why I don't really buy the mythology of Fury being some elite boxer. He's come out with the old bag of rice to hit me line this past week - but he's only had four fights since Cunningham decked him. And regardless of how you rate the Klitschko win for either, it seems pretty obvious that Whyte, Martin, Breazeale, Molina, Takam and Parker represent a sterner test than Hammer, Chisora, Cunningham, Abell and Johnson.

So you’re basically saying it has all come together in his last three fights, but let’s look beyond them, back to his learning fights!

No. I'm saying that rating Fury as some barely hittable heavyweight genius on the basis of one fight doesn't really add up. You have to be able to look at a fighter's career as a whole and recognise that there are fights when boxers can look great and others when the same fighter looks terrible. Take Mayweather himself; certainly didn't look an all time great first time against Maidana, but absolutely did against Canelo.

The trouble with Fury is that he's only fought one top drawer opponent in his career, and he won a close fight where two punches landed per minute beat one punch landed per minute. So if he maintains that standard forever then good for him, but history tells us this doesn't happen and performance can fluctuate. Also, it's not that much evidence.

To be fair to Fury, he also put a clinic on Chisora who Whyte had a life and death with, if he can reach his previous form, he will be hard work for anyone

[stujones]

I found it odd that Paddy Power seem to have put up a date 30th June (which is a Saturday) for Joshua vs Fury.... this isn't one of their end of year things for potential fights - it is positioned on their website before Pac vs Matthese as an example.... Surely, surrely not - but nothing really would surprise me with Tyson to ask for a quick tune up to get a ranking and then go for Joshua.

[stujones]

So you’re basically saying it has all come together in his last three fights, but let’s look beyond them, back to his learning fights!

No. I'm saying that rating Fury as some barely hittable heavyweight genius on the basis of one fight doesn't really add up. You have to be able to look at a fighter's career as a whole and recognise that there are fights when boxers can look great and others when the same fighter looks terrible. Take Mayweather himself; certainly didn't look an all time great first time against Maidana, but absolutely did against Canelo.

The trouble with Fury is that he's only fought one top drawer opponent in his career, and he won a close fight where two punches landed per minute beat one punch landed per minute. So if he maintains that standard forever then good for him, but history tells us this doesn't happen and performance can fluctuate. Also, it's not that much evidence.

To be fair to Fury, he also put a clinic on Chisora who Whyte had a life and death with, if he can reach his previous form, he will be hard work for anyone

Chisora was fat in fight 1 and there were huge rumours about his health in fight 2.

I agree with the post, Fury has had 1 fight in true world class - and that for me was not the masterclass it has sinced been hyped to be.... I think the reason why this has been now hailed as something a bit special was because he was such a big outsider in the first place..... and the reason why he was such a big outsider was because of his struggles (McDermott x 2, Cunnigham etc) at a far far lower level. Fury wasn't given a chance against Klitchsko for a reason.

[mickey1975]

Plus the ease Klit whacked AJ with has also increased admiration of Tyson’s master class.

[dirk2686]

To be fair to Fury, he also put a clinic on Chisora who Whyte had a life and death with, if he can reach his previous form, he will be hard work for anyone

True enough, but that's the thing with Fury. We have no evidence of what he's like for years, and we have one fight where he's beaten an elite opponent with major question marks over it. As I said before, if you're judging Mayweather having only seen the Maidana fight (first one) you aren't rating him anywhere near the elite. Do the same with the Canelo fight and you think he's fantastic.

I think the fairest way to judge the Klitschko fight was a close, deserved, low action fight. For me it is absolutely not the masterclass people pretend it to be, and Fury probably isn't the elite operator some pretend him to be because for the rest of his career he didn't fit that bill at all.

[mickey1975]

To be fair to Fury, he also put a clinic on Chisora who Whyte had a life and death with, if he can reach his previous form, he will be hard work for anyone

True enough, but that's the thing with Fury. We have no evidence of what he's like for years, and we have one fight where he's beaten an elite opponent with major question marks over it. As I said before, if you're judging Mayweather having only seen the Maidana fight (first one) you aren't rating him anywhere near the elite. Do the same with the Canelo fight and you think he's fantastic.

I think the fairest way to judge the Klitschko fight was a close, deserved, low action fight. For me it is absolutely not the masterclass people pretend it to be, and Fury probably isn't the elite operator some pretend him to be because for the rest of his career he didn't fit that bill at all.

Despite the fact his one elite win was against a long time undefeated, elite, heavyweight champion of the world? Would one win against Mayweather have made Berto elite?

[Bard of Boxrec]

To be fair to Fury, he also put a clinic on Chisora who Whyte had a life and death with, if he can reach his previous form, he will be hard work for anyone

True enough, but that's the thing with Fury. We have no evidence of what he's like for years, and we have one fight where he's beaten an elite opponent with major question marks over it. As I said before, if you're judging Mayweather having only seen the Maidana fight (first one) you aren't rating him anywhere near the elite. Do the same with the Canelo fight and you think he's fantastic.

I think the fairest way to judge the Klitschko fight was a close, deserved, low action fight. For me it is absolutely not the masterclass people pretend it to be, and Fury probably isn't the elite operator some pretend him to be because for the rest of his career he didn't fit that bill at all.

To be fair it's only a select few chuckleheads who deem it a masterclass.

[Rob3_142]

Plus the ease Klit whacked AJ with has also increased admiration of Tyson’s master class.

Come on Mickey, behave. You know as well as any self respecting boxing fan that styles make fights. You cannot compare the two fights, as they contained very different style fighters (as well as an arguably different Klitschko).

[mickey1975]

Plus the ease Klit whacked AJ with has also increased admiration of Tyson’s master class.

Come on Mickey, behave. You know as well as any self respecting boxing fan that styles make fights. You cannot compare the two fights, as they contained very different style fighters (as well as an arguably different Klitschko).

Yes, Fury faced a much better version on his own soil.

[wesshaw1985]

Plus the ease Klit whacked AJ with has also increased admiration of Tyson’s master class.

Come on Mickey, behave. You know as well as any self respecting boxing fan that styles make fights. You cannot compare the two fights, as they contained very different style fighters (as well as an arguably different Klitschko).

Yes, Fury faced a much better version on his own soil.

[Rob3_142]

Come on guys, what can you possibly be basing that on?

[mickey1975]

Come on guys, what can you possibly be basing that on?

Wlad is based in Germany, AJ in London, both have been for years. Tyson fought Wlad in Germany, AJ fought him in London.
Wlad was undefeated for years and champ when he faced Fury. He was coming off a loss and had been inactive for 18 months when he faced AJ.
That’s exactly what I’m basing it on.

[wesshaw1985]

Come on guys, what can you possibly be basing that on?

basing what on?
That Fury beat a better version of Wlad on his home soil?

Wlad went into the Fury fight on a 22 fight winning streak. Fighting twice a year, year after year. Defeating 5 undefeated fighters in his previous 6 fights. Names including Pulev and Povetkin amongst those he defeated.
Fury went to Germany and beat him.

Wlad then took a year and a half off following the Fury loss before next facing Joshua in a life and death battle in Joshuas backyard.

I guess that's what I'm basing it on...

[TheLeprechaun]

No. I'm saying that rating Fury as some barely hittable heavyweight genius on the basis of one fight doesn't really add up. You have to be able to look at a fighter's career as a whole and recognise that there are fights when boxers can look great and others when the same fighter looks terrible. Take Mayweather himself; certainly didn't look an all time great first time against Maidana, but absolutely did against Canelo.

The trouble with Fury is that he's only fought one top drawer opponent in his career, and he won a close fight where two punches landed per minute beat one punch landed per minute. So if he maintains that standard forever then good for him, but history tells us this doesn't happen and performance can fluctuate. Also, it's not that much evidence.

To be fair to Fury, he also put a clinic on Chisora who Whyte had a life and death with, if he can reach his previous form, he will be hard work for anyone

Chisora was fat in fight 1 and there were huge rumours about his health in fight 2.

I agree with the post, Fury has had 1 fight in true world class - and that for me was not the masterclass it has sinced been hyped to be.... I think the reason why this has been now hailed as something a bit special was because he was such a big outsider in the first place..... and the reason why he was such a big outsider was because of his struggles (McDermott x 2, Cunnigham etc) at a far far lower level. Fury wasn't given a chance against Klitchsko for a reason.

Agreed. And the klitschko fight was close! It wasnt a masterclass at all. It was a fight that the bookies were happy to give 5/4 on fury after the final bell.

They werent giving 5/4 on mayweather after the final bell vs berto.

[wesshaw1985]

Come on guys, what can you possibly be basing that on?

Wlad is based in Germany, AJ in London, both have been for years. Tyson fought Wlad in Germany, AJ fought him in London.
Wlad was undefeated for years and champ when he faced Fury. He was coming off a loss and had been inactive for 18 months when he faced AJ.
That’s exactly what I’m basing it on.

Spot on

[nitro5912]

Come on guys, what can you possibly be basing that on?

Wlad is based in Germany, AJ in London, both have been for years. Tyson fought Wlad in Germany, AJ fought him in London.
Wlad was undefeated for years and champ when he faced Fury. He was coming off a loss and had been inactive for 18 months when he faced AJ.
That’s exactly what I’m basing it on.

He had hardly been inactive, he had 3 training camps back to back in that period. Inactive is what fury has been. Massive difference IMO.

Let's also not forget the outside problems wlad was also dealing with like his wife suffering post natal depression when he fought Tyson.

Tyson beat wlad fair and square, it wasn't a masterclass it was a close fight that 2 judges scored 115-112. That's not a boxing clinic in anyones eyes.

[mickey1975]

Come on guys, what can you possibly be basing that on?

Wlad is based in Germany, AJ in London, both have been for years. Tyson fought Wlad in Germany, AJ fought him in London.
Wlad was undefeated for years and champ when he faced Fury. He was coming off a loss and had been inactive for 18 months when he faced AJ.
That’s exactly what I’m basing it on.

He had hardly been inactive, he had 3 training camps back to back in that period. Inactive is what fury has been. Massive difference IMO.

Let's also not forget the outside problems wlad was also dealing with like his wife suffering post natal depression when he fought Tyson.

Tyson beat wlad fair and square, it wasn't a masterclass it was a close fight that 2 judges scored 115-112. That's not a boxing clinic in anyones eyes.

Ward-Froch was close on the cards... that was a schooling, too.

[Oiky]

Tyson did school Wlad

Regardless of what the scorecards say

[dirk2686]

You're never going to school someone landing so few shots. It's like saying a football team hammered another 2-1 and had five shots to two.

[mickey1975]

You're never going to school someone landing so few shots. It's like saying a football team hammered another 2-1 and had five shots to two.

Morning, Dirk.

[nitro5912]

Wlad is based in Germany, AJ in London, both have been for years. Tyson fought Wlad in Germany, AJ fought him in London.
Wlad was undefeated for years and champ when he faced Fury. He was coming off a loss and had been inactive for 18 months when he faced AJ.
That’s exactly what I’m basing it on.

He had hardly been inactive, he had 3 training camps back to back in that period. Inactive is what fury has been. Massive difference IMO.

Let's also not forget the outside problems wlad was also dealing with like his wife suffering post natal depression when he fought Tyson.

Tyson beat wlad fair and square, it wasn't a masterclass it was a close fight that 2 judges scored 115-112. That's not a boxing clinic in anyones eyes.

Ward-Froch was close on the cards... that was a schooling, too.

That was a masterclass, fury v wlad wasn't.

Ward completely dominated and it wasn't close, fury v wlad could have and many thought have gone to wlad(not me I thought fury nicked it).

But it wasn't a masterclass or a boxing lesson. It was a close fight. The way it is made out to be, it was the most one sided fight is ludicrous.

[mickey1975]

People thought it would go to Wlad because it was in Germany. If Wlad did what Tyson did, people would have expected a shutout. I’m out in this subject now, 30 months is a long enough argument for me. Bye lads x

[dirk2686]

People thought it would go to Wlad because it was in Germany. If Wlad did what Tyson did, people would have expected a shutout. I’m out in this subject now, 30 months is a long enough argument for me. Bye lads x

People also thought it would go to Wlad because Fury landed about three more punches per round and had the point taken off.

I thought Fury won but lots of rounds ended and you thought 'that was dire - how do you pick a winner.' There's only so far you can go with your masterclass if you're landing pretty much nothing and so is your opponent.