Tyson

[keithmoonhangover]

I’m not defending him he looked crap. But I also don’t think he treated it with the same focus as he would a title fight. If Muhammad Ali fought Ngannou how do you expect that to go as he would’ve had massive disadvantages in height, weight and reach and chances of him sparking Ngannou like AJ are quite remote so likely a distance fight. I just don’t think it’s beyond the realms of possibility that if Ngannou landed he would’ve hurt Ali as well.

While Ali was at the top? You're really asking me this question? Height and weight? Ali completely dominated Ron Lyle, who was only an inch shorter. Come on, stop being silly.

Not a silly question at all. I didn't say Ali would lose, I'm saying he wouldn't find it a walk in the park either and if Ngannou landed it would hurt as much as being hit by a 'professional' HW. Or if Ngannou landed on Floyd Patterson are you saying just because he isn't a pro that nothing would happen?

It would be a walk in the park. Ali took a prime George Foreman's best punches. Ifhe landed on Patterson, it wouldn't be cleanly,

The topic was 90's Ngannou would have been obliterated by Lewis, Tyson, Bowe, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Moorer, Morrison, Mercer, Holyfield, Briggs and 90's Foreman. Christ, he'd have been demolished by Herbie Hide and Michael Bentt and many, many more.

If you offered to give me a million pounds if I picked a winner between Francis Ngannou and a prime Bobby Crabtree, I'd pick Bobby, by stoppage.

[Controversial]

While Ali was at the top? You're really asking me this question? Height and weight? Ali completely dominated Ron Lyle, who was only an inch shorter. Come on, stop being silly.

Not a silly question at all. I didn't say Ali would lose, I'm saying he wouldn't find it a walk in the park either and if Ngannou landed it would hurt as much as being hit by a 'professional' HW. Or if Ngannou landed on Floyd Patterson are you saying just because he isn't a pro that nothing would happen?

It would be a walk in the park. Ali took a prime George Foreman's best punches. Ifhe landed on Patterson, it wouldn't be cleanly,

The topic was 90's Ngannou would have been obliterated by Lewis, Tyson, Bowe, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Moorer, Morrison, Mercer, Holyfield, Briggs and 90's Foreman. Christ, he'd have been demolished by Herbie Hide and Michael Bentt and many, many more.

If you offered to give me a million pounds if I picked a winner between Francis Ngannou and a prime Bobby Crabtree, I'd pick Bobby, by stoppage.

We are talking about a non title fight that was seen by most as a glorified exhibition. One where Ngannou trained his arse off for and Fury looked like he'd hardly trained. Ali rarely took exhibitions or sparring that serious so I wouldn't expect Ali to walk into the ring with Ngannou in the same condition and mindset as he did when he fought Foreman or Frazier. And I don't see him sparking him out either or not being hit at some point.

[keithmoonhangover]

Not a silly question at all. I didn't say Ali would lose, I'm saying he wouldn't find it a walk in the park either and if Ngannou landed it would hurt as much as being hit by a 'professional' HW. Or if Ngannou landed on Floyd Patterson are you saying just because he isn't a pro that nothing would happen?

It would be a walk in the park. Ali took a prime George Foreman's best punches. Ifhe landed on Patterson, it wouldn't be cleanly,

The topic was 90's Ngannou would have been obliterated by Lewis, Tyson, Bowe, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Moorer, Morrison, Mercer, Holyfield, Briggs and 90's Foreman. Christ, he'd have been demolished by Herbie Hide and Michael Bentt and many, many more.

If you offered to give me a million pounds if I picked a winner between Francis Ngannou and a prime Bobby Crabtree, I'd pick Bobby, by stoppage.

We are talking about a non title fight that was seen by most as a glorified exhibition. One where Ngannou trained his arse off for and Fury looked like he'd hardly trained. Ali rarely took exhibitions or sparring that serious so I wouldn't expect Ali to walk into the ring with Ngannou in the same condition and mindset as he did when he fought Foreman or Frazier. And I don't see him sparking him out either or not being hit at some point.

But it wasn't an exhibition and neither was his fight with AJ and we both know how that ended.

Are you suggesting that one of the two best heavyweights in the history of the sport would have more problems with a non boxer than Anthony Joshua?

[Controversial]

It would be a walk in the park. Ali took a prime George Foreman's best punches. Ifhe landed on Patterson, it wouldn't be cleanly,

The topic was 90's Ngannou would have been obliterated by Lewis, Tyson, Bowe, Tua, Ibeabuchi, Moorer, Morrison, Mercer, Holyfield, Briggs and 90's Foreman. Christ, he'd have been demolished by Herbie Hide and Michael Bentt and many, many more.

If you offered to give me a million pounds if I picked a winner between Francis Ngannou and a prime Bobby Crabtree, I'd pick Bobby, by stoppage.

We are talking about a non title fight that was seen by most as a glorified exhibition. One where Ngannou trained his arse off for and Fury looked like he'd hardly trained. Ali rarely took exhibitions or sparring that serious so I wouldn't expect Ali to walk into the ring with Ngannou in the same condition and mindset as he did when he fought Foreman or Frazier. And I don't see him sparking him out either or not being hit at some point.

But it wasn't an exhibition and neither was his fight with AJ and we both know how that ended.

Are you suggesting that one of the two best heavyweights in the history of the sport would have more problems with a non boxer than Anthony Joshua?

No you are missing my point. It was classed as a real fight but in reality no one gave Ngannou a chance and it was seen as a glorified exhibition / cash grab. In my opinion Fury didn’t go into that fight expecting anything other than an easy nights work and almost came unstuck. AJ is a different fighter to Fury, he’s a big puncher and had a point to prove after seeing Ngannou wasn’t as bad as people expected him to be. Even if Fury tried his hardest I doubt he’d have stopped Ngannou, he doesn’t land big enough shots at the best of times. Hence my comparison with Ali who also wasn’t a big puncher and also didn’t train and focus the same for every fight. I wouldn’t expect Ali to take Ngannou too serious either and chances are he’d struggle to stop him too.

[keithmoonhangover]

We are talking about a non title fight that was seen by most as a glorified exhibition. One where Ngannou trained his arse off for and Fury looked like he'd hardly trained. Ali rarely took exhibitions or sparring that serious so I wouldn't expect Ali to walk into the ring with Ngannou in the same condition and mindset as he did when he fought Foreman or Frazier. And I don't see him sparking him out either or not being hit at some point.

But it wasn't an exhibition and neither was his fight with AJ and we both know how that ended.

Are you suggesting that one of the two best heavyweights in the history of the sport would have more problems with a non boxer than Anthony Joshua?

No you are missing my point. It was classed as a real fight but in reality no one gave Ngannou a chance and it was seen as a glorified exhibition / cash grab. In my opinion Fury didn’t go into that fight expecting anything other than an easy nights work and almost came unstuck. AJ is a different fighter to Fury, he’s a big puncher and had a point to prove after seeing Ngannou wasn’t as bad as people expected him to be. Even if Fury tried his hardest I doubt he’d have stopped Ngannou, he doesn’t land big enough shots at the best of times. Hence my comparison with Ali who also wasn’t a big puncher and also didn’t train and focus the same for every fight. I wouldn’t expect Ali to take Ngannou too serious either and chances are he’d struggle to stop him too.

Put the crack pipe down, please, it's for the best.

[Controversial]

But it wasn't an exhibition and neither was his fight with AJ and we both know how that ended.

Are you suggesting that one of the two best heavyweights in the history of the sport would have more problems with a non boxer than Anthony Joshua?

No you are missing my point. It was classed as a real fight but in reality no one gave Ngannou a chance and it was seen as a glorified exhibition / cash grab. In my opinion Fury didn’t go into that fight expecting anything other than an easy nights work and almost came unstuck. AJ is a different fighter to Fury, he’s a big puncher and had a point to prove after seeing Ngannou wasn’t as bad as people expected him to be. Even if Fury tried his hardest I doubt he’d have stopped Ngannou, he doesn’t land big enough shots at the best of times. Hence my comparison with Ali who also wasn’t a big puncher and also didn’t train and focus the same for every fight. I wouldn’t expect Ali to take Ngannou too serious either and chances are he’d struggle to stop him too.

Put the crack pipe down, please, it's for the best.

That’s a lazy response to a genuine question. You can’t base Fury’s entire career on his performance against Ngannou. Like you can’t compare Ali’s career to fighs he looked poor in. I’m no Fury fan, he’s definitely on the slide but I wouldn’t write him off beating Usyk in the rematch, if he does win then are we saying Usyk is crap too? How would you expect Ali and Ngannou to go if it were the same situation and he was an unknown entity, you think Ali would train his arse off and treat him like Foreman or come in a bit out of shape expecting an easy nights work ?

[keithmoonhangover]

No you are missing my point. It was classed as a real fight but in reality no one gave Ngannou a chance and it was seen as a glorified exhibition / cash grab. In my opinion Fury didn’t go into that fight expecting anything other than an easy nights work and almost came unstuck. AJ is a different fighter to Fury, he’s a big puncher and had a point to prove after seeing Ngannou wasn’t as bad as people expected him to be. Even if Fury tried his hardest I doubt he’d have stopped Ngannou, he doesn’t land big enough shots at the best of times. Hence my comparison with Ali who also wasn’t a big puncher and also didn’t train and focus the same for every fight. I wouldn’t expect Ali to take Ngannou too serious either and chances are he’d struggle to stop him too.

Put the crack pipe down, please, it's for the best.

That’s a lazy response to a genuine question. You can’t base Fury’s entire career on his performance against Ngannou. Like you can’t compare Ali’s career to fighs he looked poor in. I’m no Fury fan, he’s definitely on the slide but I wouldn’t write him off beating Usyk in the rematch, if he does win then are we saying Usyk is crap too? How would you expect Ali and Ngannou to go if it were the same situation and he was an unknown entity, you think Ali would train his arse off and treat him like Foreman or come in a bit out of shape expecting an easy nights work ?

If Ali was getting paid the amount that Fury was got, was close to his prime, he would be in good shape and would completely box Ngannou's head off.

Fury struggled with McDermott and Steve Cunningham. No way in the world Ali struggles with anyone like that.

[Controversial]

Put the crack pipe down, please, it's for the best.

That’s a lazy response to a genuine question. You can’t base Fury’s entire career on his performance against Ngannou. Like you can’t compare Ali’s career to fighs he looked poor in. I’m no Fury fan, he’s definitely on the slide but I wouldn’t write him off beating Usyk in the rematch, if he does win then are we saying Usyk is crap too? How would you expect Ali and Ngannou to go if it were the same situation and he was an unknown entity, you think Ali would train his arse off and treat him like Foreman or come in a bit out of shape expecting an easy nights work ?

If Ali was getting paid the amount that Fury was got, was close to his prime, he would be in good shape and would completely box Ngannou's head off.

Fury struggled with McDermott and Steve Cunningham. No way in the world Ali struggles with anyone like that.

Im not so sure it’ll be that one sided, Ali would beat him of course but likely go the distance. Ali didn’t spar or fight exhibitions full pelt and I don’t see why he would treat Ngannou as anything other than a novice, in which case he would more likely fight like he did in exhibitions, lay on the ropes, let guys hit him in the belly etc. To say he’d suddenly take Ngannou deadly serious, whip himself into the greatest condition, skip around the ring and punch Ngannou around the ring without taking any punches back is unlikely in my opinion. Ali lifted his game to match the opponent, Fury is similar. A punch from Ngannou is gonna hurt, the fact he was a novice is irrelevant, he wasn’t a YouTuber, he has been training and competing in combat sports at the highest level for many years. Fury didn’t have the power or strength to stop him.

[keithmoonhangover]

That’s a lazy response to a genuine question. You can’t base Fury’s entire career on his performance against Ngannou. Like you can’t compare Ali’s career to fighs he looked poor in. I’m no Fury fan, he’s definitely on the slide but I wouldn’t write him off beating Usyk in the rematch, if he does win then are we saying Usyk is crap too? How would you expect Ali and Ngannou to go if it were the same situation and he was an unknown entity, you think Ali would train his arse off and treat him like Foreman or come in a bit out of shape expecting an easy nights work ?

If Ali was getting paid the amount that Fury was got, was close to his prime, he would be in good shape and would completely box Ngannou's head off.

Fury struggled with McDermott and Steve Cunningham. No way in the world Ali struggles with anyone like that.

Im not so sure it’ll be that one sided, Ali would beat him of course but likely go the distance. Ali didn’t spar or fight exhibitions full pelt and I don’t see why he would treat Ngannou as anything other than a novice, in which case he would more likely fight like he did in exhibitions, lay on the ropes, let guys hit him in the belly etc. To say he’d suddenly take Ngannou deadly serious, whip himself into the greatest condition, skip around the ring and punch Ngannou around the ring without taking any punches back is unlikely in my opinion. Ali lifted his game to match the opponent, Fury is similar. A punch from Ngannou is gonna hurt, the fact he was a novice is irrelevant, he wasn’t a YouTuber, he has been training and competing in combat sports at the highest level for many years. Fury didn’t have the power or strength to stop him.

Ali's exhibitions were just that, they were exhibitions which weren't supposed to be competitive. Both Ngannou's fights were set out to be competitive and they were. Ali's exhibitions were completely different to Ngannou's fights. In Ali's exhibition opponents with zero boxing experience weren't trying to take his head off. Ngannou was trying to take Fury's head off, that's why he knocked him down. If Ali had fought Ngannou as a tune up to arguably the biggest fight of his career in a sanctioned boxing contest. Francis wouldn't have laid a glove on him.

[Controversial]

If Ali was getting paid the amount that Fury was got, was close to his prime, he would be in good shape and would completely box Ngannou's head off.

Fury struggled with McDermott and Steve Cunningham. No way in the world Ali struggles with anyone like that.

Im not so sure it’ll be that one sided, Ali would beat him of course but likely go the distance. Ali didn’t spar or fight exhibitions full pelt and I don’t see why he would treat Ngannou as anything other than a novice, in which case he would more likely fight like he did in exhibitions, lay on the ropes, let guys hit him in the belly etc. To say he’d suddenly take Ngannou deadly serious, whip himself into the greatest condition, skip around the ring and punch Ngannou around the ring without taking any punches back is unlikely in my opinion. Ali lifted his game to match the opponent, Fury is similar. A punch from Ngannou is gonna hurt, the fact he was a novice is irrelevant, he wasn’t a YouTuber, he has been training and competing in combat sports at the highest level for many years. Fury didn’t have the power or strength to stop him.

Ali's exhibitions were just that, they were exhibitions which weren't supposed to be competitive. Both Ngannou's fights were set out to be competitive and they were. Ali's exhibitions were completely different to Ngannou's fights. In Ali's exhibition opponents with zero boxing experience weren't trying to take his head off. Ngannou was trying to take Fury's head off, that's why he knocked him down. If Ali had fought Ngannou as a tune up to arguably the biggest fight of his career in a sanctioned boxing contest. Francis wouldn't have laid a glove on him.

The fact it was recorded as an official fight means little. Mayweather and McGregor was too but everyone knew it was a cash grab and Mayweather admitted later he hardly trained for it. I don’t think Fury went into that fight expecting a hard night, let’s face it who gave Ngannou any chance. Ali wasn’t unhittable and didn’t always look great in fights, he often raised his game to the level of the opponent. So I don’t believe Ali would take Ngannou that serious, maybe he would after seeing what he done to Fury but making his debut I think he would have gone through the motions and I think he’d struggle to stop him being the smaller and weaker guy. If Ali took him deadly serious he would still do rounds against him, so the same kind of flak could be thrown at Ali, how come a fighter with zero fights went X amount of rounds with the greatest HW in history. Unless you are saying Ali was so great he’d knock him out with one punch in the first 5 seconds.

[keithmoonhangover]

Im not so sure it’ll be that one sided, Ali would beat him of course but likely go the distance. Ali didn’t spar or fight exhibitions full pelt and I don’t see why he would treat Ngannou as anything other than a novice, in which case he would more likely fight like he did in exhibitions, lay on the ropes, let guys hit him in the belly etc. To say he’d suddenly take Ngannou deadly serious, whip himself into the greatest condition, skip around the ring and punch Ngannou around the ring without taking any punches back is unlikely in my opinion. Ali lifted his game to match the opponent, Fury is similar. A punch from Ngannou is gonna hurt, the fact he was a novice is irrelevant, he wasn’t a YouTuber, he has been training and competing in combat sports at the highest level for many years. Fury didn’t have the power or strength to stop him.

Ali's exhibitions were just that, they were exhibitions which weren't supposed to be competitive. Both Ngannou's fights were set out to be competitive and they were. Ali's exhibitions were completely different to Ngannou's fights. In Ali's exhibition opponents with zero boxing experience weren't trying to take his head off. Ngannou was trying to take Fury's head off, that's why he knocked him down. If Ali had fought Ngannou as a tune up to arguably the biggest fight of his career in a sanctioned boxing contest. Francis wouldn't have laid a glove on him.

The fact it was recorded as an official fight means little. Mayweather and McGregor was too but everyone knew it was a cash grab and Mayweather admitted later he hardly trained for it. I don’t think Fury went into that fight expecting a hard night, let’s face it who gave Ngannou any chance. Ali wasn’t unhittable and didn’t always look great in fights, he often raised his game to the level of the opponent. So I don’t believe Ali would take Ngannou that serious, maybe he would after seeing what he done to Fury but making his debut I think he would have gone through the motions and I think he’d struggle to stop him being the smaller and weaker guy. If Ali took him deadly serious he would still do rounds against him, so the same kind of flak could be thrown at Ali, how come a fighter with zero fights went X amount of rounds with the greatest HW in history. Unless you are saying Ali was so great he’d knock him out with one punch in the first 5 seconds.

Ali would toy with Ngannou, avoiding his crude swings and landing almost at will until Ngannou hits the floor or the corner throw in the towel. Ali stopped Foreman and Lyle and there is absolutely no reason to suggest he wouldn't do the same to a non boxer.

[Controversial]

Ali's exhibitions were just that, they were exhibitions which weren't supposed to be competitive. Both Ngannou's fights were set out to be competitive and they were. Ali's exhibitions were completely different to Ngannou's fights. In Ali's exhibition opponents with zero boxing experience weren't trying to take his head off. Ngannou was trying to take Fury's head off, that's why he knocked him down. If Ali had fought Ngannou as a tune up to arguably the biggest fight of his career in a sanctioned boxing contest. Francis wouldn't have laid a glove on him.

The fact it was recorded as an official fight means little. Mayweather and McGregor was too but everyone knew it was a cash grab and Mayweather admitted later he hardly trained for it. I don’t think Fury went into that fight expecting a hard night, let’s face it who gave Ngannou any chance. Ali wasn’t unhittable and didn’t always look great in fights, he often raised his game to the level of the opponent. So I don’t believe Ali would take Ngannou that serious, maybe he would after seeing what he done to Fury but making his debut I think he would have gone through the motions and I think he’d struggle to stop him being the smaller and weaker guy. If Ali took him deadly serious he would still do rounds against him, so the same kind of flak could be thrown at Ali, how come a fighter with zero fights went X amount of rounds with the greatest HW in history. Unless you are saying Ali was so great he’d knock him out with one punch in the first 5 seconds.

Ali would toy with Ngannou, avoiding his crude swings and landing almost at will until Ngannou hits the floor or the corner throw in the towel. Ali stopped Foreman and Lyle and there is absolutely no reason to suggest he wouldn't do the same to a non boxer.

Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. It’s easy to think fights will be one sided but how many times have they not been or ended up as an upset. Even if he went 6 rounds you could argue how was that possible for a novice to go 6 rounds with the greatest HW in history? Loads of predictions on fights end up being wrong we only have to look on here or from the so called boxing experts in the press. Most of Ali’s opponents were smaller than him or practically the same size so who knows how he’d fair against someone 5 stone heavier, physically stronger and harder punching. And if Ngannou did land a huge punch regardless of what you think it would hurt Ali, that fact he was a novice means little.

[keithmoonhangover]

The fact it was recorded as an official fight means little. Mayweather and McGregor was too but everyone knew it was a cash grab and Mayweather admitted later he hardly trained for it. I don’t think Fury went into that fight expecting a hard night, let’s face it who gave Ngannou any chance. Ali wasn’t unhittable and didn’t always look great in fights, he often raised his game to the level of the opponent. So I don’t believe Ali would take Ngannou that serious, maybe he would after seeing what he done to Fury but making his debut I think he would have gone through the motions and I think he’d struggle to stop him being the smaller and weaker guy. If Ali took him deadly serious he would still do rounds against him, so the same kind of flak could be thrown at Ali, how come a fighter with zero fights went X amount of rounds with the greatest HW in history. Unless you are saying Ali was so great he’d knock him out with one punch in the first 5 seconds.

Ali would toy with Ngannou, avoiding his crude swings and landing almost at will until Ngannou hits the floor or the corner throw in the towel. Ali stopped Foreman and Lyle and there is absolutely no reason to suggest he wouldn't do the same to a non boxer.

Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. It’s easy to think fights will be one sided but how many times have they not been or ended up as an upset. Even if he went 6 rounds you could argue how was that possible for a novice to go 6 rounds with the greatest HW in history? Loads of predictions on fights end up being wrong we only have to look on here or from the so called boxing experts in the press. Most of Ali’s opponents were smaller than him or practically the same size so who knows how he’d fair against someone 5 stone heavier, physically stronger and harder punching. And if Ngannou did land a huge punch regardless of what you think it would hurt Ali, that fact he was a novice means little.

I like the way you ignore the Foreman and Lyle comparisons.

[Controversial]

Ali would toy with Ngannou, avoiding his crude swings and landing almost at will until Ngannou hits the floor or the corner throw in the towel. Ali stopped Foreman and Lyle and there is absolutely no reason to suggest he wouldn't do the same to a non boxer.

Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. It’s easy to think fights will be one sided but how many times have they not been or ended up as an upset. Even if he went 6 rounds you could argue how was that possible for a novice to go 6 rounds with the greatest HW in history? Loads of predictions on fights end up being wrong we only have to look on here or from the so called boxing experts in the press. Most of Ali’s opponents were smaller than him or practically the same size so who knows how he’d fair against someone 5 stone heavier, physically stronger and harder punching. And if Ngannou did land a huge punch regardless of what you think it would hurt Ali, that fact he was a novice means little.

I like the way you ignore the Foreman and Lyle comparisons.

I’ve already said how I think Ali would approach a fight against a complete novice, not the same way as he would a world title fight that’s for sure.
You seem to think he’d treat Ngannou as a threat, I think he’d see him as an easy nights work and train and fight accordingly. That’s how I think Fury treated him.

[keithmoonhangover]

Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't. It’s easy to think fights will be one sided but how many times have they not been or ended up as an upset. Even if he went 6 rounds you could argue how was that possible for a novice to go 6 rounds with the greatest HW in history? Loads of predictions on fights end up being wrong we only have to look on here or from the so called boxing experts in the press. Most of Ali’s opponents were smaller than him or practically the same size so who knows how he’d fair against someone 5 stone heavier, physically stronger and harder punching. And if Ngannou did land a huge punch regardless of what you think it would hurt Ali, that fact he was a novice means little.

I like the way you ignore the Foreman and Lyle comparisons.

I’ve already said how I think Ali would approach a fight against a complete novice, not the same way as he would a world title fight that’s for sure.
You seem to think he’d treat Ngannou as a threat, I think he’d see him as an easy nights work and train and fight accordingly. That’s how I think Fury treated him.

In a professional, sanctioned contest, which was a tune up for arguably his biggest fight, yes, Ali would train properly.

Muhammad Ali was not Tyson Fury. He didn't drink and drug his way into oblivion, he trained, he was always in shape, no matter who he fought and how much of a threat they were. Comparing Fury's preparation to those of arguably the best heavyweight ever is somewhere between stupidity and madness.

[Controversial]

I like the way you ignore the Foreman and Lyle comparisons.

I’ve already said how I think Ali would approach a fight against a complete novice, not the same way as he would a world title fight that’s for sure.
You seem to think he’d treat Ngannou as a threat, I think he’d see him as an easy nights work and train and fight accordingly. That’s how I think Fury treated him.

In a professional, sanctioned contest, which was a tune up for arguably his biggest fight, yes, Ali would train properly.

Muhammad Ali was not Tyson Fury. He didn't drink and drug his way into oblivion, he trained, he was always in shape, no matter who he fought and how much of a threat they were. Comparing Fury's preparation to those of arguably the best heavyweight ever is somewhere between stupidity and madness.

We have to agree to disagree then because Ali didn’t always look great, some of them title fights. Like a lot of fighters he rose to the occasion when needed but could look average in the less meaningful bouts. So why he would suddenly take a complete novice serious is unlikely in my opinion when he didn’t take all his pro fights that way. At the end of the day Fury looked awful, he often doesn’t look great at the best of times but to base his entire career on that fight is ludicrous. In the same way we don't look at Ali's title fight with the smaller and far less experienced Evangelista where he looked poor and was widely criticised for looking bad but claim that was his level. Fury has never been a big hitter or someone to go looking for a KO, even if he trained his arse off he’d still struggle to stop Ngannou but he still gave Usyk a close fight and could potentially beat him in the rematch. Different fights, different motivations and different perceived level of difficulty. Ngannou would have done rounds against Ali in a 10 rounder even as a novice and potentially even have gone the distance with him, even if he was widely outpointed, I just don't see Ali sparking Ngannou quickly like AJ did because Ali never really knocked anyone out cold with one punch, even guys much smaller than him, much the same way Fury rarely sparked anyone with one punch.

[Jakub079]

Attention, summary!
Let's find the second boxer in the ENTIRE history of boxing who, at the age of 23, will be a two-time boxer of the year of The Ring, will be 37-0, will have 3 heavyweight belts, will have 10 title fights, will have two ATG wins under his belt and it will be so dominated. And then let's say that his fame is good marketing

[keithmoonhangover]

Attention, summary!
Let's find the second boxer in the ENTIRE history of boxing who, at the age of 23, will be a two-time boxer of the year of The Ring, will be 37-0, will have 3 heavyweight belts, will have 10 title fights, will have two ATG wins under his belt and it will be so dominated. And then let's say that his fame is good marketing

[Cojimar 1946]

If you think the division sucks now how can you claim the 1990s were a strong era

Because the then WBC Heavyweight Champion of the world, Tyson Fury got dropped and almost lost to a debutant with zero amateur fights. When did that happen to any top 90's heavyweight? Just name it and I'll concede that you are infinitely more wise than I.

Fury was years removed from his prime and a good 30 pounds overweight, a shadow of the fighter he was at his peak 8 years earlier so I wouldn't say its a comparable situation to Holyfield-Moorer or Tyson-Douglas. Moreover Fury won the fight most people seeing it as a clear 7-3 victory. We also don't know how good Ngannou is as he's had so few fights. He got taken out by AJ but AJ is a much bigger puncher than Fury.

[Cojimar 1946]

Douglas fought a great fight against Tyson. You should watch it some time. He would have beat Klitschko, Fury, Once a Year, Joshua etc.

Holyfield had lot of very good-great performances. Holyfield did not fight a good fight against Moorer. This doesn't mean the era is weak. In every era, a top fighter had a bad fight. Fury, Klitschko etc. had tons of crappy fights.

I can name many great hw fights from the 1990s. Can't name one great hw fight in the last 20 years.

In the real world Douglas lost to Jesse Ferguson and quit against Tony Tucker and his only quality win outside Tyson was Trevor Berbick. Hypotheticals don't carry the same weight as actual results. A guy who lost to Jesse Ferguson becoming lineal champ is not a great look for a supposed golden age. Douglas, Bowe, Moorer, old Foreman, and Rahman all becoming lineal champs in just over ten years seems like it requires a lot of explaining and excuse making.
The era would look a lot better if Tyson only lost to Holyfield and Holyfield only lost to Lewis and Lewis retired undefeated without the losses to Rahman and McCall.

[keithmoonhangover]

If you think the division sucks now how can you claim the 1990s were a strong era

Because the then WBC Heavyweight Champion of the world, Tyson Fury got dropped and almost lost to a debutant with zero amateur fights. When did that happen to any top 90's heavyweight? Just name it and I'll concede that you are infinitely more wise than I.

Fury was years removed from his prime and a good 30 pounds overweight, a shadow of the fighter he was at his peak 8 years earlier so I wouldn't say its a comparable situation to Holyfield-Moorer or Tyson-Douglas. Moreover Fury won the fight most people seeing it as a clear 7-3 victory. We also don't know how good Ngannou is as he's had so few fights. He got taken out by AJ but AJ is a much bigger puncher than Fury.

The thing is, you forgive Klitschko for all of his losses, making excuses to fit your argument. You also make excuses for Fury and his performance against a non-boxer. You are also hyper-critical of all things Mike Tyson and dismiss any reasoning. Fury beat Klitschko by landing an average of eight punches per round, that is a fact. If you class that as his peak, then you're setting the bar very low.

[Cojimar 1946]

Because the then WBC Heavyweight Champion of the world, Tyson Fury got dropped and almost lost to a debutant with zero amateur fights. When did that happen to any top 90's heavyweight? Just name it and I'll concede that you are infinitely more wise than I.

Fury was years removed from his prime and a good 30 pounds overweight, a shadow of the fighter he was at his peak 8 years earlier so I wouldn't say its a comparable situation to Holyfield-Moorer or Tyson-Douglas. Moreover Fury won the fight most people seeing it as a clear 7-3 victory. We also don't know how good Ngannou is as he's had so few fights. He got taken out by AJ but AJ is a much bigger puncher than Fury.

The thing is, you forgive Klitschko for all of his losses, making excuses to fit your argument. You also make excuses for Fury and his performance against a non-boxer. You are also hyper-critical of all things Mike Tyson and dismiss any reasoning. Fury beat Klitschko by landing an average of eight punches per round, that is a fact. If you class that as his peak, then you're setting the bar very low.

Fury beat the non-boxer despite being well past it and badly out of shape. Given the stage in his career it seems odd people would think its relevant. It would be like focusing on Ali-Spinks and how bad Ali looked against a 7 fight novice. No 90s heavyweight fought Ngannou so theres no basis for comparison but I expect if he landed he could drop them.

Klitschko has bad losses but was on top much longer than Tyson, has more than twice as many title defenses and beat more top contenders. That seems like enough to put him ahead all time.

[keithmoonhangover]

Fury was years removed from his prime and a good 30 pounds overweight, a shadow of the fighter he was at his peak 8 years earlier so I wouldn't say its a comparable situation to Holyfield-Moorer or Tyson-Douglas. Moreover Fury won the fight most people seeing it as a clear 7-3 victory. We also don't know how good Ngannou is as he's had so few fights. He got taken out by AJ but AJ is a much bigger puncher than Fury.

The thing is, you forgive Klitschko for all of his losses, making excuses to fit your argument. You also make excuses for Fury and his performance against a non-boxer. You are also hyper-critical of all things Mike Tyson and dismiss any reasoning. Fury beat Klitschko by landing an average of eight punches per round, that is a fact. If you class that as his peak, then you're setting the bar very low.

Fury beat the non-boxer despite being well past it and badly out of shape. Given the stage in his career it seems odd people would think its relevant. It would be like focusing on Ali-Spinks and how bad Ali looked against a 7 fight novice. No 90s heavyweight fought Ngannou so theres no basis for comparison but I expect if he landed he could drop them.

Klitschko has bad losses but was on top much longer than Tyson, has more than twice as many title defenses and beat more top contenders. That seems like enough to put him ahead all time.

Well, if I may. The difference between the Leon Spinks who fought Ali and the Ngannou that fought Fury, is.... drum roll please.... Leon Spinks was a boxer. In fact, he was Olympic gold medalist at...... yes, you've guessed it.... boxing.

[Controversial]

Thinking about it every HW fighter in history including journeymen (apart from Fury) would've sparked Ngannou in one round. Ali probably the quickest as he was the greatest so maybe with his first or second punch. If Ngannou landed nothing would happen to these guys, they were made of different stuff to Fury.

[keithmoonhangover]

Thinking about it every HW fighter in history including journeymen (apart from Fury) would've sparked Ngannou in one round. Ali probably the quickest as he was the greatest so maybe with his first or second punch. If Ngannou landed nothing would happen to these guys, they were made of different stuff to Fury.

It's bizarre that you assume other fighters wouldn't train properly and weren't focused, just because you think Fury wasn't.

Seriously, which heavyweight from the 90's would Ngannou beat? Or least deck and take to a split decision?