BoxRec

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 11:32**

[/quote]
Man its good to see Yaqui smilin like that .
What a warrior.
I had read somewhere that Yaqui was struggling with a real bad back.
Lotta pain.[/quote]

Expug, you may be thinking of Mando Ramos who has severe back pain and now walks with a cane. I met up with Yaqui Lopez a couple of months back and he's in tremendous shape. At least I didn't have any indication he was in any pain. He is very affable and still has a very keen memory of all his fights.

Scartissue

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 12:09**

How many of you're coming to the "Califorina Boxing Hall of Fame" in June?

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 12:33**

kikibalt wrote:How many of you're coming to the "Califorina Boxing Hall of Fame" in June?

If I still lived in Phoenix I'd be there, but folks like myself of humble means living on the East Coast will have to read about the event on the internet.

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 12:45**

BoxBuzz wrote:
kikibalt wrote:How many of you're coming to the "Califorina Boxing Hall of Fame" in June?
If I still lived in Phoenix I'd be there, but folks like myself of humble means living on the East Coast will have to read about the event on the internet.

To bad, would sure love to see as many of you there, the diego dude won't have that excuse though, its on June 21, which is on a Saturday.

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 13:49**

kikibalt wrote:Diego Dude

You have some good stories about going to the fights in T.J. and I love reading them, so lets have some more, and make this old man happy.

I asked my father if he'd like to watch Sugar Ray Robinson fight across the border. He gave me a funny look.

"You mean to say he's fighting in Tijuana?"
I told him he was fighting a local fighter by the name of Memo Ayon.
"Never heard of him"
Well my father had seen Robinson fight in Chicago against the likes of LaMotta and Basilio,and he wasn't that enthused about crossing the border to watch him fight an unknown fighter in a bullring.
"Robinson must need the money," said my father. My father once told me how he'd have lunch with Robinson in Chicago. My father ,I think,never told me everything about their lunch conversations. My father did tell me though about a mob hit outside a brewery and Robinson was standing outside when it happened. Maybe the Outfit wanted Sugar to also understand how wiseguys deal with people who didn't play along. Some of Robinson's fights in Chicago were a little funny.(that's another story)

Anyway my father didn't want to dissappoint me,so we drove down to watch Robinson fight. Ayon had only a few fights,but Robinson had to be in his mid 40's and had fought over 200 times. Before I describe the action,I'll give you some advice. Never park your car in the bullring parking lot. The way the cars fill it up looks like a Chinese jigsaw puzzle. You'll never get your car out of there unless your car is a tank,and you can just steamroll your way out. So my father parked on the street and made sure to pay the cop on the corner a couple of bucks so we wouldn't come back and find the car had dissappeared.

We're sitting ringside. No way my father would sit in the rafters. That didn't show any class. Besides the boys in the rafters were pretty rowdy,and that was before the fight. The participants entered the ring. Quite frankly the crowd didn't care for the great old champion. Black fighters ,with the exception of Archie Moore who was loved by Mexican fight fans,never caught on in Mexico. Maybe Joe Louis when he toured with Godoy,but that was it. Let's face it. It was a racial thing.

The crowd wanted to see Ayon put Robinson in his place. They made no bones about it. Some of the racial remarks in Spanish directed at Robinson really surprised me. Robinson looked a little indifferent I thought. They took off his white terry cloth robe,and I could see that his body had started to betray him. His chest was startng to get flabby and those round powerfull shoulders he once had had shrunk,the skin contouring around his bones.

Sugar Ray Robinson had forgot more about boxing than Memo Ayon would ever know,but Robinson could only display that knowledge in flurries. Robinson had spent a lot of his post retirement boxing career fighting off the ropes. Those spindle legs of his couldn't move him around like he wanted.Yet despite the rust,I thought Robinson was showing enough, winning most of the rounds. However everytime time Ayon would do something the crowd went wild. He'd rinse his mouth and get a standing ovation. At the end of ten the referee raised Ayon's arm. A split decision.

Robinson didn't say anything. They put his robe back on. He looked weary. His face was flushed and hot. He put a towel over his head and walked down the aisle to the dressing room. The crowd was still berating him.

Me and my father got back to the car and drove to the border.
"Well",my father said,"you can always say you saw the great Sugar Ray Robinson"
My father looked at me and could tell I was a little down in the dumps.
"Listen son,there was a time when Robinson wouldn't have used that guy as a sparring partner."

Ayon never won a fight after that. Luis Rodriguez made short work of him in Los Angeles in his next fight. Robinson continued fighting in high school auditoriums and parking lots. Those people who went to watch him could always say they saw the great Sugar Ray Robinson.

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 14:22**

kikibalt wrote:
Tony's best fight imo was against Howard Davis, he drop Davis Twice, in N.J. at that time the fights were score on the round system and in case of a draw they had some kind of point system they would go to, I thought Tony won the fight (albeit close) 6-4 in rounds, now we all know that Davis got the decision, now I got no problem with that, but that one judge who had Davis winning 8-2 should not be judging fights.

"in N.J. at that time the fights were score on the round system "

CORRECTION : The fights were scored for the EAST COAST, ABC TV sponsored former Olympic fighter---NOT for the West Coast stranger.

I can't believe how calmly you discuss that.

The all time winner in this category is Washington DC fighter Adrian Davis, who like all DC fighters had no real manager, and went to New Orleans to fight top welterweight contender Percy Pugh.

Adrian Davis knocked Pugh down FIVE times and lost the decision.

How about when nobody Bruce Curry knocked Benitez down three times and 'lost' the decision.
How about for the return fight where they had Curry fight in Japan less than a week before his fight with Benitez and then travel back to the US for the return with Benitez.

I remember talking to Wesley Mouzon on the phone the night Leonard fought Hearns the 2nd time. I hadn't seen it, so I asked Mouzon if he had. He said, "No. But can you imagine how much Hearns must have had to beat Leonard by if they were forced to give Hearns a draw?"

Hearns knocked Leonard down twice and got a "draw."

Do you think they would have called it a "draw" if Leonard had knocked Hearns down twice?

I liked the local Maryland referee who scored the first TEN rounds of the Jimmy Young-Ali fight for Ali.

Did you see the "scoring" in the Kevin Howard-Ray Leonard fight?

The 'judges' gave Howard the round where he knocked Leonard flat on his back by one point---the same margin that they gave Leonard all the other rounds. When Howard commented on that after the fight to Chris Schenkel, Howard was blacklisted for a year. He couldn't get a fight, even though he had just floored the media's 'greatest of all time' Leonard.

I remember walking out of a closed circuit screening of that fight in Leonard's home area at the Maryland Capitol Center after the ref stopped it to declare designated winner Leonard the winner by a "knockout."
I was irritated at the fakery, so as we walked out I yelled over and over in a booming voice "Leonard eats sh*t" . The friend of mine with me, who was a real roughneck with a long record for assaults, etc., pulled at my arm and said in my ear. "We are the only [non-blacks] here." He was looking like his face was turning green. Or pale white. Or something. I never saw him look or act like that.
I pulled my arm away from him and continued bellowing "Leonard eats sh*t" even louder. No one came near me.
But my friend disappeared and I had to walk around and around the arena to locate him, since he had driven and I hadn't bothered to notice where he parked the car.
When I located him I asked what was his problem--why would a guy as rough as he was be so afraid of a crowd of halfwits.
He said angrily he thought I was crazy, and that he was never going anywhere with me again.

One specialty in the stooge referee's repertoire is to call a knockdown a "slip" when it happens to the designated winner.

How about Angelo Dundee's personal stooge referee Harald Valan in the Floyd Patterson-Jimmy Ellis farce?

Mike Weaver knocked down Larry Holmes and Don King's referee called it a "slip."

Renaldo Snipes flattened Holmes and Don King's referee gave Holmes all kinds of extra time after he struggled up and then almost fell out of the ring once he had dragged himself up.

Frazier knocked Ali down in the 11th round of their first fight and referee Merchante called it a "slip." Then Ali staggered around for the rest of the round after that "slip" like he was auditioning for a part as a drunk in a fifth-rate silent movie.

Lots of "slips" that were really knockdowns when they happen to the designated winner.

Lots of ass-whippings taken by the designated winner designated as a "win" if he manages to last to the final bell.

That's the history of boxing--especially in the Don King-Larry Hazzard farce that it turned into.

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 14:22**

Great story on SRR diego, love it, while I was reading your story on SRR, I was listening to a cd by Jose Alfredo. Keep those GREAT stories coming, you made a fan here Carnalito!

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 15:02**

kikibalt wrote:
"The Duke'
Duke Holloway and Golden Glove fighter George Clemem...1954

Former trainer Bill Slayton had a funny story about Duke Holloway.
Kid walks in the gym and asks Holloway, "Mr Holloway, whats the first thing your gonna teach me?"
Holloway looks him over and says"I think the first thing Im gonna teach ya is how to fall. I think your gonna be doing alot of that and when you do I want ya to fall with class".

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 15:10**

Expug wrote:
kikibalt wrote:
"The Duke'
Duke Holloway and Golden Glove fighter George Clemem...1954
Former trainer Bill Slayton had a funny story about Duke Holloway.
Kid walks in the gym and asks Holloway, "Mr Holloway, whats the first thing your gonna teach me?"
Holloway looks him over and says"I think the first thing Im gonna teach ya is how to fall. I think your gonna be doing alot of that and when you do I want ya to fall with class".

Pug,

That a great quote! Btw Bill Slayton was a great guy, I met Bill around 1952 or so, always found him to be true and honest.

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 15:15**

Gbarry, the Baltazar - Davis fight, was on CBS not ABC.

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 15:23**

Ive read a number of nice things about Bill, but I never got the oppurtunity to meet him.
I liked the story he told somewhere of the QuarryNorton fight when he was working with Ken.
Norton was a little sensitive, tempermental I guess and before his fight with Jerry , Quarry greeted Slayton warmly at the press confrence or weigh in something or other. The two knew each other well . Kenny got mad at Slayton."What are you talkin to him like that for? Hes on the other side.
Slayton had to straighten Norton out. "Hey Ive known the guy for years . Im not giving him secrets.This is what boxings about.
Fight tonight freinds tommorow.
Kenny said" well Im gonna kick his ass."
Slayton told him"thats what I want you to do.Thats why the hell were here".

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 15:33**

kikibalt wrote:Gbarry, the Baltazar - Davis fight, was on CBS not ABC.

Ali and then his replacement Sugar Ray Leonard were promoted by by the ABCTV, Sports Illustrated, TIME magazine, etc media conglomerate.

Then ABCTV latched onto further Olympic boxers, in the hope of coming up with further Leonards.

The fact that this one fight was on CBS only shows that the overall ABC boxing promotion carried the rest of the media with it.

Out of my whole post that is the only point you can comment on?

ABC TV, with clueless Roone Arledge at its head, turned boxing into garbage during the Ali Leonard Cosell time with its designated winners Ali and Leonard, clueless commentators, allowing of Don King to stink up boxing totally while THEY bankrolled him.

Your kid beat one of the Olympic clones, knocked him down twice, and got robbed.

It appears I am more irritated by that than you are.

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 15:46**

granberry wrote:
[b wrote:Out of my whole post that is the only point you can comment on?[/b]
Well yes, you got your thing and I got mine, beside I don't like to roll in the mud.

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 16:11**

granberry wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Gbarry, the Baltazar - Davis fight, was on CBS not ABC.
Then ABCTV latched onto further Olympic boxers, in the hope of coming up with further Leonards.

The fact that this one fight was on CBS only shows that the overall ABC boxing promotion carried the rest of the media with it.

Granberry, if memory serves me, all of Howard Davis' fights in his first couple of years were televised on CBS. Coming out of the Olympics ABC latched onto Leonard and CBS thinking they struck gold got an exclusive with Davis. Howard just never caught on like Leonard. Perhaps lacking the punch, looks and personality (Davis was downright dour at times) and under Rappaport and Jones, just never fought very much. Shouldn't surprise us that they also managed Cooney. Same thing, keep him under wraps, coddle him and just go for the best deal. It works in a sense as far as big money, little risk. But what kind of a fighter are you and how are you remembered? I know what you mean about bad decisions, my pet peeve.

Scartissue

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 16:26**

Ex Pug . . .

That was a great Duke Holloway quote. I have one of my own, from the late 60's.

One day after working out, a heavyweight friend and I were talking with Duke, while we were sitting on the bleachers near dressing room. In a few days, we were going to travel to Kansas City, for the '69 Nat'l GG Tourney, and were discussing the flight

Holloway claimed that he would never fly again, claiming that if God wanted him to fly, he'd have given him wings, etc. He then told us about his only experience in the sky.

In Holloway's classic voice, he said "We was going along just fine until we hit some turbulances, and then my stomach began to turn, and befores I could do a thing, I done CONSTIPATED in my pants!"

We laughed so hard, I nearly constipated in my pants.

-Rick Farris

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 16:27**

Jackie McCoy & Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez

Gato deserve to be in the IBHOF!!!!

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 16:29**

Rick Farris wrote:Ex Pug . . .

That was a great Duke Holloway quote. I have one of my own, from the late 60's.

One day after working out, a heavyweight friend and I were talking with Duke, while we were sitting on the bleachers near dressing room. In a few days, we were going to travel to Kansas City, for the '69 Nat'l GG Tourney, and were discussing the flight

Holloway claimed that he would never fly again, claiming that if God wanted him to fly, he'd have given him wings, etc. He then told us about his only experience in the sky.

In Holloway's classic voice, he said "We was going along just fine until we hit some turbulances, and then my stomach began to turn, and befores I could do a thing, I done CONSTIPATED in my pants!"

We laughed so hard, I nearly constipated in my pants.

-Rick Farris

Rick, that is classic Duke Holloway!!!!!

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 16:32**

Gil King & Ernie "Red" Lopez

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 16:35**

Rick Farris wrote:Ex Pug . . .

That was a great Duke Holloway quote. I have one of my own, from the late 60's.

One day after working out, a heavyweight friend and I were talking with Duke, while we were sitting on the bleachers near dressing room. In a few days, we were going to travel to Kansas City, for the '69 Nat'l GG Tourney, and were discussing the flight

Holloway claimed that he would never fly again, claiming that if God wanted him to fly, he'd have given him wings, etc. He then told us about his only experience in the sky.

In Holloway's classic voice, he said "We was going along just fine until we hit some turbulances, and then my stomach began to turn, and befores I could do a thing, I done CONSTIPATED in my pants!"

We laughed so hard, I nearly constipated in my pants.

-Rick Farris

Hilarious,What a charachter.
I remember reading somewhere

Bill Slaytons description of Duke."Wore a derby chompin on a cigar towel over the shoulder, another one in his back pocket ,and a half pint of christian bros, brandy in the other pocket.
They just dont make them like that anymore.[/b]

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 16:44**

scartissue wrote:

Man its good to see Yaqui smilin like that .
What a warrior.
I had read somewhere that Yaqui was struggling with a real bad back.
Lotta pain.[/quote]

Expug, you may be thinking of Mando Ramos who has severe back pain and now walks with a cane. I met up with Yaqui Lopez a couple of months back and he's in tremendous shape. At least I didn't have any indication he was in any pain. He is very affable and still has a very keen memory of all his fights.

Scartissue[/quote]

Thanks for that update Scar.
Good to hear Yaquis doin ok.
Jackie McCoy told the story somewhere about Mando Ramos giving advice to his son who wanted to become a fighter.
Mando told him"If you become a fighter you might wind up with a nose like mine".The kid said "I dont care about that".
Mando told him "you might wind up with scartissue over your eyes like I got".
The kid said "I dont care about that".
Then Mando told him,"if you become a fighter you might wind up talking like me".
The kid said "no more boxing".

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 17:47**

kikibalt wrote:
Jackie McCoy & Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez

Gato deserve to be in the IBHOF!!!!

Hey Young Fella,Fill me in on that stupid controversy about Gato first getting "in",then they kicked him "out". I'm not clear on that. Who votes on these things anyway? Dago

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 18:00**

Rick or Frank,After Archie Moore retired,San Diego didn't have a big name in boxing for a while. But we had some guys at the lighter weights that I thought were pretty good. Real good boxers. Paulie Armstead,Pete Gonzalez,Bobby Valdez,and Jimmy Fields. Ever see these guys around?
Dago

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 18:13**

dagosd2000 wrote:Rick or Frank,After Archie Moore retired,San Diego didn't have a big name in boxing for a while. But we had some guys at the lighter weights that I thought were pretty good. Real good boxers. Paulie Armstead,Pete Gonzalez,Bobby Valdez,and Jimmy Fields. Ever see these guys around?
Dago

diego,

Paul Armstead and Jimmy fields were from L.A. not from Diego.

Gato has never been in the IBHOF, he is the the CBHOF and WBHOF.

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 18:28**

Diego,

Check this out, from "The Knockout" magazine (Sept.11, 1953 issue) the C.Y.O. Jr. Golden Gloves finales, you see Paul Armstead was in the 112 lbs. championship fight, which he won .

Posted: **23 Feb 2008, 19:42**

kikibalt wrote:
granberry wrote:
[b wrote:Out of my whole post that is the only point you can comment on?[/b]
Well yes, you got your thing and I got mine, beside I don't like to roll in the mud.

I'll roll in the mud, but not here.

BoxRec

Classic American West Coast Boxing

Arthur "Duke" Holloway . . .

Re: Arthur "Duke" Holloway . . .

Re: Arthur "Duke" Holloway . . .

Whatever . . .