dagosd2000 wrote: ↑08 Jul 2019, 23:53
On ESPN Saturday night will be an important welterweight fight between Jamal James of Minneapolis fighting the former WBC champ Antonio Demarco from Tijuana. The bout will take place in James' backyard at the Armory in Minneapolis. The reason I'll be watching is that DeMarco is trained and managed by Romulo Quirarte,the long time operator of the CREA Gym in Tijuana. I was watching a preview of the match on TV and became aware that DeMarco married Quirarte's granddaughter. I believe she is the daughter of former champ Jibaro Perez's first wife and Romulo Quirarte's daughter.. Quirarte must be excited ,as well as Antonio,because the winner looks like he might get a fight with one of multitude of very good welterweights:Crawford,Thurman,Spence,Manny-the list goes on. Another reason I've made this post is that for years I've mispronounced Romulo Quirarte's name.I've been calling him Romulo Rodarte. Sorry.
DeMarco has lost 4 of his last 6. It's kind of make it or beak it time for him. I hope he wins. Quiratre goes way back with Tijuana fighters at the CREA. When I was working at CETYs,the private school in TJ coaching American football, sometimes I'd drop in at the CREA and watch the fighters train. This was in the mid to late 80's.Quiarte had his son in law sitting on the throne at the time. He was very popular with the aficianados in TJ..Perez and Quirarte had a falling out when Jibaro began to unravel ,not only losing the title,but separating from his wife ,Quirarte's daughter. However the last time I saw Quirarte at the CREA he was training Jibaro's son.But it wasn't anything serious.Jibaro Jr. is a popular dentist in Tijuana.
Quirarte's main purpose for staying active at the CREA is to keep kids from getting caught up with the cartels. Good for him. He has a lot respect not only in the boxing circles,but also in the community.When Julio Cesar Chavez came up from Sinaloa,he hooked up with Quirarte for a spell. Quirarte has also worked with Jose Luis Castillo and Maramero Perez,
I'm sure all the fighters at the CREA will be watching the fight along with the other former Tijuana world champs Antonio Margarito,Erik Morales,and Julio Cesar Chavez. This James looks like a tough kid,but he better not let his guard down Saturday.
Romulo Quirarte
Jibaro Perez Jr.
Rog, saw Quirarte working the corner of DeMarco last night. What a great fight.
dagosd2000 wrote: ↑08 Jul 2019, 23:53
On ESPN Saturday night will be an important welterweight fight between Jamal James of Minneapolis fighting the former WBC champ Antonio Demarco from Tijuana. The bout will take place in James' backyard at the Armory in Minneapolis. The reason I'll be watching is that DeMarco is trained and managed by Romulo Quirarte,the long time operator of the CREA Gym in Tijuana. I was watching a preview of the match on TV and became aware that DeMarco married Quirarte's granddaughter. I believe she is the daughter of former champ Jibaro Perez's first wife and Romulo Quirarte's daughter.. Quirarte must be excited ,as well as Antonio,because the winner looks like he might get a fight with one of multitude of very good welterweights:Crawford,Thurman,Spence,Manny-the list goes on. Another reason I've made this post is that for years I've mispronounced Romulo Quirarte's name.I've been calling him Romulo Rodarte. Sorry.
DeMarco has lost 4 of his last 6. It's kind of make it or beak it time for him. I hope he wins. Quiratre goes way back with Tijuana fighters at the CREA. When I was working at CETYs,the private school in TJ coaching American football, sometimes I'd drop in at the CREA and watch the fighters train. This was in the mid to late 80's.Quiarte had his son in law sitting on the throne at the time. He was very popular with the aficianados in TJ..Perez and Quirarte had a falling out when Jibaro began to unravel ,not only losing the title,but separating from his wife ,Quirarte's daughter. However the last time I saw Quirarte at the CREA he was training Jibaro's son.But it wasn't anything serious.Jibaro Jr. is a popular dentist in Tijuana.
Quirarte's main purpose for staying active at the CREA is to keep kids from getting caught up with the cartels. Good for him. He has a lot respect not only in the boxing circles,but also in the community.When Julio Cesar Chavez came up from Sinaloa,he hooked up with Quirarte for a spell. Quirarte has also worked with Jose Luis Castillo and Maramero Perez,
I'm sure all the fighters at the CREA will be watching the fight along with the other former Tijuana world champs Antonio Margarito,Erik Morales,and Julio Cesar Chavez. This James looks like a tough kid,but he better not let his guard down Saturday.
Romulo Quirarte
Jibaro Perez Jr.
Rog, saw Quirarte working the corner of DeMarco last night. What a great fight.
Dan
Tuned in in the 5th round.DeMarco sure had a lot of heart.Kind of figured it would go that way.Hate to sound cynical,but DeMarco will probably return to Tijuana and finish up his career. A tough guy,DeMarco, with a great manager and a kind of second father in law.
Rog, saw Quirarte working the corner of DeMarco last night. What a great fight.
Dan
Tuned in in the 5th round.DeMarco sure had a lot of heart.Kind of figured it would go that way.Hate to sound cynical,but DeMarco will probably return to Tijuana and finish up his career. A tough guy,DeMarco, with a great manager and a kind of second father in law.
This kind of fight should be a wake up call to all the networks. You don't need an ABC title or a regional 'Continental Americas' title affiliated with the fight to make it interesting to the public. You wanna know what makes it interesting? Good match-making. I would take one of those Aileen Eaton good, hard 10 rounders any day of the week. This fight really took me back in time.
This kind of fight should be a wake up call to all the networks. You don't need an ABC title or a regional 'Continental Americas' title affiliated with the fight to make it interesting to the public. You wanna know what makes it interesting? Good match-making. I would take one of those Aileen Eaton good, hard 10 rounders any day of the week. This fight really took me back in time.
Dan
You hit the nail on the head. The fan doesn't care about those phantom titles. He doesn't even remember them.I went down to see this kid fight in TJ awhile back.It was in one of those cramped rundown bars. I was there to see a good fight(it stunk).Anyway, the fight was billed as the "Northern Baja California Featherweight Title." I saw the kid's dad before the fight and he's talking to me about how his son is fighting for the "title." I didn't say anything.I know it's big thing for these fighters to say they won a "title",but when they get the words out it falls on deaf ears.
Sight of Title Town Tijuana
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 14 Jul 2019, 22:38
by dagosd2000
Killer Of Sheep
Earlier today there was a discussion on the forum about uncredible titles. Today ,just about every card , in their main event, has a match for some uncredible title. The ring announcer shouts into the microphone that the main event is for something like "The International Federation Trans Oceanic Meridian Leap Year Title ". They bring out the belt and show it up to the crowd. I don't think the audience is struck with awe. Sometimes these "title" fights are 6 and 8 rounders. The fans paid their money to see a good fight that's all. Titles these days are as common as the common cold.
In my previous post I mentioned how I went to Tijuana to watch a fighter(whose father is a friend of mine) show off his stuff. He was to fight for the "Northern Baja State Title." The guy he was fighting had a record of 4 wins against 8 losses. The match was scheduled for 8 rounds.The venue was a little bar in the Rio section of the city. I assume the promotor invented this "title".The winner would become the new champion of this new title.. The guy who was 4 and 8 was about as raw and out of condition as prisoner who had been locked up in solitary for 6 months.. I had my camera with me and wanted to snap a shot of the action. At the opening bell I looked through the viewfinder and saw the fighter I came to see standing over Mr. 4 and 6 soon to be Mr. 4 and 9. I could still hear the opening gong resonating in the ring while the referee waved it off kneeling over an unconscious now Mr. 4 and 9. I didn't see the punch that sent him into ga ga land.Didn't hear a thump on his chin.Nor a crash to the canvas.No roar of the crowd.Just Mr. 4 and 9's' cornermen lifting him back to his stool.
Now you might say that the fighter I came to watch was just too much for this guy. You'd be partially right. But Mr. 4 and 9 has now transformed into Mr. 4 and 31 since that night in TJ. This travesties are commonplace in Mexico. In total, this man has lost 28 fights in a row.Can you believe his nickname is "Bull"? I know what you're thinking.It should be changed to "Bulls--t."And it is bull---t..This stuff continues every week in these dank,gloomy bars that are spread out around Tijuana. There are fighters down there that haven't won a fight in years and some wo are still looking for victory No.1. Yet every week they come to get slaughtered in one of these hellholes.
There have been some local fighters that have gotten their starts inside these stucco octagons and then left "Dodge" to go on to bigger and better things. Fighters like Luis Nery and Jaime Munguia were hanging losses on these poor souls before they took what they have in their fists north of the border and won credible titles and are now making dollars instead of pesos.
The promotors in TJ that stage these tragedies are making a profit-and so are a few entrepreneurs stateside. They know they couldn't put together a rag tag card like they do down there and try to pawn it off in California. Granted, it's only a few bucks to watch these bar fights in TJ,but it isn't very satisfying not to mention often repugnant. Sometimes there's like 15 or 20 fights on one card..Some of these fighters look like they were picked up at the bus stop and asked if they'd like to make a few pesos before going home for the night.
But again,I get caught up with my witticisms. This carnage is not entertaining to watch and is inhumane.The boxing commissions are about as credible as their promotions.Fight records are made up,Fighters are told to pay up front if they want to get on a card,and often the results of these matches are erroneously sent to the boxing record keepers. BoxRec has had some bad experiences with some of the message senders. Then there's the "loaded" gloves,the prearranged deals,and the "better performance through chemicals."
Mexico has dog fighting,cock fighting,bull fighting,and human being fighting. Sometimes it's hard to differ
elmersalsa wrote: ↑12 Jul 2019, 13:06
Anyone of you remember the great Vicente Saldivar?
Does anyone of you remember the fights at the Arena Coliseo in Mexico City?
Does anyone in here remember Mexican legendary announcer Antonio Andere?
Elmer
Here in the Southland Saldivar is remembered fondly.His destruction of Raul Rojas at the Memorial Coliseum in LA was a prime example of his toughness and durability. I saw him(when supposedly at the peak of his career)lose miserably to Kuniaka Shibata at the Municipal Auditorium in Tijuana. He looked tired and drained. His corner stopped the fight.The turning point on his way to the top as a UD against Ismael Laguna in the Tijuana bullring.Saldivar honed his teeth at the Arena Coliseo,but like the other great Mexican champions,after winning the title,never went back to the Arena Coliseo for a defense. He did fight,however,at the Estadio Azteca.
Vicente Saldivar
I remember watching Andere on Mexican TV.Most of the weekly bouts came from Mexico City and the Arena Coliseo. He also announced all the big fights. He was Mexico's counterpart to our Don Dunphy. A spokesman,a man with sincerity,a legend in Mexico.
I liked Mexican announcer Antonio Andere . He was something else. A very great boxing announcer, but sometimes, he was too nationalistic.
The great Vicente Saldivar. What can I say about him. Even though he was fighting before I was born, I enjoyed all of his fights on YouTube. After the great Julio Cesar Chavez, he is my favorite Mexican fighter. And What a fighter he was!
dagosd2000 wrote: ↑12 Jul 2019, 15:21
Elmer
Here in the Southland Saldivar is remembered fondly.His destruction of Raul Rojas at the Memorial Coliseum in LA was a prime example of his toughness and durability. I saw him(when supposedly at the peak of his career)lose miserably to Kuniaka Shibata at the Municipal Auditorium in Tijuana. He looked tired and drained. His corner stopped the fight.The turning point on his way to the top as a UD against Ismael Laguna in the Tijuana bullring.Saldivar honed his teeth at the Arena Coliseo,but like the other great Mexican champions,after winning the title,never went back to the Arena Coliseo for a defense. He did fight,however,at the Estadio Azteca.
Vicente Saldivar
I remember watching Andere on Mexican TV.Most of the weekly bouts came from Mexico City and the Arena Coliseo. He also announced all the big fights. He was Mexico's counterpart to our Don Dunphy. A spokesman,a man with sincerity,a legend in Mexico.
I liked Mexican announcer Antonio Andere . He was something else. A very great boxing announcer, but sometimes, he was too nationalistic.
The great Vicente Saldivar. What can I say about him. Even though he was fighting before I was born, I enjoyed all of his fights on YouTube. After the great Julio Cesar Chavez, he is my favorite Mexican fighter. And What a fighter he was!
Well said Elmer.You're right about Andere,but during his day the aficianados were a lot more passionate about their Mexican fighters. I don't see that today in Mexico. Canelo is by far the most popular,but back in the 60's and 70's every good Mexican fighter would draw attention. After Canelo,you don't hear people in Mexico talking the fights that much.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 15 Jul 2019, 15:19
by dagosd2000
Antonio Andere in the ring interviewing Jose Napoles after his KO of Haracio Saldana.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 16 Jul 2019, 13:02
by dagosd2000
The Wrong Script
You can count on one hand the fighters that retired undefeated. Rocky and Floyd.That's a forefinger and for Floyd a middle finger.(just kidding).But there was a time when I thought Julio Cesar Chavez might pull the undefeated career off.Oh,there was Olivares,Zarate,Iron Mike,even Holmes that I thought just might,but in time that first "L" showed up in their record books. .But the way Chavez was going I thought he would sit beside Marciano on the throne of the undefeated.(Mayweather was just on the horizon).
Julio was winning titles beginning with the Super Featherweight crown ,and after getting tired of the way it fit, kept moving up in weight reeking havoc with any champion who stood in his way.After adding the Super Lightweight Title to his list of accomplishments the next notch up was the Welterweight Championship.The next "victim" who sttod in his way was WBC Champ "Sweet Pea" Whitaker.Pernell had beaten Buddy McGirt to be the No. 1 guy in the welter division ,but there was a locomotive roaring through the tunnel named Chavez that was ready to derail the Pernell choo choo. Of course,Julio had to eat a few more tacos to get to 147.
But who could forget that night in the Aladrome in Amarillo in front of those crazy and confident Mexican fans that were sure that there was a light at the end of Chavez's tunnel? He'd wisk "Sweet Pea" out of the way and put another belt around his waist. There was no way Chavez,who prided himself as being macho ugly, was going to loose to a fighter with the name of "Sweet Pea."
With the Indians circling Whitaker's wagon it looked like an easy scalp.But Pernell was no General Custer.He gave Chavez a boxing lesson that left Julio pulling out his hair between rounds. When it was over Pernell was swimming victory laps in the Little Big Horn.However judges Mickey Vann and Franz Marti gave Pernell a hatchet job scoring the fight a draw. Joe Cortez had Whitaker firing the last shot 115 to 113. It was a MD draw..They should have named it a PU draw.
It was one of the worst decisions in the annals.However, it was like Chavez became exposed that night.A little later a fighter by the name of Frankie Randell undressed him. Chavez's world started spinning out of control.He was up and down after the Whitaker affair.. But it all started with that fight he was supposed to have easy pickins' with-the one with Pernell Whitaker. There was no rematch. Both fighters wound up as legends in the sport.Said and done.
The other day we heard the sad news of Pernell Whitaker's passing. I'm sure it was a blow to Juiio Cesar Chavez. I'm sure when he heard the news he got hit as hard as he did that night in Amarillo.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 17 Jul 2019, 19:40
by dagosd2000
The Trap
This happened a long time ago,before I was married. Me and a friend went down to Tijuana to take in the fights. The bouts were at the Arena 72,an old stucco building that I would estimate could seat around a thousand. The arena was on Agua Caliente Boulevard about a half mile before you got to the racetrack. Rodolfo Gonzalez fought at the Arena 72 once near the end of his career.I can't recall who was fighting that night,but I can say that the card was pretty dull. Anyway,after the last fight my friend and I decided we'd hit a few bars on Revolution Street before crossing the border back to San Diego.
It was a time in the early 70's when Tijuana was trying to change its image on the main drag-Revolution Street. They were shutting down the cantinas with all the prostitutes and the more raunchier ones where you could eat the girl's pussy when she was dancing naked on stage and even bang the girls sometimes when things got really going right in front of everybody. During those times Revolution Street catered mostly to the teenage kids from San Diego and the sailors. Mexicans didn't go in those places.They would blow off steam in their traditional red light district the Coahuila that starts north of 1st Street.
But Revolution Street wasn't all bars of debauchery. The world famous Jai Lai Palace was on the corner on 9th Street. The Caesar Hotel where the Caesar Salad was concocted was between 6t and 7th. It's still there. One of the best eateries in TJ. In the early 60's Carlos Santana played with his rock n' roll band at the Convoy Club that was next to the Hotel Nelson. The U.S. and Mexican kids would go there to dance.Then there were all the taco carts,and my favorite,the torta stands,where you could get a hot beef or ham torta for a quarter. The drug stores(farmacias) would have candy jars on the front counter loaded with amphetamines and barbiturates that you could pick out as many as you want. To stay up for the night I'd buy a few Dexedrines for 30 cents and then to go home and get some sleep a couple of Darvons would send me into nighty night. The guy behind the counter would pick out with a tweezers the pills and put them in a tiny paper bag ,and off you'd go.
We'd usually begin at the Hotel Nelson Bar and get a "Special" for 60 cents.(the bartender would put salt around the top of the glassthen put.a shot of Bacardi,a shot of Coke,a shot of 7 Up,a shot of pineapple juice,and top it of with seltzer water.).Then we'd shuffle off up the street to the Long Bar. For 75 cents you'd get the biggest pitcher of Mexicali beer that could drown a navy.Now that the buzz was going it was a short walk down 2nd Street to the Blue Fox. The guy at the door would steer you to the bar for a short neck bottle of Corona and then it was on a search and destroy mission to find a hooker. The place was so dark and crowded with bumping into shadows, bands playing loud and out of tune on the lower and upper stages so blaring that you thought you had stumbled into hell. But once one of those girls wearing the mini falda sat beside you in a corner booth and started rubbing your crotch it made you think that maybe hell isn't so bad after all. For 2 bucks you could find a dark corner and sit in smelly booth and then the girl would tell you to sit slauchy and slide your pants down to your knees. Then she moves her panties around and gets on your lap and straddles your flagpole.
Well,,getting back to the night of those fights at the Arena 72. Me and my friend indulged in all that behavior I just mentioned. For less than 5 bucks we got drunk, throwed and blowed,and finished off the night filling our stomachs with tortas..But my friend wasn't quite ready to call it a night.
Revolution Street was where you could buy switchblade knives in the curio shops.They would spread them out in a glass showcase near the entrance. My friend who had a penchant for shooting and stabbing prople(served 2 years on a manslaughter conviction shooting some guy in the back with a shotgun)wanted to add one of those Tijuana switchblades to his arsenal.
"It's against the law to have those things in your possession down here,"I told him.
"Then why do they sell them?"he logically asked.
"It's a trap. They sell you the knife.Then the guy follows you outside and signals the cop at the corner, The cop searches you,finds the knife,and takes you to jail. Then you have to come up with 24 dollars(every bribe was 24 dollars,24 dollars for pissing in the street.24 dollars for getting in fight.24 dollars for having a switchblade)
"But I want one,"he pressed on.
"Look,"I urged."The knives are junk.As soon as you open it up the blade will fall off."
"But I really want one."
I grabbed my friend by the arm and started to pull him down the street to where the car was parked.
"Wait,"said my cutlery friend."Let me duck in this bar so I can take a piss."
I waited for him at the corner. I saw him walking up to me and was about a few feet away when this big Mexican cop grabbed him around the shoulders and threw him against a lamp post.
"I know you have a knife,"the big bastard blurted out. "I search you now"
Sure enough.The cop went up and down his pant legs.My friend had in his pants pocket a switchblade.
"You go to jail,"said the cop angrily."You friend can go too to pay if you have no money."
Now my mind started to think like someone born and raised in TJ.
"Look amigo,"I said to the cop in a very reasonable tone of voice."Can we just walk in this hallway and we can pay the fine without going to the police station?"
The big cop looked down and then grunted.
"Well all right. ".
Everyone took a little walk into the shadows of the hallway.
"24 dollars is the fine,"said Tijuana's finest.
I extracted two tens and and a single.
"All we have is 21 dollars,"I meekly muttered.
"OK.Give me the money,"said the cop ,and he let us go.
Now it was time to deal with my friend.
"You no good SOB I told you not to buy a knife. We're lucky we both ain't in jail you dumb bastard."
We didn't say a word to each other as we drove to customs at the border. The customs guy asked what we brought back from Tijuana.We told him" nothing."He then asked what our purpose was for going to Mexico. I said we wanted to watch the boxing matches..He waved us through.As we pulled away from the checkpoint my friend started reaching down his crotch.
"Did you wear a rubber with the girl you were with?"I asked him
He smiled at me and then pulled out from his pants a switchblade knife.
"The one I gave the cop was my old one,"he said grinning like the cat that swallowed the canary."This one I bought at the curio shop."
I wanted to stop the car and throw him out the door. My friend,still wearing the smile , put the knife up to my face and stroked the switch. The blade popped open and then dropped out landing on the floorboard of the car. I never laughed so hard I my life.
Tacos Al Pastor.A favorite street food snack after a night on the town
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 19 Jul 2019, 19:39
by dagosd2000
Don't Believe The Hype
I don't watch all the pre fight hype they have on television anymore. Nor do I watch any pre happening talk about any upcoming sporting event. Let these talking heads beat their gums all they want. Like Yogi Berra said,"It ain't over till it's over."You can feed all the data into a computer and get all the "experts" together to air their opinions, and it's still wait and see. You never know what's going to happen.
But then there was a time....Yes,I was as caught up with what I believed would happen as the next seer of sports. Often my reasoning was determined by a personal feeling ,one way or another,and if that be the case I carried my biased arguments in my hip pocket. Here's one of my prime examples where I thought it was a lead pipe cinch that I was right.-The Monzon /Napoles fight.
If you've avoided reading my posts,I'll give you the heads up. Jose Napoles was and is my favorite fighter. For me he was poetry in the ring. Stoic,calculated,under control,and deadly. When he came up from Mexico and finally got his crack(after being ducked by the likes of Laguna and Ortiz)at Curtis Cokes ,he took the boxing world by storm. He was Ring Magazine's Fighter Of The Year in 1969. He cleared out the LA contenders-Hedge Lewis and Ernie Lopez.Then he easily beat the Cuban nemesis ,the great Emile Griffith in a defense.He made it look so smooth-like butter.. He took a trip going to Syracuse to fight a game,but not as talented Billy Backus when early in the fight Billy opened up one of Jose's tissue paper eyelids. Napoles went back to Mexico the No.1 contender. After a tune up with Manny Gonzalez at the Arena Coliseo,Jose was back at the LA Forum and relieved Carmen Basilio's nephew of his short lived title. It validated the notion that the fight in Syracuse was a fluke. No cut and there would have been no victory parade for Billy.
In the next weight up,the middleweights, there was Carlos Monzon atop of the heap. He did most of his fighting in Argentina. He wasn't too well known when he broke down Nino Benvenuti in Rome to win the championship. The rematch was held in Monaco. Carlos was holding a royal flush. Nino looked like he had aces and eights' before he even got into the ring. With Carlos and Jose now riding high in their respective divisions, the boxing talk was about a possible showdown between the two title holders.
When Muhammad Ali was in San Diego to take on Kenny Norton,I snuck up to Angelo Dundee and told him that I thought Napoles had the tools to dismantle Monzon. I think Angelo was already thinking that way. He had Jose's ear and was pumping him up with visions of holding two title belts. When the match was made I jumped on the pre fight hype bandwagon convinced that my favorite fighter would have Carlos eating snails in Paris. Jose would outbox him. Jose was too clever. Jose had fought better fighters. Carlos was in a weak division. The periodicals that came out in Mexico all had Jose winning this fight. The Mexican boxing analysts could see it no other way. Jose Napoles would beat Carlos Monzon. I saw it their way too. But the Napoles supporters,including mysrlf,were looking through rose colored glasses.
By the time Napoles fought Monzon,he'd gotten lazy.He liked the race track more than the gym and was believing everything that his aficianados were telling him.All Mantequilla had to do was show up. But his fight with Monzon was a disgrace. Napoles trained for a 5 round fight thinking he was going to knock Monzon out. What was he thinking?No one was going to KO Carlos Monzon-and inside 5? Oh,Jose started fast and was ahead early. Gil Clancy,announcing at ringside, was reiterating what Sugar Ray Robinson had said about Jose.That he was the best fighter in the world. Napoles was beating Monzon to the punch,but the blows landed weren't telling ones. In the 5th round Jose hit the wall. Monzon was still standing and now it was time to pick Jose apart. Jose's feet looked they were mired in adobe. Carlos started jumping his long left into Jose's tissue paper facial skin. Then Carlos's right hand howitzers began finding their mark.Napoles couldn't move to get out of the way. from the incoming.Gil Clancy never mentioned anymore about what Ray Robinson had to say. After the bell ending the 6th round sounded, Jose staggered on shaky legs back to his stool. That's where he called it quits. It was the worst performance of his career. Even more so than Muniz 1 or Stracey. Napoles thought he didn't have to train to beat Manzon. Again,what was he thinking?To go 15 rounds with Carlos Monzon back then would have taken even a fighter with Jose Napoles's talent the ultimate sacrifice of getting into top physical and mental condition,.That loss left a stain on Napoles's legacy more than any of his other defeats. For Carlos,his win over Jose proved who was the better of the two greats.
For me it was licking my wounded ego and trying to fathom a legitimate excuse. I tried the one Jose used for awhlie.:"I got thumbed." But no one was buying that one. In time, I wasn't holding on to that falsehood any longer.
Jose Napoles is still my favorite fighter. it just is when I go to YouTube to watch his fights,I skip the one he had with Carlos Monzon.
My favorite fighter
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 21 Jul 2019, 21:21
by dagosd2000
The Poor Indian
"I knew him when he was married to Alicia Muniz,"said Paula.
Paula was the masseuse that worked out of her studio in the Macarena district in Sevilla. Many dance studios,mostly Flamenco,were situated in the Macarena. Many of the student and teachers went to see Paula after practicing and rehearsing all day.My granddaughter Amanda was being chaperoned with my wife and I while she studying and dancing in Seville. Paula had migrated from Argentina,after marrying a Spaniard. She was not with her husband anymore when I met her. She was considered by the Flamenco community as the best masseuse for getting out the kinks and strains out of a tired Flamenco dancer's body.
"Alicia Muniz was one of my clients and a close friend,"said Paula.
I was taking Paula up on a massage even though I never danced a Flamenco step in my life. As I was lying flat on my stomach on the massage table,Alicia kneading my torso like dough in her fingers, I was listening to her story of her friend,the Uruguayan actress Alicia Munia and her husband and long time paramour ,Carlos Monzon.
"He was always bad tempered,"she said. "He didn't have to be drinking to get angry.Oh,the drinking made it worse,but he was always volatile."
Paula was a perta ,lighthearted woman. Probably in her 50's but with a demeanor of a teen. I wouldn't say she had drop dead looks,but her personality made up for any flaws. Her light green eyes glimmered and danced on her face.. Light skin and bobbed sandy hair,a full mouth upturned even when she was not conversing,and a lithe body that had the subtle curves that accentuated her brightness gave her an allure that was irrepressible.
"Why do you think he was that way?"I asked her as she stretched my back muscles with her small but athletic hands.
"He was an Indian.Full blooded. A Mocavi. He was poor and was slighted because he was an Indian. Argentinians consider European blood to be of a higher level and of more importance. Carlos Monzon was dark skinned,an Indian. He had no European blood in him. The prejudice made him that way.Alicia Muniz didn't have to tell me that to know."
"But I thought that Monzon was very popular in Argentina."
"He was very popular,but he couldn't let go of the thought that he was a poor dark skinned Indian."
"He made a lot of money fighting."
"He also starred in movies.He was very popular and financially successful."
"He had the world at his feet,but blew it away."
Alicia paused from working on me.She moved to the front of the table so I could see her.
"Alicia Muniz told me that Monzon had this notion that people thought he was just a crude savage and when he got done with fighting that they would turn their backs on him."
"But he kept some very elite company and his wives were very sophisticated."
"That's what he hated about them. He believed beautiful women like Alicia Muniz looked down on him. The reason they were attracted to him was because he was a celebrity.He was a champion fighter,but lacked sensitivity and intelligence."
"Maybe they were right,"I said.
"I think he knew that too.But he didn't care. He hated intellects, especially if the women in his life attempted to humiliate him with their intelligence."
"I remember when he was convicted of murdering Alicia Muniz."
"All of Argentina was focused on that event. By that time his popularity had practically vanished."
"I also remembered when he got killed in that car crash after visiting his children.He was on a furlough from prison."
"When he died Argentina embraced him again like before ."
"Too bad he didn't live to see it."
"Only in death could he have regained some of that glory."
Carlos Monzon
My nine year old granddaughter Amanda dancing at the Casa De Anselma in La Triana section,the Gypsy quarter, in Sevilla.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 23 Jul 2019, 10:43
by dagosd2000
Don't Wake Up A Sleeping Giant.
Watched the replay of Manny/Thurman.I was up in the air about who was going to win that one. At 40 years of age a fighter can enter the ring leaving all his worth as a fighter behind in a heartbeat.Thurman,on the other hand,I felt didn't have the experience in big fights like Manny. If Manny had one more fight left in him,he'd win in my book. If not,it would be a case of Manny hitting the 40 year old wall.
After Thurman getting dropped in the first round he went into a funk.That was the tip off. He got gun shy after that flooring.I've seen it happen before. A fighter gets rocked early and can't shake it out of his mind. He goes into a shell.The great fights are when both boys get staggered and there's that ebb and flow of violence where you can't decide who's going to prevail at the end.Those are the ones you remember. The epic battles(Gatti/Ward).Pacquiao and Thurman didn't measure up to that. Thurman lost his confidance after the knockdown. The bottom line was,after the knockdown, his punches didn't have "mean intentions" on the follow through. Oscar De La Hoya displayed this behavior in some of his big fights:Trinidad,Mayweather,and B Hop come to mind. I thought Carlos Palomino's fight with Duran went that way. If I go after this guy it's really going to piss him off and he's really going to get fired up and destroy me.. So it's kind of subtly understood between the fighters that the other guy is going to let his opponent win because if he presses the issue he's gonna' get a beat down..It's in the body language. Those encounters usually go the distance, like what we saw Saturday with Manny and Keith.
You notice Thurman didn't cry foul.He praised Pacquiao as a great fighter. But in the back of Thurman's mind he knew if he let himself down.
Manny Pacquiao
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 23 Jul 2019, 12:36
by chrisjs1985
A trio of classic LA fights here. Luis Rodriguez' title win over Emile Griffith in Dodger stadium, Ken Buchanan's fight with Ruben Navarro at the Sports Arena and Carlos Ortiz vs. Battling Torres at the Coliseum.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 26 Jul 2019, 12:00
by dagosd2000
chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019, 12:36
A trio of classic LA fights here. Luis Rodriguez' title win over Emile Griffith in Dodger stadium, Ken Buchanan's fight with Ruben Navarro at the Sports Arena and Carlos Ortiz vs. Battling Torres at the Coliseum.
Thanks for putting that up.
Emile was the one crying "foul' after that fight.
Ruben took that fight on very short notice
Ortiz settled for Torres instead of Napoles.
Ruben Navarro
At the last WCBHOF ceremony Ruben was inducted. A very funny guy with an amusing acceptance speech. He recognized Rodolfo Gonzalez(who stopped Ruben via TKO)was sitting at the same table as my wife and I.When Ruben finished he walked over to say something to Rodolfo.Ruben looked to be in his same jovial mood. Rodolfo flinched and seemed upset. .Navarro paused for a second and then walked away.I should have asked Rodolfo what was up.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 26 Jul 2019, 12:31
by chrisjs1985
If I'm not mistaken I think Ruben had a fight scheduled for not long after that date. He gave Buchanan a decent fight for a few rounds. Some idiot threw a bottle of whiskey into the ring. Madness. Buchanan is one of my favorite's certainly one of the best Britain has produced. Such a stylist. In his autobiography he said he was training in LA for this fight and there was an earthquake when he went for a run and he got back to the hotel and his dad wondered what the hell was going on.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 26 Jul 2019, 13:48
by dagosd2000
chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2019, 12:31
If I'm not mistaken I think Ruben had a fight scheduled for not long after that date. He gave Buchanan a decent fight for a few rounds. Some idiot threw a bottle of whiskey into the ring. Madness. Buchanan is one of my favorite's certainly one of the best Britain has produced. Such a stylist. In his autobiography he said he was training in LA for this fight and there was an earthquake when he went for a run and he got back to the hotel and his dad wondered what the hell was going on.
Agree with you about Buchanan. He was a great champion who lost to a greater one,Duran. This stuff that used to go on with the Mexican crowd with fights in LA and Mexico.I can't imagine what the aftermath would have been if Mexico would have won the Mexican/American War. Read up on what Santa Anna did when the Americans surrendered at Goliad during Texas's war for independence.
Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez at last year's WCBHOF ceremony.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 27 Jul 2019, 20:50
by dagosd2000
The Other Sugar
"So Chris how long have you lived in San Diego?" I asked the blond haired fellow in the pool at the condominium.
"I've been out here a couple of years,"he answered.
It was hot in San Diego,in the midst of a heat wave.The pool was filing up with the overheated.
"I hear you're from Chicago,"said Chris."So am I."
Chris was down at the pool with his wife. He jumped in the water head first. and then popped up to the surface. He was fair skinned with one of those neatly trimmed fu man chu beards. His gray eyes were alert above a squat nose and a full mouth. His head rested on a thick neck that stemmed up from his broad shoulders. His voice resonated and he spoke with assurance.
"I lived on the corner of Polk And Oakley Boulevards,"I said. "The University of Illinois at Chicago is on that property now. It used to be the old Italian neighborhood."
"My wife used to work at the university,"he said.
"Where in Chicago were you from?"I asked.
"The North Side,near Wrigley Field."
With that said I went into my jag about my grandfather Diamond Joe and Al Capone and how my father was in the Outfit and all that Mafia crap..I knew that was enough of a hook to keep the kid's attention.Somehow those Mafia stories always keep one in a listening mode..The words seldom fall on deaf ears.
"That's really something that your father lived in Al Capone's house,"remarked the kid.
"After they killed my grandfather the guys who worked under him helped my father get into the rackets."
"I can't get enough of that stuff about organized crime in Chicago. I read anything I can get my hands on."
"Back then the mob controlled everything-from politics,the unions,sports.You name it."
"It's different now.At least those neighborhoods are gone.,"said Chris."There's certain places you just don't go in Chicago anymore."
"Is there still a Meadowmoor Dairy?"I asked him.
"Gee,I don't know."
"That was one of Capone's operations. He figured people were always having babies and wanted to cash in selling milk to their mothers."
"I never heard of it."
"My father worked there for awhile. it was mob run,but they had pretty high standards. They tested the milk for bacteria and sold a very high standard product."
"Amazing."
"My father would tell me the story of when the dairy wanted to put Sugar Ray Robinson's name on their chocolate milk."
Chris looked at me with squinting eyes.
"Well they had Sugar Ray come to the dairy to talk things over. After the meeting he's standing outside on the steps of the dairy with my father when this car drives by and these guys stick machine guns out the window and begin blastin' away.Sugar Ray Robinson thought they were shooting at him,but it was a mob hit on some lawyer that was a snitch. The lawyer was standing at the other end of the steps and was gunned down."
Chris looked bewildered.
"Sugar Ray Robinson thought that the mob was getting back at him because of some fight that didn't go their way.You know, the mob approached him to throw a fight now and then,but he wouldn't do it. He had too much pride. So the Outfit respected that,but asked him to "carry" fighters instead.He was such a great fighter. But he did comply. After he won the welterweight championship when he fought in Chicago all his fights went the distance. I mean you could bet it any way you wanted..The bookies would make him an odds on favorite to knockout his opponent so the mob guys bet on the fight to go the full 15.That's how they made their money on Sugar Ray Robinson."
Chris still had that puzzled look on his face.
"When I talk about Sugar Ray Robinson you know who I'm referring too don't you?"
"Don't you mean Sugar Ray Leonard?"asked Chris sheepishly.
"You've never heard of Sugar Ray Robinson?"
"No I haven't."
Well,instead of going into a diatribe of the history of Sugar Ray Robinson,I just threw out a little anecdote.
"Did you know that Ray Leonard called Sugar Ray Robinson on the phone and asked him if he could use his nickname-Sugar?"
"No. I didn't know that."
Chris looked up with furled brow.
"He must have been a pretty good fighter,"said Chris.
"Well,If you've got a little time let me tell you about him."
The other Sugar
.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 29 Jul 2019, 20:06
by dagosd2000
The Empty Six Gun
I had to look up in the BoxRec records who Jimmy Heair fought that night in Tijuana in 1976.Heair's opponent was a fighter named Jose Luis Soberanes. Before I get to the fight I'll fill you in with my friend who wanted to go down there and watch his favorite fighter,Jimmy Heair,in action.
My friend's name was Tim Collier. He was born and raised in Texas(I think Midland) and had the Pecos River flowing in his blood. I'm not sure when he moved out to San Diego with his mom and dad and older brother,but he always considered himself a Texan first and foremost. Tim had orange reddish hair and the same colors to match his freckles,and his neck!.He wasn't a big guy like you might imagine that everything in Texas is big. He was kind of runty but he wasn't no shrinking bluebonnet. If you think of Texas playing a big part of the Wild West,well, that image personified Tim Collier. He talked like he was the sheriff of El Paso with his "Howdy Ma'am" drawl.He was always smiling just like the cat that swallowed the canary.
I think what set him off was shortly after he came out here with his family,his mother(who was the spittin' image of Tim so they say)ran off with some dude she'd met in one of the honky tonk saloons down at the beach. Well,she got tired of this guy and returned to the homestead to be with her brood. Then one night the jilted lover tried to extract a pound of flesh(literally) from his former paramour by breaking into the house wielding a butcher's knife. Everyone was sleeping at the time and the crazed ex Romeo stabbed the poor woman in the heart.Tim's dad was in the living room watching the television when the chaos erupted. The old man bolted into the bedroom and began tangling with the assassin. Tim and his older brother were abed when they heard the struggle. Tim sensed that something was very wrong and rushed to his father's aid. As the old man was locked together in a death struggle,he yelled at Tim to go to the kitchen and brandish an equalizing blade. Tim ran to the kitchen and procured the weapon from the kitchen drawer.His dad subdued the killer and then admonished his own method of doing away with the man who had just murdered his beloved by plunging the kitchen knife into the guy's ticker.
Well,that made all the headlines the next day. After that episode Tim morphed into a throw all caution to the wind type of individual. He said f--k school. The hell with everything and began selling dope and shooting what was left in his veins.He filled the needle with anything that would get him high-meth,coke,heroin.He went to jail for numerous drug deals gone bad,shot a guy with a shotgun who burned him when he welshed on a drug sell. But instead of his father going ballistic he always had a soft spot in his heart for Tim. The older brother looked like the dad.Tim was the spittin' image of his mother.
"I'm crazy like my mother,"Tim used to say ,and knew he could get away with it with his father.
I introduced Tim to going to the boxing matches. if they were at the Coliseum there were enough watering holes in the neighborhood to keep the night going. If the fights were south of the border,well,what do I have to tell you. When Jimmy Heair arrived in the Southland and began winning fight after fight,Tim grasped on to the toe head kid from Tennessee.
I remember when Heair started out.They built him up by reporting of his winning some amateur tournaments in Texas.Did they say Texas? All Tim Collier could say was "Howdy Pardner".It didn't matter if Heair was a Volunteer from Tennessee. If Jimmy won them boxing shootouts in Texas,that's all that mattered to Tim Collier.Jimmy Heair was a son of a gun from Texas.
Anything or anybody from Texas was sacred with Tim Collier;the Alamo,The Dallas Cowboys,Audie Murphy,Bob Wills and his Texas Playboys. Texas was still the biggest state in the union,not Alaska according to Tim.
"Them Eskimos in Alaska ain't Americans,"Tim would grumble. "Alaska's not a part the United States."
When Jimmy Heair came riding into town that's all it took for Tim to be his sidekick.
"Jimmy Heair's gonna' be the next champ,"gloated Tim.
By the time of that fight in 1976 in Tijuana Jimmy Heair's career was stampeding out of control. But it wasn't hard to coax Tim into going down to TJ to watch his pard fight.Besides, there were plenty of bars and whorehouses in town to let off steam afterwards(Howdy Ma'am)
Well,when we got to the Auditorium you could tell it was going to be a full hacienda.We arrived in time to get a couple of good seats near ringside.The usual pre fight activities were taking place:the slinging around the rattlesnake,tossing the bloody crotch lady's underpants in each others' faces.,the popping of firecrackers.
I remember when Jimmy Heair walked down to the ring. He looked like he was drugged. He was sweating pretty good,but he looked doped up,eyes glassy. The aficianados gave him the Mexican Bronx cheer with all the whistling,but they didn't hate the guy. Not like they hated Davey Moore or even Sugar Ray Robinson. Them being black had a lot to do with that. But I must say the Mexican fight fans LOVED Archie Moore.
The gong sounded the beginning of the opening frame and right away I could sense something was amiss. Heair stumbled forward and his opponent, sniffing the air, was all over him. Nothing cute or scientific,just a street fight beatdown. Heair looked like he was taking lead every time the Mexican landed a blow.In the 2nd round Heair looked like Davey Crocket at the Alamo except he didn't go down swinging Ol' Betsy.
The crowd got upset with the way Heair kept his guns in his holsters. They pelted him with beer cups as he slithered back to the dressing room. I gave Tim a long stare and then asked him his take on the massacre he had just witnessed.
"I still think Jimmy Heair is gonna' be the champ some day."
"Well, if you're going to say that will you please press your tongue against your cheek."
Bob Wills and his Texas Playboys
Deep In The Heart Of Texas
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Posted: 29 Jul 2019, 20:23
by JohnReed
dagosd2000 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2019, 20:06
I remember when Jimmy Heair walked down to the ring. He looked like he was drugged. He was sweating pretty good,but he looked doped up,eyes glassy. The aficianados gave him the Mexican Bronx cheer with all the whistling,but they didn't hate the guy. Not like they hated Davey Moore or even Sugar Ray Robinson. Them being black had a lot to do with that. But I must say the Mexican fight fans LOVED Archie Moore.
The gong sounded the beginning of the opening frame and right away I could sense something was amiss. Heair stumbled forward and his opponent, sniffing the air, was all over him. Nothing cute or scientific,just a street fight beatdown. Heair looked like he was taking lead every time the Mexican landed a blow.In the 2nd round Heair looked like Davey Crocket at the Alamo except he didn't go down swinging Ol' Betsy.
The crowd got upset with the way Heair kept his guns in his holsters. They pelted him with beer cups as he slithered back to the dressing room. I gave Tim a long stare and then asked him his take on the massacre he had just witnessed.
I limited your post to just the parts that describe the fight. Do you remember any more details? The record book says Heair lost by 7th round TKO, indicating that he survived beyond the brutal second round that you describe.
Remember: in some ways, this bout was tiny bit of boxing history. That's because it marked the first time that Heair was stopped. After this, it was years before Heair got KO'd again. And even by that time, Heair was routinely going the distance with world class boxers, like Pete Ranzany and Roberto Duran.
I'm curious who this Jose Luis Soberanes was. The record book indicates that he was 0-2 as a pro before facing Heair. I wonder how the amazing TKO defeat of Heair can be explained? Was this an over-the-weight match, perhaps Soberanes normally fought at welterweight or junior-middleweight?
Intriguing also is that you say Heair entered the fight looking like he was "drugged." Can you tell us more?
Finally, when you refer to gun holsters, are you speaking rhetorically, or do you mean that Heair's ring robe and garb actually included a gun holster, just for effect? Some fighters do stuff like that, for entertainment reasons.
dagosd2000 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2019, 20:06
I think what set him off was shortly after he came out here with his family,his mother(who was the spittin' image of Tim so they say)ran off with some dude she'd met in one of the honky tonk saloons down at the beach. Well,she got tired of this guy and returned to the homestead to be with her brood. Then one night the jilted lover tried to extract a pound of flesh(literally) from his former paramour by breaking into the house wielding a butcher's knife. Everyone was sleeping at the time and the crazed ex Romeo stabbed the poor woman in the heart.Tim's dad was in the living room watching the television when the chaos erupted. The old man bolted into the bedroom and began tangling with the assassin. Tim and his older brother were abed when they heard the struggle. Tim sensed that something was very wrong and rushed to his father's aid. As the old man was locked together in a death struggle,he yelled at Tim to go to the kitchen and brandish an equalizing blade. Tim ran to the kitchen and procured the weapon from the kitchen drawer.His dad subdued the killer and then admonished his own method of doing away with the man who had just murdered his beloved by plunging the kitchen knife into the guy's ticker.
My God...that is awful. I don't know how your friend Tim could get through life sane after experiencing something like that. We're talking a life of psychic pain. How terrible.
dagosd2000 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2019, 20:06
I remember when Jimmy Heair walked down to the ring. He looked like he was drugged. He was sweating pretty good,but he looked doped up,eyes glassy. The aficianados gave him the Mexican Bronx cheer with all the whistling,but they didn't hate the guy. Not like they hated Davey Moore or even Sugar Ray Robinson. Them being black had a lot to do with that. But I must say the Mexican fight fans LOVED Archie Moore.
The gong sounded the beginning of the opening frame and right away I could sense something was amiss. Heair stumbled forward and his opponent, sniffing the air, was all over him. Nothing cute or scientific,just a street fight beatdown. Heair looked like he was taking lead every time the Mexican landed a blow.In the 2nd round Heair looked like Davey Crocket at the Alamo except he didn't go down swinging Ol' Betsy.
The crowd got upset with the way Heair kept his guns in his holsters. They pelted him with beer cups as he slithered back to the dressing room. I gave Tim a long stare and then asked him his take on the massacre he had just witnessed.
I limited your post to just the parts that describe the fight. Do you remember any more details? The record book says Heair lost by 7th round TKO, indicating that he survived beyond the brutal second round that you describe.
Remember: in some ways, this bout was tiny bit of boxing history. That's because it marked the first time that Heair was stopped. After this, it was years before Heair got KO'd again. And even by that time, Heair was routinely going the distance with world class boxers, like Pete Ranzany and Roberto Duran.
I'm curious who this Jose Luis Soberanes was. The record book indicates that he was 0-2 as a pro before facing Heair. I wonder how the amazing TKO defeat of Heair can be explained? Was this an over-the-weight match, perhaps Soberanes normally fought at welterweight or junior-middleweight?
Intriguing also is that you say Heair entered the fight looking like he was "drugged." Can you tell us more?
Finally, when you refer to gun holsters, are you speaking rhetorically, or do you mean that Heair's ring robe and garb actually included a gun holster, just for effect? Some fighters do stuff like that, for entertainment reasons.
Interesting post.
Like I said I had to look up Soberanes record.I'd forgotten him shortly after that fight.I see that the BoxRec has it ending in the 7th round. I remember it ending sooner,but maybe I'm wrong. I see where it was Soberanes' 3rd fight. That doesn't add up,but ring records from Mexico are lacking.I think Heair's water bottle might have been laced with something. Gaspar Ortega told me that he was food poisoned in Mexico prior to one of his fights.And no,Heair wsn't toting iron. However,legendary lawman Wyatt Earp had to be disarmed before he refereed the first Bob Fitzsimmons/Tom Sharkey fight in San Francisco.
Tim's dad didn't get in trouble.It was self defense.
I limited your post to just the parts that describe the fight. Do you remember any more details? The record book says Heair lost by 7th round TKO, indicating that he survived beyond the brutal second round that you describe.
Remember: in some ways, this bout was tiny bit of boxing history. That's because it marked the first time that Heair was stopped. After this, it was years before Heair got KO'd again. And even by that time, Heair was routinely going the distance with world class boxers, like Pete Ranzany and Roberto Duran.
I'm curious who this Jose Luis Soberanes was. The record book indicates that he was 0-2 as a pro before facing Heair. I wonder how the amazing TKO defeat of Heair can be explained? Was this an over-the-weight match, perhaps Soberanes normally fought at welterweight or junior-middleweight?
Intriguing also is that you say Heair entered the fight looking like he was "drugged." Can you tell us more?
Finally, when you refer to gun holsters, are you speaking rhetorically, or do you mean that Heair's ring robe and garb actually included a gun holster, just for effect? Some fighters do stuff like that, for entertainment reasons.
Interesting post.
Like I said I had to look up Soberanes record.I'd forgotten him shortly after that fight.I see that the BoxRec has it ending in the 7th round. I remember it ending sooner,but maybe I'm wrong. I see where it was Soberanes' 3rd fight. That doesn't add up,but ring records from Mexico are lacking.I think Heair's water bottle might have been laced with something. Gaspar Ortega told me that he was food poisoned in Mexico prior to one of his fights.And no,Heair wsn't toting iron. However,legendary lawman Wyatt Earp had to be disarmed before he refereed the first Bob Fitzsimmons/Tom Sharkey fight in San Francisco.
Tim's dad didn't get in trouble.It was self defense.
On the subject of supposedly inexperienced Mexican fighters, I remember Ramon Ranquello, the hard-hitting clubfighter from the 1970s who KO'd world-class lightheavyweights Bobby Cassidy and Mike Rossman. For the latter bout, Ranquello's record was listed as 13-6-2. But Ranquello himself claimed to have amassed something like 70 pro wins in Mexico against just a handful of losses. Given how Ranquello handled himself in those bouts against leading US fighters, he was probably telling the truth.
Jerry Quarry did the color commentary of Ranquello's 1976 win over Bobby Cassidy, a huge upset. Ranquello entered that fight with an official record -- that is, according to US based info -- of 4-2-2. On this subject, I remember hearing Quarry laugh and say, "Well, I'm sure he's had a lot of fights in Mexico that we don't know about."
So yeah....Soberanes probably had dozens of fights in Mexico. Far more than the 0-2 record that made it into the official American record keeping system.
