BoxRec

Where Did He Go?

In England and the United States(I think a little more in the U.S.) the obsession with rankings , listings , who could have beaten who, and who deserves to be in some sort of Hall borders on insanity.especially when there is a difference of opinion that should be a healthy debate or at least dropping the question by saying "Ok.That's you're opinion and I have mine.so let it be."However, there are egos that are super inflated and ones that are sensitive to any sort of criticism. Then the disagreement transforms the question of "What do you think?"into "You stink" or even more nasty like "You suck dick." That's crazy. It goes on and on with who gets the last word in and even to the point where some people eventually get 86'd off the forum.

I usually substitute "He is(or was) the greatest" into" He is(or was)my favorite."I'll refer to Ali as, what he called himself, "The Greatest" but that just serves as a reference.But I'm always interested in what other guys think about naming names when it comes to all that rank and file other stuff.Sometimes I feel like jumping in (and I used to)but why leave myself open to eventually being called a "cocksucker?"There's no one stopping anybody to come to my side of the line and calling me a "cocksucker" but I probably won't take it personal.I more than likely won't respond at all.But after watching the Loma/Lopez fight I'm left scratching my head.The BoxRec Lb for Lb rankings had him up there near the top(I'm not exactly where)but now I see that he's been eliminated from that elite pack.It wasn't like he got smoked in the first round.

Well,Wilder didn't look exactly like a world beater against Fury in the second go around yet Deontay is ranked at number 5.Anthony Joshua fell apart against Andy Ruiz in the first fight and then played hard to get in the second fight and I see Tony at number 7.Triple G looked like he's showing signs of wear and tear in his last fight with Canelo yet the 4th place slot has his name occupying it.So why did Lomachenko not make the top 17?

I once read John Sheppard's(I think it was him) criteria for determining those who deserve and those who don't but I need to be walked through it.Like Shakespeare. I need someone to do the translating.However, when I'm shown the light on Willie the Shake it makes sense to me.I have my doubts though that any explanation about how BoxRec determines their rankings will still keep me from scratching my head.


Canelo Alvarez-BoxRec's number 1 Lb for Lb.You don't have to walk me through this one.I agree though it ain't my thing.

Food For Thought

Read Dan Hanley's post about scoring the Sumbu Kalambay/Mike McCallum fight number 2. I didn't see that fight but Dan said it could have gone either way=a draw would have been just.I remember when Jose Napoles defended his title against Clyde Gray in Canada.The judges' scoring was announced after each round. So as the fight progressed you knew what the score was.All the other sports keep track with points scored. Why can't boxing go back to what happened with Napoles and Gray?Sometimes funny things happen after the fight goes the distance and then it takes forever to total up the judges' scorecards. Things get erased and the outcome is altered the way the spin doctors want it to happen. Also if there are factions that want to influence a judge beforehand it would make them think twice before trying to work their magic.

Going back to Loma/Lopez.That woman judge,Jarman,was way off base in favor of Lopez.it would have been interesting if her scores were read to the audience after each round. I think if they announced the scores after each round it would make the judges not get carried away with a misguided conception of what is going on.However,it also might make some judges be influenced by how the other judges are scoring the fight. But that also happens when the judges don't know how the others are scoring the fight .We have "unofficial" scoring by ringside announcers.I think if they announced the officials' scoring after each round a fighter who thinks he's ahead and then realizes he's behind would have to step on the gas.I wonder how De La Hoya would have fought Trinidad in those last two rounds if he had realized that it was closer than he thought?


Dan Hanley and Rick Farris

Then And Now

I get sick and tired of the sports scribes who seem to love to portray a fighter's loss(or any athlete's or team's defeat) into the end of the world.Lomachenko last week got beat fair and square by this tough Brooklyn kid Teofimo Lopez and now these pundits act like they knew this was coming all the time. Their hindsight is staggering beyond compare. First their pre fight hype about the Ukrainian was to put him in the echelons of a Sugar Ray Robinson.Loma was a fighter who was an indestructible and undefeatable as any as we've seen in our lifetime.He'll make boxing ,with his greatness, the great sport it once was.Then Lopez shatters that vision with his victory in front of a handful of people in a ballroom in Paradise,Nevada.It wasn't Lomachenko's Garden Of Eden.The sound engineers orchestrated a background trying to to emulate the Roman Coliseum during a Battle Royale with their gladiators and beasts..The pyrotechnics were likable to Disney World on the 4th Of July. It all seemed so real like nothing had changed.But the facade was nothing compared to what some of these boxing experts had to say before and after.

Now that Lomachenko looked more like Sugar Ray Seales than Robinson,the experts are now going to kick him to the curb. Oh,he was starting to show his age. And who did he fight?Guys by the name of Campbell,Crolla,and Pedraza.I didn't recognize anybody on that list who was comparable to La Motta,Gavilan,or Basilio.Besides,this 32 year old man might have been a hot shot in those three rounders in the amateurs wupping those youngsters,but now after being a pro for seven years, he got tagged with his second loss in only 16 fights. it was obvious. Put him along side his female counterpart Ronda Rousey for biggest balloon burst of the decade.These guys are brilliant. But they'll keep their jobs and salaries and make their mouths move like puppets until the networks want a younger fool to sit on the panel. I don't listen to any of that pre and post fight noise. I just want to see the fight and then I turn off the TV set.I don't need anyone explaining to me what I just saw.But it is hard to avoid.

If you're out there Lomachenko do this. Get back in the ring again. It doesn't have to be for a championship.(then again they have so many belts in stock you could most likely fight for some sort of title).I know you're "down" right now. That's natural. But you'll get the bug into you again. Get back in the ring.Get a couple of tune ups under your belt. You're still a good fighter. They all had you believing you were invincible.Maybe you thought you WERE. No one is.All the greats-Ali,Robinson,lost fights and then had to pick themselves up nd come back. They were great because they did that. Even the guys who never lost are dissed because they either got the benefit of the doubt or they fought mediocre guys.Mayweather hears it all the time. There' a thread going on right now about "What Fights Did Floyd Really Lose?"And Marciano?How often does he get ranked as the all time greatest heavyweight?

Today,if you lose they all like to jump on the pile and make sure you never get back up again. Get going. Fight again. it will be your biggest test not only as a fighter but what your worth is as a someone more than a boxer. Besides,don't you want BoxRec to put you back in their list as one of the best Lb for Lb ers?Oh,and by the way-LOSE THE SHRINK


Rocky Marciano. Undefeated,but who consider him the best ever?

A Reality Play

I was watching YouTube the other night and came across Archie Moore as a "Mystery Panelist" on that program "What's My Line." the panelists are introduced,the men in dinner jackets,the ladies wearing white gloves.All mid town Manhattan ilk. Talk of the town. You know, New Yorker Magazine types. People with names like Cerf and Kilgallen.A lot of writers.

It must have been after the 2nd Durelle fight and I guess Moore was invited on to be on the show.Well,he signs his name on the board and of course the panelists are wearing their masks and don't know who he is. There's a big hand and a lot of noise and then the panelists are asking him questions trying to guess his name and if they don't get a "yes" response John Daly ,the host ,flips one of the cards over for 10 bucks and if they can't guess who he is then all the cards are flipped over for a big 50 dollars.

Well,it was Dorothy Kilgallen who guessed it was Archie before the 50 dollars came up,but Daly being a big hearted kind that he was, flipped all the cards over for the big 50 bucks. Archie was responding to the questions putting on an "English" kind of accent to disguise himself but he was pretty bad at it.But what I think revealed himself was that it was right after the 2nd Durelle fight and Dorothy Kilgallen asked him if he was a boxer and had he just fought a big fight.After the panelists take off their masks(the men wearing standard black,the gals pretty pink frilly ones) John Daly goes into how the 1st f Durelle fight was a metaphor for courage and that Archie must have been loaded with it.Typically, Archie then goes off on a thread about how he had made weight two weeks before his last fight but then at the weigh in he was a pound or two over and he had to sweat the weight extra off and that he had to get off the canvas because his wife and daughter were in the audience nd he didn't want to look embarrased.But that's the way he was. Ask me about the time and I'll tell you how they built Big Ban with a philosophical bow tied around it.

Archie liked being around those highbrows because he was a damn good fighter and he knew it and he also knew he could dazzle them with a little foot work with his discourses on life all tied together with those sprinklings of his wisdom that put them on the defense holding their gloves up. All you had to do is see that carefully manicured pencil mustache above his lip that stretched to a cat swallowed the canary smile after he concluded one of his many takes on the world.

Yeah,Archie knew he could put those erudites in the palm of his hand.He could quote a line from Shakespeare ,or at least fake them against the ropes with it,and he was also a guy who could knock another man unconscious with his fists.It made the ladies blush and the men wished they could do both.

Archie liked to be on shows.He would do his schtick on Groucho Marx's "You Bet Your Life."Like his nickname "Mongoose" ,he was sneaky fast with the banter and the the words ,like his hands in the ring, would come at you at unexpected angles.He made sure he always kept you off balance.He would, in later years, change the appearance of his facial hair on a whim and wear different kinds of intriguing hats. He was always a sneaky fast "Mongoose."A crafty critter.

But the kid who made Archie cover up was a young fella' who probably thought Shakespeare was some kind of weapon the Indians used to fight the white man with. Archie took him up to his training camp in the foothills of San Diego in the beginning and then he tried to mold him into something like what he wanted but being sure that Cassius didn't bask in all the sunlight. The spotlight would always shine the brightest on Archie. But when he wanted this chatty Clay upstart to wash dishes and clean floors up in the semi arid foothills the kid found a trainer in a balmy warm climate who would let him still be Cassius and not an Archibald.

When Clay towered over the old guy,his arms raised in victory, in the ring at the Olympic Auditorium up in LA after delivering on his poetical prophesy ,I'm sure he didn't glean anything about Shakespeare. But then again Shakespeare was no fighter.



Archie Moore

Two San Diego sports legends-Archie Moore and Ted Williams

But Then Again...

But then again Lomachenko you're a smart man. You've got a wife and two kids. You're not broke. Though you've had only 18 pro fights you amassed an impressive number of fights in the amateurs. You've won Olympic Golds,world championships.You had those 5 championship belts.You're 32 years old. You've crammed a lot of boxing into your life.

If you decide to go on the legacy in YOUR mind will not be fulfilled until you beat Lopez. He's young,on his way up.He's strong,a natural lightweight who will probably test a bigger weight division.You can go on fighting but you will not be satisfied until you beat Lopez. Golovkin has come up short with Canelo.Golvotkin is 38.He's on the downside of his quest to dominate the Mexican. Old fighters ,like aging itself is a waning that you can slow down,but that procession is natural and unstoppable.

Look,you weren't humiliated ln the ring two weeks ago. It wasn't like Michael Spinks swan song against Tyson.You lost to a better fighter. You were still on your feet at the end.Maybe last year you were a better fighter than Lopez but today you're not. Like I said to you before you can try to reset and try to get back on track. But with boxing that's a lot easier said than done.

A fighter has to think about what the next chapter will be when he hangs up his gloves. Does he want to enter the second stage without his senses or any money in the bank.?Does he want a trail of losing to stiffs he could have once beaten with one hand tied behind his back?Does he he want to be just another set up guy?

If Roy Jones could have seen that he had lost his touch after the first Tarver fight and then retire, he'd be mentioned in the same breath as the great immortals.But now when they consider his worth they can't help but factor in about how pathetic he looked at the end.Those stains on his record are permanent.

Before I let this go I want to mention that I looked at the highlights of Chocolatito's win the other night. He's struggling his way back after losing his first two fights,amateur and pro,against the Thai Wangek.The second loss was devastating.But Gonzalez knows that things won't set right until he beats Wangek. His win last Saturday was a lot closer than the judges scored it.Now he still has Wanjek to face and WIN if he wants to be at peace. Gonzalez is 33 years old. He was huffin' and puffin' pretty hard after the ref raised his hand. He had a worried look on his face. I bet he was thinking of Wanjek.

Loma,I'm tellng you something you don't already know.Look,when you get to be an old man you'll look back and think about that fork in the road that you took. You don't want to be sitting in some nursing home with the fork already stuck in you.


"Chocolatito"Gonzalez

What's In A Name?

If you search the lists of Mexican fighters on Boxrec they all have a nickname. Even guys ,who for example have records of something like 5 wins against 35 losses, have monikers like "Toro" (the bull)or less menacing like "Travieso"(mischievous)It's not necessarily that they want to have an alias.It's because in Mexico ,unlike other countries in Latin America and especially the Caribbean,Mexican names are usually very common.The "Juans","Joses"and "Pedros",are a peso a dozen. And then there are the old antique types that parents won't lay on their kids anymore.Names like "Panfilo","Calexito",and Refugio."Then there are the Indian names and no one in Mexico wants to be seen like an Indian though they act the part quite often. Lazaro Cardenas,the president of Mexico,named his son after the Aztec ruler,"Cuautemoc." Brother.

A lot of males are named "Jesus."When I used to work at the jails I'd always check the roster of inmates who were named after the Savior. And there were plenty. If you have the name"Jesus" you're more than likely to have the nickname "Chuy".If you are a "Francisco" you might be called "Pancho" or "Kiki".But there are tons of "Chuys","Panchos" and "Kikis" floating around.

Now the modern trend is to for a Mexican family,especially near the U.S. border, to name their son American style. Why "Juan" when you can name the boy "John"? Less "Franciscos" and more "Frankies."

The females really get the American treatment. My first granddaughter ,when she was born,all the old patriarchs and their spouses wanted her to be named...you guessed it,"Maria." Well "Maria is good for maybe the middle name,but in front it's usually something Anglo like "Michelle."That's my granddaughter's name-"Michelle Maria."

And to have an Anglo last name is esteemed. You're a real Mexican aristocrat if you have a white surname.Like your ancestors sailed over on the boat to Plymouth Rock. Mexico had a president not long ago named Vicente Fox.Did he play it up with his last name.The dude spoke more good English than me.Then there was a Mexican gal who won the Miss Universe title-Guadalupe Jones. Hell,Guadalupe is more old fashioned than" Maria",but then again "Jones" is right behind "Smith" for filling up the Yankee phonebook.Or a close second is to have a "Spanish" last name. A name with muchos "de las" following the "Aragones" ,"Magdalenas",and"Toroellas."Real royalty.

My mother wanted my father to Anglo size his last name. from "Esposito" to "Esty."He complied. Well,I like "Esposito" better. I'm too old to go back and change it now.But you can bet if my parents had named me "Cuautemoc" I'd have said something


Emiliano Zapata-or you can just call me "Zapata"

The Way Of The World

Several years ago ,when my grandson Adam was working out at a local gym learning the rudiments of boxing under the tutelage of former featherweight Tiger Smalls,I wanted to take him to a fight in Tijuana. Boxing in San Diego was sort of a tepid thing-6 round main events,and fighters who should have been honing their skills in the amateurs were exhibiting amateurish skills disguising themselves as professionals in hotel banquet rooms around town on an irregular basis.Now don't get me wrong. I've told you about the cards in TJ at these honkytonk bars.Fighters who shouldn't even be granted a license to fight either because they're sick physically or they've been knocked out so many times that their eventual illness is just a few years waiting for them down the road.

But I had heard that there was going to be a card at the Municipal Auditorium featuring a hot bantam weight by the name of Luis Nery.He was a local kid,a southpaw,who was mowing down the opposition like a scythe through a field of ripe wheat.I also wanted to give my grandson a taste of what it is like to see a fight in TJ with all the crazy bugs carrying on in the usual fashion.

The arena was jammed that night.The aficianados were on cue. Nery got rid of his foe with an attack that would have made Patton take notice. The night brought back some old feelings when I used to see the fights down there and knew that what boxing was all about-the good and the savage all rolled into one.

On one of the undercards was a fighter that didn't ring a bell with me-Jaime Munguia.He was an unlikely big kid being a middleweight,also a local.Like Nery he hadn't lost a fight ,but his approach wasn't Nerylike-a lefty Joe Frazier. No. Munguia was more tactful. Kind of reminds my of this Bud Crawford. He's technically very sound.Likes to stay close,pick his shots,counter nicely,and to add he can wallop.

Munguia is on the docket Saturday to fight in the desert region of Indio,California. It's for a WBO title. I see that he's hooked up with Golden Boy and Erik Morales. That's good stuff to have on your corner.I hope the fight is on TV.

Today in TJ they talk about Munguia .Him and Nery.But it's not like before and I'm not reminiscing about the halcyon days of Olivares and Saldivar.I remember when the Jibaros and Dinamitas were the talk of the ciudad. Then came Tony "Hands Of Plaster" Margarito and "Terrible". Nery and Munguia's names get tossed around, but the way the economy is in Mexico the good fighters fight in now in Indio and the bad ones fight in the honkytonk bars.

And the world just keeps spinning around.

Doing What You Gotta' Do

The gyms are closed in Tijuana. They were having a tough go of it before this coronavirus turned the world upside down.You wonder where the fighters are working out. There are no fight cards. My granddaughter's husband can't put any of his wrestling shows together. Everything is on hold.But people have given up waiting for the next direction. All they know is that life is being lived on a limited day to day basis.It's like an engine running on half its cylinders.It's gotten to the point where there isn't even a lot of anxiety anymore. Mexicans have always believed that fate is going to run its course and that there's not anything you can do about it. That's why they don't blame themselves. The die had already been cast.

But like what's going on in the United States if you're going to take a pot shot,then take aim on the president.Trump will probably be a lame ducker by next Wednesday. But if it would have been Hillary at the helm she would be going down with the ship.This guy who's the president of Mexico,Obrador,like the ones that preceded him,he promised a lot.Like his predecessors he never delivered. If you ask a Mexican what's wrong with the country they won't(like some you are led to believe)that it's Trump's fault.Hell,at least here there are bail outs-stimulaus packages,unemployment insurance,government loans,,welfare,medicaid,all kinds of safety nets. In Mexico your on walking the tight rope without a net.

Don't think that Mexicans ,that for example that live in TJ, aren't pissed off about the Mexicans that reside in town and cross the border to the U.S. to work and now have been laid off and are now collecting unemployment from the United States when the average Mexican who has no papers to work in the U.S, is lucky if he is working in TJ to bring home 8 dollars a day, or less.Where's all the big talk promises now residente Obrador?That's hat they're saying down there. He'll be like the rest of his former peers. When it's all over and done for him he'll high tail it to some cushy retirement in Spain or France or most likely here in the U.S. with a suitcase filled with Yankee dollars.

Back in the day ,south of the border ,like here,when kids got drunk instead of taking drugs(now it's the combination)the poor man's out was to be a prize fighter.That's taken a back seat to being a drug dealer. Smuggling people across the border is up there to. Kidnapping gets mentioned in the news.I guess you do what you have to do.

TJ is a lot like up here-masks,social distancing,bars and restaurants closed to inside seating.non essential businesses like boxing gyms have locks on the doors.Even the cantinas in the Coahulia are closed. But I took a drive down there and see that the girls are still on the streets.(You do what you gotta' do)Didn't surprise me except for he fact that they have to wear masks.You'd think they would let the gyms reopen and make you wear a mask.I always thought a man's need fight was as strong as his need to get some pussy. Come to think about that I'm wrong.I know a lot of guys out there that instead of getting into fight would rather watch it on TV than get a punch in the mouth. I guess you could watch porn on the internet or whack off everyday,but getting some pussy is a carnal act that can't be satisfied with a video or your fingers unless you get the coronavirus.


Amor De Cabaret

Patron Of The Beasts

Well,they're going to tear down the St. Francis Hotel in TJ.It was built in Imperial Beach,a burg on the U.S. side near the international border in 1916.In 1922 the owner transported the structure in two sections to Tijuana. Clapboard and stucco covered,I'd say around 20 rooms,the St. Francis seemed like a kind shepherd amongst a pack of unruly animals. Boy,does that old place have something it could talk about.So what I'll do is reminisce a little.

The St. Francis is located on 2nd Street between Boulevard Revolucion and Madero Streets. It was smack dab in the middle of all the riff raff that surrounded that edifice like the Indians circling the wagon. Right across the street was the Green Note Cantina more well known as Eat At The Blue Fox.(I'll explain that moniker later) There was that big sandwich board sign of a guy with a face like a fox dressed in a tux holding a cigarette holder. A huckster was at the door and he'd steer you inside with his flashlight in hand and then you'd be in line at the bar and 9 times out of 10 you'd order one of those short neck bottles on Mexicali beer. Then you'd wade your way through the thick of all the whores and waiters and the gringos wanting to get laid. You'd find a place to plop your ass and before you could say "I want to f--k your sister" some gal in a mini falda would be next to you rubbing your crotch.Before your dick got hard the waiter would be over with a tray of another bottle of beer for you and something watered down for the senorita dick rubber. There went a fast buck. Usually the inside was so crowded,smoky, and loud that you couldn't hear yourself think. There were two floors to the joint and what went on on the bottom was going on the same a floor above. If you wanted to get laid in one of the rooms that was off to the side it was 10 bucks to get throwed and blowed and that included the price for the room. But most of the time,being a teenager and being on a hormonal rampage and not a high roller,for 2 bucks you could find a booth in the back that was dark as hell and the gal would tell you to slide your pants down and then she'd sit on your dick and it would all be over in less than 30 seconds.

But some guys tried to get away without paying so the girls had a tactic that would pay off even more for them if the tightwad thought he could pull a fast one. The girl would say to the cheapskate to lift his ass up a bit so she could stick her finger up there all the time rubbing the dude's cock.Well,the other hand was in his back pocket. When he got out the door and went to the next bar he found that his wallet was gone.Oh,he'd rant and rave and return back inside demanding that he wanted his wallet back with all the money or he'd call the cops.Then the bartender who would get this treatment every night would tell the guy he could find his wallet in one of the booths in the back where he got robbed. Sure enough there was his wallet along with about 20 others except there was no money inside.Live and earn.

The main stage at The Blue Fox was on the bottom floor.A girl would come out and dance three songs. The band played loud and off key but it was a fit considering the aura.The emcee that announced the girls was either Enos The Penis or Johnny Hot Nuts. He'd coax everyone through the mike that if you "Swabbies,surfers,and sex maniacs" wanted to see the girl(I sure do remember "Septiembre" and "Georgina".They were really beautiful but all strung out on coke)take all their clothes off then you could lean backwards over the rail to eat their pussies,but you had to clap your hands real hard to see all this. Well,you could bet every dude in the house was in need of a jar a Vaseline before the night was over.The last song was saved for the best.Only the bongo drums were playing and all the lights were dimmed real low.Sometimes when the mood was in sync the girl would pull the guy who was leaning over the rail and drag him onto the stage and mount him. That screwing was on the house.

So for around 3 bucks (unless you got your pocket picked)you could get a buzz and then get buzzed again.The Blue Fox is long gone. There's a bakery there now in that spot.But back then sometimes when you got so messed up that you couldn't drive you'd check into the St. Francis Hotel across the street.For another couple of dollars you could sleep it off.

You're probably wondering what this has to do with boxing.Well,here it goes.The night I saw Jose Napoles make short work of Herbie Lee at the old downtown bullring me and my pals made the circuit afterwards up and down Revolution Street trying to commit every sin in the Good Book. Well,the Blue Fox was our last stop.Before gong inside we stopped at the corner drug store where at the counter they had these candy jars filled with uppers and downers. We made sure that we had a little of both.But after all the booze and the drugs we couldn't even walk straight.So it was off to the St, Francis to find sanctuary.At the desk the clerk asked me to sign my name.There in the register book I saw the name "Jose Napoles."Funny.I don't remember seeing him inside The Blue Fox.

Rising To Their Feet

Archie Moore was undoubtedly the most popular African/American fighter to fight in Tijuana. He was popular with the Mexican fans of the sport back in a time when the most of the great Mexican fighters were only a twinkle in their daddies' eyes. When Archie won the title from Joey Maxim in 1951 he fought a lot after thatHe didn't make the kind of money that the heavweight champ was bringing in so Archie stayed active.Some were defenses ,others were almost like exhibitions. In fact he fought a wrestler by the name of Roy Shire in some arena in Ogden,Utah.He fought once in San Diego at the old Coliseum against a journeyman heavyweight by the name of Frank Buford.Here is Archie Moore, the world champ and he calls San Diego his home and buys a house in the southeast part of town and puts in a swimming pool shaped like a boxing glove in the backyard and he's fighting as the champ at the old Coliseum that when filed to the doors is lucky to seat a couple of thousand.

Archie also fought in Tijuana at the bullring against the trial horse and his part time sparring partner, Howard King.Filled to capacity the downtown bullring could hold 10 thousand(BTW that structure was nothing but iron rod bleachers and it was lucky that thing didn't collapse.They finally condemned it in the 90's and built a new bullring out by the shore at the west end of the city)That fight with King was a big event in TJ.So big that Joe louis was the referee.

I saw Olivares fight a non title fight at the downtown bullring when El Puas was at the height of his fame and popularity. He fought some fighter from Japan.When Ruben was announced the crowd went wild. But before Olivares was presented at ring center the announcer brought up to the ring the guest of honor,Archie Moore. I couldn't believe it.When Moore climbed through the ropes everyone rose to their feet and wouldn't stop cheering. They weren't standing for Olivares.Archie was blowing kisses to the crowd an bowing up and down non stop.It was kind of hammy but that was Archie and they ate him up.

I saw Sugar Ray Robinson and Davey Moore fight in that bullring and I'll tell you the aficianados showed no love for either,especially Davey Moore. He almost didn't get out of that bullring alive.

There used to be a little bar just off Revolution Street near the Jai Alai Palace called the "El Prado." I used to go in there once in awhile to kind of relax. The place didn't get much action. There were no whores inside and no stage with some band blowing away.It was clean inside.A few booths,a short bar with about 5 or 6 stools. The room was softly lit and every time I went in there I was the only customer.The woman who owned the place was now running things since her husband had died. I used to see him at the fights down there.He was quite a fan.But now his wife had the place and she seemed kind of lonely. I think when her husband died she lost what business there was.She was entering her golden years and was very poised and presentable. She dressed finely and was dignified but open to talk to. Her presence had a reserved attractiveness that for me was alluring.We used to talk abut this and that,nothing important only to pass the time.I never got drunk in there and would have my one drink and leave.

On the wall by the booths there were four paintings of fighters. They belonged to her husband. There were painted in oils very well done. Nothing abstract or to emit a certain mood. Four fighters in classic boxing poses. A small light was above each painting to enhance the image.This was before I tried my hand at painting and I thought they were very beautiful.The fighters were Lauro Salas,Kid Azteca,Jose Napoles,and Archie Moore.I asked her if she'd sell them to me.
"No.I'm sorry.They were my husband's.I couldn't do that,"she said sorrowfully.

I didn't press the issue. I could tell she wanted to hang on to the paintings not that boxing interested her but because of the sentimentality. I asked her what was her husband's favorite of the four.
"The painting of Archie Moore,She answerewithout hesitating."He'd come in here when he visited Tijuana and he and my husband would talk for hours."

If I were to mention the name "Archie Moore" to anyone in Tijuana today I'd probably draw a lot of blank looks.And I'm sure no one would think of wanting o stand.


Archie Moore

Day Of The Dead

Day of the Dead,or as they refer to it in Mexico as Dia De Los Muertos,is celebrated on November 1st when family and friends go to the cemetery to remember loved ones who have passed from this Earth.On this day the departed return to the world of mortals thus their loved ones bring things that the deceased were fond of and time is spent reminiscing. Relatives most often bring a favorite food or something that distinguished the personalities of these lost souls. Of course the things are symbols. The dead don't reach out from the ground in a physical and grab whatever is left atop their gravesin ,but in a spiritual sense the things are "taken" spiritually and go with them back to eternity.Now that this has been established I'm thinking of what some of the bygone boxers of yesteryear would have left on their mounds of dirt.Here's my tongue in cheek list of 10

Jack Dempsey-a bag of plaster of Paris

Rocky Marciano-a plate of his mama's spaghetti with marinara sauce

Muhammad Ali-a record of Julie Andrews singing "I'm So Pretty"

Joe Louis-a list of names of the best tax relief attorneys

Sugar Ray Robinson-the key to the room at the Teresa Hotel in Harlem where he'd rendezvous with all his girlfriends.

Gene Tunney-a book of all of Shakespeare's plays

Jake La Motta-a book of all of Mickey Spillane's stories

Jack Johnson-a shiny gold tooth

John L. Sullivan-A bottle of rye

Art "Golden Boy" Aragon-an address book with all the Hollywood starlets' phone numbers

I don't know if anything will be left on my grave when the time comes and I'm afraid to give any hints of what I'd like.Halloween was just the day before and I have too many skeletons in my closet.

Kids in my wife's hometown of Jiquiipan celebrating Dia De Los Muertos

Something Besides Fighting

Forums,blog sites,whatever you call these things aren't to be taken too seriously. it's like sitting at the bar with a drink in front of you and you're watching the game on TV and everybody has their take on what's going on.Let's say you're at the bar watching the Monday Night Football game and in walks a Hall Of Fame football player and he he sidles up next to you and everyone is making a big fuss over this guy and they ask him who's going to win and he gives you his take, You'll right away get everyone at the bar putting in their two cents (not to say that it's worth anything more or less)but they'll go on like this sports talk is such a big deal.

Charles Lindbergh would get tired of people asking him about his solo flight across the Atlantic.
"I'm a different boy now,"he'd cut them off."Let's talk about something else."
It's like any forum on the internet. For instance you're not going to find on the BoxRec forum any contributors that once(or currently)relished in the mainstream of boxing whether they were ham and eggers or the champion of the world. They don't want to be caught up in all the arguments that eventually get personal. I can't blame them. Yet there are some. Tommy Morrison ,when he was battling his demons,was a poster on a site for awhile and then vanished."Gato" Gonzalez posted o few times on BoxRec,but it was his soulmate Barb who did the typing and made sure the syntax was in order.But he lost interest. I used to go into Burke Emery's bar down the street,Champs. Once in awhile there'd be some know it all who had had a few too many and he'd be chewing Burke's ear off about something about fighting.
"Burke.Don't you think Archie Moore was a good fighter?"
Burke would be amiable enough.
"Yep.He sure was."
Then it would go on and on.The rhetorical questions.The statements that were engraved on this guy's personal tablets of stone.But Burke would handle it his own way.
"I've got a dart tournament coming up tonight. I'll think I'll go over to the board and practice."

At the boxing conventions of course you'll find the fighters and they know they'll field an array of questions and compliments. But when things wrap up they'll usually be the first ones out the door. However,at these ceremonies it's the first time in awhile tat these fighters have seen each other so they'll stop and catch up on things.But some don't even stay around till the end.

Fighters for the most part are pretty down to earth and approachable ,but I try not to throw myself at them with my full weight.I don't think of trying to recapture their glorious moments in the ring and share those feelings. That's for them.Besides, most fighters get on with their lives. They want to talk about what everyone else talks about. They want to show you that there are more dimensions in their lives

At one Hall of Fame event in LA my wife and I were seated at a table with "Yaqui" Lopez. Randy de La O's cousin ,Louie Burke,was being inducted. I surprised Louie with a portrait. He was floored. It really moved him. He never thought anyone would do something like that for him.Lopez saw this and said to me that he thought artists were people to be respected and held in high esteem.I was an artist he thought.

Louie Burke and Alvaro ":Yaqui" Lopez that afternoon had the time of their lives. I was humbled to say the very least.I talked all that afternoon with those guys like we had known each other for years.And I never once mentioned fighting.


"Yaqui" Lopez giving me a smile you can't forget.


Randy De La O,Louie Burke holding his portrait,and the esteemed artist.
Later Louie sent me a nice thank you letter along with a bunch of stuff on his fighter he was training ,Austin Trout.It was a great day!

dagosd2000 wrote: ↑05 Oct 2018, 21:19 Boulder At An Exhibition

Sunday September 30th in the Garland Hotel banquet room,the former light heavyweight contender,John "The Iceman" Scully,(with Archie's Moore's daughter J'Marie Moore)stood at the dais to introduce The Mongoose,Archie Moore, into The West Coast Boxing Hall of Fame. Rick Farris,the Hall's president, tipped me off that Scully would be part of the presentation. I've posted on the forum how I would lend a hand at Moore's Any Boy Can Club after I finished up my daily stint at the Friendship School for handicapped children in East San Diego. I would pass Moore's club on my way home. It had been so long ago(in the early 80's)that I have forgotten where his ABC was located. A few years ago I tried to find the old place. Moore's boxing gym was situated in a little strip mall. A few years ago I tried to retrace my steps to see if there was at least a footprint.Maybe the strip mall was still there and then the deja vu would happen. But for the life of me,I kept driving around and around in circles. I couldn't find any strip mall. I thought the gym was on Federal Avenue.I drove up and down Federal and nothing felt familiar.

I knew Scully had a relationship with Moore.While he was an amateur fighter,Moore had a hand with Scully's development. I was sure that we could swap some stories about The Any Boy Can. Scully related to the crowd that he had asked Moore ,by mail,for an autograph. He included in his letter that he was an amateur fighter. Well typical Archie,he not only sent a signed picture,but he kept in touch with Scully through emails(this had to be in the 90's)giving him advice with his training.It might sound unorthodox,but Archie Moore wasn't a man you could pigeonhole into the common opening. Scully went on with his anecdotes,but didn't mention anything about the ABC.After the presentation ceremony concluded ,I asked Scully if he had ever honed his skills at Archie's boys club.To my surprise he told me he had never set foot in the place. He told me that maybe Moore's daughter could shed some light,but I couldn't locate her .


Oh well,it was no big deal.I drove back to Dan Diego not giving much thought about not having to share the experience with someone about that neighborhood landmark. I was anxious to bond,but that's life in the big boxing arena.

The other night I was re watching a documentary about Ali. I don't have the name of it at my fingertips. There's been so many of them.There have been so many people who have defined their lives with Ali. It was a codependency that had its positives and negatives. I don't think Ali would have ever wanted to fight Holmes if he didn't think it would awe his entourage.And when he passed away,his death cut a big part out of the lives of all the biographers,photographers,and film makers.Now they have to go on without him.


Watching the documentary something jumped out at me. We know Ali let his father paint the names of famous fighters on the big boulders beside the road at his Deer Lake training facility.I saw one documentary where Ali showed some of the art his dad had brushed on those big rocks.
"And here is the Joe Louis rock,"exclaimed Muhammad.
"And here's the Rocky Marciano rock."
"This is the Jack Johnson rock."
On and on and on,and then...
"This is the Archie Moore rock."
That woke me up. If there was anyone(maybe beside Joe Frazier)who wouldn't have cared if Ali went to jail for ducking the draft or got his ass kicked in a fight,inside the ring or out in the street,it was Archie "Mongoose" Moore. Joe Louis later softened his stance with Muhammad.Foreman idolizes him.So does Larry.Even Joe Frazier's son ,Marvis,said that the two adversaries settled things peacefully.I know Patterson always called him "Clay"(that was his Christian name so said Floyd),but you never never wanted to approach Archie Moore with a "Don't you think you should bury the hatchet?" proposition. I remember the times I was in his boys club,had lunch with him at Huffman's Barbeque,or would bump into him in Southeast San Diego I pretended that Cassius Marcelles Muhammad Ali Clay had been lobotomized from my brain.

After admiring that impressive "Archie Moore" rock,I can tell you for certain there were no photographs,newspaers,magazines,or fight posters with The Greatest gracing the covers inside The ABC. I think if I had mentioned his name,even in a derogatory sense,I wouldn't have been invited back.


So who's right and who's wrong?:Ali or Moore. It's none of my business.

Hey, it was good to meet you in Cali at the WC event. As far the ABC Club, I was, according to Archie, the last member (he told me that in a letter anyway). I still have the membership card in my scrapbook. I never actually made my way to San Diego train with him or anything but I still have all the letters he wrote, detailing the rules of the ABC etc.

ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY wrote: ↑03 Nov 2020, 18:35

dagosd2000 wrote: ↑05 Oct 2018, 21:19 Boulder At An Exhibition

Sunday September 30th in the Garland Hotel banquet room,the former light heavyweight contender,John "The Iceman" Scully,(with Archie's Moore's daughter J'Marie Moore)stood at the dais to introduce The Mongoose,Archie Moore, into The West Coast Boxing Hall of Fame. Rick Farris,the Hall's president, tipped me off that Scully would be part of the presentation. I've posted on the forum how I would lend a hand at Moore's Any Boy Can Club after I finished up my daily stint at the Friendship School for handicapped children in East San Diego. I would pass Moore's club on my way home. It had been so long ago(in the early 80's)that I have forgotten where his ABC was located. A few years ago I tried to find the old place. Moore's boxing gym was situated in a little strip mall. A few years ago I tried to retrace my steps to see if there was at least a footprint.Maybe the strip mall was still there and then the deja vu would happen. But for the life of me,I kept driving around and around in circles. I couldn't find any strip mall. I thought the gym was on Federal Avenue.I drove up and down Federal and nothing felt familiar.

I knew Scully had a relationship with Moore.While he was an amateur fighter,Moore had a hand with Scully's development. I was sure that we could swap some stories about The Any Boy Can. Scully related to the crowd that he had asked Moore ,by mail,for an autograph. He included in his letter that he was an amateur fighter. Well typical Archie,he not only sent a signed picture,but he kept in touch with Scully through emails(this had to be in the 90's)giving him advice with his training.It might sound unorthodox,but Archie Moore wasn't a man you could pigeonhole into the common opening. Scully went on with his anecdotes,but didn't mention anything about the ABC.After the presentation ceremony concluded ,I asked Scully if he had ever honed his skills at Archie's boys club.To my surprise he told me he had never set foot in the place. He told me that maybe Moore's daughter could shed some light,but I couldn't locate her .


Oh well,it was no big deal.I drove back to Dan Diego not giving much thought about not having to share the experience with someone about that neighborhood landmark. I was anxious to bond,but that's life in the big boxing arena.

The other night I was re watching a documentary about Ali. I don't have the name of it at my fingertips. There's been so many of them.There have been so many people who have defined their lives with Ali. It was a codependency that had its positives and negatives. I don't think Ali would have ever wanted to fight Holmes if he didn't think it would awe his entourage.And when he passed away,his death cut a big part out of the lives of all the biographers,photographers,and film makers.Now they have to go on without him.


Watching the documentary something jumped out at me. We know Ali let his father paint the names of famous fighters on the big boulders beside the road at his Deer Lake training facility.I saw one documentary where Ali showed some of the art his dad had brushed on those big rocks.
"And here is the Joe Louis rock,"exclaimed Muhammad.
"And here's the Rocky Marciano rock."
"This is the Jack Johnson rock."
On and on and on,and then...
"This is the Archie Moore rock."
That woke me up. If there was anyone(maybe beside Joe Frazier)who wouldn't have cared if Ali went to jail for ducking the draft or got his ass kicked in a fight,inside the ring or out in the street,it was Archie "Mongoose" Moore. Joe Louis later softened his stance with Muhammad.Foreman idolizes him.So does Larry.Even Joe Frazier's son ,Marvis,said that the two adversaries settled things peacefully.I know Patterson always called him "Clay"(that was his Christian name so said Floyd),but you never never wanted to approach Archie Moore with a "Don't you think you should bury the hatchet?" proposition. I remember the times I was in his boys club,had lunch with him at Huffman's Barbeque,or would bump into him in Southeast San Diego I pretended that Cassius Marcelles Muhammad Ali Clay had been lobotomized from my brain.

After admiring that impressive "Archie Moore" rock,I can tell you for certain there were no photographs,newspaers,magazines,or fight posters with The Greatest gracing the covers inside The ABC. I think if I had mentioned his name,even in a derogatory sense,I wouldn't have been invited back.


So who's right and who's wrong?:Ali or Moore. It's none of my business.

Hey, it was good to meet you in Cali at the WC event. As far the ABC Club, I was, according to Archie, the last member (he told me that in a letter anyway). I still have the membership card in my scrapbook. I never actually made my way to San Diego train with him or anything but I still have all the letters he wrote, detailing the rules of the ABC etc.

Very nice to hear from you John.I just got finished posting that fighters(former and present)don't usually post on these forums but you made me eat my words with that. I saw you fight on TV and you held your own with them all. Archie, as you know,was a man that wore his heart on his sleeve.I alway found it engrossing to hear him talk about everything from babies to boxing with his personal bent on each topic.He was like an open history book without all the dates and encyclopedia information.When you got done listening you got to thinking for awhile. I hope you're doing well.I miss your commentaries you used to do on TV. Best of luck and hope to hear from you soon.Roger

You too my man! I will be out in L.A. in March for the next WCBHOF...Nunn is getting inducted so I will do an amateur boxing reunion the day before. Gonna' be another great weekend!!

and Archie DEFINITELY had a unique way of speaking! I LIKED IT

ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY wrote: ↑03 Nov 2020, 21:12 You too my man! I will be out in L.A. in March for the next WCBHOF...Nunn is getting inducted so I will do an amateur boxing reunion the day before. Gonna' be another great weekend!!

I'll be there too.Looking forward to seeing everyone again . Take care.

Downtown Henry Brown

Henry Brown was my mentor teacher when I was working on my teaching credential. I got to know Henry through his brother Charley who I played football with at San Diego City College.Later,both Charley and Henry were on that all black football team The Ghetto Messengers until I broke the color line when they asked me if I wanted to play.I knew about half the guys on that team because they also played football at Lincoln High School and San Diego High.The other half brought me in with mixed feelings. If Henry and Charley asked me to play on the team I guess it was OK with the other guys. Henry was the team leader and the captain .I was a lineman and was good enough to start.We practiced at the community rec center field in Southeast San Diego. At that time it was a predominantly black neighborhood. Today,mostly Hispanics live in Southeast San Diego.There are no more predominantly black neighborhoods in San Diego

Jose Hall ran the rec center.I had never met him before.He was a big guy-6 foot 6 ,around 230 pounds. in the beginning I was feeling my way around and the guys who didn't know me were sizing me up.One day we were practicing with each other and Jose was lined up opposite me.We ran a play and after it was over Jose threw a punch at me that I ducked. This was the test. My response was pure reflex.I hit him back clipping him on the jaw. I stood there looking him in the eye with clenched fists as he looked at me trying to figure where go with this. But I knew that I was being tested. If I had backed down I would have lost face and eventually those guys would have turned their backs on me. I knew this insticntively. But then I knew I could get away with this because half the guys already knew me. If I had been a total stranger they would have jumped me for sure.

Well, after I answered back with Jose he turned away not showing any emotion.All the other guys were watching what had happened.I think the whole thing was set up.After that I was embraced by those guys-not accepted, but embraced. After practice sometimes I'd go out with those guys to their neighborhood bars.They were juke joint types-cement floors,a nicked up bar,low ceilings, low lights,worn out booths, and leaky bathrooms. Everything on the juke box was James Brown or Motown.I never felt uncomfortable and that let those guys speak naturally.

When I asked Henry to be my mentor teacher he had become a Muslim. He didn't smoke or drink.He was very reserved. My internship with Henry was at Juvenile Hall.After working a semester Henry would write up a progress report on my performance. Henry took me aside and gave me the forms and told me that I could fill them out myself and then he'd sign whatever I had written.

Between Henry playing high school football and being on that Ghetto Messenger team,and then becoming a teacher,Henry was an amateur fighter.I used to watch him fight at the San Diego Coliseum.He fought by the name of "Downtown" Henry Brown.Henry was undefeated and was a real crowd pleaser.Tall with a long reach he had good skills,coordination ,and was tough as nails. He was married at the time and had a son.Henry told me that he was going to give up fighting and get into teaching-something steady so he could provide for his family.He thought about turning pro but he backed out because he felt he wouldn't be handled right.When I was with him at the Hall I asked him about if he had any second thoughts about turning pro.
"I'm fine where I am right now. After my son went to prison my wife left me. I hit rock bottom.Then I found The Nation Of Islam.Today my religion wouldn't allow me to be a fighter.I'm fine with that."
"But Ali was a Muslim and he was a fighter,"
"He was also a great symbol for Elijah Muhammad's movement,."he said in a delicate tone of voice.

After I left Juvenile Hall with my teaching credential I found a job in the Sweetwater Union High School district by the border.Me and Henry stayed in touch. We'd go to lunch from time to time and touch bases.I asked him how the other guys on The Ghetto Team were doing. He told me that his brother,Charley, was a mail man,and that the other guys were staying out of trouble.

Then I got word from Charley that Henry had died.Prostrate cancer is what got him. I went to the service. It was a Muslim affair. His ex wife was there but they wouldn't let his son attend because he was still locked up.There were two factions at the service. One was Muslim.The other was all the rest.The "rest' consisted mostly of the teachers who had worked with Henry at Juvenile Hall. A lot of the Ghetto team was there too.I wouldn't say they were partial one way or the other,but thet were black guys..However,I could feel the tension. It was stupid. I can't say who started it. I don't know if The Muslims were looking for trouble or the "rest" wanted to start something,but there was a fight in the parking lot.I saw what was going on and walked away. I thought that if Henry could have seen this he would have walked away with me.


The old downtown Coiseum

If You Gotta' Tell them Who You Are You Ain't Nobody

That's what Joe louis said."If you gotta' tell them who you are you ain't nobody."And there were so many smug people out there ,especially after Joe Louis' retired, that thought he was a dummy. I think he knew that but didn't care.He was what he was and acted like he wanted so he didn't care what people thought.For example he couldn't understand Ali and the way he talked,but Ali didn't understand Louis either. in the end they grew close to each other.In ways there were much alike-the two most famous fighters in history.

I talked about how I met Joe Louis standing at the front of Caesar's Palace.I was with my wife. He was a "greeter." He was wearing that big cowboy hat and a sporty outfit. He looked like life was beginning to take its toll on him. This was in the 70's.There were some people who thought that being a "greeter" was demeaning. But Joe Louis didn't care. He needed the money.He was always broke. He didn't know how to make money and when he did they either scammed him out of it or he gave it away. Not lending it,but giving it away.

I talked to him for awhile and he asked me.Yes,me.
"Who do you think is the best fighter out there?"
Well,to score points I came back with something cute.
"Why you're the best."
He broke into a smile. he said that my wife was "pretty' and that pretty much summed it up.

Later, when I went back to coaching football at my former high school, Point Loma,one of Joe Louis' adopted kids was on the team.His name was John.This was in the mid 80's after Joe had passed away.John was very quiet and polite. He was a defensive back so me coaching the linemen didn't have much interaction with him.I wanted to engage him about his step dad but never got around to it. I didn't because I couldn't really think of anything to say.So what little conversation we had was about him and not about his step dad.I didn't want to come off a being presumptuous.

A few years ago Joe Louis's son,Joe Jr., posted something on the forum.It was something to do with correcting what a poster had written about his father. I forget what it was about but it was something minor. I PM'd him and asked him whatever happened to his step brother John. I never got reply. It was to my knowledge the only post from Louis' son.

But looking back on it-not getting into Joe Louis with his adopted son nor not getting any feedback from or Joe Jr. wasn't something I rued about. Let's face it,no one had to do any explaining about Joe Louis. We all knew who he was.

Joe Louis

Joe Louis statue inside Caesars Palace

The Detroit Flash

I was determined to go up to the Olympic Auditorium to watch Hedgemon Lewis and Ernie "Indian Red" Lopez fight in July of 1968 to see which one was the best welterweight in the Southland.Jose Napoles had finally made his U.S. debut at the Forum a few months earlier having evaporated journeyman Leroy Roberts inside round number 1.Jose had run through the best Mexico had to offer with the lightweights and welters, and with promoter George Parnassus behind him it would come down to Jose fighting either Lewis or Lopez to see who was best. Napoles would eventually get familiar with both Ernie and Hedge in title fights defending his crown twice with each one. But back in July of 68 the matchup with the two "L" boys was a natural. I liked the way Lewis fought.-the classic upright stance,a straight jab that would he'd follow with the right or combinations,,good foot movement,and he could slip and slide. Being from Detroit the comparison was circulating that we had another Ray Robinson in the making. Eddie Futch was his trainer and there was a contingent of Hollywood people like bill Cosby and Ryan O'Neal that were paying expenses.Aileen Eaton had him on early on TV to whet the fans appetites, and then took him off the tube so if you wanted to watch him fight you had to pay to get in the door.

Similar could be said about "Indian Red".Teddy Bentham was working his corner and wily Howie Steindler was calling the shots.The contrasts in the styles of the two almost cinched the fight as being something the fans would remember as getting their money's worth. Lopez was a bit crude.He didn't have the fluidity nor the combinations that Lewis could dispatch,but Ernie was the stronger.His strength was what eventually made the difference in his favor. I think Lopez sensed that going into the fight. Though Hedge had the flash,Ernie displaced that with the mightier force.He was hell bent to dismantle this cutie pie.

I wanted Lewis to win.To his credit he didn't run from Ernie,but his shots,though connecting,didn't seem to faze Lopez. In fact, it just made him more mad.It was toe to toe with the referee ,John Thomas,not having to do much but just tabulate his scorecard after each round. By the middle rounds you see Lewis beginning to crack. His 22 and 0 record would be showing his first loss before the night ended.During the 9th round Thomas got to do something besides use his pen and stepped in to prevent Lewis from absorbing any more punishment.

They'd fight two more times.Hedge earning the decision in the rematch even putting Lopez on the seat of his trunks. But in the rubber match it looked like a repetition of the first fight- another stoppage from by the stronger Lopez.

Hedgemon's lack of strength was to be his downfall with his attempts to gain a world title. In his first try against Napoles he stayed away too much and that cost him the decision.He fought Jose again for the works but the fight was in Mexico City ,at altitude,and again Lewis' stamina couldn't hold up. Then when he got a third chance against the new welter king,John Stracey,it was deja vu all over again. John was too strong for him.This would be Lewis' last fight.

I used to see Hedgemon Lewis a lot in San Diego and Tijuana.He was on many a main event and always gave the fans something to talk about.He was also in Eddie Futch's stable with Kenny Norton. I'd see them together quite often at the fights.

Several years back at the West Coast boxing Hall of Fame banquet,Hedgemon Lewis was being inducted.He couldn't be there.The toll of being a fighter had caught up with him .He was back home in Detroit living in a sanitarium. His sisters were there to accept his award. They spoke very highly of him.You could tell they were two of his biggest fans.Very proud of their brother.So was I.

Hedgemon Lewis

Rog, the first time I saw Hedge fight it was against Cassius 'Bo' Green and I thought he looked like the goods. I eventually saw both fights with Napoles, one of the Lopez fights and his fights with Palomino and Stracey. Man, he was so slick, but like you said, the rampaging style of Indian Red was a bit much for him on the nights and really evident in the clinches. I always felt that Hedge, Harold Weston and Angel Espada had about the most beautiful, relaxed styles, although Hedge fought with that low left. But it really was beauty to watch. And lest I forget to mention, IMO, Stracey wouldn't have had a chance against the '71 Lewis.

scartissue wrote: ↑06 Nov 2020, 14:05 Rog, the first time I saw Hedge fight it was against Cassius 'Bo' Green and I thought he looked like the goods. I eventually saw both fights with Napoles, one of the Lopez fights and his fights with Palomino and Stracey. Man, he was so slick, but like you said, the rampaging style of Indian Red was a bit much for him on the nights and really evident in the clinches. I always felt that Hedge, Harold Weston and Angel Espada had about the most beautiful, relaxed styles, although Hedge fought with that low left. But it really was beauty to watch. And lest I forget to mention, IMO, Stracey wouldn't have had a chance against the '71 Lewis.

Dan,I agree. You know Lewis got that low left from listening to Eddie Futch. Futch also instilled that with Norton. Frazier had a different body type so he just moved in and leaped with the hook. Futch believed if you carried the left low and brought the jab up with it an opponent wouldn't see it coming.The thing was though fighting that way you had to tuck your chin behind your shoulder.That was hard to do.

A Little Talked About Tactic

Dan Hanley mentioned that when Hedgemon Lewis fought "Indian Red" Lopez it was evident in the clinches that Lopez was the stronger man.Watching their first fight at the Olympic, Lopez wanted to establish that his edge in strength was going to be the factor that would determine his victory over the slicker Lewis. It's a planned strategy that is rarely mentioned when discussing a fight's aftermath.

But when we think of "clinching" we first think that it is initiated by a fighter that is either tired or just wants to "last."In Mexico it's against the rules to clinch. Also, in the amateurs clinching is a no no.But in the pros, clinching can be a wily if ugly way for a fighter to make his point.In the Lopez/Lewis fight Hedgemon was the slippery guy while Ernie was the guy trying to hit a fly with boxing gloves. To make Hedge understand who he was in there with Lopez grabbed him and worked him like a baker kneading his bread dough. Fighters know instantly in a clinch who is the stronger man. The tactic can make an immediate impression.It doesn't have to be a punch ,but just some rough stuff in the clinch-a good grab and a twist can make the other guy understand that he's in there with someone who who wants to maul as well as box. Now the other guy has to be on his toes.What boxing skills he knows have to be employed.In order not to get in over his head the weaker fighter has to rely on guile.The stronger man now has established his ground and that builds confidence,and makes his opponent acutely aware that he's in there not with a fighter but a beast.

Carlos Monzon ,when he knew that he was in there with a fighter of less strength,would muscle early his opponent.Let him know on the inside that he was stronger, and if you had a plan before,now it might be a good time to rethink your strategy.Monzon did that to Jose Napoles. He wrestled him in the clinches wrenching his torso around like a ball of silly putty. He did the same to Benvenuti in the rematch. When Nino felt that power he acted like a little "nino".He was totally psyched out.

The only way anyone had a chance to beat Floyd Mayweather was to mug him. Force him to the ropes and mug him. Use the laces,elbows,head,step on his toes,get him in a headlock. So you get a warning or two. It would be worth it. Don't let him take a breath.When Pacquiao fought him I knew after the 1st round that Manny's strategy would come up a cropper. Manny wanted to fight the best boxer in the world in the middle of the ring. Instead of turning it into a brawl Pacquiao wanted to box.I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

When it looked like no one could catch up with Willie Pep,Sammy Angott,who they called "The Clutch",knew the only way he could keep "The Will Of The Wisp"in low gear was to throw his body on him like an engine block. It's ugly but it's the only chance the slower guy can win. He may lose the quick draw but then he can take his gun butt and hit Billy the Kid over the head with it he'll take the quicker guy out of his game plan.

The word gets around in the gym what fighters are like in the ring.When Carlos Palomino was scheduled to fight John Stracey for the title he asked Hedgemon Lewis,who was beaten by the stronger Englishman,what he should take note of.Hedgemon told Carlos that Stracey was strong.So Carlos in training worked out with a light heavyweight. Palomino said that when Stracey tried to push on him that he pushed back harder.

Too bad that Hedgemon Lewis didn't have anybody that could have pushed on him in training camp.He would have looked good wearing the championship crown on his head.


Carlos Palomino and some guy sweating all over him