Manteca
Years ago I used to hear Mexican fighters talk about it.They'd say that they all were taught was to throw that left hook to the liver because the Mexican diet consists of food fried in a lot of lard,which they call manteca.Mexicans aren't supposed to have good stomachs and livers because all that pig fat builds up in those organs and weakens them;makes them sensitive to a good blow, especially the left hook. But if a fighter is a southpaw then his right hook isn't going to find his opponent's liver as easily. But then there's still room for a punch to the "panxa."
Marco Antonio Barrera wasn't an accomplished fighter early because at the start of his career that's all that he had in his arsenal-the left hook to the liver.When Junior Jones picked him apart Barrera went back to the gym and "woodshedded" developing an array of combinations and learning how to slip and counter. When he met the undefeated Erik Morales he came in the underdog but because the spin doctors wanted "El Terrible" to stay unbeaten they robbed Barrera of the decision. But the world could see Barrera was not the same one dimensional fighter anymore. HIs new boxing style propelled him up through the ranks beating Morales in the rematch and previously winning the featherweight title from Nassem Hamed.
The trainers in Mexico are much better today than they were say 30 years ago.It was not uncommon for a promising Mexican fighter to seek an American trainer like an Emanuel Steward to pick up more of the finer points.Julio Cesar Chavez went to Steward to learn some tricks to the trade.
I remember seeing the hard nosed Mexican bantamweight Julio Guerrero fight the flyweight champ,the Thai, Venice Borkhorsor in the Tijuana bullring. Borkhorsor was a lefty and Guerrero kept throwing his left hook to the body but Borkhorsor's elbow was right there and caught every one of Guerrero's left hooks. He had nothing else in his game plan to come up with.Borkhorsor knocked Guerrero out in the 6th round.
But looking at it today there are very few fighters who work downstairs anymore. They just about all head hunt and miss their target most of the time.If you want to see some decent body work it can still be noticed with the Mexican fighters.Let's face it. Those boys down Mexico way can't stay away from all those tacos and carnitas cooked in all that manteca. Why not try to hit them in the gut?
Another Mexican left hook artist-Ruben Olivares
Classic American West Coast Boxing
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dagosd2000
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The Dawn Patrol
Remember that movie "The Dawn Patrol"?The one with Errol Flynn and David Niven.It came out in 1937.It's about a Royal Flying Corps squadron in World War I and Errol Flynn is the squadron commander.Well,his best mate is David Niven who's the best flyer of the lot. One day Errol Flynn gets a call from HQ that a group of replacements are arriving to the base the next day.Turns out that one of the replacements is David Niven's "baby" brother.Flynn has orders to send up every available flyer the next day after they arrive to take on the German ace Von Richter and his pilots.But Niven's brother has just come out of flight school with only 9 hours of flight training. Niven strongly protests to Flynn that he can't send his brother up there with such little experience especially against the best pilot in the world,Von Richter.But Flynn is English proper and orders are orders and must be followed. Irregardless that his best friend's brother will probably not return from the mission the orders must be obeyed.Well, David Niven 's brother is shot down by Von Richter;Niven witnessing the episode.
On face value it was "suicide."Niven's brother never had a chance. But the squadron was lacking pilots and the only ones to fill the void were these green recruits.Now I want to make an analogy with a fighter and one of his fights. I worked with him at Juvenile Hall in San Diego when I was beginning my teaching career.The fighter's name is Gilbert Baptist.
In March of 1994 Gilbert was signed as an 11th hour replacement for Lamar Parks to challenge for Gerald McClellan's middleweight title.Parks was the number 1 ranked middleweight in the world at the time.But Parks had tested HIV positive before the bout and wasn't permitted to fight anymore. A replacement was needed ASAP.However, on such short notice a more qualified opponent would want time to train properly for the fight. Gilbert Baptist raised his hand and said he'd make a try and besides you could get him for a song.Gilbert had fought Parks the year before in a psuedo claim for some bogus middleweight claim. Gilbert lasted 11 rounds with Parks.That was his badge he wore on his chest.
Gerald McClellan was a house oi fire.He was on a win streak of 20 in a row on the way demolishing Julian Jackson and John Mugabi.He was the best middleweight in the world.And now a lamb was being led to the slaughter.Gilkbert was about to climb through ropes at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas in the biggest fight of his life.He had lost 15 fights in 44 attempts and his best win on his resume was really anyone's guess.You pick one.
I saw Gilbert after the fight while I was working at Point Loma High School.Gilbert was a probation officer then and he was at the school to check up one one of the kids in his case load.He was there with his young son Gilbert Jr.We talked first about how are things and what's new when he brought up the McClellan fight.He asked if I'd seen it.He told me he wanted to try to box McClellan and maybe take him into the later rounds and at least make a good show.But McClellan was too much for him.The fight ended in the middle of the 1st round when Gilbert went down for the second time. On his way to the canvas Gilbert broke his ankle.
Every time I watch the reply of the fight I think about that scene in the "Dawn Patrol" when David Niven is telling Errol Flynn that his brother has no chance of making it out alive against Von Richter.I guess Gilbert knew he wasn't going to beat Gerald McClellan but then he did get out of it alive yet suffering a broken ankle. It was his last fight. In his next defense McClellan would manhandle Julian Jackson again, and then he would face Nigel Benn.A broken ankle will heal in time.. What happened to Gerald McClellan will be with him till his end.
Remember that movie "The Dawn Patrol"?The one with Errol Flynn and David Niven.It came out in 1937.It's about a Royal Flying Corps squadron in World War I and Errol Flynn is the squadron commander.Well,his best mate is David Niven who's the best flyer of the lot. One day Errol Flynn gets a call from HQ that a group of replacements are arriving to the base the next day.Turns out that one of the replacements is David Niven's "baby" brother.Flynn has orders to send up every available flyer the next day after they arrive to take on the German ace Von Richter and his pilots.But Niven's brother has just come out of flight school with only 9 hours of flight training. Niven strongly protests to Flynn that he can't send his brother up there with such little experience especially against the best pilot in the world,Von Richter.But Flynn is English proper and orders are orders and must be followed. Irregardless that his best friend's brother will probably not return from the mission the orders must be obeyed.Well, David Niven 's brother is shot down by Von Richter;Niven witnessing the episode.
On face value it was "suicide."Niven's brother never had a chance. But the squadron was lacking pilots and the only ones to fill the void were these green recruits.Now I want to make an analogy with a fighter and one of his fights. I worked with him at Juvenile Hall in San Diego when I was beginning my teaching career.The fighter's name is Gilbert Baptist.
In March of 1994 Gilbert was signed as an 11th hour replacement for Lamar Parks to challenge for Gerald McClellan's middleweight title.Parks was the number 1 ranked middleweight in the world at the time.But Parks had tested HIV positive before the bout and wasn't permitted to fight anymore. A replacement was needed ASAP.However, on such short notice a more qualified opponent would want time to train properly for the fight. Gilbert Baptist raised his hand and said he'd make a try and besides you could get him for a song.Gilbert had fought Parks the year before in a psuedo claim for some bogus middleweight claim. Gilbert lasted 11 rounds with Parks.That was his badge he wore on his chest.
Gerald McClellan was a house oi fire.He was on a win streak of 20 in a row on the way demolishing Julian Jackson and John Mugabi.He was the best middleweight in the world.And now a lamb was being led to the slaughter.Gilkbert was about to climb through ropes at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas in the biggest fight of his life.He had lost 15 fights in 44 attempts and his best win on his resume was really anyone's guess.You pick one.
I saw Gilbert after the fight while I was working at Point Loma High School.Gilbert was a probation officer then and he was at the school to check up one one of the kids in his case load.He was there with his young son Gilbert Jr.We talked first about how are things and what's new when he brought up the McClellan fight.He asked if I'd seen it.He told me he wanted to try to box McClellan and maybe take him into the later rounds and at least make a good show.But McClellan was too much for him.The fight ended in the middle of the 1st round when Gilbert went down for the second time. On his way to the canvas Gilbert broke his ankle.
Every time I watch the reply of the fight I think about that scene in the "Dawn Patrol" when David Niven is telling Errol Flynn that his brother has no chance of making it out alive against Von Richter.I guess Gilbert knew he wasn't going to beat Gerald McClellan but then he did get out of it alive yet suffering a broken ankle. It was his last fight. In his next defense McClellan would manhandle Julian Jackson again, and then he would face Nigel Benn.A broken ankle will heal in time.. What happened to Gerald McClellan will be with him till his end.
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dagosd2000
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Old Bones
When I was a kid they had these "Old Timer Games" on the TV before the regular baseball game.Most of these "Old Timer" contests came from Yankee Stadium(like it was a big deal to see old Yankees stumbling around the bases), but every major league franchise had their "Old Timer Game." I remember one in San Diego featuring former Padres against past players from other teams. I don't know what people saw in these displays.I've always wanted to remember these guys when they were in their primes.I don't even want to see them when they're literally on their last legs still trying not to make an out.I remember one time watching one of these games in San Diego and Willie Mays was at the plate.He'd been out of baseball for a few years.His last team was the Mets.It was even tough watching him then. He had slowed considerably.He couldn't get around on a fastball anymore. That's a certain sign for a hitter that it's come time to plan a long vacation with the family..Well,Willie's in the batter's box and the Padre manager Roger Craig is on the mound.He'd been a pretty fair pitcher in his day. I remember him with the Dodgers and lastly with the Padres mostly.Usually in these games the pitcher "lets' the hitter have a "soft" one down the middle of the plate.I mean no one was interested in seeing what stuff Roger Craig had left.But no,he's slinging the 'ol pill has hard as he can and gets the Say Hey Kid to whiff on three pitches.That ain't entertainment. That's just painful to watch.
Next sport up to the "plate" so to speak-boxing.It's hard enough to see a former great like Willie Mays swing the bat like a rusty gate but to see a one time champion of the world get his ass kicked against some Kung Fu fighter is disgraceful.It shouldn't be allowed. It's embarrassing.It gives the sport a black eye.
Two quick ones that come to mind are Evander Holyfield quitting after the ref asked him if he wanted to go on after being sent to the canvas by a phantom punch by some MMA dude(actually the bout was a boxing match) and Riddick Bowe getting his shins kicked repaetedly until they turned purple by some Bruce Lee clone and then Bowe saying afterwards that Thai kickboxing is tougher than boxing.OUCH!
An ex fighting old fart should NEVER put on the gloves again.I want to remember him when he was the peerless pugilist. Getting blown away by the time his belly covers his genitals is humiliating.It's like he's forfeited his pride. Maybe he thought he was going to win, but he needs to listen to someone who has his interest at heart. But then again since when does a fighter listen to someone who only wants to make a quick buck off him?
Riddick Bowe yelling "OUCH!"
When I was a kid they had these "Old Timer Games" on the TV before the regular baseball game.Most of these "Old Timer" contests came from Yankee Stadium(like it was a big deal to see old Yankees stumbling around the bases), but every major league franchise had their "Old Timer Game." I remember one in San Diego featuring former Padres against past players from other teams. I don't know what people saw in these displays.I've always wanted to remember these guys when they were in their primes.I don't even want to see them when they're literally on their last legs still trying not to make an out.I remember one time watching one of these games in San Diego and Willie Mays was at the plate.He'd been out of baseball for a few years.His last team was the Mets.It was even tough watching him then. He had slowed considerably.He couldn't get around on a fastball anymore. That's a certain sign for a hitter that it's come time to plan a long vacation with the family..Well,Willie's in the batter's box and the Padre manager Roger Craig is on the mound.He'd been a pretty fair pitcher in his day. I remember him with the Dodgers and lastly with the Padres mostly.Usually in these games the pitcher "lets' the hitter have a "soft" one down the middle of the plate.I mean no one was interested in seeing what stuff Roger Craig had left.But no,he's slinging the 'ol pill has hard as he can and gets the Say Hey Kid to whiff on three pitches.That ain't entertainment. That's just painful to watch.
Next sport up to the "plate" so to speak-boxing.It's hard enough to see a former great like Willie Mays swing the bat like a rusty gate but to see a one time champion of the world get his ass kicked against some Kung Fu fighter is disgraceful.It shouldn't be allowed. It's embarrassing.It gives the sport a black eye.
Two quick ones that come to mind are Evander Holyfield quitting after the ref asked him if he wanted to go on after being sent to the canvas by a phantom punch by some MMA dude(actually the bout was a boxing match) and Riddick Bowe getting his shins kicked repaetedly until they turned purple by some Bruce Lee clone and then Bowe saying afterwards that Thai kickboxing is tougher than boxing.OUCH!
An ex fighting old fart should NEVER put on the gloves again.I want to remember him when he was the peerless pugilist. Getting blown away by the time his belly covers his genitals is humiliating.It's like he's forfeited his pride. Maybe he thought he was going to win, but he needs to listen to someone who has his interest at heart. But then again since when does a fighter listen to someone who only wants to make a quick buck off him?
Riddick Bowe yelling "OUCH!"
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The Bloke Grew On Me
Like I said before I didn't take to Tyson Fury at first. I thought he lousy boxing skills,his opponents were mediocre,he clowned around to much;there was nothing I could see in the guy.When Wilder fought him the first time I wanted Wilder to win, mainly because he was the American.To be frank I thought Wilder would mop the floor with him. But then Wilder wasn't showing that much until he clipped Fury and had him on his rear end. I thought that was going to lead to Fury's quick demise. But this guy gets up and has plenty of fight left in him.They called it a draw at the end and I had ho gripe.So now, naturally ,they put these two together again.
It was then that I began to realize that Fury wasn't shy about fighting anyone who posed a threat. After a couple of wins over two undefeated fighters Fury gets to test his mettle again against the big American. Meanwhile this Covid thing is throwing a monkey wrench into everything but the fight eventually comes off.
Well,these two may not write a treatise on the finer points of the Sweet Science but when it comes to fisticuffing they could both write a paper on how to mix it up in the back of an alley. Wilder climbs into the ring dressed as Darth Vader and by the 7th frame Fury has him looking more like Obi Wan Kenobi.So why not a trilogy?
Now my pendulum has swung to Fury's corner. Ok. So this guy doesn't float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.And he isn't as powerful as a locomotive.But the dude likes to fight. He ain't scared of nobody! In the 3rd go around they're bouncing up and down off the mat like Jack In The Boxes but it was Fury who got up last. Now I'm beginning to take to the big lug not only as a fighter but as a good 'ol boy. I see him interviewed and he makes me laugh.He displays wit and charm and doesn't have to put on any airs.He's not talking about his opponents saying he wants to eat their children or puts on a menacing face like he wants to stick the microphone up the interviewer's ass.He's got a pleasant manner talking about his kids and a nice smile to back it up.
They say 90 thou will be in attendance at Wembley. I remember Chavez packed 120 thousand in Estadio Azteca when he fought Haugen.BUT THOSE AFICIANADOS GOT IN THE DOOR FOR FREE.Saturday night the crowd will all be paying customers.I said I got some money down on Whyte.But if Fury wins I won't have too long a face.Fury's one bloke who's grown on me.
Like I said before I didn't take to Tyson Fury at first. I thought he lousy boxing skills,his opponents were mediocre,he clowned around to much;there was nothing I could see in the guy.When Wilder fought him the first time I wanted Wilder to win, mainly because he was the American.To be frank I thought Wilder would mop the floor with him. But then Wilder wasn't showing that much until he clipped Fury and had him on his rear end. I thought that was going to lead to Fury's quick demise. But this guy gets up and has plenty of fight left in him.They called it a draw at the end and I had ho gripe.So now, naturally ,they put these two together again.
It was then that I began to realize that Fury wasn't shy about fighting anyone who posed a threat. After a couple of wins over two undefeated fighters Fury gets to test his mettle again against the big American. Meanwhile this Covid thing is throwing a monkey wrench into everything but the fight eventually comes off.
Well,these two may not write a treatise on the finer points of the Sweet Science but when it comes to fisticuffing they could both write a paper on how to mix it up in the back of an alley. Wilder climbs into the ring dressed as Darth Vader and by the 7th frame Fury has him looking more like Obi Wan Kenobi.So why not a trilogy?
Now my pendulum has swung to Fury's corner. Ok. So this guy doesn't float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.And he isn't as powerful as a locomotive.But the dude likes to fight. He ain't scared of nobody! In the 3rd go around they're bouncing up and down off the mat like Jack In The Boxes but it was Fury who got up last. Now I'm beginning to take to the big lug not only as a fighter but as a good 'ol boy. I see him interviewed and he makes me laugh.He displays wit and charm and doesn't have to put on any airs.He's not talking about his opponents saying he wants to eat their children or puts on a menacing face like he wants to stick the microphone up the interviewer's ass.He's got a pleasant manner talking about his kids and a nice smile to back it up.
They say 90 thou will be in attendance at Wembley. I remember Chavez packed 120 thousand in Estadio Azteca when he fought Haugen.BUT THOSE AFICIANADOS GOT IN THE DOOR FOR FREE.Saturday night the crowd will all be paying customers.I said I got some money down on Whyte.But if Fury wins I won't have too long a face.Fury's one bloke who's grown on me.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I saw this today on the news.I wonder if I should show this to my wife.I'll tell her it's an amendment to the Constitution and that husbands have to be appreciated by their wives if asked to carry out the letter of the law.If she ignores my "request" I'll tell her she has violated the law and that ICE will come out to the house and have her deported.Knowing her she'll have already had her bags packed.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
See Ya' Mr. C Note
I got this out for seeing the PPV fights for nothin'.Like I've related before, I go to Tijuana. But I got skunked on this one. I drove down there this morning figuring I'd find a nice cozy little bar that was showing the fight and come back with a smile on my face thinking I had beaten the mutuals by watching the fight for the cost of a club soda.But to my dismay I couldn't find a bar that had the fight on the tube.Usually,you can see the advertising on the sides of the establishments as you walk down Revolution Street but there was nothing ballyhooing the fight that I noticed.Maybe they had blocked out the broadcast?
I went to one of my old standbys,the bar inside The Hotel Nelson on the corner of !st and Revolution,and found the inside as empty as synagogue on Sunday.I asked the bartender if he was going to show the Fury fight on the TV and he gave me this blank look like I didn't know what I was trying to put him on.
"I turn on the football(soccer) game in 5 minutes," he came back with.
"Well,aren't you going to show the heavyweight championship fight?"I countered.
"I turn on the football in 5 minutes ,"he repeated.
I remember back in the day if I went to TJ into a bar on a Sunday and asked if the barkeep if he could turn on the football(NFL ilk)game he'd give me a smirk and tell me everybody in his joint just watches soccer.I couldn't get a bartender in town to budge on anything but soccer.It was set in stone.
However,in the last 20 years or so the pendulum has swung. Now on a Sunday it's NFL football mostly.But if there's a big fight, that for the most part takes priority.It doesn't necessarily have to be a Mexican in the ring. The PacMan/ Mayweather fight was a biggie and made the bars plenty of pesos and gringo dollars.But today I might have well asked if they were going to put Julia Child's,The French Chef, cooking show on the screen. So I drove back to San Diego.
AS I was waiting in the line to cross it suddenly dawned on me that the Agua Caliente Sports Book had the fight. Hell,that's where I put down a hundred dollars betting Whyte to upset Fury.But then there would be a cover at the door. I said the hell with it.I'll go back to San Diego and catch the replay on my computer.I just got done doing that.
It's like giving the finger to a blind man and not getting a hit in the mouth analyzing a fight after everybody has left the arena,but I'll give you my quick take on it.First I want to say that I had never seen Dillian Whtye fight before.But this little birdie had told me that Whyte was going to upset the applecart.Whyte had something like 4 to 1 odds to kick the wheels out from under that applecart. So I laid down a C Note on the guy I had never seen fight before to win by any means necessary.
OK.Now to tell you what you already know if you've seen the fight.I'll cut to the chase. The fight was pretty much even ,Fury in slight control,Whyte unable to get inside and cut the distance. He stood straight up like a good soldier and then near the close of the 6th round Fury got between Whyte's glove and whacked him with a short uppercut.Say adios to the hundred.
But like I said yesterday;that if Fury won I wouldn't go home and kick my dog.I just walked in the door and reminded my wife that it was National Vagina Appreciation Day..She told me why would I care.I don't have a pussy.
The Hotel Nelson in Tijuana
I got this out for seeing the PPV fights for nothin'.Like I've related before, I go to Tijuana. But I got skunked on this one. I drove down there this morning figuring I'd find a nice cozy little bar that was showing the fight and come back with a smile on my face thinking I had beaten the mutuals by watching the fight for the cost of a club soda.But to my dismay I couldn't find a bar that had the fight on the tube.Usually,you can see the advertising on the sides of the establishments as you walk down Revolution Street but there was nothing ballyhooing the fight that I noticed.Maybe they had blocked out the broadcast?
I went to one of my old standbys,the bar inside The Hotel Nelson on the corner of !st and Revolution,and found the inside as empty as synagogue on Sunday.I asked the bartender if he was going to show the Fury fight on the TV and he gave me this blank look like I didn't know what I was trying to put him on.
"I turn on the football(soccer) game in 5 minutes," he came back with.
"Well,aren't you going to show the heavyweight championship fight?"I countered.
"I turn on the football in 5 minutes ,"he repeated.
I remember back in the day if I went to TJ into a bar on a Sunday and asked if the barkeep if he could turn on the football(NFL ilk)game he'd give me a smirk and tell me everybody in his joint just watches soccer.I couldn't get a bartender in town to budge on anything but soccer.It was set in stone.
However,in the last 20 years or so the pendulum has swung. Now on a Sunday it's NFL football mostly.But if there's a big fight, that for the most part takes priority.It doesn't necessarily have to be a Mexican in the ring. The PacMan/ Mayweather fight was a biggie and made the bars plenty of pesos and gringo dollars.But today I might have well asked if they were going to put Julia Child's,The French Chef, cooking show on the screen. So I drove back to San Diego.
AS I was waiting in the line to cross it suddenly dawned on me that the Agua Caliente Sports Book had the fight. Hell,that's where I put down a hundred dollars betting Whyte to upset Fury.But then there would be a cover at the door. I said the hell with it.I'll go back to San Diego and catch the replay on my computer.I just got done doing that.
It's like giving the finger to a blind man and not getting a hit in the mouth analyzing a fight after everybody has left the arena,but I'll give you my quick take on it.First I want to say that I had never seen Dillian Whtye fight before.But this little birdie had told me that Whyte was going to upset the applecart.Whyte had something like 4 to 1 odds to kick the wheels out from under that applecart. So I laid down a C Note on the guy I had never seen fight before to win by any means necessary.
OK.Now to tell you what you already know if you've seen the fight.I'll cut to the chase. The fight was pretty much even ,Fury in slight control,Whyte unable to get inside and cut the distance. He stood straight up like a good soldier and then near the close of the 6th round Fury got between Whyte's glove and whacked him with a short uppercut.Say adios to the hundred.
But like I said yesterday;that if Fury won I wouldn't go home and kick my dog.I just walked in the door and reminded my wife that it was National Vagina Appreciation Day..She told me why would I care.I don't have a pussy.
The Hotel Nelson in Tijuana
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Fan Appeal
I guess you can pull a gun on Mike Tyson and you'll probably get a warm hug from the big guy.But get drunk and become overzealous in your adulation of the former champ and Mike will beat you senseless,or at least try to.
By now you've all probably seen this video on YouTube of Mike on this plane being bugged by this drunk in the seat behind him and Mike finally having enough of this guy's banter,reaches behind,and starts to unload a two fistic barrage on this guy's mug.
Now Mike says that the guy threw a water bottle at him. Maybe he called him "carzy" and an "idiot" Well,you don't see this water bottle nor is there any sound on the video.The guy later said he is(or was) a big fan of Mike's and that he wouldn't throw a water bottle at his idol. Sure enough every opportunistic lawyer wanted to counsel this guy and I wish I had a law degree right now.
Mike,even if the guy had thrown a water bottle or called you a name, remember, you were once the baddest ass on the planet being the heavyweight champ of the world with a nickname of Iron Mike,and how many times did you lose it with some reporter who asked you a question that you suddenly discerned as being disrespectful,went to the pen on a rape charge, and had your wife talking to a national TV audience that she was scared to death of you because she never knew when you'd flip your switch and go baliistic.I don't know how much money you have but I sure wished I had that law degree and that guy's phone number a few days ago.
I don't know whether to laugh at this or not.Looking at this guy's pan ,with the blood on his face, at the end makes me wish I had studied law.
I guess you can pull a gun on Mike Tyson and you'll probably get a warm hug from the big guy.But get drunk and become overzealous in your adulation of the former champ and Mike will beat you senseless,or at least try to.
By now you've all probably seen this video on YouTube of Mike on this plane being bugged by this drunk in the seat behind him and Mike finally having enough of this guy's banter,reaches behind,and starts to unload a two fistic barrage on this guy's mug.
Now Mike says that the guy threw a water bottle at him. Maybe he called him "carzy" and an "idiot"
Well,you don't see this water bottle nor is there any sound on the video.The guy later said he is(or was) a big fan of Mike's and that he wouldn't throw a water bottle at his idol. Sure enough every opportunistic lawyer wanted to counsel this guy and I wish I had a law degree right now.Mike,even if the guy had thrown a water bottle or called you a name, remember, you were once the baddest ass on the planet being the heavyweight champ of the world with a nickname of Iron Mike,and how many times did you lose it with some reporter who asked you a question that you suddenly discerned as being disrespectful,went to the pen on a rape charge, and had your wife talking to a national TV audience that she was scared to death of you because she never knew when you'd flip your switch and go baliistic.I don't know how much money you have but I sure wished I had that law degree and that guy's phone number a few days ago.
I don't know whether to laugh at this or not.Looking at this guy's pan ,with the blood on his face, at the end makes me wish I had studied law.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
And I forgot to mention you tried to bite another fighter's ear off in the ring.You'll settle with this one.You'd come out looking really bad in court if this went to trial.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Imagine if you were Mike Tyson's lawyer and you put him up on the witness stand on an A&B beef and let him get cross examined by the other guy's lawyer?Next thing you know Mike loses it and calls the guy he beat up a faggot,a piece of s--t white boy ,and wants to kick his ass again.Can you say "Settle out of court?"
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The Last Touch
The "baby boomers" are growing old. They've retired from their jobs,getting long in the tooth with the aches and the pains in their joints,the stooped shoulders struggling to stand erect as before.The want of teeth and hair.Bending over so they can hear something that isn't important..Glasses for reading.Glasses to see far away.They talk to about their touches with the past to the generations that have followed. About that last era that seemed to make more sense and was a lot simpler yet so many millions died from bombs and death camps and were swayed by madmen.So today if they listen it's out of respect of the elderly but they really don't take much credence with those distant stories and want to get back to their smart phones to find out if they've missed something.
Boxing is a black and white footprint. A montage of grainy film of the names that filled the history books.The names that once were esteemed yet many have been pulled down by ropes and broken by sledgehammers.But for the most part they are only names that might ring a bell but leave no resonance.
I remember when Jack Dempsey came over to eat spaghetti at Diamond Joe's big house that's no longer there so they could make room for the university. Capone 20 years earlier in the Bella Napoli had tried to put the bite on Jack to throw the fight against Tunney in The Windy City but Jack knew he couldn't beat Gene by then. When Ray Robinson told my old man that he thought the drive by bullets were aiming at him instead of that shylock lawyer who had dropped a dime on The Oufit.I was holding my father's hand as Sugar Ray was shaking his head.The there was the time in Bob Johnston's bar next to his Hollywood Theater the last burlesque house in the 48 when there I was with the old man in Johnston's back room and Doc Kearns is holding court and Bob's brother Charley who was handling The Mongoose at the time asked Doc to run down again about how he loaded Dempsey's gloves in Toledo.Doc was telling it like it was the very first time he let the cat out of the bag.How about when Louie Rodriguez wins against the Mexican to get his shot at Benvenuti's crown and my old man is walking into the dressing room when it's over with Angelo Dundee arm in arm.Hey.I saw Max Baer at the Del Mar Hotel out in the patio during the horseracing season and I was at the stand buying a hot dog and turned around and I ran smack dab into the Livermore Larruper.He was laughing I wasn't.I know he did it on purpose.
It all seemed like nothing then. My old man bringing Red Grange over to the house and they talked about the Bears and Halas being a tightwad. Victor McLaglen in the elevator at The Ambassador Hotel causing my mother to blush. She had a thing for brutes.To her they were just little boys.I could never find anything about him reminiscing about Jack Johnson.
Today it seems like something out of a dream. So long ago.Not just right behind me especially when I tell my grandchildren about back then. But they have respect for their grandfather and they pose like they're absorbing everything even though they don't understand a word of what I'm saying. I guess you have had to have touched that time for it to be real.
Sugar Ray Robinson
The "baby boomers" are growing old. They've retired from their jobs,getting long in the tooth with the aches and the pains in their joints,the stooped shoulders struggling to stand erect as before.The want of teeth and hair.Bending over so they can hear something that isn't important..Glasses for reading.Glasses to see far away.They talk to about their touches with the past to the generations that have followed. About that last era that seemed to make more sense and was a lot simpler yet so many millions died from bombs and death camps and were swayed by madmen.So today if they listen it's out of respect of the elderly but they really don't take much credence with those distant stories and want to get back to their smart phones to find out if they've missed something.
Boxing is a black and white footprint. A montage of grainy film of the names that filled the history books.The names that once were esteemed yet many have been pulled down by ropes and broken by sledgehammers.But for the most part they are only names that might ring a bell but leave no resonance.
I remember when Jack Dempsey came over to eat spaghetti at Diamond Joe's big house that's no longer there so they could make room for the university. Capone 20 years earlier in the Bella Napoli had tried to put the bite on Jack to throw the fight against Tunney in The Windy City but Jack knew he couldn't beat Gene by then. When Ray Robinson told my old man that he thought the drive by bullets were aiming at him instead of that shylock lawyer who had dropped a dime on The Oufit.I was holding my father's hand as Sugar Ray was shaking his head.The there was the time in Bob Johnston's bar next to his Hollywood Theater the last burlesque house in the 48 when there I was with the old man in Johnston's back room and Doc Kearns is holding court and Bob's brother Charley who was handling The Mongoose at the time asked Doc to run down again about how he loaded Dempsey's gloves in Toledo.Doc was telling it like it was the very first time he let the cat out of the bag.How about when Louie Rodriguez wins against the Mexican to get his shot at Benvenuti's crown and my old man is walking into the dressing room when it's over with Angelo Dundee arm in arm.Hey.I saw Max Baer at the Del Mar Hotel out in the patio during the horseracing season and I was at the stand buying a hot dog and turned around and I ran smack dab into the Livermore Larruper.He was laughing I wasn't.I know he did it on purpose.
It all seemed like nothing then. My old man bringing Red Grange over to the house and they talked about the Bears and Halas being a tightwad. Victor McLaglen in the elevator at The Ambassador Hotel causing my mother to blush. She had a thing for brutes.To her they were just little boys.I could never find anything about him reminiscing about Jack Johnson.
Today it seems like something out of a dream. So long ago.Not just right behind me especially when I tell my grandchildren about back then. But they have respect for their grandfather and they pose like they're absorbing everything even though they don't understand a word of what I'm saying. I guess you have had to have touched that time for it to be real.
Sugar Ray Robinson
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
First Sightings
The fighters today can't execute the "boxing" skills like their predecessors of say 30,40 years ago and more. You'd turn on the black and white to the channel of the Friday Night Fights back in the 50's and take for granted the two fighters in the main event could teach a class on the fundamentals of the Sweet Science in any boxing gym or achoolyard in the country.Fighters that I see now haven't had the mentoring of good trainers because there aren't many heads up instructors walking the streets.Go to a gym today that proclaims that they can teach your "Little Johnny" a thing or two about how to box and the guy with the Q Tip in his mouth might as well choke on it. He fakes it and his pupil unknowingly is duped. But it's all nothing sinister.Just the blind leading the blind.
The legend has it that Jim Corbett was the forerunner of the skilled fighter.There's Corbett in there with Fitzsimmons on that archaic film clip but I don't see anything so fancy with Gentleman Jim. I was watching that movie the other night,"Gentleman JIm" starring Errol Flynn as Jim Corbett and Ward Bond playing the part of John L. Sullivan.I once saw a blurb of Ray Mancini,Angelo Dundee,and Bert Sugar critiquing the boxing segments of the movie agreeing that Errol Flynn had it as a "natural" when it came to boxing. Dundee even said he wished he could have been around back then and pulled Flynn into the gym and make him into a champion.I wished I could have sat in with those three guys and shared whatever they were smoking.When "Gentleman Jim" was released in 1942 Flynn's chain smoking,hard drinking,and drug abuse resulted in damaging his heart. He flunked his physicals with every branch of the military for having a bad ticker. The boxing scenes in the movie could only be filmed in 30 second intervals because Flynn's wind would flag if the shot took any longer.But a lot of folks thought that Errol Flynn's depiction was genuine but like the old saying goes,"It's only a many."
My first vision of an old time fighter that exhibited boxing skills was watching Joe Gans fight Battling Nelson on those grainy celluloid clips.Even with the TB eating his lungs away Old Bones showed that he still had the goods.Then there was Jack Johnson.Those two were sharp,not a couple of lungers who swung wildly and stayed locked in the clinches.Ray Arcel swore Benny Leonard was the best of them all but the only film I've seen with Leonard are snippets of his fight with Lew Tendler. I'm not really sold on that glimpse but then again going back that far there's not much in the can of many of the "great ones."Barney Ross comes to mind.Watch him fight Jimmy McLarnin. The Irishman is not in Ross' league.It's too bad we don't have Ray Robinson's fights to watch on YouTube when he was the dominant welterweight. And of course everyone talks bout Charley Burley and how he could have beaten Ray.Those guys who saw Burley are all dead by now. But to watch that lone clip of Burley in there with Oakland Billy Smith only makes me scratch my head.
Well, I don't see a renaissance in boxing when it comes to seeing fighters who will make me forget about the masters of yesteryear.Try to explain that to the Z Generation and they'll give you an "F" for effort in trying to convince them otherwise.
Joe Gans
The fighters today can't execute the "boxing" skills like their predecessors of say 30,40 years ago and more. You'd turn on the black and white to the channel of the Friday Night Fights back in the 50's and take for granted the two fighters in the main event could teach a class on the fundamentals of the Sweet Science in any boxing gym or achoolyard in the country.Fighters that I see now haven't had the mentoring of good trainers because there aren't many heads up instructors walking the streets.Go to a gym today that proclaims that they can teach your "Little Johnny" a thing or two about how to box and the guy with the Q Tip in his mouth might as well choke on it. He fakes it and his pupil unknowingly is duped. But it's all nothing sinister.Just the blind leading the blind.
The legend has it that Jim Corbett was the forerunner of the skilled fighter.There's Corbett in there with Fitzsimmons on that archaic film clip but I don't see anything so fancy with Gentleman Jim. I was watching that movie the other night,"Gentleman JIm" starring Errol Flynn as Jim Corbett and Ward Bond playing the part of John L. Sullivan.I once saw a blurb of Ray Mancini,Angelo Dundee,and Bert Sugar critiquing the boxing segments of the movie agreeing that Errol Flynn had it as a "natural" when it came to boxing. Dundee even said he wished he could have been around back then and pulled Flynn into the gym and make him into a champion.I wished I could have sat in with those three guys and shared whatever they were smoking.When "Gentleman Jim" was released in 1942 Flynn's chain smoking,hard drinking,and drug abuse resulted in damaging his heart. He flunked his physicals with every branch of the military for having a bad ticker. The boxing scenes in the movie could only be filmed in 30 second intervals because Flynn's wind would flag if the shot took any longer.But a lot of folks thought that Errol Flynn's depiction was genuine but like the old saying goes,"It's only a many."
My first vision of an old time fighter that exhibited boxing skills was watching Joe Gans fight Battling Nelson on those grainy celluloid clips.Even with the TB eating his lungs away Old Bones showed that he still had the goods.Then there was Jack Johnson.Those two were sharp,not a couple of lungers who swung wildly and stayed locked in the clinches.Ray Arcel swore Benny Leonard was the best of them all but the only film I've seen with Leonard are snippets of his fight with Lew Tendler. I'm not really sold on that glimpse but then again going back that far there's not much in the can of many of the "great ones."Barney Ross comes to mind.Watch him fight Jimmy McLarnin. The Irishman is not in Ross' league.It's too bad we don't have Ray Robinson's fights to watch on YouTube when he was the dominant welterweight. And of course everyone talks bout Charley Burley and how he could have beaten Ray.Those guys who saw Burley are all dead by now. But to watch that lone clip of Burley in there with Oakland Billy Smith only makes me scratch my head.
Well, I don't see a renaissance in boxing when it comes to seeing fighters who will make me forget about the masters of yesteryear.Try to explain that to the Z Generation and they'll give you an "F" for effort in trying to convince them otherwise.
Joe Gans
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
An Oscar For Oscar
It's been bounced around many times in boxing circles especially within the arcs of the Southland .The Chicano fighter wasn't the guy the aficianados were puliin' for when he was matched up with the Mexican national in the ring. I've heard Albert Davila talk about it. Don't think there wasn't some resentment there. Davila even added an "o" at the end of "Albert" to try to draw those fans into his camp. I'd say "Nice try" but who was going to buy that?
But if you're an outsider when it concerns this racial barrier don't start to feel sorry right away for the fighters with the Mexican blood in their veins and the American passports in their dresser drawers.
Oscar De La Hoya was probably the perfect test case when it came to examining this uncompromising hang up of the Mexican fight fan in Los Angeles. And don't misread this. There were plenty of Chicanos at the Olympic Auditorium that were cheering on their Mexican "brothers" too.Maybe they were thinking with their hearts more than that what it said on their birth certificates.But Oscar was aware of this tone of the Mexican fight fan ever since he was weaned off the chi chi and started drinking milk out of the carton in kindergarten. Don't think that Oscar De La Hoya didn't want to get even when he faced an opponent from the patria chica from across the border. Yeah, most of those fighters grew up riding horses and living in pueblos with dirt roads and cornfields as far as the eye could see unless they sprung from the barrios of the big cities where you'd wake up in the morning to find the rats in the streets running through the dead bodies.
Oscar De La Hoya never lost a fight to a Mexican national(nor a Chicano).When he stopped the idol of Mexico boxing twice,Julio Cesar Chavez,that must have left a nice savor inside De La Hoya's mouth. Don't think that those two victories put two more nails into Oscar's celebrity coffin South Of The Border.
De La Hoya never fought in Mexico.When he won the Olympic flyweight Gold Medal I remember hearing the Mexican news report something like,"And Oscar De La Hoya,the American,won the the Gold Medal."Please pass the salsa. There was no pomp and circumstance.No fanfare. It was just a necessary footnote.
On top of that Oscar married a "gringa" and then after that relationship fell apart he wedded a Puerto Rican gal.Talk about a rivalry! In 2002 Oscar applied for Mexican citizenship with the consulate in LA. He is now a "Mexican" also.But I think if they had to have voted on that in Mexico Oscar would still be only a gringo.
But I like Oscar.He wasn't a great fighter.He came up a cropper against all the non Mexican national greats-Mosley,Trinidad,Hopkins,PacMan,Mayweather. But then he seemed to have that "Eye Of The Tiger" only when he fought his own kind so to speak.
It was a few years ago at Rick Farris' West Coast Boxing bash up in LA.They were inducting De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotion's matchmaker,one of his East LA Chicano buddies. There's Oscar to honor his friend at a table surrounded by a throng of fans.He's the star of the show. He can't help but flash his amiabilty.He's got that unassuming mother's boy face and when he smiles he knocks out the women with his drop dead looks.
Well, I'm at the event with my wife.Now she knows Oscar more for his post boxing celeb status than a fighter. She gets out her little camera and rushes over to Oscar's table elbowing and pushing through the mass of people.She yells something to Oscar and he turns his head around towards her.My wife had taken aim. Oscar stopped what he was in the midst of and gave her the smile. She took the picture.The picture came out blurry but my wife thought it should have won a Pulitzer Prize. She's got the picture someplace.
But you know when I looked at that picture I saw a guy that's all right in my book.He saw an old lady who was smitten with him and he didn't want to let her down.He took the time. He knew it was important for her. He's a kid still. He gives to the community building schools and clinics. He's a good guy without bragging. He was never one of these macho men who wanted the world to know that he wasn't going to take s--t from anybody.He wasn't Pancho Villa.Maybe He didn't have to spit on the floor and grab his crotch.Maybe that's why those aficianados with the pulque in one hand and the pistola in the other never took to him, Asi es Mexico.
Oscar De La Hoya
It's been bounced around many times in boxing circles especially within the arcs of the Southland .The Chicano fighter wasn't the guy the aficianados were puliin' for when he was matched up with the Mexican national in the ring. I've heard Albert Davila talk about it. Don't think there wasn't some resentment there. Davila even added an "o" at the end of "Albert" to try to draw those fans into his camp. I'd say "Nice try" but who was going to buy that?
But if you're an outsider when it concerns this racial barrier don't start to feel sorry right away for the fighters with the Mexican blood in their veins and the American passports in their dresser drawers.
Oscar De La Hoya was probably the perfect test case when it came to examining this uncompromising hang up of the Mexican fight fan in Los Angeles. And don't misread this. There were plenty of Chicanos at the Olympic Auditorium that were cheering on their Mexican "brothers" too.Maybe they were thinking with their hearts more than that what it said on their birth certificates.But Oscar was aware of this tone of the Mexican fight fan ever since he was weaned off the chi chi and started drinking milk out of the carton in kindergarten. Don't think that Oscar De La Hoya didn't want to get even when he faced an opponent from the patria chica from across the border. Yeah, most of those fighters grew up riding horses and living in pueblos with dirt roads and cornfields as far as the eye could see unless they sprung from the barrios of the big cities where you'd wake up in the morning to find the rats in the streets running through the dead bodies.
Oscar De La Hoya never lost a fight to a Mexican national(nor a Chicano).When he stopped the idol of Mexico boxing twice,Julio Cesar Chavez,that must have left a nice savor inside De La Hoya's mouth. Don't think that those two victories put two more nails into Oscar's celebrity coffin South Of The Border.
De La Hoya never fought in Mexico.When he won the Olympic flyweight Gold Medal I remember hearing the Mexican news report something like,"And Oscar De La Hoya,the American,won the the Gold Medal."Please pass the salsa. There was no pomp and circumstance.No fanfare. It was just a necessary footnote.
On top of that Oscar married a "gringa" and then after that relationship fell apart he wedded a Puerto Rican gal.Talk about a rivalry! In 2002 Oscar applied for Mexican citizenship with the consulate in LA. He is now a "Mexican" also.But I think if they had to have voted on that in Mexico Oscar would still be only a gringo.
But I like Oscar.He wasn't a great fighter.He came up a cropper against all the non Mexican national greats-Mosley,Trinidad,Hopkins,PacMan,Mayweather. But then he seemed to have that "Eye Of The Tiger" only when he fought his own kind so to speak.
It was a few years ago at Rick Farris' West Coast Boxing bash up in LA.They were inducting De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotion's matchmaker,one of his East LA Chicano buddies. There's Oscar to honor his friend at a table surrounded by a throng of fans.He's the star of the show. He can't help but flash his amiabilty.He's got that unassuming mother's boy face and when he smiles he knocks out the women with his drop dead looks.
Well, I'm at the event with my wife.Now she knows Oscar more for his post boxing celeb status than a fighter. She gets out her little camera and rushes over to Oscar's table elbowing and pushing through the mass of people.She yells something to Oscar and he turns his head around towards her.My wife had taken aim. Oscar stopped what he was in the midst of and gave her the smile. She took the picture.The picture came out blurry but my wife thought it should have won a Pulitzer Prize. She's got the picture someplace.
But you know when I looked at that picture I saw a guy that's all right in my book.He saw an old lady who was smitten with him and he didn't want to let her down.He took the time. He knew it was important for her. He's a kid still. He gives to the community building schools and clinics. He's a good guy without bragging. He was never one of these macho men who wanted the world to know that he wasn't going to take s--t from anybody.He wasn't Pancho Villa.Maybe He didn't have to spit on the floor and grab his crotch.Maybe that's why those aficianados with the pulque in one hand and the pistola in the other never took to him, Asi es Mexico.
Oscar De La Hoya
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The Customer Is Always Right(When You're Inside Champs)
I remember when Burke Emery was bartending at O'Riley's before him and his girlfriend Shirley went in together on the joint and had it for themselves.Burke was still in pretty good shape then. He could talk about fighting but it was only if you brought up the subject.After he worked his shift Burke would switch to the other side of the bar and lend anybody his ear.To be honest just about all those who frequented O'Riley's and got to talkin' to Burke wanted to put in THEIR 2 cents about the Sweet Science. If they did ask Burke a question like "Who was the best fighter?"; before Burke could counter with a name the asker would interrupt him and announce to the bar in a big loud voice throwing out his chest who HE thought was the all time P4P.But you know what? Burke would let the know it all(who was usually three sheets to the wind)that he was right on the mark and give him a pat on the back..
I mean what the hell did Burke care anyway? He'd been a fighter and a pretty good one. He was the Canadian light heavy champ for a spell in the 50's.He settled in San Diego and worked training a stable of fighters including Art Hafey who was a close to winning the 125 title.He knew everybody worth knowing who was connected with the sport up and down the coast and across the 48 and including Alaska and Hawaii. Maybe he figured if he got into a disagreement he'd run out a customer. But I don't think it as that.
All that "who could beat who" stuff and "who was the best" is all hypothetical anyway and it wasn't worth getting all excited about it,at least to Burke. Besides, if he'd let the customer have the last word the guy would think he was some sort of expert on fighting although the guy probably hadn't gotten into a scrape since he was in short pants.
Burke was the same way when him and Shirley took over the bar and renamed it Champs. Funny,when some blowhard would tell him Archie Moore was the best fighter who ever lived Burke would smile and nod in agreement. Archie Moore was a common name thrown around the bar back then because there still were a few who remembered The Mongoose.Today if you mentioned Moore's name inside Champs the sound would fall on deaf ears.
But it's been 10 years or so since Burke got the 10 Count in that care facility.By then he didn't know who Archie Moore was either..
I remember when Burke Emery was bartending at O'Riley's before him and his girlfriend Shirley went in together on the joint and had it for themselves.Burke was still in pretty good shape then. He could talk about fighting but it was only if you brought up the subject.After he worked his shift Burke would switch to the other side of the bar and lend anybody his ear.To be honest just about all those who frequented O'Riley's and got to talkin' to Burke wanted to put in THEIR 2 cents about the Sweet Science. If they did ask Burke a question like "Who was the best fighter?"; before Burke could counter with a name the asker would interrupt him and announce to the bar in a big loud voice throwing out his chest who HE thought was the all time P4P.But you know what? Burke would let the know it all(who was usually three sheets to the wind)that he was right on the mark and give him a pat on the back..
I mean what the hell did Burke care anyway? He'd been a fighter and a pretty good one. He was the Canadian light heavy champ for a spell in the 50's.He settled in San Diego and worked training a stable of fighters including Art Hafey who was a close to winning the 125 title.He knew everybody worth knowing who was connected with the sport up and down the coast and across the 48 and including Alaska and Hawaii. Maybe he figured if he got into a disagreement he'd run out a customer. But I don't think it as that.
All that "who could beat who" stuff and "who was the best" is all hypothetical anyway and it wasn't worth getting all excited about it,at least to Burke. Besides, if he'd let the customer have the last word the guy would think he was some sort of expert on fighting although the guy probably hadn't gotten into a scrape since he was in short pants.
Burke was the same way when him and Shirley took over the bar and renamed it Champs. Funny,when some blowhard would tell him Archie Moore was the best fighter who ever lived Burke would smile and nod in agreement. Archie Moore was a common name thrown around the bar back then because there still were a few who remembered The Mongoose.Today if you mentioned Moore's name inside Champs the sound would fall on deaf ears.
But it's been 10 years or so since Burke got the 10 Count in that care facility.By then he didn't know who Archie Moore was either..
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Roger: did Burke employ a bouncer or did he keep the peace himself ?
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I don't think it ever crossed his mind. He could take care of himself and if somebody rubbed him the wrong way he was back in the ring again.I remember one night the night bartender got into beef with someone and threw the guy out. About 4 in the morning the next day Burke got a call from the fire department.Gasoline was thrown under the front door and a fire was lit. Everything inside was gone. Took him more than 4 months to reopen.
Burke and me inside Champs after the reopening
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The Dick And Archie Show
I've always wondered what the hell Dick Saddler and Archie Moore were thinking when they started to put a game plan together for George Foreman's defense of his title against Muhammad Ali. After the loss Foreman was devastated,Even suicidal thoughts crossed his mind.He tried to fight off the demons by taking on 5 guys in one night in Toronto in 1975.He had to prove to himself and the world that he was still the same man he was before Ali made a sucker of him. But then Jimmy Young proved again that George Foreman could be had.But I want to get back to that Rumble In The Jungle and talk a little about the strategy that went into Foreman's training for the fight.
Even Foreman said afterwards that he wished Dick and Arch would have had him work with more diversity besides spending countless hours socking the heavy bag like a Paul Bunyan chopping down a Sequoia for the benefit of the crowd and the cameras. Of course the idea was that Ali would see the craters left on the sides of the leather and would go seek psychiatric help.
But if George and his crew thought that Ali was going to impersonate a punching bag they must have been smoking those funny cigarettes. Although Ali couldn't move around the ring ,which came to him second nature in 1967, he still had the guile to realize that if that was to be Foreman's method then he'd would take a page from Gregorio Peralta's book and get this guy to drain his gas tank, and then POW, right in the kisser.Ali would hold behind the head and lean against the ropes and chide Big George.And George would just get more frustrated and desperate and press even harder.In round number 8 George was running on empty. .Sis boom bah and George was spiraling down to his first defeat and his crown falling off his head.And for God's sake PACE YOURSELF. You're not going to knockout Ali. Figure you'll have to go the distance to beat him.It may make for a boring fight but it's better than tiring yourself out and not being able to finish.
One of the first things that made me shake my head was ol' Archie hustling into the ring to put George's robe on.(Couldn't let the big guy catch a chill) But if anything, I think Foreman wished he was dead.The image was shattered.He became another Liston. Everyone wants to see the bully get his just dues, and Ali handed them to him on a plater garnished with plenty of "Ali bomayes!"
I think if Foreman would have had Eddie Futch working with him things might have come out differently.Now don't jump in and remind me that it was Eddie training Joe Frazier when George lifted him off his feet in Puerto Rico.Remenber,Foreman was the underdog going in. Smokin ' would light George up, leaping in with his big left hook,showing the young fella' a thing or two.. But when Joe leaped he collided with George's hooks and uppercuts right on the button.Cape Kennedy picked Joe up on the radar.
But when Futch was thinking out a strategy with Norton against Ali he told Ken when Ali went to the ropes to jab at Ali's chest first to bring his hands down and then come back with head shots.
Frazier's style was made to order for Big George. He couldn't change.That was the only way he knew how to fight. But Ali? He was no Frazier in technique.He was smart and could figure out all the nuances to the extent of loosening the ring ropes to gain an edge and not tell that old fuddy duddy Angelo Dundee.
Yeah.I don't know what Dick nd Arch were thinking.Did they think Ali would fold in 2 rounds like all the others?Didn't they think Ali would take a cue from Peralta?
Archie Moore never forgave Ali before heir fight for making fun of him. It was to be Archie's last.But it was the young Cassius Clay that went to Moore first after winning at the Olympics.But Moore wanted young Cassius to fight like he used to and that was something that was not in Clay's makeup.Old habits are hard to break.
George Foreman
I've always wondered what the hell Dick Saddler and Archie Moore were thinking when they started to put a game plan together for George Foreman's defense of his title against Muhammad Ali. After the loss Foreman was devastated,Even suicidal thoughts crossed his mind.He tried to fight off the demons by taking on 5 guys in one night in Toronto in 1975.He had to prove to himself and the world that he was still the same man he was before Ali made a sucker of him. But then Jimmy Young proved again that George Foreman could be had.But I want to get back to that Rumble In The Jungle and talk a little about the strategy that went into Foreman's training for the fight.
Even Foreman said afterwards that he wished Dick and Arch would have had him work with more diversity besides spending countless hours socking the heavy bag like a Paul Bunyan chopping down a Sequoia for the benefit of the crowd and the cameras. Of course the idea was that Ali would see the craters left on the sides of the leather and would go seek psychiatric help.
But if George and his crew thought that Ali was going to impersonate a punching bag they must have been smoking those funny cigarettes. Although Ali couldn't move around the ring ,which came to him second nature in 1967, he still had the guile to realize that if that was to be Foreman's method then he'd would take a page from Gregorio Peralta's book and get this guy to drain his gas tank, and then POW, right in the kisser.Ali would hold behind the head and lean against the ropes and chide Big George.And George would just get more frustrated and desperate and press even harder.In round number 8 George was running on empty. .Sis boom bah and George was spiraling down to his first defeat and his crown falling off his head.And for God's sake PACE YOURSELF. You're not going to knockout Ali. Figure you'll have to go the distance to beat him.It may make for a boring fight but it's better than tiring yourself out and not being able to finish.
One of the first things that made me shake my head was ol' Archie hustling into the ring to put George's robe on.(Couldn't let the big guy catch a chill) But if anything, I think Foreman wished he was dead.The image was shattered.He became another Liston. Everyone wants to see the bully get his just dues, and Ali handed them to him on a plater garnished with plenty of "Ali bomayes!"
I think if Foreman would have had Eddie Futch working with him things might have come out differently.Now don't jump in and remind me that it was Eddie training Joe Frazier when George lifted him off his feet in Puerto Rico.Remenber,Foreman was the underdog going in. Smokin ' would light George up, leaping in with his big left hook,showing the young fella' a thing or two.. But when Joe leaped he collided with George's hooks and uppercuts right on the button.Cape Kennedy picked Joe up on the radar.
But when Futch was thinking out a strategy with Norton against Ali he told Ken when Ali went to the ropes to jab at Ali's chest first to bring his hands down and then come back with head shots.
Frazier's style was made to order for Big George. He couldn't change.That was the only way he knew how to fight. But Ali? He was no Frazier in technique.He was smart and could figure out all the nuances to the extent of loosening the ring ropes to gain an edge and not tell that old fuddy duddy Angelo Dundee.
Yeah.I don't know what Dick nd Arch were thinking.Did they think Ali would fold in 2 rounds like all the others?Didn't they think Ali would take a cue from Peralta?
Archie Moore never forgave Ali before heir fight for making fun of him. It was to be Archie's last.But it was the young Cassius Clay that went to Moore first after winning at the Olympics.But Moore wanted young Cassius to fight like he used to and that was something that was not in Clay's makeup.Old habits are hard to break.
George Foreman
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
And The Winner Is...
They're all dead-the guys who fought Clay when he still had that moniker and then became Ali.LIston,Frazier,Norton.They're all dead. But George Foreman is still alive. So is Larry Holmes but then Ali was part dead by then but just didn't know it.Leon Spinks is dead.Died just recently.But George Foreman is still alive.Came back to win the title again when he was in his 40's.
Funny,George didn't look the same when he beat Michael Moorer that night.. Not the same on the outside.He was bigger and smoother and had a bald head.But he was really more different on the inside. Here's a guy when he lost to Muhammad Ali I thought wouldn't last long. After the finish of that fight he went from being the scariest battler in the universe to just another fighter who could be beaten.The infallibity,the mystique all fell back to mortal earth. He was one of us. He was flawed.He could never regain that mantra because Ali made an example of him.Ali had shoved the forbidden fruit down his mouth.But Foreman couldn't deal with that,at least for the time being. But could he reinvent himself before he self destructed?It was a very tight race.
Foreman said that he had found God.But how many times have you heard those famous last words before?I think to really get there,to find God,you have to wash yourself clean,admit that you needed to make big change, and then start to build back up. If you ask George today about Ali he'll tell you that he WAS THE GREATEST. Ali had reached a standard in every category that exemplifies a person's value,and it wasn't being a prize fighter. Ali reached that plateau because he knew when he had f--ked up so to speak. KO's and titles didn't much matter anymore to him. He wanted to embrace everyone who never got his hand raised. Later in life he put all the trophies and title belts under a tarp in his barn. He would rather bring a smile to someone's face and tell him that he's just as important as the next guy than show off the press clippings.George had arrived there too.
I saw George once across the street from the gym where my grandson was taking boxing lessons.He was in the CostCo parking lot hawking his George Foreman Grills. He had o his head one of those big chef's hats and had donned a big white apron covering his huge girth.In front of him was a big table with all the grills inside a box stacked up on top each other. He had a couple of them hooked up cooking up a mess of chickens and ribs. These females of all ages were surrounding him and all you had to do was let the waft of all that cookin' enter your nostrils and George would then hand you one of those grills and ring up a "sale" on the cash register.He was everyone's big favorite uncle.A jolly giant with no pretentious sales pitch.He was holding one of those big spatulas in one hand and a chicken leg in the other trying to get as much of the bird into his mouth as he could while everything was dripping down the front of his apron.. He had all those gals smitten and grabbing for their purses. He was a one man show. He was the champ again. He had won everyone over. Thank God.
George Foreman-still winning
This song is for old times' sake.
They're all dead-the guys who fought Clay when he still had that moniker and then became Ali.LIston,Frazier,Norton.They're all dead. But George Foreman is still alive. So is Larry Holmes but then Ali was part dead by then but just didn't know it.Leon Spinks is dead.Died just recently.But George Foreman is still alive.Came back to win the title again when he was in his 40's.
Funny,George didn't look the same when he beat Michael Moorer that night.. Not the same on the outside.He was bigger and smoother and had a bald head.But he was really more different on the inside. Here's a guy when he lost to Muhammad Ali I thought wouldn't last long. After the finish of that fight he went from being the scariest battler in the universe to just another fighter who could be beaten.The infallibity,the mystique all fell back to mortal earth. He was one of us. He was flawed.He could never regain that mantra because Ali made an example of him.Ali had shoved the forbidden fruit down his mouth.But Foreman couldn't deal with that,at least for the time being. But could he reinvent himself before he self destructed?It was a very tight race.
Foreman said that he had found God.But how many times have you heard those famous last words before?I think to really get there,to find God,you have to wash yourself clean,admit that you needed to make big change, and then start to build back up. If you ask George today about Ali he'll tell you that he WAS THE GREATEST. Ali had reached a standard in every category that exemplifies a person's value,and it wasn't being a prize fighter. Ali reached that plateau because he knew when he had f--ked up so to speak. KO's and titles didn't much matter anymore to him. He wanted to embrace everyone who never got his hand raised. Later in life he put all the trophies and title belts under a tarp in his barn. He would rather bring a smile to someone's face and tell him that he's just as important as the next guy than show off the press clippings.George had arrived there too.
I saw George once across the street from the gym where my grandson was taking boxing lessons.He was in the CostCo parking lot hawking his George Foreman Grills. He had o his head one of those big chef's hats and had donned a big white apron covering his huge girth.In front of him was a big table with all the grills inside a box stacked up on top each other. He had a couple of them hooked up cooking up a mess of chickens and ribs. These females of all ages were surrounding him and all you had to do was let the waft of all that cookin' enter your nostrils and George would then hand you one of those grills and ring up a "sale" on the cash register.He was everyone's big favorite uncle.A jolly giant with no pretentious sales pitch.He was holding one of those big spatulas in one hand and a chicken leg in the other trying to get as much of the bird into his mouth as he could while everything was dripping down the front of his apron.. He had all those gals smitten and grabbing for their purses. He was a one man show. He was the champ again. He had won everyone over. Thank God.
George Foreman-still winning
This song is for old times' sake.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
A Father And A Son
After beating Hedgemon Lewis two out of three Ernie "Indian" Red Lopez was dead set on fighting Jose Napoles for his welterweight title. The three fights between Lewis and Lopez were big news back then.Lewis was from Detroit but had established his undefeated streak in LA.Aileen Eaton knew she had a draw. He was being compared with Sugar Ray Robinson in technique and he was very exciting to watch. Being from the Motor City added allure to that comparison since Robinson got his start there as well.
"Indian Red" was born on an Indian reservation in Utah and took to fighting as a kid.He married young and he and his wife moved to Pasadena,California where he began honing his skills at the Pasadena Y.He also stated that he learned a few tips by watching his father hit his mother.(No wonder these guys turn to boxing).
Howie Steindler,long time boxing trainer from LA, got a look at Ernie and his younger brother Danny and coaxed the boys to take him under his wing at the Main Street Gym.In time Ernie and Hedge were on a collision course.I think before the first fight it was anyone's guess. Lewis was the classic stand up slick boxer.Lopez was cruder and tougher and only had one gear-forward.
I drove up to watch the first fight at The Olympic Auditorium. I was pulling for Lewis but as the fight progressed you could see Hedgemon struggling to keep his composure. Lopez sensed this and kept pressing Lewis until by the 9th frame Lewis was flagged and couldn't hardly stand up any longer.
It was a sensational fight ,and of course there was a rematch. This time Lewis got by barely even knocking Lopez down (Boy was he mad that that happened)with Lewis getting his hand raised after 10 fast rounds.
The rubber match was in order but this time Lopez wouldn't let Lewis off the hook. More of a repeat of the first fight.This time Lewis made it into the 10th round but then that was as far as he could go.,
Now the natural world of order asked for Lopez to get his shot against the already legendary "Mantequilla." I'll say this:there was no apprehension on Lopez's part going into the fight.At least he never tipped his hand. But it was evident early that Ernie was being outclassed and outpunched. Jose was way ahead on the cards going into the 15th,dropping Ernie several times in the process. Near the end of the round Napoles had him La La Land and the fight was halted.The aficianados went crazy.
During that time the welterweight division wasn't as deep as it was in the 50's and the early to mid 60's.After beating Lopez Napoles went through what was left in the division fighting Lewis and a a few so so middleweights.Lopez was mirroring the same more or less. The only guy he couldn't handle was Emile Griffith who by then was more focused fighting at middleweight.So why not put Lopez and Napoles back in the ring?
I remember before the fight Lopez being interviewed by a local sportscaster Jim Healy telling him that he had Napoles in his sights.
"He's getting old,"swaggered Ernie."I got him now."
When I heard that I said to myself"Wait and see."
The rematch wasn't as spirited as the first time. I think Napoles knew he could outsmart Lopez.Ernie wasn't in the same league with Napoles even though Jose was beginning to show wear and disinterest.After biding his time Napoles decided to finish things off with a bang.Near the end of the 7th round he got Ernie backing up and lured him into an exchange. A beautiful right uppercut caught Lopez flush and he was counted out.For a moment Lopez looked like he might be seriously hurt. But what hurt most was his ego. I remember him saying afterwards almost crying , "I can't beat this guy."
That defeat broke his will. He let go of the rope. He fought unimpressively two more times ,and then one night he went out to mail a letter and never came back. home. For 12 years no one,his family included, didn't know where he was.Later,the California Boxing Hall Of Fame inducted Ernie Lopez but he was a MIA until he was found living in a homeless shelter in Fort Worth,Texas.
Lopez was brought back to Los Angeles but by then he was pretty far gone.The dementia was eating at him. His four kids hardly remembered their dad. His wife had divorced him a long time ago.Lopez couldn't understand why he was being honored in a hall of fame.
"Why are they doing this?I wasn't good enough."
The first year of Rick Farris' West Coast Boxing Hall Of Fame the Lopez brothers were inducted. Ernie had passed away by then.His son Lance went to the dais to accept his dad's award.You could see on the young man's faced that he was in pain.He never really knew his father. Before getting to the microphone he was scouring the room asking people if they had known his father. He wanted to be filled in.He wanted to piece together a life he didn't know much about.He even asked me out of nowhere. I told him I didn't know his dad. I wished I could have added something.Even if I'd had a cup of coffee one time.Anything. He then turned away and continued his quest to get anything,an anecdote,something secondhand,any trivia. He was trying to see a picture that for now was a blur.His mental scrapbook was lacking.
When Lance got to the microphone he started a discourse.An ode ,so to speak, of what it was to be a fighter that he had written.All the trials and turmoils. He went on and on.He was suffering all the while.The words began to drag on. People were squirming in their seats.It was becoming uncomfortable.Finally,he ended. He went back to where he was sitting alone by himself.After the event was over I passed him in the hallway going out to the parking lot.He had some guy pressed against the wall.
"Did you happen to know my father?"he asked the guy.
I never heard what the guy said because I kept on walking out to my car.
Ernie Lopez
After beating Hedgemon Lewis two out of three Ernie "Indian" Red Lopez was dead set on fighting Jose Napoles for his welterweight title. The three fights between Lewis and Lopez were big news back then.Lewis was from Detroit but had established his undefeated streak in LA.Aileen Eaton knew she had a draw. He was being compared with Sugar Ray Robinson in technique and he was very exciting to watch. Being from the Motor City added allure to that comparison since Robinson got his start there as well.
"Indian Red" was born on an Indian reservation in Utah and took to fighting as a kid.He married young and he and his wife moved to Pasadena,California where he began honing his skills at the Pasadena Y.He also stated that he learned a few tips by watching his father hit his mother.(No wonder these guys turn to boxing).
Howie Steindler,long time boxing trainer from LA, got a look at Ernie and his younger brother Danny and coaxed the boys to take him under his wing at the Main Street Gym.In time Ernie and Hedge were on a collision course.I think before the first fight it was anyone's guess. Lewis was the classic stand up slick boxer.Lopez was cruder and tougher and only had one gear-forward.
I drove up to watch the first fight at The Olympic Auditorium. I was pulling for Lewis but as the fight progressed you could see Hedgemon struggling to keep his composure. Lopez sensed this and kept pressing Lewis until by the 9th frame Lewis was flagged and couldn't hardly stand up any longer.
It was a sensational fight ,and of course there was a rematch. This time Lewis got by barely even knocking Lopez down (Boy was he mad that that happened)with Lewis getting his hand raised after 10 fast rounds.
The rubber match was in order but this time Lopez wouldn't let Lewis off the hook. More of a repeat of the first fight.This time Lewis made it into the 10th round but then that was as far as he could go.,
Now the natural world of order asked for Lopez to get his shot against the already legendary "Mantequilla." I'll say this:there was no apprehension on Lopez's part going into the fight.At least he never tipped his hand. But it was evident early that Ernie was being outclassed and outpunched. Jose was way ahead on the cards going into the 15th,dropping Ernie several times in the process. Near the end of the round Napoles had him La La Land and the fight was halted.The aficianados went crazy.
During that time the welterweight division wasn't as deep as it was in the 50's and the early to mid 60's.After beating Lopez Napoles went through what was left in the division fighting Lewis and a a few so so middleweights.Lopez was mirroring the same more or less. The only guy he couldn't handle was Emile Griffith who by then was more focused fighting at middleweight.So why not put Lopez and Napoles back in the ring?
I remember before the fight Lopez being interviewed by a local sportscaster Jim Healy telling him that he had Napoles in his sights.
"He's getting old,"swaggered Ernie."I got him now."
When I heard that I said to myself"Wait and see."
The rematch wasn't as spirited as the first time. I think Napoles knew he could outsmart Lopez.Ernie wasn't in the same league with Napoles even though Jose was beginning to show wear and disinterest.After biding his time Napoles decided to finish things off with a bang.Near the end of the 7th round he got Ernie backing up and lured him into an exchange. A beautiful right uppercut caught Lopez flush and he was counted out.For a moment Lopez looked like he might be seriously hurt. But what hurt most was his ego. I remember him saying afterwards almost crying , "I can't beat this guy."
That defeat broke his will. He let go of the rope. He fought unimpressively two more times ,and then one night he went out to mail a letter and never came back. home. For 12 years no one,his family included, didn't know where he was.Later,the California Boxing Hall Of Fame inducted Ernie Lopez but he was a MIA until he was found living in a homeless shelter in Fort Worth,Texas.
Lopez was brought back to Los Angeles but by then he was pretty far gone.The dementia was eating at him. His four kids hardly remembered their dad. His wife had divorced him a long time ago.Lopez couldn't understand why he was being honored in a hall of fame.
"Why are they doing this?I wasn't good enough."
The first year of Rick Farris' West Coast Boxing Hall Of Fame the Lopez brothers were inducted. Ernie had passed away by then.His son Lance went to the dais to accept his dad's award.You could see on the young man's faced that he was in pain.He never really knew his father. Before getting to the microphone he was scouring the room asking people if they had known his father. He wanted to be filled in.He wanted to piece together a life he didn't know much about.He even asked me out of nowhere. I told him I didn't know his dad. I wished I could have added something.Even if I'd had a cup of coffee one time.Anything. He then turned away and continued his quest to get anything,an anecdote,something secondhand,any trivia. He was trying to see a picture that for now was a blur.His mental scrapbook was lacking.
When Lance got to the microphone he started a discourse.An ode ,so to speak, of what it was to be a fighter that he had written.All the trials and turmoils. He went on and on.He was suffering all the while.The words began to drag on. People were squirming in their seats.It was becoming uncomfortable.Finally,he ended. He went back to where he was sitting alone by himself.After the event was over I passed him in the hallway going out to the parking lot.He had some guy pressed against the wall.
"Did you happen to know my father?"he asked the guy.
I never heard what the guy said because I kept on walking out to my car.
Ernie Lopez
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The Second Coming
These sports writers got to be in the hip pockets of the powers to be.They probably get as much in payola as they do when they pick up their check from payroll.I read this morning this Kevin Iole's column(Iole is called a "Combat Columnist by Yahoo Sports News) on the fight last night between Shakur Stevenson and Oscar Valdez for one of those splitting hairs titles the "Super Featherweight" championship.To hear Iole describe it Stevenson is going to save boxing(From what I don't know. Boxing is going to hell and you're going to need something more spiritual than a pug to bring boxing to the Pearl Gates).
I'd never seen Stevenson fight.Valdez I did when he broke down Berchelt. I went to YouTube this morning to see if Iole was speaking the truth or if he was just trying to put ne over.Well, if P.T. Barnum was still around he would be looking over his shoulder at Iole because ol' Kev would be breathing down his neck.
For beginners I think Stevenson got into Valdez's head. Valdez looked gun shy throughout the fight. Look. This Stevenson is a cutie.He fancies himself as a boxer. Well,he's no Sugar Ray,Robinson nor Leonard.He doesn't stack up to Pretty Boy Floyd.Roy Jones Jr. in his day would run circles around him. Stevenson is a good fighter."Good" isn't enough juice to get boxing to those Pearly Gates.
Looking at the replay I couldn't understand why Valdez wanted to let Stevenson fight his fight in the middle of the ring. Valdez didn't seem too confident in there. On the other hand the southpaw Stevenson stood there feet spread apart pecking away with his jab-peck,peck,peck-and the crossing with ha fair to middlin' left.He's no body puncher. Valdez isn't coming back with much. Once in awhile he'd press Stevenson to the ropes but when that happened Valdez had nothing in his arsenal with mean intentions behind it.Stevenson would then tie Valdez up and when the ref broke them Stevenson would circle back ring center and it was deja vu all over again.So this was an example of let's say Duran /Leonard !? Or what those two Mexican roosters, Marquez and Vasquez gave us, a few years back?
Look. I'm going to send my resumes out to the Bob Arums and the De La Hoyas and every promoter who's got some clout. I'll write it the way you want me to. F--k it. I'm never going to make it to those Pearly Gates anyway.
Ray Leonard
These sports writers got to be in the hip pockets of the powers to be.They probably get as much in payola as they do when they pick up their check from payroll.I read this morning this Kevin Iole's column(Iole is called a "Combat Columnist by Yahoo Sports News) on the fight last night between Shakur Stevenson and Oscar Valdez for one of those splitting hairs titles the "Super Featherweight" championship.To hear Iole describe it Stevenson is going to save boxing(From what I don't know. Boxing is going to hell and you're going to need something more spiritual than a pug to bring boxing to the Pearl Gates).
I'd never seen Stevenson fight.Valdez I did when he broke down Berchelt. I went to YouTube this morning to see if Iole was speaking the truth or if he was just trying to put ne over.Well, if P.T. Barnum was still around he would be looking over his shoulder at Iole because ol' Kev would be breathing down his neck.
For beginners I think Stevenson got into Valdez's head. Valdez looked gun shy throughout the fight. Look. This Stevenson is a cutie.He fancies himself as a boxer. Well,he's no Sugar Ray,Robinson nor Leonard.He doesn't stack up to Pretty Boy Floyd.Roy Jones Jr. in his day would run circles around him. Stevenson is a good fighter."Good" isn't enough juice to get boxing to those Pearly Gates.
Looking at the replay I couldn't understand why Valdez wanted to let Stevenson fight his fight in the middle of the ring. Valdez didn't seem too confident in there. On the other hand the southpaw Stevenson stood there feet spread apart pecking away with his jab-peck,peck,peck-and the crossing with ha fair to middlin' left.He's no body puncher. Valdez isn't coming back with much. Once in awhile he'd press Stevenson to the ropes but when that happened Valdez had nothing in his arsenal with mean intentions behind it.Stevenson would then tie Valdez up and when the ref broke them Stevenson would circle back ring center and it was deja vu all over again.So this was an example of let's say Duran /Leonard !? Or what those two Mexican roosters, Marquez and Vasquez gave us, a few years back?
Look. I'm going to send my resumes out to the Bob Arums and the De La Hoyas and every promoter who's got some clout. I'll write it the way you want me to. F--k it. I'm never going to make it to those Pearly Gates anyway.
Ray Leonard
-
dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I Liked Ike
After the big war ended I don't think any of those soldiers who fought at the front wanted to indulge themselves watching war movies in the movie theaters or later on TV,especially the ones about those battles in World War !!. My father,who was up to his alligators shooting and getting shot at at Peleliu and Okinawa, never thought too wasting an hour and a half watching John Wayne hitting the beach in "The Sands Of Iwo Jima", that was really a strip of sand just down the way from some seashore resort near Waikiki, or Frank Sinatra,in "Von Ryan's Express", playing a POW commandeering a German freight train to escape to a safer haven, Switzerland.Both Wayne and Sinatra are written in the finish dying bravely in a hail of lead trying to fend off the Japs and the Nazis. After the celluloid was put in the can they returned for a well earned rest to their Malibu homes splashing in their swimming pools playing grab ass with an ample supply of naked starlets.
Well,my old man wasn't into "war" movies.He liked "No Time For Sergeants" and Phil Silvers as Sgt. Ernie Bilko (in the show named after him )because he said there were guys in the service just like that,and besides, those shows were damn right funny.
I don't think General Eisenhower was into those Hollywood reenactments of the big war either.He saw hell on earth as close as anybody. I don't need to draw you a map.If you watch enough of The History Channel you get the idea.No.Ike ,who got voted president afterwards, liked movies that took his mind away, for the time being, from all that stuff he saw in the war; Unless you heard those old timers talk about it you'd have to go to the library to get a sense of it,or see a movie starring some guy who was in the Signal Corps maybe..And if you weren't over there those guys who up to their alligators didn't bring it up,at least not to you.The only ones they could relate with were the guys in the foxholes with them.If you were lucky maybe they'd tell you about some guy over there like Sgt, Bilko.Ha.Ha.
President Eisenhower's favorite movie he said was "Angels In The Outfield"Not the one made in 1994. (Besides ol' Ike was dead by then.)I'm talking about the one that came out in 1951 with Paul Douglas as the coach of the Pittsburgh Pirates, Guffy McGovern, and Janet Leigh playing the news reporter writing up the story about how Douglass and Bridgette White, the orphan girl played by Donna Corcoran ,see angels in the outfield helping the hapless last place Pirates trying to win a pennant.That moivie gets me every time.It got Ike too. Makes you laugh and makes you cry but it ain't all too sentimental.
In the flick there's some cameos of a couple of ex ballplayers.Joe D makes a comment and then there's Tyrus who made a lot of enemies in baseball but speaks a few lines with smile on his face that softens that sourpuss of his.
In the end Paul Douglas marries Janet Leigh and they adopt Donna Corcoran the orphan kid,and the Pirates win the pennant.The movie is like a homerun hit in the bottom of the 9th with the bases full to win the World Serious(thanks Ring Lardner!)
I'll tell you somebody else Ike had admiration for-Rocky Marciano.Rocky was in the big war too. His CO was Ike and next to FDR and George Marshall he gave the orders.
When I used to frequent Bob Johnston's bar,The Sports Palace,on lower Market Street ;as you walked in the door and looked to the right above the bar, there was this big blowup picture of Ike and Rocky together .Looked like they were sharing a few memories.Maybe about all that ruckus in the ETO.But like I said if you weren't there it would just be between them.
After the big war ended I don't think any of those soldiers who fought at the front wanted to indulge themselves watching war movies in the movie theaters or later on TV,especially the ones about those battles in World War !!. My father,who was up to his alligators shooting and getting shot at at Peleliu and Okinawa, never thought too wasting an hour and a half watching John Wayne hitting the beach in "The Sands Of Iwo Jima", that was really a strip of sand just down the way from some seashore resort near Waikiki, or Frank Sinatra,in "Von Ryan's Express", playing a POW commandeering a German freight train to escape to a safer haven, Switzerland.Both Wayne and Sinatra are written in the finish dying bravely in a hail of lead trying to fend off the Japs and the Nazis. After the celluloid was put in the can they returned for a well earned rest to their Malibu homes splashing in their swimming pools playing grab ass with an ample supply of naked starlets.
Well,my old man wasn't into "war" movies.He liked "No Time For Sergeants" and Phil Silvers as Sgt. Ernie Bilko (in the show named after him )because he said there were guys in the service just like that,and besides, those shows were damn right funny.
I don't think General Eisenhower was into those Hollywood reenactments of the big war either.He saw hell on earth as close as anybody. I don't need to draw you a map.If you watch enough of The History Channel you get the idea.No.Ike ,who got voted president afterwards, liked movies that took his mind away, for the time being, from all that stuff he saw in the war; Unless you heard those old timers talk about it you'd have to go to the library to get a sense of it,or see a movie starring some guy who was in the Signal Corps maybe..And if you weren't over there those guys who up to their alligators didn't bring it up,at least not to you.The only ones they could relate with were the guys in the foxholes with them.If you were lucky maybe they'd tell you about some guy over there like Sgt, Bilko.Ha.Ha.
President Eisenhower's favorite movie he said was "Angels In The Outfield"Not the one made in 1994. (Besides ol' Ike was dead by then.)I'm talking about the one that came out in 1951 with Paul Douglas as the coach of the Pittsburgh Pirates, Guffy McGovern, and Janet Leigh playing the news reporter writing up the story about how Douglass and Bridgette White, the orphan girl played by Donna Corcoran ,see angels in the outfield helping the hapless last place Pirates trying to win a pennant.That moivie gets me every time.It got Ike too. Makes you laugh and makes you cry but it ain't all too sentimental.
In the flick there's some cameos of a couple of ex ballplayers.Joe D makes a comment and then there's Tyrus who made a lot of enemies in baseball but speaks a few lines with smile on his face that softens that sourpuss of his.
In the end Paul Douglas marries Janet Leigh and they adopt Donna Corcoran the orphan kid,and the Pirates win the pennant.The movie is like a homerun hit in the bottom of the 9th with the bases full to win the World Serious(thanks Ring Lardner!)
I'll tell you somebody else Ike had admiration for-Rocky Marciano.Rocky was in the big war too. His CO was Ike and next to FDR and George Marshall he gave the orders.
When I used to frequent Bob Johnston's bar,The Sports Palace,on lower Market Street ;as you walked in the door and looked to the right above the bar, there was this big blowup picture of Ike and Rocky together .Looked like they were sharing a few memories.Maybe about all that ruckus in the ETO.But like I said if you weren't there it would just be between them.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Bob Johnston's Sports Palace.It was next to the Hollywood Theater the last burlesque house in the U.S. They tore the building down 50 years ago.Johnston owned both joints. His brother Charley was handling Archie Moore in the 50's along with Doc Kearns.Charley and Doc went back a long ways when Charley had a piece of Jack Dempsey.The area started to get rundown with a lot of winos and druggies roaming around. That section is all condos and trendy eating joints that are way overpriced and phony as hell. They call the area "The Gaslamp."Real phony.Take a look at that picture.That building was over a hundred years old. They had Old Sam at the upright piano playing the standards.The girls from the B House would come in to take a break and listen to Sam play the piano.Sometimes Archie Moore would drop in.Doc Kearns would make an appearance from time to time too. Eddie Ware the comedian at The Hollywood would sit next to Sam and everyone would join in singing those old songs from Tin Pan Alley. Abbott and Costello did their act at the Hollywood before they made the big time.They'd drop buy and see Johnston and his brother and reminisce with the girls.I remember Texas Bobbie Roberts.She was married to Bob Johnston.Couldn't beat her for looks.Real classy too.
This is what it was like inside The Sports Palace with Sam at the keyboard and getting everybody to join in.That's all gone now.Damn shame
Lou Costello with one of the "Hollywood" girls on his lap.Believe me,those girls had as much class as the Queen Of England.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Different Postscript
After describing the goings on of that aura on the lower block of Market Street:the musings inside the doors of the old Hollywood Burlesque House ,and next door, that common watering hole,The Sports Palace,I ended its passing with the words,"It's a damn shame."
Well,what did I think was going to happen?It was better that the proprietor of those establishments,Bob Johnstpon, got out while he still had some breath left in him than it would have been if he had keeled over at his desk in that back room of his.T of a heart attack.Sure,they razed the building.But what if they hadn't.The souls who provided the ambiance inside those walls are all gone now. The Johnston brothers,Doc Kearns,Archie Moore ,Sam the piano man,the girls who shook their booties down the runway and Eddie Ware who supplied the gags.the bartenders,the drummer who hit the rim shots when Texas Bobbie Roberts got down to her pasties and G string-they're all gone. A better postscript for my reflections would have been,"i'll sure miss them."
But isn't that typical nowadays.They swing the wrecking ball to knockdown history and substitute with condos and parking structures.That's what's there today. And then they put a fancy moniker on all of it like"The Gaslamp"to make people think that they're taking a trip down memory lane.
But you know,that wrecking ball can't break down my evocations.."The Gaslamp" means nothing to me. I know what was there before, and I didn't have to go to The San Diego History Society to read about it in their archives.
If you want a good story with a little of home spun flavor,some dangling participles and misplaced modifiers, and maybe the truth stretched a bit but always with something interjected that brings a chuckle-well pull up a chair.Or just keep logging on to the forum.I just hope they don't find me one day lying face down on my keyboard.
The legendary Hollywood Theater. Look at that marquis.You can't make up names like that.Man,you should have seen Texas Bobbie Roberts.
After describing the goings on of that aura on the lower block of Market Street:the musings inside the doors of the old Hollywood Burlesque House ,and next door, that common watering hole,The Sports Palace,I ended its passing with the words,"It's a damn shame."
Well,what did I think was going to happen?It was better that the proprietor of those establishments,Bob Johnstpon, got out while he still had some breath left in him than it would have been if he had keeled over at his desk in that back room of his.T of a heart attack.Sure,they razed the building.But what if they hadn't.The souls who provided the ambiance inside those walls are all gone now. The Johnston brothers,Doc Kearns,Archie Moore ,Sam the piano man,the girls who shook their booties down the runway and Eddie Ware who supplied the gags.the bartenders,the drummer who hit the rim shots when Texas Bobbie Roberts got down to her pasties and G string-they're all gone. A better postscript for my reflections would have been,"i'll sure miss them."
But isn't that typical nowadays.They swing the wrecking ball to knockdown history and substitute with condos and parking structures.That's what's there today. And then they put a fancy moniker on all of it like"The Gaslamp"to make people think that they're taking a trip down memory lane.
But you know,that wrecking ball can't break down my evocations.."The Gaslamp" means nothing to me. I know what was there before, and I didn't have to go to The San Diego History Society to read about it in their archives.
If you want a good story with a little of home spun flavor,some dangling participles and misplaced modifiers, and maybe the truth stretched a bit but always with something interjected that brings a chuckle-well pull up a chair.Or just keep logging on to the forum.I just hope they don't find me one day lying face down on my keyboard.
The legendary Hollywood Theater. Look at that marquis.You can't make up names like that.Man,you should have seen Texas Bobbie Roberts.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
You could go in The Sports Palace on the weekend and hear Sam play medleys like this.
Willie "The Lion" Smith
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The School Of Hard Knocks
My old man took me to the Chicaho Stadium to see Rocky Graziano fight Chuck Davey. My old man also wanted me to see my Godfather, Mike Murphy, who the timekeeper at The Chicago Stadium.My old man was always connected with someone when it came to getting ducats for a ballgame or the fights; and I remember we were sitting ringside for this one.Being part of the Outfit in Chicago always got you seated ringside,behind home plate, or the 50 yard line.There's no way my father would watch a sporting event if he had to sit in the bleachers.That had no class.
I don't remember hardly anything of that night except meeting my Godfather, Mike Murphy.I guess he was my Godfather however that night was the first and last time I ever saw him.I don't have any impression of him except that when I watch those old fights on YouTube from The Chicago Stadium they always announce him a the timekeeper.I kind of remember the fight but I was too young to give you a detailed description let alone my opinon.One thing though that struck me funny was that my old man, being 100 percent dago, didn't seem to be rooting very strong(f--k using the proper adverb ending in "ly") for Graziano. He wasn't pulling necessarily for Davey either, It was like my old man wasn't very interested in nothing.
Years later I watched the replay of that fight on YouTube and then did some studying of Davey. He was a college grad you know. He'd boxed at Michigan State University. and won some NCAA championships while he was studying the 3 R's. Talk about a boring fight. Graziano who was one of the dirtiest fighters around who liked to grab an opponent by the throat and hold him there as he clubbed away with his big right hand. That night he was performing like he wanted to be cited in Dale Carnegie's book "How To Win Friends And Influence People."Graziano looked like he was just passing the time and Davey did enough to win just about every round without breaking a sweat.
Davey was a peculiar looking dude . A lefty with pale skin and tufts of hair on his chest without much growth on the top of his dome;He was very mechanical in his ring approach. I started to scan his record and saw that he began his career in the mid west eventually fighting main events in Chicago,mostly at The Chicago Stadium. The scribes were talking him up while was chalking up an undefeated streak Yeah,you had a white guy with an college education who was a fighter and hadn't lost one yet. Can you say "Mob controlled"?
A path to KId Gavilan's title was being groomed to order. He shuts out Carmen Basilio in The Stadium.IKe Williams fights the worst fight in his life and then says he was acting his part the way he was reheased.The theater was The Chicago Stadium.Davey whips Chico Vejar twive,once in Chi Town ,the other in Detroit (which is a suburb of Mafia Promotions),and then he runs around Graziano who calls it a career.(Rocky always said if I can't beat Chuck Davey I should give up boxing. Well, you weren't supposed to win so what's are you gonna' say?)
Gavilan and Davey sign for a title fight with the odds 14 to 5 in the Cuban's corner.The match is made of course in Chicago.Gavilan is no stranger to cooperating with the Wise Guys but this time there's to be no hanky panky."The Hawk" gave the college boy a lesson in the school of hard knocks.After that loss Davey fell off the radar.
It was interesting for awhile.Imagine,a white kid with a sheepskin in one hand,a boxing glove on the other,and a championship belt around his waist.It would have made a good Disney movie.
Kid Gavilan
My old man took me to the Chicaho Stadium to see Rocky Graziano fight Chuck Davey. My old man also wanted me to see my Godfather, Mike Murphy, who the timekeeper at The Chicago Stadium.My old man was always connected with someone when it came to getting ducats for a ballgame or the fights; and I remember we were sitting ringside for this one.Being part of the Outfit in Chicago always got you seated ringside,behind home plate, or the 50 yard line.There's no way my father would watch a sporting event if he had to sit in the bleachers.That had no class.
I don't remember hardly anything of that night except meeting my Godfather, Mike Murphy.I guess he was my Godfather however that night was the first and last time I ever saw him.I don't have any impression of him except that when I watch those old fights on YouTube from The Chicago Stadium they always announce him a the timekeeper.I kind of remember the fight but I was too young to give you a detailed description let alone my opinon.One thing though that struck me funny was that my old man, being 100 percent dago, didn't seem to be rooting very strong(f--k using the proper adverb ending in "ly") for Graziano. He wasn't pulling necessarily for Davey either, It was like my old man wasn't very interested in nothing.
Years later I watched the replay of that fight on YouTube and then did some studying of Davey. He was a college grad you know. He'd boxed at Michigan State University. and won some NCAA championships while he was studying the 3 R's. Talk about a boring fight. Graziano who was one of the dirtiest fighters around who liked to grab an opponent by the throat and hold him there as he clubbed away with his big right hand. That night he was performing like he wanted to be cited in Dale Carnegie's book "How To Win Friends And Influence People."Graziano looked like he was just passing the time and Davey did enough to win just about every round without breaking a sweat.
Davey was a peculiar looking dude . A lefty with pale skin and tufts of hair on his chest without much growth on the top of his dome;He was very mechanical in his ring approach. I started to scan his record and saw that he began his career in the mid west eventually fighting main events in Chicago,mostly at The Chicago Stadium. The scribes were talking him up while was chalking up an undefeated streak Yeah,you had a white guy with an college education who was a fighter and hadn't lost one yet. Can you say "Mob controlled"?
A path to KId Gavilan's title was being groomed to order. He shuts out Carmen Basilio in The Stadium.IKe Williams fights the worst fight in his life and then says he was acting his part the way he was reheased.The theater was The Chicago Stadium.Davey whips Chico Vejar twive,once in Chi Town ,the other in Detroit (which is a suburb of Mafia Promotions),and then he runs around Graziano who calls it a career.(Rocky always said if I can't beat Chuck Davey I should give up boxing. Well, you weren't supposed to win so what's are you gonna' say?)
Gavilan and Davey sign for a title fight with the odds 14 to 5 in the Cuban's corner.The match is made of course in Chicago.Gavilan is no stranger to cooperating with the Wise Guys but this time there's to be no hanky panky."The Hawk" gave the college boy a lesson in the school of hard knocks.After that loss Davey fell off the radar.
It was interesting for awhile.Imagine,a white kid with a sheepskin in one hand,a boxing glove on the other,and a championship belt around his waist.It would have made a good Disney movie.
Kid Gavilan
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Giving A Lesson To The Guy With The Diploma
After Chuck Davey's corner wouldn't let their boy come out for the 10th round in his quest to win Kid Gavilan's welterweight title the Cuban was interviewed inside the ring. I can't remember who held the microphone to Gavilan (Ted Husing?)but when asked about Davey's abilities he responded nonchalantly,"He didn't have enough experience."
Here's a guy Gavilan with over a hundred fights behind him when he faced the lefty,had been tested by some pretty savvy fighters like Ray Robinson,Bobo Olson,Billy Graham,Tony Janiro,Beau Jack,Ike Williams to name a few; and here was Davey who also fought some of those similar and same names but wasn't told that they were to take a powder once the bell rang.But The Keed was no stranger to obeying the orders of those those characters in those dark suits and crumpled fedoras.At least Gavilan was let in on the "inside" so he had a clear view of what was "outside." But while Davey was practicing boxing during the afternoon and studying for his exams in the evening,he wasn't filled in about how he was being played for a future title shot with The Cuban.The title fight was to be on the level.It had to be if Gavilan was to continue to return a favor once in awhile.
Boxing will never cleanse itself unless the promoters are given the heave ho.But there are thousands of fighters scattered all over the world and it would be impossible to reel them all in into a federation like soccer has like FIFA.Then there would be only a certain amount of fighters who would qualify to fit that mold.I mean where would boxing be without all the broken down pugs?
Chuck Davey was an anomaly.He'd be one today.Athletes that go to college play football,basketball,and baseball.There are no boxing gurus roaming the campuses seeking another Ali or Louis because those two threw a baseball like Little Miss Muffet and thought a split end was a girl's ass..A better bet would be to go to the nearest penitentiary. Imagine that. Looking for a future champion in a jail.Nothing wrong with that I guess.Just is ESPN wouldn't be there with their cameras doing a show on PrimeTime.
Rocky Graziano.He learned how to box along with his neighborhood pal,Jake LaMotta in the same reform school.
After Chuck Davey's corner wouldn't let their boy come out for the 10th round in his quest to win Kid Gavilan's welterweight title the Cuban was interviewed inside the ring. I can't remember who held the microphone to Gavilan (Ted Husing?)but when asked about Davey's abilities he responded nonchalantly,"He didn't have enough experience."
Here's a guy Gavilan with over a hundred fights behind him when he faced the lefty,had been tested by some pretty savvy fighters like Ray Robinson,Bobo Olson,Billy Graham,Tony Janiro,Beau Jack,Ike Williams to name a few; and here was Davey who also fought some of those similar and same names but wasn't told that they were to take a powder once the bell rang.But The Keed was no stranger to obeying the orders of those those characters in those dark suits and crumpled fedoras.At least Gavilan was let in on the "inside" so he had a clear view of what was "outside." But while Davey was practicing boxing during the afternoon and studying for his exams in the evening,he wasn't filled in about how he was being played for a future title shot with The Cuban.The title fight was to be on the level.It had to be if Gavilan was to continue to return a favor once in awhile.
Boxing will never cleanse itself unless the promoters are given the heave ho.But there are thousands of fighters scattered all over the world and it would be impossible to reel them all in into a federation like soccer has like FIFA.Then there would be only a certain amount of fighters who would qualify to fit that mold.I mean where would boxing be without all the broken down pugs?
Chuck Davey was an anomaly.He'd be one today.Athletes that go to college play football,basketball,and baseball.There are no boxing gurus roaming the campuses seeking another Ali or Louis because those two threw a baseball like Little Miss Muffet and thought a split end was a girl's ass..A better bet would be to go to the nearest penitentiary. Imagine that. Looking for a future champion in a jail.Nothing wrong with that I guess.Just is ESPN wouldn't be there with their cameras doing a show on PrimeTime.
Rocky Graziano.He learned how to box along with his neighborhood pal,Jake LaMotta in the same reform school.