Wales wrote: ↑24 Mar 2022, 22:48
Disagree about RJJ
Calzaghe won his first world title in 1997 at 168
Jones Jnr moved to 175lbs a year earlier
In 2002 calzaghe was fighting Tucker Pudwill , 2 months earlier Jones had announced he was moving to heavyweight to fight Ruiz.
Jones was never the same when he came back down and lost 3 of his next 4 . Arguably lost all 4 as the win in the first contest against Tarver was incredibly debatable .
I still maintain one of Hopkins best performances was against Pavlik in the fight after Joe
Ottke fight should’ve happened . Joe would’ve won I reckon but still should’ve happened
Jones in 2001 was offering to come DOWN to super middle to fight Joe. Joe still wasn't interested.
Collins priced himself out of a fight with Jones, Eubank and Benn were petrified of him. People forget how intimidated fighters were of Jones in his day.
Amazes me sometimes the ignorance and disrespect people have for fighters.
I’ll take the knock that the promoters didn’t want to put their guys in with jones.
But to say the likes of Benn, Eubank, Collins, Calzaghe etc … we’re petrified. They certainly weren’t - they’dve believed they could’ve won 100%
Their promoters would’ve made the calls
So Benn is petrified of Jones jnr but not Mclellan or Barkley?
Surely on paper Tyson Fury was petrified of Klitchko or Wilder
Ruiz must’ve been petrified of Joshua
Laing must’ve been petrified of Duran
Corrie Sanders of Klitchko
Unless a boxer believes he can win 100000% he will never make it beyond domestic level
Jones was an intimidating guy at that point and was lauded by many as the best of all time, even then. Everyone was buying the hype on Jones. Even after Benn beat McClellan and he's asked about Jones, I don't think he feels like he can win the fight. If you watch the full Sky show of the Lewis vs Klitschko rerun, people thought Jones would beat Lewis after that fight. McGuigan and Watt were saying as much as Sky pundits in the studio. I think you might be misremembering that era. Jones had a huge reputation for quite some time.
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 30 Mar 2022, 12:09
by orbtastic
Post fight interview benn admitted that Jones was clear number one way above everyone else but he would still fight him. This was pre McClellan
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 30 Mar 2022, 13:00
by polecateddy
I recall Jones’ final fight at super middle. Against totally forgotten Bryant Brannon, who was actually incredibly handy, strong, hard trainer with a good inside game. Undefeated and trashed in two rounds. I think Brannon would have been a nightmare for a lot of British stars if he’d been in the recent eras.
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 30 Mar 2022, 13:51
by hitman_hatton1
Wales wrote: ↑28 Mar 2022, 02:16
Had he retired after the Ruiz fight he would be regarded in a much higher standing…
i see the ring magazine had him at 14 in the recent list.
RJJ’s resume is nearly as full of crap as Calzaghe’s to be fair, although obviously both fought top opponents at various points in between the dross.
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 30 Mar 2022, 14:43
by polecateddy
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑30 Mar 2022, 14:32
RJJ’s resume is nearly as full of crap as Calzaghe’s to be fair, although obviously both fought top opponents at various points in between the dross.
He stopped Sugar Boy Malinga as just a throwaway fight on the rise. The South African was a nightmare for every British fighter he faced. Even Woodhall had to work very hard beating the aged version.
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 30 Mar 2022, 16:56
by Riddick Bowie
Jones had crap opponents but has the excuse of being a nightmare to match because no one wanted to fight him. He also beat major names amid the dreck.
Calzaghe doesn't have the excuse of people being terrified to fight him.
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 30 Mar 2022, 17:21
by dookus
I don't think anyone in history below Cruiserweight beats a prime RJJ. (Setting aside, of course, the distinct possibility of Mexican beef having played its part.) I don't recall anyone else looking as unbeatable and thoroughly dangerous as that across multiple weights, ever.
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑30 Mar 2022, 14:32
RJJ’s resume is nearly as full of crap as Calzaghe’s to be fair, although obviously both fought top opponents at various points in between the dross.
He stopped Sugar Boy Malinga as just a throwaway fight on the rise. The South African was a nightmare for every British fighter he faced. Even Woodhall had to work very hard beating the aged version.
Absolutely, Malinga was an awkward and tough fighter who beat Benn, Reid and lost a SD to Eubank. RJJ was the only man to knock out Malinga in his prime and he made it look easy.
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 01 Apr 2022, 07:36
by coghaugen11
He didn’t really give Eubank any problems. He clearly beat Benn though a couple months after in a 10-rounder, when Nigel tried to box him strangely, just before he went to Jimmy Tibbs.
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 01 Apr 2022, 07:39
by coghaugen11
The Reid v Malinga fight was strange and awful. AWFUL.
Jones Jr struggled to open Malinga up. He couldn’t land, until he flew across the ring with that lead hand uppercut thing; like praying mantis!
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 01 Apr 2022, 09:22
by Coco
Billy Tully wrote: ↑30 Mar 2022, 16:56
Jones had crap opponents but has the excuse of being a nightmare to match because no one wanted to fight him. He also beat major names amid the dreck.
Calzaghe doesn't have the excuse of people being terrified to fight him.
No fighters are terrified, is all about risk and reward and whether promoters can work together.
While the opponents certainly weren't terrified, the terms which I have mentioned above didn't make sense to the big names.
If only boxing was about proving who was best!
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 02 Apr 2022, 04:50
by patlallyjack
Autobarn wrote: ↑24 Mar 2017, 13:54
One of our fastest, most fluid and adaptable ever fighters. Also had tremendous physical strength and stamina. Very assertive, imposed himself in every fight.
Poor punching technique perhaps made him look a little faster than he truly was. And was content to face mediocre opposition in the frustrating middle section of his career. Pulled out of too many fights making him a liability especially if you like going to fights. Wouldn't rematch guys he beat narrowly. Didn't have ANY great fights. Did what he wanted, but a bleeding good fighter!
But then he picked up with the Jeff Lacy and Mikel Kessler unification masterclasses over unbeaten foes. Went into the Hopkins bout with a terrible game plan (to knock out Hopkins with single shots) and looking fleshy, got dropped early and basically seemed to ad lib everything to outhustle his man in a very ugly fight and take a close decision away from home. Then content to step down a level for his swan song and face an aged RJJ.
Very frustrating career but he got the results. We may not see another as good as him ever but our fighters are more ambitious with their careers these days.
Spot on this for me. I am a massive fan of Joe and I agree with all of this assessment.
Autobarn wrote: ↑24 Mar 2017, 13:54
One of our fastest, most fluid and adaptable ever fighters. Also had tremendous physical strength and stamina. Very assertive, imposed himself in every fight.
Poor punching technique perhaps made him look a little faster than he truly was. And was content to face mediocre opposition in the frustrating middle section of his career. Pulled out of too many fights making him a liability especially if you like going to fights. Wouldn't rematch guys he beat narrowly. Didn't have ANY great fights. Did what he wanted, but a bleeding good fighter!
But then he picked up with the Jeff Lacy and Mikel Kessler unification masterclasses over unbeaten foes. Went into the Hopkins bout with a terrible game plan (to knock out Hopkins with single shots) and looking fleshy, got dropped early and basically seemed to ad lib everything to outhustle his man in a very ugly fight and take a close decision away from home. Then content to step down a level for his swan song and face an aged RJJ.
Very frustrating career but he got the results. We may not see another as good as him ever but our fighters are more ambitious with their careers these days.
Spot on this for me. I am a massive fan of Joe and I agree with all of this assessment.
A good assessment, but you have to factor in the bad hands, lack of sparring and having to adapt to the these issues in his style. In terms of cardio I think a lot of boxers should get advice from him as to what he was doing, as it was clearly excellent work.
Autobarn wrote: ↑24 Mar 2017, 13:54
One of our fastest, most fluid and adaptable ever fighters. Also had tremendous physical strength and stamina. Very assertive, imposed himself in every fight.
Poor punching technique perhaps made him look a little faster than he truly was. And was content to face mediocre opposition in the frustrating middle section of his career. Pulled out of too many fights making him a liability especially if you like going to fights. Wouldn't rematch guys he beat narrowly. Didn't have ANY great fights. Did what he wanted, but a bleeding good fighter!
But then he picked up with the Jeff Lacy and Mikel Kessler unification masterclasses over unbeaten foes. Went into the Hopkins bout with a terrible game plan (to knock out Hopkins with single shots) and looking fleshy, got dropped early and basically seemed to ad lib everything to outhustle his man in a very ugly fight and take a close decision away from home. Then content to step down a level for his swan song and face an aged RJJ.
Very frustrating career but he got the results. We may not see another as good as him ever but our fighters are more ambitious with their careers these days.
Spot on this for me. I am a massive fan of Joe and I agree with all of this assessment.
A good assessment, but you have to factor in the bad hands, lack of sparring and having to adapt to the these issues in his style. In terms of cardio I think a lot of boxers should get advice from him as to what he was doing, as it was clearly excellent work.
There’s a couple of documentaries about the training his dad had him doing. Lots of hill running and hill sprints. Up and down strairs. It was very old school.
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 03 Apr 2022, 03:30
by Counter-puncher
It’s a mystery why someone who didn’t embrace *modern scientific training and nutrition’ could possibly show such stamina
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 03 Apr 2022, 05:14
by DrDuke
Generally he's rated fairly. Some of his hometown fans overrate him. He was a gifted boxer and the best in his times, although his era wasn't the toughest one. It would be interesting to see him in the following era, in the mix with Ward, Froch and the others. A win over Kessler shows that he would be at least a major player there.
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 03 Apr 2022, 09:06
by coghaugen11
polecateddy wrote: ↑30 Mar 2022, 13:00
I recall Jones’ final fight at super middle. Against totally forgotten Bryant Brannon, who was actually incredibly handy, strong, hard trainer with a good inside game. Undefeated and trashed in two rounds. I think Brannon would have been a nightmare for a lot of British stars if he’d been in the recent eras.
5ft6 Bryant Brannon. Who didn’t fight a soul. That was embarrassing.
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 03 Apr 2022, 09:17
by coghaugen11
orbtastic wrote: ↑30 Mar 2022, 12:09
Post fight interview benn admitted that Jones was clear number one way above everyone else but he would still fight him. This was pre McClellan
That’s funny because Benn didn’t fight between Jones-Toney and Benn-McClellan.
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 03 Apr 2022, 10:00
by orbtastic
My mistake, I don't have a Nigel Benn scrapbook like your laminated Eubank one and going off memory. It was 26 years ago.
Here he is rating Jones a clear number one above himself saying he scares him:
Post Nardiello
Post Perez (saying he will go to war with him).
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 03 Apr 2022, 16:14
by Wee Tommy
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑03 Apr 2022, 03:30
It’s a mystery why someone who didn’t embrace *modern scientific training and nutrition’ could possibly show such stamina
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑03 Apr 2022, 03:30
It’s a mystery why someone who didn’t embrace *modern scientific training and nutrition’ could possibly show such stamina
I wonder what his secret was?
It’s almost as though training for boxing is quite simple.
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑03 Apr 2022, 03:30
It’s a mystery why someone who didn’t embrace *modern scientific training and nutrition’ could possibly show such stamina
I wonder what his secret was?
It’s almost as though training for boxing is quite simple.
Somebody ought to send my mate Joby the message
I watched the third video there again tonite. I found it absolutely fantastic. What a story. After the Eubank fight his hands were ruined. How he kept going is amazing. Rivalled only by David Diamantés incredible mental strength and healing power.
Chris Eubank certainly thought he was the real deal.
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 03 Apr 2022, 18:46
by GreenLightning
Joe could crack, had amazing stamina and nonstop workrate with great combinations and ability to mix it up
Look at some of his earlier fights before his hands were a shattered mess, he could punch
Re: Joe Calzaghe - Question Mark
Posted: 04 Apr 2022, 05:31
by Controversial
Wee Tommy wrote: ↑03 Apr 2022, 18:37
After the Eubank fight his hands were ruined. How he kept going is amazing.
JC was told by a doctor as an amateur to stop boxing as his hands were bad even then
