The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

oogiebe
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by oogiebe »

Ambling Alp II wrote: 17 May 2020, 14:07 What years was Lewis in his prime, and what years was he sensational?
:lol:
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Ambling Alp II wrote: 17 May 2020, 14:07 What years was Lewis in his prime, and what years was he sensational?
Prime years (1995-2002)..... He was Sensational at any time that he fought well. No matter if he was starting, on in his prime or over the hill.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by Ambling Alp II »

You may want to look up the word "sensational".
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by oogiebe »

Ambling Alp II wrote: 17 May 2020, 20:50 You may want to look up the word "sensational".
:lol:
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Ambling Alp II wrote: 17 May 2020, 20:50 You may want to look up the word "sensational".
You could look it up. It's in the dictionary. Thanks.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by Cojimar 1946 »

Seamus wrote: 03 May 2020, 22:42 The big question mark on Lewis will always be the fact that he was twice a one punch knockout victim at the hands of guys who weren't Hall of Famers.
I think Rahman and McCall are as deserving of the hall of fame as some guys currently in.

Like Ingemar Johansson and Jess Willard
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by Ambling Alp II »

elmersalsa wrote: 18 May 2020, 13:37
Ambling Alp II wrote: 17 May 2020, 20:50 You may want to look up the word "sensational".
You could look it up. It's in the dictionary. Thanks.
I actually knew what the word means.
Here is a definition from the dictionary: 1. arousing intense interest. 2. Intended to shock, thrill etc.

I don't know if you know what an adjective is, but here a few listed: exciting, marvelous, interesting.

That doesn't really seem like Lennox Lewis in his non-prime years.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Ambling Alp II wrote: 18 May 2020, 18:20
elmersalsa wrote: 18 May 2020, 13:37

You could look it up. It's in the dictionary. Thanks.
I actually knew what the word means.
Here is a definition from the dictionary: 1. arousing intense interest. 2. Intended to shock, thrill etc.

I don't know if you know what an adjective is, but here a few listed: exciting, marvelous, interesting.

That doesn't really seem like Lennox Lewis in his non-prime years.
When he stopped Razor Ruddock, he looked sensational. If he was in his prime then? Some say yes, some say after he hooked up with trainer Emanuel Steward in 1995.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by oogiebe »

elmersalsa wrote: 18 May 2020, 18:30
Ambling Alp II wrote: 18 May 2020, 18:20

I actually knew what the word means.
Here is a definition from the dictionary: 1. arousing intense interest. 2. Intended to shock, thrill etc.

I don't know if you know what an adjective is, but here a few listed: exciting, marvelous, interesting.

That doesn't really seem like Lennox Lewis in his non-prime years.
When he stopped Razor Ruddock, he looked sensational. If he was in his prime then? Some say yes, some say after he hooked up with trainer Emanuel Steward in 1995.
LOL! No one says Lewis who faced Ruddock was prime. :lol: It was his 'coming out' party.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

In his two fights with the great Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis showed that he was the real deal when he got the "draw" in the first fight in New York. The draw was a travesty to say at least. Lewis won it by using the left jab and the right cross. Holyfield looked gunshy. He didn't throw enough punches like in his days with Lou Duva in the early 90s and late 80s decade. Of course, he was 36 and probably worn out from those great ring wars with the likes of Michael Dokes, Alex Stewart, George Foreman, Bert Cooper, Riddick Bowe, Ray Mercer and Mike Tyson. He was showing that he was fading in the Vaughn Bean title defense in 1998.

But, I also got to say that Lewis' height, weight and reach advantages were huge to overcome. It's not an easy task to fight a heavyweight that outweighs you over 30lbs. Lewis weighed in 245lbs for the fight in New York. He used well his height and reach. And is very talented. Thanks to American trainer Emanuel Steward of the Kronk Gym in Detroit, MI. Steward created a monster. And that's the truth. He was a hell of a trainer. Better than given credit for. Lewis became one of the greatest heavyweights of all time in Steward's watch.


The scoring of the fight was awful. Only Stanley Christodoulou from South Africa got it right. He had it 116-113 for Lewis. The female American judge, Eugenia Williams? I don't know what fight she was watching. She probably had one of Evander's kids. She was probably one of Holyfield's baby mamas. There's no way that Holy won that fight at all. She ridiculously scored it 115-113 for Evander. And the British judge, Larry O'Connell got it a draw? This the CORRUPTION that boxing was suffering. Greedy promoters and corrupted paid judges made the sport of boxing what it is today.......corrupt.

The second fight was a little bit more competitive than the first fight. Holyfield did his best, but age and wear and tear showed on him once again. He did not looked like a fighter for future contentions. He was shot. But, his heart, will and determination kept him in the fight.

Like I said before. It is hard, very hard to fight a big heavyweight with the physical tools of Lewis. His weight, height and reach is too much to overcome. It is worse for a fighter like Holyfield at 37 to do so. His speed, reflexes and coordination were not there. He was a fighter that relied on speed and high volume of combination punching. This time, the judges got it all right. The fight was much closer. Did they make up for the first mistake in the first fight? Not really. It didn't matter. Lewis was better again.

Lewis accomplished something that no British heavyweight boxer did before him in the 20th century. He became the first Undisputed Heavyweight World Champion since the great Bob Fitzsimmons in 1897.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Lennox Lewis dispatches quick 6'7", 241lbs American giant and number one contender Michael Grant.
koo
Grant definitely didn't fight as number one contender in my view. As a matter of fact, how did he got to the top spot in the heavyweight rankings? He also seemed that he was in fear. Lewis saw it in his eyes.

And Lewis made Grant disappear. Poof! Like a satellite going into orbit. Grant, well, at least he had heart because he went down 4 times in the fight. Three of those times in the first round.

It was a magnificent title defense by Lewis. His first on the undisputed title. A big uppercut did the damage and the fight was over in 2 rounds
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Lennox Lewis makes his second appearance as heavyweight king in London, England to defend his crown against South African challenger Frans Botha. In his first reign as champ and first appearance in London as heavyweight king, he was dropped and stopped cold in 2 rounds by American Oliver McCall in a stunning upset.

Botha at one point was giving the great Iron Mike Tyson a boxing lesson until he got careless and got caught by a lucky punch in 5 rounds.

Lewis ONLY needed 2 rounds. Or may I say, a four-punch combination and sent Botha to the canvas. That's all he needed. The world as for now were looking at Lewis as an indestructible champion that will reign for a long time in the heavyweight division. He looked like hevis improving in every fight.

It was Lewis' 8th title defense.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by Ambling Alp II »

elmersalsa wrote: 30 May 2020, 02:22 Lennox Lewis dispatches quick 6'7", 241lbs American giant and number one contender Michael Grant.
koo
Grant definitely didn't fight as number one contender in my view. As a matter of fact, how did he got to the top spot in the heavyweight rankings? He also seemed that he was in fear. Lewis saw it in his eyes.

And Lewis made Grant disappear. Poof! Like a satellite going into orbit. Grant, well, at least he had heart because he went down 4 times in the fight. Three of those times in the first round.

It was a magnificent title defense by Lewis. His first on the undisputed title. A big uppercut did the damage and the fight was over in 2 rounds
How did Grant get to the top spot of the rankings? He was big, and undefeated! That automatically makes him great. Plus he had stopped some big guys. Though he barely beat an unknown who weighed 210.....
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Ambling Alp II wrote: 31 May 2020, 12:23
elmersalsa wrote: 30 May 2020, 02:22 Lennox Lewis dispatches quick 6'7", 241lbs American giant and number one contender Michael Grant.
koo
Grant definitely didn't fight as number one contender in my view. As a matter of fact, how did he got to the top spot in the heavyweight rankings? He also seemed that he was in fear. Lewis saw it in his eyes.

And Lewis made Grant disappear. Poof! Like a satellite going into orbit. Grant, well, at least he had heart because he went down 4 times in the fight. Three of those times in the first round.

It was a magnificent title defense by Lewis. His first on the undisputed title. A big uppercut did the damage and the fight was over in 2 rounds
How did Grant get to the top spot of the rankings? He was big, and undefeated! That automatically makes him great. Plus he had stopped some big guys. Though he barely beat an unknown who weighed 210.....
He sure didn't fight like a number one contender. What a joke!
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

On Lewis' 9th title defense, he completely dominated American Samoan David Tua who was 5'10" and 245lbs. Lewis weighed in 249lbs.

Lewis made Tua looked amateurish and one-dimensional. The jab was al that Lewis needed. Tua only won one round in my view, which was round 2. It was a lopsided win for Lewis. I scored it 119-109 for the Lion of England.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Weighing 253lbs, it was Lennox Lewis biggest weight to date. He defended his WBC and IBF crowns against Hasim "The Rock" Rahman of Baltimore, MD. Rahman weighed in 238lbs for this fight. He was trimmed and ready. He came to the country of South Africa a month before the fight to accustomed to the high altitude and climate. Lewis came 2 weeks before the fight.

From opening bell, nobody expected an upset. Everybody was expecting the usual: Another win from Lewis.
Lewis was a 20 to 1 favorite. He was dominant with the jab, but Rahman was taking the fight to him. Next thing we know in round 4, Rahman, behind the scorecards, hit Lewis with a right shot on the button! Lewis went down and you could count to 100 this time. He was not getting up. The new Heavyweight Champion of the World is Hasim "The Rock" Rahman of all people? Unbelievable! Lewis got knocked out in round 5.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

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Now, Lennox Lewis had luckily a rematch clause with his conqueror Hasim Rahman. Rahman is all high in his win. And he should be. That's the goal of every professional boxer. That is to become world champion. Rahman accepted the rematch. But, in between that, Rahman was always in Lewis' skin. Never in his pro career Lewis seemed irritated by some opponent's comments. At one incident in an interview on ESPN TV, both Rahman and Lewis had one of the ugliest scuffles the history of boxing has ever seen. It was just like when the greats Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier scuffled on ABC TV studios when they were reviewing with late sports announcer, Howard Cossell, their first fight.

This time, the rematch was in Las Vegas, NV. And Lewis came ready at 249lbs. Rahman came in at 236lbs. It was a different fight this time. Lewis was way too focused and good. He used that left jab and Rahman didn't had an answer. A left-right combination to Rahman's face and all she wrote! You could count until 100. The Rock was not coming up from that shot. It happened in the 4th round. Lewis, like Ali, is heavyweight champion of the world for the third time!
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by Cojimar 1946 »

I don't think Michael Grant really warranted a place in the top 10. He seems to have risen to that position based primarily on guesswork and the fact that the best fighters generally didn't face each other.

At the time he fought Lewis I would think the following guys were all better than Grant
Lennox Lewis
Vitali Klitschko
Wladimir Klitschko
Evander Holyfield
David Tua
Chris Byrd
Oliver McCall
Hasim Rahman
Kirk Johnson
Mike Tyson
John Ruiz

and on top of that you have guys like Corrie Sanders who you could make a strong case for.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by Jaywheel »

In April of 2000, Johnson had yet to KO Maskaev, which propelled him in the rankings. Sanders was the WBU champ waiting to get KOed by Rahman and hadn't beaten Wlad yet. No significant win there either. McCall was KOing stiffs with a .500 record in 1. Tyson hadn't had an impressive win since losing twice to Holy and was outboxed by Botha before the KO. VK was getting spanked by Byrd around the same time losing the WBO title.

Grant was off recent victories over Izon, Savarese and Golota. You could tell he wasn't the goods after the first round of the Golota fight, but I don't see him as an undeserving challenger like elmer portrays him.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by SwayzeWithNoShirtOn »

elmersalsa wrote: 30 May 2019, 14:37 Jersey Joe Walcott and Joe Louis were born in the same year, 1914. Ironically, he was about 3 or 4 months older than the Brown Bomber. But, Louis rise to the top was way much faster than Jersey Joe. Interestingly, Jersey Joe started his career at WELTERWEIGHT. And he started pro boxing 4 years before Louis in 1930.

I don't know why it took Walcott so much time to even be in the top ten rankings. You may know the reason.
He wasn't that good.

His style developed like a cheap steak dry aged, brought out when only hit dogs and baked beans were available.

If the War hadn't happened, you probably wouldn't know his name.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by oogiebe »

SwayzeWithNoShirtOn wrote: 03 Jun 2020, 15:47
elmersalsa wrote: 30 May 2019, 14:37 Jersey Joe Walcott and Joe Louis were born in the same year, 1914. Ironically, he was about 3 or 4 months older than the Brown Bomber. But, Louis rise to the top was way much faster than Jersey Joe. Interestingly, Jersey Joe started his career at WELTERWEIGHT. And he started pro boxing 4 years before Louis in 1930.

I don't know why it took Walcott so much time to even be in the top ten rankings. You may know the reason.
He wasn't that good.

His style developed like a cheap steak dry aged, brought out when only hit dogs and baked beans were available.

If the War hadn't happened, you probably wouldn't know his name.
After reading several of your posts, I'm convinced you are a troll. And not a very good one.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by Nile4000 »

elmersalsa wrote: 13 Aug 2019, 10:37 Does anyone know why Mitch "Blood" Green retired after fighting Iron Mike Tyson in 1986? He came back 7 years later. He was pretty good of what I have seen of him. He had a good jab, moved well around the ring, quick and could take a punch. He also had a great height and weight for a heavyweight. What really happened to him?
The whole thing with Mike at Dapper Dan plus his lifestyle outside the ring hurt him. Being screwed out of his fight with Bonecrusher Smith(who he beat as an amateur) in December 1986 probably put the nail in the coffin. At least should have been a USBA
or NABF champion.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Nile4000 wrote: 04 Jun 2020, 16:57
elmersalsa wrote: 13 Aug 2019, 10:37 Does anyone know why Mitch "Blood" Green retired after fighting Iron Mike Tyson in 1986? He came back 7 years later. He was pretty good of what I have seen of him. He had a good jab, moved well around the ring, quick and could take a punch. He also had a great height and weight for a heavyweight. What really happened to him?
The whole thing with Mike at Dapper Dan plus his lifestyle outside the ring hurt him. Being screwed out of his fight with Bonecrusher Smith(who he beat as an amateur) in December 1986 probably put the nail in the coffin. At least should have been a USBA
or NABF champion.
Oh, I see. He seemed like a pretty good boxer that Mitch Green. If he would have taken his career much more seriously, he probably would have at least become world champion.
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by oogiebe »

elmersalsa wrote: 04 Jun 2020, 18:40
Nile4000 wrote: 04 Jun 2020, 16:57

The whole thing with Mike at Dapper Dan plus his lifestyle outside the ring hurt him. Being screwed out of his fight with Bonecrusher Smith(who he beat as an amateur) in December 1986 probably put the nail in the coffin. At least should have been a USBA
or NABF champion.
Oh, I see. He seemed like a pretty good boxer that Mitch Green. If he would have taken his career much more seriously, he probably would have at least become world champion.
And most?
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Re: The Top 100 Greatest Boxers Pound per Pound of All-Time

Post by Nile4000 »

elmersalsa wrote: 04 Jun 2020, 18:40
Nile4000 wrote: 04 Jun 2020, 16:57

The whole thing with Mike at Dapper Dan plus his lifestyle outside the ring hurt him. Being screwed out of his fight with Bonecrusher Smith(who he beat as an amateur) in December 1986 probably put the nail in the coffin. At least should have been a USBA
or NABF champion.
Oh, I see. He seemed like a pretty good boxer that Mitch Green. If he would have taken his career much more seriously, he probably would have at least become world champion.
Indeed. Funny, him and Tony Tucker were turning pro on NBC and Mike Tyson on ESPN and looked how that turned out. Mitch had a draw with Robert Evans early in his career and that should have been addressed, but someone dropped the ball.
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