Cooper/Ali(Clay)

[Kalan]

If you show even the slightest wisp of comedic talent -- I'll let you know Box

They have 1000's comedian routines on Youtube...you can laugh your ass off all day long if you like... instead of struggling like a pregnant elephant pulling a load of pig-iron through quicksand to be funny like you do -- why not watch some real talent at work and try to build a base of comedic skills and one-liners through them???

And also get out more. Go to more parties where people drink, laugh, tell jokes, and cut up a lot. Get a sense of what's funny and what's lame.

[BoxBuzz]

Not to worry, it's clear that you were born to enlighten, inspire, and lift our spirits with the sort of whimsical folly that everyone loves.

So when I hit a sour note, you come back with your perfect straight man observations.

You churn out a lot of words on the subject of boxing.

And I agree with some of them.

And that my friend

is not a bad thing.

[evrenb]

I conclusively debunked this myth on this very site to this very conspiracy theory loving moron using both the live unedited tv broadcast and the live unedited radio broadcast. There is literally zero room for for this clown to continue his bizarre adherance to this stupid story.

Thats what you think

[evrenb]

There's a long version of this on boxing hall of fame Las Vegas. Includes ring walks and introductions.

So would you care to provide a direct link to this "Compleat" version ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpdiVSQr1IQ

[Flump]

My Dad was at the fight, he said it was 10 seconds maximum and he knew Cooper and liked him. This is a myth, in part perpetuated by Henry himself, I heard him say it was between 2 and 3 minutes which simply wasn't true.

[Controversial]

There's a long version of this on boxing hall of fame Las Vegas. Includes ring walks and introductions.

So would you care to provide a direct link to this "Compleat" version ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpdiVSQr1IQ

Nice

Seriously are people still believing this myth !!!

[SteveO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpdiVSQr1IQ

Thanks for posting this link.
It should settle the argument once and for all, but I have a feeling it still won't satisfy the conspiracy theorists - we'll see.

[Caractacus]

hey see how much just 5 minutes of pre-fight ring walks and introductions adds to the showing of this particular fight ?
It puts it more in a "historical Perspective "'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpdiVSQr1IQ

[evrenb]

hey see how much just 5 minutes of pre-fight ring walks and introductions adds to the showing of this particular fight ?
It puts it more in a "historical Perspective "'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpdiVSQr1IQ

Are you satisfied now??

[Caractacus]

Not as of yet, where is the very beginning of this programme ?
The ITV World of Sports presents part ?
where is the part where the winner is formally announced and the ref lifts the hand of the winner ?
and where are the end credits with the names of those involved in the production ?
where are they ?
I reckon there is approx. 25 minutes missing altogether of the entire (one hour)original broadcast.
perhaps if located they can provide more additional answers to the inquires.

[BoxBuzz]

It's conclusive for the fair minded only.

[Flump]

Not as of yet, where is the very beginning of this programme ?
The ITV World of Sports presents part ?
where is the part where the winner is formally announced and the ref lifts the hand of the winner ?
and where are the end credits with the names of those involved in the production ?
where are they ?
I reckon there is approx. 25 minutes missing altogether of the entire (one hour)original broadcast.
perhaps if located they can provide more additional answers to the inquires.

For starters it wasn't shown on ITV and World of Sport didn't even start until years after this fight. Secondly I can tell you that my Dad was there, he says that it was a delay of 10 seconds at the most and he was a Cooper supporter.

You are looking for a murderer when it was clearly natural causes.

[Kalan]

I think what Caractacus means is all these Youtube videos seem to be cut-n-paste jobs...

There aren't any that don't cut into the action, add a replay here, and cut something out there... If they run the original film from the beginning so we'd know exactly how many seconds were added to the rest interval... We know there were seconds added... I don't think it made a big difference in the outcome...but exactly how long the rest period was seems to be a bit of a mystery... I think it was maybe 65 seconds, which it's not supposed to be -- but they were massaging Clay's head and neck and working on him with great vigor in the corner -- to get him as alert as possible because he didn't seem to know exactly what was going on... I believe he would have been ready anyway -- but we don't know 100% -- so the Dundee story of buying some extra time with the glove tear has a slight amount of traction... Not much -- because if you got clocked are you going to more alert in a minute 15 or a minute? It wouldn't make a big difference.

[BoxBuzz]

I think what Caractacus means is all these Youtube videos seem to be cut-n-paste jobs...

There aren't any that don't cut into the action, add a replay here, and cut something out there... If they run the original film from the beginning so we'd know exactly how many seconds were added to the rest interval... We know there were seconds added... I don't think it made a big difference in the outcome...but exactly how long the rest period was seems to be a bit of a mystery... I think it was maybe 65 seconds, which it's not supposed to be -- but they were massaging Clay's head and neck and working on him with great vigor in the corner -- to get him as alert as possible because he didn't seem to know exactly what was going on... I believe he would have been ready anyway -- but we don't know 100% -- so the Dundee story of buying some extra time with the glove tear has a slight amount of traction... Not much -- because if you got clocked are you going to more alert in a minute 15 or a minute? It wouldn't make a big difference.

After carefully scrutinizing this contribution, I'll sign off on it.

[Caractacus]

Not as of yet, where is the very beginning of this programme ?
The ITV World of Sports presents part ?
where is the part where the winner is formally announced and the ref lifts the hand of the winner ?
and where are the end credits with the names of those involved in the production ?
where are they ?
I reckon there is approx. 25 minutes missing altogether of the entire (one hour)original broadcast.
perhaps if located they can provide more additional answers to the inquires.

For starters it wasn't shown on ITV and World of Sport didn't even start until years after this fight.

You are correct, The ITV World of Sport did not debut until 1965
however I was under the impression this fight was kineoscoped to be shown on ITV in some capacity on a delayed basis the following Weekend on ITV . ( as Reg Guteridge was ITV's sports announcer)
That is why the missing opening and end credits of the kinescope continue to make this footage a mystery.

[Flump]

Not as of yet, where is the very beginning of this programme ?
The ITV World of Sports presents part ?
where is the part where the winner is formally announced and the ref lifts the hand of the winner ?
and where are the end credits with the names of those involved in the production ?
where are they ?
I reckon there is approx. 25 minutes missing altogether of the entire (one hour)original broadcast.
perhaps if located they can provide more additional answers to the inquires.

For starters it wasn't shown on ITV and World of Sport didn't even start until years after this fight.

You are correct, The ITV World of Sport did not debut until 1965
however I was under the impression this fight was kineoscoped to be shown on ITV in some capacity on a delayed basis the following Weekend on ITV . ( as Reg Guteridge was ITV's sports announcer)
That is why the missing opening and end credits of the kinescope continue to make this footage a mystery.

The commentator is Harry Carpenter not Reg Gutteridge. I don't think ITV started broadcasting boxing until the 70's anyway, and generally in the beginning it was overseas action as Solomons/Levine/Duff etc were tied in with the BBC.

Getting back to the time delay I just read accounts from Reg Gutteridge and Norman Giller who were both ringside, who then subsequently saw the full broadcast and both of them say 6 seconds. I find it utterly ridiculous that there is still a conspiracy theory around this, not even counting my own father's account, when even Cooper's own friends in the media say six seconds.

[evrenb]

For starters it wasn't shown on ITV and World of Sport didn't even start until years after this fight.

You are correct, The ITV World of Sport did not debut until 1965
however I was under the impression this fight was kineoscoped to be shown on ITV in some capacity on a delayed basis the following Weekend on ITV . ( as Reg Guteridge was ITV's sports announcer)
That is why the missing opening and end credits of the kinescope continue to make this footage a mystery.

The commentator is Harry Carpenter not Reg Gutteridge. I don't think ITV started broadcasting boxing until the 70's anyway, and generally in the beginning it was overseas action as Solomons/Levine/Duff etc were tied in with the BBC.

Getting back to the time delay I just read accounts from Reg Gutteridge and Norman Giller who were both ringside, who then subsequently saw the full broadcast and both of them say 6 seconds. I find it utterly ridiculous that there is still a conspiracy theory around this, not even counting my own father's account, when even Cooper's own friends in the media say six seconds.

Flump. The best advice you are ever going to get on this forum is from me. Do not waste your valuable knowledge, stories or time on trying to convince Caractacus. He is an attention seeking, conspiracist who is extremely lazy with his research, provides no input except for YouTube links and relies on the research , time and money of others for information then makes total unsubstantiated falsehoods.. He will continue to come up with the most ridiculous scenarios, objections and theories. He has done it to me, klompton, box buzz and others. Please save your time....

[Flump]

You are correct, The ITV World of Sport did not debut until 1965
however I was under the impression this fight was kineoscoped to be shown on ITV in some capacity on a delayed basis the following Weekend on ITV . ( as Reg Guteridge was ITV's sports announcer)
That is why the missing opening and end credits of the kinescope continue to make this footage a mystery.

The commentator is Harry Carpenter not Reg Gutteridge. I don't think ITV started broadcasting boxing until the 70's anyway, and generally in the beginning it was overseas action as Solomons/Levine/Duff etc were tied in with the BBC.

Getting back to the time delay I just read accounts from Reg Gutteridge and Norman Giller who were both ringside, who then subsequently saw the full broadcast and both of them say 6 seconds. I find it utterly ridiculous that there is still a conspiracy theory around this, not even counting my own father's account, when even Cooper's own friends in the media say six seconds.

Flump. The best advice you are ever going to get on this forum is from me. Do not waste your valuable knowledge, stories or time on trying to convince Caractacus. He is an attention seeking, conspiracist who is extremely lazy with his research, provides no input except for YouTube links and relies on the research , time and money of others for information then makes total unsubstantiated falsehoods.. He will continue to come up with the most ridiculous scenarios, objections and theories. He has done it to me, klompton, box buzz and others. Please save your time....

Thanks evrenb, I consider myself advised!

[Caractacus]

How do you know it was Harry Carpenter who was calling that fight for the broadcast ?
If it was please tell me at which moment of the clip where the person says "This is Harry Carpenter speaking ".

[Flump]

How do you know it was Harry Carpenter who was calling that fight for the broadcast ?
If it was please tell me at which moment of the clip where the person says "This is Harry Carpenter speaking ".

FFS, sorry evrenb. From having listened to his commentaries for most of my childhood and young adult life and from having the pleasure of meeting him once. Ditto for Reg Gutteridge.

[Caractacus]

Evereb,you and Klompton must both be insane !
It wasn't me who started up this thread but some other poster here some 10 years ago !
you two since then have both claimed to have seen the "Compleat and unedited footage" of not only
the entire fight(including the missing 2 minutes and 2 seconds) between rounds 4 and 5)
but also the ring walks and introductions.
However neither one of you ever bothered to download it on youtube for the rest of us to view
when we asked citing "finacial reasons".
I guess we all should just accept what you two say on face value because you guys are so magnaminous and virtuous.
However note that that youtube link was only posted 5 days ago on youtube on June-17-2017
by the Boxing Hall of Fame.
or do you claim to be a member there to have posted it ?

[Caractacus]

How do you know it was Harry Carpenter who was calling that fight for the broadcast ?
If it was please tell me at which moment of the clip where the person says "This is Harry Carpenter speaking ".

FFS, sorry evrenb. From having listened to his commentaries for most of my childhood and young adult life and from having the pleasure of meeting him once. Ditto for Reg Gutteridge.

so he never does say this is "Harry Carpenter speaking" in any of the clip you seem to be admitting huh ?
well Im not a trained musician but there are a number of musicians in my family
(and my Grandfather use to tune pianos for his neighbours), for free I may add)
and I have a good ear for sound I believe,and I say that definately is Reg Gutteridge commentating in the clip there,so what have you to say to that ?

[evrenb]

How do you know it was Harry Carpenter who was calling that fight for the broadcast ?
If it was please tell me at which moment of the clip where the person says "This is Harry Carpenter speaking ".

FFS, sorry evrenb. From having listened to his commentaries for most of my childhood and young adult life and from having the pleasure of meeting him once. Ditto for Reg Gutteridge.

It's ok it's ok....but I warned you!!

[Flump]

How do you know it was Harry Carpenter who was calling that fight for the broadcast ?
If it was please tell me at which moment of the clip where the person says "This is Harry Carpenter speaking ".

FFS, sorry evrenb. From having listened to his commentaries for most of my childhood and young adult life and from having the pleasure of meeting him once. Ditto for Reg Gutteridge.

so he never does say this is "Harry Carpenter speaking" in any of the clip you seem to be admitting huh ?
well Im not a trained musician but there are a number of musicians in my family
(and my Grandfather use to tune pianos for his neighbours), for free I may add)
and I have a good ear for sound I believe,and I say that definately is Reg Gutteridge commentating in the clip there,so what have you to say to that ?

I say you have Van Gogh's ear for music, and commentators for that matter. Ask any British person who watched boxing anytime between the 60's and the 90's and they will be able to tell the difference between Harry Carpenter and Reg Gutteridge. I appreciate that for you as an American we might sound all the same but that is Harry Carpenter.

And the length of extra time between rounds four and five was six seconds. They are facts you are going to have to be strong enough to deal with Caractacus, your namesake showed great dignity when obtaining his release by the Roman senate, time for you to do the same.

[Caractacus]

I say you have Van Gogh's ear for music, and commentators for that matter. Ask any British person who watched boxing anytime between the 60's and the 90's and they will be able to tell the difference between Harry Carpenter and Reg Gutteridge. I appreciate that for you as an American we might sound all the same but that is Harry Carpenter.

you sound like you may be a bit flummoxed mate.
and why bring the topic of "Race" into the discussion ?
BTW I think I could probably Bloody well tell the difference between an Islington (Greater London) accent (Gutteridge)
and a South London accent (Harry Carpenter) even if both went to broadcasting school to minimize their Native accents,there is still always a trace.( at least from the period 1634 to 1999 anyways)
But just to give you a sporting chance,please offer the conlusive proof thats Harry Carpenter's voice there in the footage.
Because I could be wrong but I highly doubt it.