BoxRec

Agreed.

This is one of those things that shits me to tears about those that
read into what they read regarding the sport. The more I read in
boxing mags and in some of the books and the more I get annoyed
at the status that many of these writers afford themselves.

As you said, the issue of the match up is over looked and the psycho
babble of the arm chair ring tacticians takes over.

I to think that the 1991 Foreman is a better fighting machine than his
later versions, though one thing ole George always had in his come back
was good cross defence, more composure and that power...

If people were robots, the "psycho babble" would be irrelevant. But let's for the sake of argument, say that Tyson retired the fight before he met Douglas. No one who bases these hypotheticals purely on skill would take seriously a conversation that would have Douglas winning a fight with Mike. What was the betting that night? It was absolutely unanimous that Mike was going to win that fight. And he didn't.

The psychological make up of fighters is not irrelevant. And OFTEN is the key factor in an outcome. It's part and parcel to the game. Even more so than in team sports since it's all about one individual. This should be factored in when theorizing possible outcomes, whether postulating about imagined matches or making your case in real time at the betting parlors.

Many of you know that.

But Tyson would crumble any time some one stood up to him...
I know this because I read it.

That fear stuff is ridiculous, but sadly, people believe it. Even today Tyson probably doesn't fear any boxer and in his mind probably thinks he could beat any of them if he got in shape. That is just the way athletes think.

Earnie Shavers said he was afraid to drive through Philadelphia because he might run into Roy Williams. Does anyone believe that Earnie meant that? Boxers joke like anyone else, and Earnie said that as a compliment to Williams. But Earnie Shavers doesn't fear Roy Williams and he would have fought him again in a minute for a good payday. People read too much into these things.

Well then, with that bit of poetry we've all got our bearings regarding these matters, leaving no room for doubt or uncertainty.

Thanks for clearing these matters up!

BoxBuzz wrote:are you aware of his pre disposition regarding George? Books are actually handy, since what goes on in the ring shows much of the physical potential but leaves some aspects unstated, this is why you may have erred in your analysis. It does no harm to know more than what goes on in the ring. Half of the boxing game is in the noggin'. Joe Frazier had built up such a "head" of steam combined with a cool calm demolition mentality that he outperformed anything you might have seen in previous bouts because he had won the fight in his head. It even trumped Ali's invincible combination of ego and skill on one remarkable evening.

It is beyond possible and lands in the high probability range thatTyson would fold in the poker game of this fight, and his weak psyche would simply be revealed a bit earlier is all.

Tyson whips Foreman at any point. First off, you wouldn't get Foreman of '94 in with Mike Tyson for any amount of money. Gil Clancey had to beg Foreman to fight somebody of name after dozens of Palookas. i know Foreman and Tyson, In '99 when Mike finished his last prison sentence, the short one, he came to Phoenix in terrible shape. At the time, Foreman was making noise about calling Tyson out in a match offered by a wealthy florida attorney/promoter who would guarantee both boxers $25 million. Tyson was weighing nearly 300 pounds (I was in the room when he was weighed) and was sent off to a fat farm for a couple of weeks. Before Mike ever returned to the gym, Shelly Finkle was trying to reach Foreman to assure him they would fight him im Mike's first comeback bout. Foreman suddenly stopped answering his phone, and wisely so. Tyson went on to face Orlin Norris. People have wrongly labeled Tysona bully, where those who know George Foreman are aware he is and has always been the steroetypical bully. Mike would eat him up, young or old. Big George is no hero and he is not a niceguy, Rob. I guarantee you.

-Rick Farris

Thanks for that Rick, appreciated.
Your experiences are always welcomed.

I am sure however that Bert Sugar would disagree with your
mass of experience and exposure to the sport.
All the best.

I have never heard Bert Sugar say anything close to interesting or insightful about the fight game. I have seen him repeat fantasies and babble crap continually. With his stupid hat, unllt stogie and ridiculous monologues he is no more than a carictature of a boxing insider.

Rick Farris, on the other hand, actually knows what he is talking about and I have learnt a lot about the fight game from reading his posts. The same is true about Frank Baltazar's posts.

Re- Sugar... why is he considered to be an authority ?
Longevity ? Because he wrote some books ?

Robinson wrote:Re- Sugar... why is he considered to be an authority ?
Longevity ? Because he wrote some books ?

I think so.

I guess to non boxing or casual fans he looks and sounds the part of a sterotypical boxing insider. Of course, to anyone who knows the game he sounds like what he is; a total jerk.

ESPN must think he is the real mccoy as I have seen him gargling shite on that channel for years.

Sports commentators love guys like him becuase it gives them
something to aspire to be.
A great guru of the sport that has never sacrificed anything or
felt any of the toil.
For me personally I would rather listen to the thoughts of even
the most average prize fighter than the self loving prose of a
self awarded expert.

Robinson wrote:Sports commentators love guys like him becuase it gives them
something to aspire to be.
A great guru of the sport that has never sacrificed anything or
felt any of the toil.
For me personally I would rather listen to the thoughts of even
the most average prize fighter than the self loving prose of a
self awarded expert.

And that is why I have BRR on ignore now.

But BRR does like you.

Robinson wrote:But BRR does like you.

Nah, he's in a relationship with DaveV. They both get each other off badmouthing Mr E. H. Field.

I agree about Bert Sugar, though I have to admit that I haven't heard much from him in a long time. When he comes on television, I reach for the mute button.

I don't understand why ESPN has him on so often. Most of the time he is negative about boxing and the fighters. Plus he doesn't know anything about boxing. I would much rather hear Nate Campbell discuss a fight. I thought he was excellent when he filled in for Teddy Atlas.

Rick Farris wrote:Tyson whips Foreman at any point. First off, you wouldn't get Foreman of '94 in with Mike Tyson for any amount of money. Gil Clancey had to beg Foreman to fight somebody of name after dozens of Palookas. i know Foreman and Tyson, In '99 when Mike finished his last prison sentence, the short one, he came to Phoenix in terrible shape. At the time, Foreman was making noise about calling Tyson out in a match offered by a wealthy florida attorney/promoter who would guarantee both boxers $25 million. Tyson was weighing nearly 300 pounds (I was in the room when he was weighed) and was sent off to a fat farm for a couple of weeks. Before Mike ever returned to the gym, Shelly Finkle was trying to reach Foreman to assure him they would fight him im Mike's first comeback bout. Foreman suddenly stopped answering his phone, and wisely so. Tyson went on to face Orlin Norris. People have wrongly labeled Tysona bully, where those who know George Foreman are aware he is and has always been the steroetypical bully. Mike would eat him up, young or old. Big George is no hero and he is not a niceguy, Rob. I guarantee you.
-Rick Farris

- In '99 Big George was 50 yrs old and 2 yrs retired. Your story is interesting, but it means squat as to what George wanted or could have done in his comeback with Tyson.

I defend Tyson constantly from baseless critics, but the facts are his demons came out of the woodwork after he jettisoned the surviving members of his original team, signed with King, and married that witch. He became a part time mentally ill medicated boxer of former legend and it's telling that in the middle of his prime physical years that he could only manage 5 title fights, going 2-3. He was 9-3 for the 90s.

George was 12-3 for the 90s, 2-1 in title fights, 4-2 by "lineal" title bouts.

Tyson came out of prison in 95 and fought McNeeley, Mathis, beat Bruno for a title, defended against Seldon in that order before Mr. Field series. Foreman defended against Shultz, Grimsley, Savarese, Briggs and retired around the time Tyson was heading back for a 2nd prison term after the Field disgrace.

I've no doubt whatsoever George would've gladly defended against Tyson in Tokyo or Vegas instead of Grimsley. George was all about money and that was huge. We know if Tyson couldn't get him in a couple of rounds, game over and Tyson would be beat down. We have it on good authority TYSON was the one who turned down that huge payday in this period.

One can excuse a 50 old man retired from championship days perhaps not caring for the offer team Tyson was making.

Interesting stuff, I would love to be able to sift through the fog and find the facts of this matter.

Rick if you know them both personally I would have to give your words great credibility, though the number of rumors I have heard to the contrary are of a higher number.

Another question, Do you believe Foreman just "manages" his demons better these days? I mean he speaks in ways that make you think he has his demons in a box vs Mike's being quite open that all of his are out there and often in control.

I do know that without a doubt Foreman was an absolute monster of a bully in his younger years. But his speaking ability and salesman like demeanor have had most of us recalibrate our opinion. His testimony about his "moment of personal change" when you hear him speak in person have the appearance of being sincere and powerful. You see this as a continuing facade?