BoxRec

nobby_nobbins wrote:

bennie wrote: McGuigan fought for 15 gruelling rounds in 110 degrees Fahrenheit, not counting the ring lights and TV lights which would have added at least 10 degrees. Cruz lived in Las Vegas, by comparison.
Barry needed two and a half galllons of water intravenously afterwards.

So you're telling me that Cruz regularly boxed in temperatures of 120 degrees Fahrenheit? No I didn't think so. Vegas is one of the most air conditioned cities on earth - Cruz was no more used to being fried than McGuigan. It's just an excuse, that's all.

It was outdoors in June. He lost 12lbs in weight in the fight and even burned his feet.

nobby_nobbins wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Why not, Augie Sanchez had him on the seat of his arse.

Hamed was often on the floor - no big deal. He wiped the floor with everyone who put him there. Which is worse - getting knocked down and going on to win or getting stopped against a mediocrity and then blaming hot weather?[/quote]


McGuigan did not lose by stoppage to Cruz in Vegas. He lost on points and would have retained by majority draw but for a point deduction for a low blow.

Autobarn wrote:yeah, i;m just saying...

ingle - great war with mcmillan, very solid wins over junior jones and manuel medina
steve robinson - ok, typical WBO champ, but how many good british victims did he have (duke, mcmillan, hoko, davison, irwin)
mccullough - cracking run at bantam (yakushiji, rabanales, the war with bueno; narrow losses to larios and zaragoza in classics up at s.bantam)

i don't think prime barry would have walked through ingle, robinson and mccullough

I think Barry would have walked through the versions of Robinson and McCullough (no feather) Hamed faced... and yes would have hit to hard for Ingle... who was floored everytime at world level.

stujones wrote:

Autobarn wrote:yeah, i;m just saying...

ingle - great war with mcmillan, very solid wins over junior jones and manuel medina
steve robinson - ok, typical WBO champ, but how many good british victims did he have (duke, mcmillan, hoko, davison, irwin)
mccullough - cracking run at bantam (yakushiji, rabanales, the war with bueno; narrow losses to larios and zaragoza in classics up at s.bantam)

i don't think prime barry would have walked through ingle, robinson and mccullough

I think Barry would have walked through the versions of Robinson and McCullough (no feather) Hamed faced... and yes would have hit to hard for Ingle... quote]

x2

bennie wrote:

nobby_nobbins wrote:

bennie wrote: McGuigan fought for 15 gruelling rounds in 110 degrees Fahrenheit, not counting the ring lights and TV lights which would have added at least 10 degrees. Cruz lived in Las Vegas, by comparison.
Barry needed two and a half galllons of water intravenously afterwards.

So you're telling me that Cruz regularly boxed in temperatures of 120 degrees Fahrenheit? No I didn't think so. Vegas is one of the most air conditioned cities on earth - Cruz was no more used to being fried than McGuigan. It's just an excuse, that's all.

It was outdoors in June. He lost 12lbs in weight in the fight and even burned his feet.

What a stupid stupid stupid fcked up way to stage a 15 round world title boxing fight.
Utterly Stupid!
Captain Hook I was winding people up when I said Mcguigan spanks Hamed....this popped up about 6 months ago and it's probably a no brainer in Hamed's favour so I decided it was fair game to take the p*iss. That said my total evidence of Mcguigan in action is about 10 seconds on a highlight reel so what do I know?

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:That said my total evidence of Mcguigan in action is about 10 seconds on a highlight reel so what do I know?

what indeed

Counter-puncher wrote:

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:That said my total evidence of Mcguigan in action is about 10 seconds on a highlight reel so what do I know?

what indeed

my apologies that BM was fighting when I was 3 or 4. If I get reincarnated I'll try to get into boxing a bit sooner for you next time.
My apologies that having seen little of Mcguigan, who I don't find footage of very easy to come by, I still vote for Naz on the basis of his cat like reflexes, awkward style and probably never to be seen again freakish featherweight punch power. Yeah, what do I know.

apology accepted.

Counter-puncher wrote:apology accepted.

it's okay mate no need to go all gay on me

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:That said my total evidence of Mcguigan in action is about 10 seconds on a highlight reel so what do I know?

what indeed

my apologies that BM was fighting when I was 3 or 4. If I get reincarnated I'll try to get into boxing a bit sooner for you next time.
My apologies that having seen little of Mcguigan, who I don't find footage of very easy to come by, I still vote for Naz on the basis of his cat like reflexes, awkward style and probably never to be seen again freakish featherweight punch power. Yeah, what do I know.

I had no idea you were being sarcastic, after all Barry was world champ and Hall of Famer....

You've seen footage of Ali I take it? He was pretty good

Who??

lol just kidding.....I didn't realise (to my embarrassment)....or rather I probably did and had just forgotten, that BM was a HOF'er.
I am aware of his fearsome fighting reputation in his day, together with his not inconsiderable amount of skill......I was really just basing my opinion, wrongly probably...on only half of the evidence and probably also allowing my opinion to be swayed by the thread when it came up last time, that was largely leaning toward Hamed.

I'd much rather take a lift of Mcguigan anyroad, no contest.

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:apology accepted.

it's okay mate no need to go all gay on me

well i've never met you and footage of you is hard to find, but on the basis of a slightly blurred photo on a website i definitely think you're better-looking than spud ;;-)

bennie wrote:

nobby_nobbins wrote:

bennie wrote: McGuigan fought for 15 gruelling rounds in 110 degrees Fahrenheit, not counting the ring lights and TV lights which would have added at least 10 degrees. Cruz lived in Las Vegas, by comparison.
Barry needed two and a half galllons of water intravenously afterwards.

So you're telling me that Cruz regularly boxed in temperatures of 120 degrees Fahrenheit? No I didn't think so. Vegas is one of the most air conditioned cities on earth - Cruz was no more used to being fried than McGuigan. It's just an excuse, that's all.

It was outdoors in June. He lost 12lbs in weight in the fight and even burned his feet.

aaahh, bless his little socks!

stujones wrote:

Autobarn wrote:yeah, i;m just saying...

ingle - great war with mcmillan, very solid wins over junior jones and manuel medina
steve robinson - ok, typical WBO champ, but how many good british victims did he have (duke, mcmillan, hoko, davison, irwin)
mccullough - cracking run at bantam (yakushiji, rabanales, the war with bueno; narrow losses to larios and zaragoza in classics up at s.bantam)

i don't think prime barry would have walked through ingle, robinson and mccullough

I think Barry would have walked through the versions of Robinson and McCullough (no feather) Hamed faced... and yes would have hit to hard for Ingle... who was floored everytime at world level.

i think they - and brodie - would have given barry great fights. yes barry may have been too big and strong but him beating those guys easy is no certainty. barry was good, but he only had a handful of world class wins himself (though he didn't seem built for a long prime). if only he hadn't lost to cruz he could have milked his status as the guy who beat pedroza, maybe dragged things out as hatton did post tszyu, with the right matchmaking

If the reason Mcguigan lost to Cruz was heat why did he go into semi-retirement and not make a more concerted comeback?

PN- he was waiting for Jim McDonnell to peak maybe

barn- in a hypo i'd have to back BM vs Brodie too, lets face it Brodie didn't like pressure and didn't like it to the body. that's at least one and maybe two too many strikes against him to beat BM, IMHO

Counter-puncher wrote:PN- he was waiting for Jim McDonnell to peak maybe

barn- in a hypo i'd have to back BM vs Brodie too, lets face it Brodie didn't like pressure and didn't like it to the body. that's at least one and maybe two too many strikes against him to beat BM, IMHO

true, brodie didn't like pressure from strong featherweights, as brodie wasn't a genuine feather. good point. thohg i have to suspect that the 1st chi fight finished brodie. aftre that fight, brodie would cave in, just when you'd expect him to rally back.

ok how about barry v scott harrison? similar kind of fighters though barry seemed the more versatile and obviously the more proven in world class.

Autobarn wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:PN- he was waiting for Jim McDonnell to peak maybe

barn- in a hypo i'd have to back BM vs Brodie too, lets face it Brodie didn't like pressure and didn't like it to the body. that's at least one and maybe two too many strikes against him to beat BM, IMHO

true, brodie didn't like pressure from strong featherweights, as brodie wasn't a genuine feather. good point. thohg i have to suspect that the 1st chi fight finished brodie. aftre that fight, brodie would cave in, just when you'd expect him to rally back.

ok how about barry v scott harrison? similar kind of fighters though barry seemed the more versatile and obviously the more proven in world class.

BM vs Hairyson would be a great hypo. god, the elbows coming in on the inside alone would make it a xxx-rated fight.

Ketchel wrote:

nobby_nobbins wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

McGuigan did not lose by stoppage to Cruz in Vegas. He lost on points and would have retained by majority draw but for a point deduction for a low blow.

Fair enough. It's been a while since I watched it. I remember him falling apart and thought he got stopped but he must have been saved by the bell.

Barry way too quick for Harrison and a killer to the body. Watch Harrison vs a shot Robinson. Steve had Scott doubled up. He didn't like it downstairs.

I agree that Barry vs a PRIME Robinson would have been a good fight - ultimately McGuigan would have won... but Hamed didn't face a prime Robinson - not that I am saying Steve would have ever beaten Naz... but I don't think he would have looked as bad.

bennie wrote:

nobby_nobbins wrote:

bennie wrote:
It was outdoors in June. He lost 12lbs in weight in the fight and even burned his feet.

I know the fight was staged outdoors Bennie - you misunderstood my post. The fact that Cruz lived in Vegas does not mean that he was used to fighting or training in intense heat. Like most Vegas residents, most of his life would have been spent in air-conditioned rooms or cars. He would have avoided the desert heat at all costs. In other words, he was disadvantaged by the conditions in the ring as well.

nobby_nobbins wrote:I know the fight was staged outdoors Bennie - you misunderstood my post. The fact that Cruz lived in Vegas does not mean that he was used to fighting or training in intense heat. Like most Vegas residents, most of his life would have been spent in air-conditioned rooms or cars. He would have avoided the desert heat at all costs. In other words, he was disadvantaged by the conditions in the ring as well.

the styles of the 2 played a big part in those conditions though.

mcguigan was a worker and cruz was a keep it tight counter puncher.

shame they never rematched each other in the uk under better conditions.

shame bazza had those managerial issues that kept him out after the cruz fight.

i think bazza's comeback was going well until the mcdonnell fight.

those comeback fights were better performances than he's given credit for.

Yes, and he was getting into the McDonnell fight also. Such a shame about the politics cause like Naz, never showed he could handle a big defeat well.

Yes, I misread it. Come on, Nobby, you only have to look at Cruz to see he was more accclimatised! He had previously fought six times in Las Vegas, including two just prior to McGuigan - two long, gruelling fights fights against world class opposition.
McGuigan had boxed once in the States: The Windy City of Chicago. It lasted two rounds.