BoxRec

glad to see the back of him.

I have always liked Enzo and I did think after Haye moved up to HW he would do well and win a belt again. The loss last night was a bad one, and too hard to come back from. Sadly its game over for Enzo IMO.

no one really goes back to british level

less money and the guy you are fighting has extra incentive to smash shi t out of you, so he can get a big scalp

Autobarn wrote:no one really goes back to british level

less money and the guy you are fighting has extra incentive to smash shi t out of you, so he can get a big scalp

True I think he has made enough money to call it a day on the boxing the Haye defeat was the beginning of the end for Enzo

This was obviously a bad comeback fight to take and the wrong 1. Its a shame as Enzo had some tasty skills and physical ability, good stamina, just his defense and chin were lacking but those 2 are really essential. The win over Braithwaite was his career highlight in the end

He's not even a "big scalp" - his title reign was unremarkable in every way. His only opponent of real note was Braithwaite who was past his best by then. He was never really in Haye's league an was lucky to get the payday for fighting him.

I thought he'd gotten away with a career ending beating that night since Haye put him out so quick. Enzo C went on that Haye's power couldn't be that good if he took eight or nine full blooded shots to put Macca down. What he didn't realise was staying up took everything out of Macca when those blows landed and, when David finished him off, it finished whatever was left of the big man's punch resistance.

He's finished, he needs to move on. Warren won't have use for him now, he made a decent amount and he's got a nice family, being a nice, if delusional, bloke. Get out before he does himself permanent damage.

Enzo comes across as a decent bloke, but as a fighter he was distinctly average. I, like some others in this thread, could never understand why people where getting so excited about him tbh.

The way Enzo C and FW and Enzo himself, were going on about his punching power you'd have thought he was the second coming of Ray Robinson, Mike Tyson and Naseem Hamed, all rolled into one

In truth, he had decent skills, slightly improved under Enzo C, decent power (nowhere near anything like they bragged about) and an average chin.

Typical FW matchmaking, in all honestly, ruined his progress. Sooo many uncompetitive matches, he developed a bully syndrome......go in there and try to blast people out.

Too many excuses after his losses, too much (misplaced) belief in his power and scouring his record, too many wins against inept opposition (Hobson and Dominguez apart - Braithwaite was just here for the payday and had no ambition whatsoever).

Well done FW, another career you have milked and ruined. I just wish fighters would stay away from this man as he really does not do anything for them apart from put a few quid in their pockets, more in his own and just cons the public continously.

Tbh my heart sinks when a fighter I rate, signs with FW - Atleast Hatton, Hamed and Calzaghe (better late than never) had the sense to leave him behind. They earned alot more and engaged in some good fights, so what if they lost some of them - Better than fighting blown up, smaller, over the hill opponents.

bengulnaci1 wrote: The way Enzo C and FW and Enzo himself, were going on about his punching power you'd have thought he was the second coming of Ray Robinson, Mike Tyson and Naseem Hamed, all rolled into one

In truth, he had decent skills, slightly improved under Enzo C, decent power (nowhere near anything like they bragged about) and an average chin.

Good point.

One of the worst things you can do to someone in boxing, and life in general, is to brainwash them with an exaggerated sense of their own infallability because once the bubble has been burst, it can be almost impossible to repair the damage done to the subjects confidence.

bengulnaci1 wrote: The way Enzo C and FW and Enzo himself, were going on about his punching power you'd have thought he was the second coming of Ray Robinson, Mike Tyson and Naseem Hamed, all rolled into one .

Thats such a vapid point, can you please name me a single successful boxer that is "promoted" or "marketed" any differently?

For crying out loud, thats what promoters are suposed to do, ie get people intersted in a fighter, get bums on seats and make a few quid.


What promoter would market their fighter as "quite good, a bit weak in the chin and lacking in stamina, but still, please come and see him saturday night, tickets 25 quid" ?

Its like this Amir Khan and or Ricky Hatton "hatred" we get on here. It seems a great many people seem to utterly despise any fighter if he is promoted or marketed in any way what-so-ever(regardless of the fact that this has been going on since the dawn of boxing)

Why dont people understand that?

Well done FW, another career you have milked and ruined. I just wish fighters would stay away from this man as he really does not do anything for them apart from put a few quid in their pockets, more in his own and just cons the public continously.

FW is a boxing promoter (how many times i have had to remind people of that goes beyond my count) he is the most successful promoter in the UK, that is his job, thats what he does for his fighters, and he does it better than anyone else.


Oh, and he guided Enzo to a world title and a shot at the main man at the weight, in David Haye.



Yes, FW ruined Enzo Macs career....

FW has also made Enzo financially secure

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:

bengulnaci1 wrote: The way Enzo C and FW and Enzo himself, were going on about his punching power you'd have thought he was the second coming of Ray Robinson, Mike Tyson and Naseem Hamed, all rolled into one .

Thats such a vapid point, can you please name me a single successful boxer that is "promoted" or "marketed" any differently?

For crying out loud, thats what promoters are suposed to do, ie get people intersted in a fighter, get bums on seats and make a few quid.


What promoter would market their fighter as "quite good, a bit weak in the chin and lacking in stamina, but still, please come and see him saturday night, tickets 25 quid" ?

Its like this Amir Khan and or Ricky Hatton "hatred" we get on here. It seems a great many people seem to utterly despise any fighter if he is promoted or marketed in any way what-so-ever(regardless of the fact that this has been going on since the dawn of boxing)

Why dont people understand that?

Well done FW, another career you have milked and ruined. I just wish fighters would stay away from this man as he really does not do anything for them apart from put a few quid in their pockets, more in his own and just cons the public continously.

FW is a boxing promoter (how many times i have had to remind people of that goes beyond my count) he is the most successful promoter in the UK, that is his job, thats what he does for his fighters, and he does it better than anyone else.


Oh, and he guided Enzo to a world title and a shot at the main man at the weight, in David Haye.



Yes, FW ruined Enzo Macs career....

Great post some people don't understand the business aspect of Boxing

world ranked wrote:

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:

bengulnaci1 wrote: The way Enzo C and FW and Enzo himself, were going on about his punching power you'd have thought he was the second coming of Ray Robinson, Mike Tyson and Naseem Hamed, all rolled into one .

Thats such a vapid point, can you please name me a single successful boxer that is "promoted" or "marketed" any differently?

For crying out loud, thats what promoters are suposed to do, ie get people intersted in a fighter, get bums on seats and make a few quid.


What promoter would market their fighter as "quite good, a bit weak in the chin and lacking in stamina, but still, please come and see him saturday night, tickets 25 quid" ?

Its like this Amir Khan and or Ricky Hatton "hatred" we get on here. It seems a great many people seem to utterly despise any fighter if he is promoted or marketed in any way what-so-ever(regardless of the fact that this has been going on since the dawn of boxing)

Why dont people understand that?

Well done FW, another career you have milked and ruined. I just wish fighters would stay away from this man as he really does not do anything for them apart from put a few quid in their pockets, more in his own and just cons the public continously.

FW is a boxing promoter (how many times i have had to remind people of that goes beyond my count) he is the most successful promoter in the UK, that is his job, thats what he does for his fighters, and he does it better than anyone else.


Oh, and he guided Enzo to a world title and a shot at the main man at the weight, in David Haye.



Yes, FW ruined Enzo Macs career....

Great post some people don't understand the business aspect of Boxing

The point was that promoting is one thing, if the fighter begins to buy into it, thats something else.

A succesful promoter, FW certainly is, but again was not the point. The point was he continually ruins fighters by matching them abysmally. You look at Haye or Froch, seeking tough matches, hence when they finally get into a tough match they can tough it out. JC and Hatton, granted had the stomach, however other FW fighters are simply padded, purely on building a fanbase, making a few pounds and conning the general public.

There is a difference to what I posted and what you implied.

The 'business aspect of boxing' is not something I was discussing - period.

PS Take alittle more time to absorb what is written before leaping to a conclusion you want to argue.

In peace X

the best enzo can hope for is a shot at the next cruiserweight 'prizefighter' ... that is his only chance at a decent payday now.

What about the stoppage? Feelings it was a little too late? Can't say it was too early, surely?

Lebedev was picking off shots at will, poor Enzo was just taking them flush. Corner really should have thrown in the towel.

rhino222 wrote:the best enzo can hope for is a shot at the next cruiserweight 'prizefighter' ... that is his only chance at a decent payday now.

I disagree.

As a former world champion, but now (percieved as being) very beatable, there will definatly be well paid work for him internationally, as an "opponent" if, he chooses to take it.

world ranked wrote:

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:

bengulnaci1 wrote: The way Enzo C and FW and Enzo himself, were going on about his punching power you'd have thought he was the second coming of Ray Robinson, Mike Tyson and Naseem Hamed, all rolled into one .


Thats such a vapid point, can you please name me a single successful boxer that is "promoted" or "marketed" any differently?

For crying out loud, thats what promoters are suposed to do, ie get people intersted in a fighter, get bums on seats and make a few quid.


What promoter would market their fighter as "quite good, a bit weak in the chin and lacking in stamina, but still, please come and see him saturday night, tickets 25 quid" ?

Its like this Amir Khan and or Ricky Hatton "hatred" we get on here. It seems a great many people seem to utterly despise any fighter if he is promoted or marketed in any way what-so-ever(regardless of the fact that this has been going on since the dawn of boxing)

Why dont people understand that?


Well done FW, another career you have milked and ruined. I just wish fighters would stay away from this man as he really does not do anything for them apart from put a few quid in their pockets, more in his own and just cons the public continously.


FW is a boxing promoter (how many times i have had to remind people of that goes beyond my count) he is the most successful promoter in the UK, that is his job, thats what he does for his fighters, and he does it better than anyone else.


Oh, and he guided Enzo to a world title and a shot at the main man at the weight, in David Haye.



Yes, FW ruined Enzo Macs career....

Great post some people don't understand the business aspect of Boxing

The point was that promoting is one thing, if the fighter begins to buy into it, thats something else.

A succesful promoter, FW certainly is, but again was not the point. The point was he continually ruins fighters by matching them abysmally. You look at Haye or Froch, seeking tough matches, hence when they finally get into a tough match they can tough it out. JC and Hatton, granted had the stomach, however other FW fighters are simply padded, purely on building a fanbase, making a few pounds and conning the general public.

There is a difference to what I posted and what you implied.

The 'business aspect of boxing' is not something I was discussing - period.

PS Take alittle more time to absorb what is written before leaping to a conclusion you want to argue.

In peace X

Please name me 1 fighter FW has "ruined" by his matchmaking


Do you actually think Enzo has been badly matched?

What do you think he could have achieved with another promoter?

He was tested early on and got KO'd by Swaby, then sensibly brought back to square 1 and rebuilt, aquiring a nice fanbase while he honed his skills.

Good win over Bruce Scott, went 12 with Aboul, great high profile dust up with Hobson, career high win over genuine top fighter in Braithwaite before coming up short against domestic rival and world number 1 in David Haye.

Since then FW has tried to keep him at world level, but Enzo just wasnt up to the job.....


so, ummm, what did FW do so wrong?



What other fighters has he destroyed?

bengulnaci1 wrote:
Well done FW, another career you have milked and ruined. I just wish fighters would stay away from this man as he really does not do anything for them apart from put a few quid in their pockets, more in his own and just cons the public continously.

Tbh my heart sinks when a fighter I rate, signs with FW - Atleast Hatton, Hamed and Calzaghe (better late than never) had the sense to leave him behind. They earned alot more and engaged in some good fights, so what if they lost some of them - Better than fighting blown up, smaller, over the hill opponents.

I thought FW signed & was promoting the Russian last night?

This is not some personal vendetta, you obviously have an opinion, as I do.

As I said he does make money for his fighters, and for himself, which ofc is to be expected.

I think what it comes down to is his matchmaking efforts, they leave alot to be desired. His tried and tested method usually involves pitting his fighters against generally smaller fighters coming up in wieght, on 1-2 week notice, encouraging a bully like mentality.

They learn nothing - when they do face someone unheralded or not, who is prepared to hit back, they usually crumble.

Is either Ledbedev or Olafabi, top notch?

Now he is telling Enzo to retire......great, had his 2 pounds worth of meat out of him, now its time to move on, amrite Frank?

Dennis Hobson or even Hayemaker have the idea on how to improve fighters - they match them hard, sink or swim and if they can swim then the true riches await.

And in Enzo's case, these fights against Bobby Gunn etc....all they did, along with FW ballyhoo is feed him the notion that he can simply knock out anyone, and when that dont happen, confidence is shot. Enzo was saying the knockout power had returned - the shots had no effect, well you saw the results.

Now what for Enzo, at the age of 28? Well FW dont care, Khan won a world title and he has the olympians.

As i stated earlier, promotion is one thing but when the fighter buys into it, they are in big trouble.

You talk about Promotion, i am talking about fighter development.

FW took him to a World title on big cards which resulted in very good paydays which in all honesty was pretty fortunate considering his limited skills.

Last night Lebedev was the Warren fighter not Enzo so I don't see what your problem is!

bengulnaci1 wrote:This is not some personal vendetta, you obviously have an opinion, as I do.

As I said he does make money for his fighters, and for himself, which ofc is to be expected.

I think what it comes down to is his matchmaking efforts, they leave alot to be desired. His tried and tested method usually involves pitting his fighters against generally smaller fighters coming up in wieght, on 1-2 week notice, encouraging a bully like mentality.

They learn nothing - when they do face someone unheralded or not, who is prepared to hit back, they usually crumble.

Is either Ledbedev or Olafabi, top notch?

Now he is telling Enzo to retire......great, had his 2 pounds worth of meat out of him, now its time to move on, amrite Frank?

Dennis Hobson or even Hayemaker have the idea on how to improve fighters - they match them hard, sink or swim and if they can swim then the true riches await.

And in Enzo's case, these fights against Bobby Gunn etc....all they did, along with FW ballyhoo is feed him the notion that he can simply knock out anyone, and when that dont happen, confidence is shot. Enzo was saying the knockout power had returned - the shots had no effect, well you saw the results.

Now what for Enzo, at the age of 28? Well FW dont care, Khan won a world title and he has the olympians.

As i stated earlier, promotion is one thing but when the fighter buys into it, they are in big trouble.

You talk about Promotion, i am talking about fighter development.

Good post. People aren't understanding your post. KG wrote a good post but it wasn't on the same topic you are talking about.

Simply put, Froch gutted out his Taylor win. Haye gutted out his win over Mormeck. They were able to do that because of their stiff opposition beforehand and what they learned. If they had went the warren route, they would have fallen at that hurdle. That is the point and that is what happened to Enzo. He developed flaws in his game and in his personality based on what he was fighting and what he was being built up as. He believed his own hype. He didn't do the very hard graft needed and believed in his own power too much. He just fought too many bums when he shouldn't have and while he may have made a few bob doing so, he f*cked his career up in the process.

bengulnaci1 wrote:This is not some personal vendetta, you obviously have an opinion, as I do.

As I said he does make money for his fighters, and for himself, which ofc is to be expected.

I think what it comes down to is his matchmaking efforts, they leave alot to be desired. His tried and tested method usually involves pitting his fighters against generally smaller fighters coming up in wieght, on 1-2 week notice, encouraging a bully like mentality.

I have no Vendetta either, just opinions. I'm glad we can keep things civil, where others cannot...

My understanding is that it really isnt FW that picks the fighters, he promotes the fight cards, sure. but he would himself admit (he said so on Ringside a few years ago) that he doesnt know the game enough to be picking out oponents.

He will, however, draw up a list of people he can get (usually at the "right price") and give that to the fighters management and trainer. (remember FW is a promoter, not a manager)

A fighters trainer and or manager always has the last say on who his fighter faces

They learn nothing - when they do face someone unheralded or not, who is prepared to hit back, they usually crumble.

Well sometimes they do, but i know fighters who said they learned more about the pro gamefrom 4 x 3 with, say a Tony Booth than they did in their entire amateur careers. (esp the way Am boxing has gone)

Is either Ledbedev or Olafabi, top notch?

At 200 pounds, as o today? id say they probably were

Now he is telling Enzo to retire......great, had his 2 pounds worth of meat out of him, now its time to move on, amrite Frank?

yes, but Enzo is also a very rich man now, with a world title belt at home.


Thats honestly a lot better than he had any right to think he would do when he 1st started

He cant hang at top level anymore, doesnt need the money, so why hang around for 3 grand a fight in a leasure centre somewhere?

Dennis Hobson or even Hayemaker have the idea on how to improve fighters - they match them hard, sink or swim and if they can swim then the true riches await.

How mant shows have Hayemaker even put on yet? and Dennis Hobson?


Ummmm, what did he do for Clinton Woods that was so wonderful?

And in Enzo's case, these fights against Bobby Gunn etc....all they did, along with FW ballyhoo is feed him the notion that he can simply knock out anyone, and when that dont happen, confidence is shot. Enzo was saying the knockout power had returned - the shots had no effect, well you saw the results.

But in his next fight he beat Wayne Braithwaite, which was easily his career highlight..... It didnt affect his confidence all that much, did it?

Oh and Denis Hobson served up Clint Johnson W9-L11 in preperation for Clinton Woods fighting prime Roy Jones Jr....


hmmm

Now what for Enzo, at the age of 28? Well FW dont care, Khan won a world title and he has the olympians.

As i stated earlier, promotion is one thing but when the fighter buys into it, they are in big trouble.

Enzo can either go back to fighing for peanuts or retire and move on into something else.

and as for a fighter believing his own hype?

Unless we know the fighter as a person well, we really cant judge that from the comfort of our living rooms, can we?

You talk about Promotion, i am talking about fighter development.

Fwank W@rren is, and i hope you will all say it with me....

for the 1 millionth time


A BOXING PROMOTER

The fact that the Enzo and Brook fights were both 3rd round blowouts and not shown as part of a PPV show is a disgrace. They could have stuck them on for half an hour at the end especially as the Olympians' fights were all one-sided, non-competetive affairs.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Enzo is also a very rich man now, with a world title belt at home.

Thats honestly a lot better than he had any right to think he would do when he 1st started

He cant hang at top level anymore, doesnt need the money, so why hang around for 3 grand a fight in a leasure centre somewhere?

I wouldn't say he is very rich, certainly not rich enough to simply stop doing anything.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:How mant shows have Hayemaker even put on yet? and Dennis Hobson?

Ummmm, what did he do for Clinton Woods that was so wonderful?

Not sure why the number of shows they promote has anything to do with this tbh.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:But in his next fight he beat Wayne Braithwaite, which was easily his career highlight..... It didnt affect his confidence all that much, did it?

Oh and Denis Hobson served up Clint Johnson W9-L11 in preperation for Clinton Woods fighting prime Roy Jones Jr....hmmm

Braithwaite was, as usual, given 2-3 weeks notice (another FW trait) and simply turned up for the payday - I am sure you watched the fight, it was tbh, a complete non-event, Braithwaite didnt even try to win.

Hobson, off the back of that pitched Woods with undefeated puncher, Rico Hoye, then Glencoffe 3x and Gonzalez and finally Tarver. This type of fights enable Woods to enjoy some respect, make some decent money and have a respectable reign. Ok he lost to Tarver, but thats not a disgrace. His fights were character building, so when things got tough and in the trenches, he could gut it out.

Also I think you will find that Fwank W@rren does also manage fighters, not solely promote.

PS I do not have an issue with Ledbedev being promoted, Hagler, old chap. Not sure why you would think so tbh? It is just that pitching Enzo in against an untested Russian, either way Fwank W@rren wins. Either he ditches the untested Russian should he lose (which I think, in all honesty, he would have preferred) or simply moves Enzo on, as he cant really see him being marketable now (subtley hinted, 'asking Enzo to retire'). Built him up and then crushed him, all at the age of 28yrs old, nice going.

whicker wrote:What about the stoppage? Feelings it was a little too late? Can't say it was too early, surely?

Lebedev was picking off shots at will, poor Enzo was just taking them flush. Corner really should have thrown in the towel.

it was a late stoppage allegedly because unfortunately enzo was the house fighter and FW pays the expenses bills for the officials !!

Shamne for Enzo but that's it now....three devastating losses like that...can't come back from that, not in an serious way.

Should pack it in....

And I agree with whoever said FW threw him to the wolves.