BoxRec

martin_g91 wrote:Froch and Calzaghe are not if different leagues, they're almost in different sports. I know in boxing 2 and 2 don't make 4, but watch what Kessler does to Froch. After that you'll never hear Froch mention Calzaghe again.

I hear that, Froch is going to get schooled by Kessler and its true what calzaghe said, froch managed 12 seconds of a good fight against taylor, you cant expect to knock everyone out in the last seconds of the last round when ur that far behind on points. He was very lucky.

Eraserhead wrote:I thought Hopkins beat Calzaghe, too. I also thought he'd get the decision at the end, and was shocked when they went for Calzaghe.

I'm sorry, as lazy as Hopkins was down the stretch, you don't win fights by slapping your arms in circles and bum-rushing an opponent in sheer desperation. Joe was a panicked mess all night against Hopkins, as he quickly realised B-Hop was superior to him technically and could make him look silly when he opened up.

I honestly don't remember Calzaghe landing one clean, scoring shot in that whole fight. Hopkins didn't land much himself, but what he did throw landed and counted.

the fact that hopkins got hit more times in that fight than any other fight he'd ever had, and spent most of it wrestling or faking low blows, and you only saw one clean punch means ur either badly sited, need a 100mhz tv or are clearly bias. its was an obvious calzaghe win, hopkins didnt do anything after the 1st round.

kingfinn wrote:

Eraserhead wrote:I thought Hopkins beat Calzaghe, too. I also thought he'd get the decision at the end, and was shocked when they went for Calzaghe.

I'm sorry, as lazy as Hopkins was down the stretch, you don't win fights by slapping your arms in circles and bum-rushing an opponent in sheer desperation. Joe was a panicked mess all night against Hopkins, as he quickly realised B-Hop was superior to him technically and could make him look silly when he opened up.

I honestly don't remember Calzaghe landing one clean, scoring shot in that whole fight. Hopkins didn't land much himself, but what he did throw landed and counted.

the fact that hopkins got hit more times in that fight than any other fight he'd ever had, and spent most of it wrestling or faking low blows, and you only saw one clean punch means ur either badly sited, need a 100mhz tv or are clearly bias. its was an obvious calzaghe win, hopkins didnt do anything after the 1st round.

Hopkins got slapped more times in that fight than any other.

Are you really telling me that Calzaghe hit Hopkins with more clean, crisp and telling punches than Jermain Taylor did?

The first Taylor-Hopkins fight happened years before Calzaghe-Hopkins and yet I clearly remember at least three big right hands Taylor landed and a couple of left hooks. I can't remember a single (proper) punch Calzaghe landed on Hopkins.

I think Calzaghe did better vs Hopkins than Taylor.

I don't think ppl are being fair to Froch. It's almost like you're so used to Joe dominating a fighter good or bad, that it isn't legitimate to score a come from behind KO.


Froch did not fight in any kind of comfort zone, but he pulled out something special. If you look at the Pascal fight, he didn't have to knock Pascal out because he was likely 4 rounds ahead vs a very good fighter, future WBC 175 champ, by the end.

As if Froch has to come from behind vs any good fighter. Pascal - if he could still make 168 and keep his best abilities - would have been as worthy as anyone to get in the super 6.

martin_g91 wrote:Froch and Calzaghe are not if different leagues, they're almost in different sports. I know in boxing 2 and 2 don't make 4, but watch what Kessler does to Froch. After that you'll never hear Froch mention Calzaghe again.

agreed.

Eraserhead wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

Eraserhead wrote:I thought Hopkins beat Calzaghe, too. I also thought he'd get the decision at the end, and was shocked when they went for Calzaghe.

I'm sorry, as lazy as Hopkins was down the stretch, you don't win fights by slapping your arms in circles and bum-rushing an opponent in sheer desperation. Joe was a panicked mess all night against Hopkins, as he quickly realised B-Hop was superior to him technically and could make him look silly when he opened up.

I honestly don't remember Calzaghe landing one clean, scoring shot in that whole fight. Hopkins didn't land much himself, but what he did throw landed and counted.

the fact that hopkins got hit more times in that fight than any other fight he'd ever had, and spent most of it wrestling or faking low blows, and you only saw one clean punch means ur either badly sited, need a 100mhz tv or are clearly bias. its was an obvious calzaghe win, hopkins didnt do anything after the 1st round.

Hopkins got slapped more times in that fight than any other.

Are you really telling me that Calzaghe hit Hopkins with more clean, crisp and telling punches than Jermain Taylor did?

The first Taylor-Hopkins fight happened years before Calzaghe-Hopkins and yet I clearly remember at least three big right hands Taylor landed and a couple of left hooks. I can't remember a single (proper) punch Calzaghe landed on Hopkins.

I remember sitting down a few years ago with Arthur Abraham and chatting in a mix of English and German and him saying how he thought Calzaghe was such a great fighter. Joe, he said, had an impossible to read style, because while there were some soft punches and a few slaps, he would mix in some really hard shots, so the guy facing him was unable to set himself, as he never knew when Joe would throw a soft punch, or when the power shots were coming. Kessler said this too after he fought him, how he was just overwhelmed by the punches and didn't know what was coming.

If you think all Calzaghe did against Hopkins was slap, or rush him, you were watching that fight wearing blinkers. Joe was a much smarter fighter than that, a really clever technician, who was capable of changing tactics mid fight, was brave as hell and incredibly quick for a 12st fighter. And climbing off the floor twice in the first round to win is pretty impressive too.

Eraserhead wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

Eraserhead wrote:I thought Hopkins beat Calzaghe, too. I also thought he'd get the decision at the end, and was shocked when they went for Calzaghe.

I'm sorry, as lazy as Hopkins was down the stretch, you don't win fights by slapping your arms in circles and bum-rushing an opponent in sheer desperation. Joe was a panicked mess all night against Hopkins, as he quickly realised B-Hop was superior to him technically and could make him look silly when he opened up.

I honestly don't remember Calzaghe landing one clean, scoring shot in that whole fight. Hopkins didn't land much himself, but what he did throw landed and counted.

the fact that hopkins got hit more times in that fight than any other fight he'd ever had, and spent most of it wrestling or faking low blows, and you only saw one clean punch means ur either badly sited, need a 100mhz tv or are clearly bias. its was an obvious calzaghe win, hopkins didnt do anything after the 1st round.

Hopkins got slapped more times in that fight than any other.

Are you really telling me that Calzaghe hit Hopkins with more clean, crisp and telling punches than Jermain Taylor did?

The first Taylor-Hopkins fight happened years before Calzaghe-Hopkins and yet I clearly remember at least three big right hands Taylor landed and a couple of left hooks. I can't remember a single (proper) punch Calzaghe landed on Hopkins.

maybe u should watch the fight again. u froch lovers crack me up lol

quote]

I remember sitting down a few years ago with Arthur Abraham and chatting in a mix of English and German and him saying how he thought Calzaghe was such a great fighter. Joe, he said, had an impossible to read style, because while there were some soft punches and a few slaps, he would mix in some really hard shots, so the guy facing him was unable to set himself, as he never knew when Joe would throw a soft punch, or when the power shots were coming. Kessler said this too after he fought him, how he was just overwhelmed by the punches and didn't know what was coming.

If you think all Calzaghe did against Hopkins was slap, or rush him, you were watching that fight wearing blinkers. Joe was a much smarter fighter than that, a really clever technician, who was capable of changing tactics mid fight, was brave as hell and incredibly quick for a 12st fighter. And climbing off the floor twice in the first round to win is pretty impressive too.[/quote]

I know how Calzaghe fought. I know how deceptively effective he was. I watched him utilise that style for years and he peaked with it against Lacy and Kessler. That awkward style of his was a thing of beauty those nights.

Don't tell me it was just as effective against Hopkins though. It wasn't. I watched the fight. He realised he was technically out his depth early doors and was content to bum-rush and slap his way to victory.

Hey, it worked. He got the decision. Maybe he just did what he needed to do. There was nothing 'smart' or 'technical' about Joe that night, though. If anything, it was quite the opposite. For the first time in his career, Calzaghe was in against a man smarter and more technical than him. Joe, I guess, prevailed on youth, stamina and workrate.

RLewis wrote: I remember sitting down a few years ago with Arthur Abraham and chatting in a mix of English and German and him saying how he thought Calzaghe was such a great fighter. Joe, he said, had an impossible to read style, because while there were some soft punches and a few slaps, he would mix in some really hard shots, so the guy facing him was unable to set himself, as he never knew when Joe would throw a soft punch, or when the power shots were coming. Kessler said this too after he fought him, how he was just overwhelmed by the punches and didn't know what was coming.

If you think all Calzaghe did against Hopkins was slap, or rush him, you were watching that fight wearing blinkers. Joe was a much smarter fighter than that, a really clever technician, who was capable of changing tactics mid fight, was brave as hell and incredibly quick for a 12st fighter. And climbing off the floor twice in the first round to win is pretty impressive too.

Thanks for that post. Really insightful.

Deserter wrote:

RLewis wrote: I remember sitting down a few years ago with Arthur Abraham and chatting in a mix of English and German and him saying how he thought Calzaghe was such a great fighter. Joe, he said, had an impossible to read style, because while there were some soft punches and a few slaps, he would mix in some really hard shots, so the guy facing him was unable to set himself, as he never knew when Joe would throw a soft punch, or when the power shots were coming. Kessler said this too after he fought him, how he was just overwhelmed by the punches and didn't know what was coming.

If you think all Calzaghe did against Hopkins was slap, or rush him, you were watching that fight wearing blinkers. Joe was a much smarter fighter than that, a really clever technician, who was capable of changing tactics mid fight, was brave as hell and incredibly quick for a 12st fighter. And climbing off the floor twice in the first round to win is pretty impressive too.

Thanks for that post. Really insightful.

Indeed. RLewis should post more often.

Although I am 100% in agreement with Erasorhead, RLewis is an excellent poster

Calzaghe v Hopkins was weird. There was some ring craft, there was some amateurish desperation. It wasn't working early on, and he had to do this kind of bizarre improvisation. He cut the ring off, but he also stuck his chin out to draw Hopkins' lead which is very dangerous and I doubt was part of the game plan. He couldn't feint to draw Hopkins' lead, so he had to hang that chin out and looked very, very amateurish and silly. There was some science, as he could make Hopkins work, and all he had to worry about was a counter right hand OR left hook as he came in. So Joe would do these unusual things to get near Hopkins, so he could cuff with with a right hook from the inside of the glove or the odd clean-ish left cross. All that "just" to land half a shot. So it wasn't great, but it was effective - as Hopkins gassed late -, just about.

Joe didn't appear confident, seemed tense and to be suffering anxiety. He did the job but it wasn't the brilliant performance many wanted to see.

At least he went after Hopkins, raised the workrate, which many fighters didn't bother to do. Bhops was in the top 10 p4p, so it goes down as a big win; but by 'eck it was one of the worst fights of all time.

boxerbob wrote:calzaghe has brain damage

but its certainly not from all those top rated opponents he fought during his career

froch wants to fight the best
calzaghe fought the wbo bums of the month for 10 years

thats why you are undefeated joe

Froch wants to fight the best eh ?

Like who exactly ? Oh yeah, Jermain Taylor, the guy who is having more comebacks than Ali.......

Calzaghe also wanted to fight the best, but at his prime he was'nt commercial enough to go over to America and gain the big fights that he wanted, he was effectively frozen out intill the Kessler fight. Also, it was'nt Calzaghe's fault that the super-middle division was relatively weak in the last few years of his career and that can be seen by the fact that his two most notable fights, apart from Kessler, happenned at light-heavyweight. Calzaghe is right about Froch, Taylor was kicking his ass untill his stamina and naivety let Froch snatch the fight at the end. Froch's style is unorthadox to the point where it's only a matter of time before he get's knocked out big style.

I know how Calzaghe fought. I know how deceptively effective he was. I watched him utilise that style for years and he peaked with it against Lacy and Kessler. That awkward style of his was a thing of beauty those nights.

Don't tell me it was just as effective against Hopkins though. It wasn't. I watched the fight. He realised he was technically out his depth early doors and was content to bum-rush and slap his way to victory.

Hey, it worked. He got the decision. Maybe he just did what he needed to do. There was nothing 'smart' or 'technical' about Joe that night, though. If anything, it was quite the opposite. For the first time in his career, Calzaghe was in against a man smarter and more technical than him. Joe, I guess, prevailed on youth, stamina and workrate.

thats because hopkins had come to spoil not fight. i cant see how hopkins is a technically better fighter than calzaghe thats just nonsence, the smart thing was joe changed his tactics to suit and show that he could fight without finess aswell. hopkins made that a boring fight.

So looking at Kesslar's record who is there on it you don't think froch could beat? I think Kessler has fought at a higher level for longer which is his advantage in the potential match but I think Froch is a stronger fighter it's a very good fight.

People forget that Froch had a very strong ameter record and has really good boxing skills, and as with calzaghe has chainged tactics mid fight as he did with Pascal.

If Calzaghe wanted to make the Ottke fight it could have happened and I believe Froch (or Haye) would have done it.. now we have seen fighters going out there and making fights I think we get sick as boxing fans hearing people come back and say I could beat him and him when they showed no such ambition in their careers.

kingfinn wrote:

I know how Calzaghe fought. I know how deceptively effective he was. I watched him utilise that style for years and he peaked with it against Lacy and Kessler. That awkward style of his was a thing of beauty those nights.

Don't tell me it was just as effective against Hopkins though. It wasn't. I watched the fight. He realised he was technically out his depth early doors and was content to bum-rush and slap his way to victory.

Hey, it worked. He got the decision. Maybe he just did what he needed to do. There was nothing 'smart' or 'technical' about Joe that night, though. If anything, it was quite the opposite. For the first time in his career, Calzaghe was in against a man smarter and more technical than him. Joe, I guess, prevailed on youth, stamina and workrate.

thats because hopkins had come to spoil not fight. i cant see how hopkins is a technically better fighter than calzaghe thats just nonsence, the smart thing was joe changed his tactics to suit and show that he could fight without finess aswell. hopkins made that a boring fight.

Why don't you tell us how Joe is technically better than? When Joe was waiting on him and getting into a boxing match he was knocked down and losing. When he reverted to taking the role of aggressor and throwing wild flurries he pulled ahead. There was nothing technical about how he beat Hopkins. Hopkins is one of the finest technical boxers in the game. He is amazing at the little things. Tucking his chin in, keeping his hands up when he attacks/ is attacked, making little pivots, feints, etc. He also throws straighter, more textbook shots than Calzaghe does. Calzaghe notoriously throws slaps and leaves his chin out when throwing. He is effective but not technically gifted, those are two distinct entities.

Quixall wrote:

boxerbob wrote:calzaghe has brain damage

but its certainly not from all those top rated opponents he fought during his career

froch wants to fight the best
calzaghe fought the wbo bums of the month for 10 years

thats why you are undefeated joe

Froch wants to fight the best eh ?

Like who exactly ? Oh yeah, Jermain Taylor, the guy who is having more comebacks than Ali.......

that's the same jermain taylor that beat hopkins twice, three years before joe did. froch is wanting to fight the best because he is in the tournament coming up. joe wasn't commerical enough to come to the US because he didn't take any chances. froch is taking big chances by being in this tournament. do you think calzaghe would have joined in this tourney when he in the midst of defending his wbo title against bums?

Is someone really arguing that Joe Calzaghe is a better technical boxer than Bernard Hopkins? Purleeeeaaase.

You can argue the scoring of their fight all day, as at least that's subjective. But Calzaghe is, in no shape of form, a better technical fighter than Hopkins.

Put it this way, if you were teaching someone the fundamentals of our sport who would you want them to spend a couple of hours with - Joe or B-Hop? It's a no brainer.

In fact, Joe's methods and fundamental techniques, learnt from dad Enzo, were eventually exposed somewhat in the failings of Enzo's other titleholders. A lot of those guys were physically fit, but made shocking technical errors, inbuilt from just running steps and aimlessly pounding pads at close range for three hours.

Joe could obviously get away with technical errors because he was a once in a lifetime athlete with an unbreakable will to win and drive. He was a special fighter, but let's not go overboard on how technically great he was. He wasn't.

Joe is very messy when he fights counter punchers. He has wonderful speed and flair vs aggressive fighters, strong fighters. But the part of his game he never rounded out was vs counter punchers.

Hopkins is technically better, BUT he has little initiative, and has always been very reluctant to do something as simple as trading punches. He is such a cautious fighter, and his caution cost him vs Calzaghe and Taylor. A great defensive fighter, but you might say too defensive. In the 1st Taylor fight, Hopkins didn't properly go for the kill. He posed. It's like he wanted to appear "cool", so he wouldn't admit he could be behind, and wouldn't make sure of victory.

Neither Joe nor Hopkins are perfect. In their fight together, the ingredients they brought did not blend very well. One guy tried, one guy spoiled. Joe won it, but he didn't look like the legend he's supposed to be.

Enzo told Joe he needed a KO going into the 12th.

yeah, more to the point, as terry says - it was mostly boring.

lots of waiting for something to happen, and then disappointments. expectations raised and then cash outs. understandable because of lack of reward facing pavlik and dawson, i know. but still....

waiting for godot - nothing happens twice.

waiting for joe - nothing happens about 15 times.

let's go / we can't / why not?

we're wating for joe

ho ho ho

If he believes that then why doesn't he take the fight. I'm sure Wlad won't turn it down, and Calzaghe would have the chnce to surpass anyone's achievements in the sport. Super middleweight king, light heavyweight lineal champ, and then beats the number one heavyweight.

Oh, I forgot, Joe's mouth is embarressing. He's been listening to his dad too much.

Juts go away, Joe.

Terry D wrote:

MGethin wrote:Enzo told Joe he needed a KO going into the 12th.

Enzo made me laught that night. Screamed in Joe's face something along the lines of "Blah, blah, blah, you need this!" Cue Dena Powell with his "Ok, let's tell him how to go out and do it!" remark. Class. Enzo is pure class.

Good to see you posting, thanks for keeping us updated on where your career is headed. Outstanding fight with Sid

trust me, TRUST ME!! TRUST ME!! TRUST ME!!!!

Dioufy wrote:

Terry D wrote:

MGethin wrote:Enzo told Joe he needed a KO going into the 12th.

Enzo made me laught that night. Screamed in Joe's face something along the lines of "Blah, blah, blah, you need this!" Cue Dena Powell with his "Ok, let's tell him how to go out and do it!" remark. Class. Enzo is pure class.

Good to see you posting, thanks for keeping us updated on where your career is headed. Outstanding fight with Sid

trust me, TRUST ME!! TRUST ME!! TRUST ME!!!!

that's it, i don't trust enzo's judgement any more.

Bisada basida boshada!

Enzo Calzaghe has spoken...

What he means no one knows -but he has spoken!