BoxRec

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:When did Calzaghe anyone face an offensive force like Benn? And Please don't say Lacy who was never a puncher or particularly good.

- But those in the know do say Lacy who is dismissed these days by punchy soft lads who's expertise is anchoring their oversized derrieres to cushy chairs and sofas. 5 of the 7 ranked fighters Lacy fought prior to Joe fell to KO and he was undefeated with an overall KO% of 77%. He was Ring #1 and the betting favorite over Joe who was more experienced and fighting in his native environs.

There's a history of fighters like Lacy who rise rapidly to the top of the heap and then for a variety of reasons, they vanish from the top echelons just as sure as there are soft lads with oversized posteriors combined with undersized cranial capicity.

Unlike Benn, Lacy was a natural supermid, so whatever stylistic advantages Benn may be percieved as having, Lacy had less mileage, and was bigger and stronger to go with formidable power. His decline is related to physical problems that robbed him of his money punch and overall health.

DIRT SUGAR wrote: And who can forget a really past it Larry Holmes playing with Ray Mercer, whereas Lennox Lewis had night or death fight with him.

Good topic and proper fight talk in the pub subject that I like. Throws up great answers that get shot down by great answers that get plopped on by better answers etc etc etc:-)

- Apparently you did good and properly forget that Mercer came within a second of choking out Mr. Larry with one arm and probably a millimeter from breaking his neck upon release. Mercer muscled Mr. Larry the whole fight and toyed with him with tiny little slaps in the corner, but it wasn't boxing as recognized by the judges. Later in the year Mercer tried to bribe Ferguson to throw their fight, so was clearly having some personal issues since he wasn't going after fighters like he did Morrison.

The judges and the crowd hated the disprespect the bad boy showed the legend and chose not to reward him with a shot against Mr. Field, a King fighter who'd been gifted with on paper 3 of the first softest defenses since Mr. Larry owned the title. Mr. Larry never dominated any big fight in his comeback, more like he was looking ready for a walker, having to hang on the ropes to keep from keeling over.

What this has to do with Super Joe is beyond me since Super Joe had a better career than Mr. Larry and didn't fall apart at the seams like Mr. Larry did starting at age 33.

Dean Francis has been mentioned a few times in this thread,top domestic fighter at best,he would never be world class even before the injury...Calzaghe would have wiped the floor with him as he did in the ams....

Gazmac81 wrote:I honestly have to give Calzaghe the Benefit of the Doubt that he would be able to beat all of the above. His Boxing skills were amazing and Heart couldnt be Questioned during his fights , good Chin also.

The mans a winner

He is, but if I had tohave one of that list up against him I'd have been tempted by Nigel Benn. My reasoning was that Benn could take just about anything and, whilst Calzaghe was pretty tough himself, he could be hurt. If anyone was going to do that, it would be a prime Dark Destroyer.

I suppose you could make an argument for John Conteh too, purely on his being that much bigger in his prime.

I notice from the poll that there is alot of support for Carl Froch to have been the one to beat Calzaghe

Shame Calzaghe decided to sign of his career against a man who he said 3 or 4 years previously was shot to bits

A prime Calzaghe v a prime Conteh would have been the greatest British fight ever. Conteh's problem was that he wasn't prime for long enough, or he cold have been a great.

I can't believe anyone thinks a prime Joe would have lost to Collins or Francis, that just seems ridiculous. Remember we are talking about a prime Joe, to the young Calzaghe Collins retired rather than face.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:When did Calzaghe anyone face an offensive force like Benn? And Please don't say Lacy who was never a puncher or particularly good.

- But those in the know do say Lacy who is dismissed these days by punchy soft lads who's expertise is anchoring their oversized derrieres to cushy chairs and sofas. 5 of the 7 ranked fighters Lacy fought prior to Joe fell to KO and he was undefeated with an overall KO% of 77%. He was Ring #1 and the betting favorite over Joe who was more experienced and fighting in his native environs.

There's a history of fighters like Lacy who rise rapidly to the top of the heap and then for a variety of reasons, they vanish from the top echelons just as sure as there are soft lads with oversized posteriors combined with undersized cranial capicity.

Unlike Benn, Lacy was a natural supermid, so whatever stylistic advantages Benn may be percieved as having, Lacy had less mileage, and was bigger and stronger to go with formidable power. His decline is related to physical problems that robbed him of his money punch and overall health.

Seeing as you consistently seem to lambast every single opinion expressed on here, in a fit of contrarian ire, perhaps you would care to explain why us mere mortals are not entitled to comment on boxing, whilst you are uniquely qualified to deliver your lofty opinions from on high, you patronising prick.

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Thing about Eubank is that if you forced him to fight, he was very dangerous indeed. Even in their fight at the end of Eubank's career, Chris had Joe in a lot of trouble late in the fight. Imagine a younger, hungrier and fitter Eubank.



slightly unfair to go off that fight IMO as Joe was fighting his first 12 rounder and was utterly gassed. Eubank was seasoned over the distance.[/quote]

Yes, but Eubank was also a lot older, had a lot more miles on the clock, and came in at short notice.

think froch could beat calzaghe..people have hurt joe but couldn't finish him..byron mirchell chinned im and 1 more clean shot he would of ko'd calzaghe..don't think froch would let him off the hook if he hurt calzaghe..calzaghe was defo 1 of my favourite fighter's but he wasn't alway's willing to fight the best..you wouldn't see him entering a super 6 tourny

Tommy Gunn13 wrote:Dean Francis has been mentioned a few times in this thread,top domestic fighter at best,he would never be world class even before the injury...Calzaghe would have wiped the floor with him as he did in the ams....

domestic at best? when he won the euro title by one sided stoppage & dismissed guys that made joe and steve collins look bad. OK...

at worst, he had a world class left hand.

gemmell wrote:think froch could beat calzaghe..people have hurt joe but couldn't finish him..byron mirchell chinned im and 1 more clean shot he would of ko'd calzaghe..don't think froch would let him off the hook if he hurt calzaghe..calzaghe was defo 1 of my favourite fighter's but he wasn't alway's willing to fight the best..you wouldn't see him entering a super 6 tourny

Calzaghe was up at the count of 3 against Mitchell, and when he resumed, he turned on the afterburners and absolutely tore mitchell to pieces.

Calzaghe had about the best powers of recovery I think I've ever seen. Kabary Salem dropped him with an absolute whale of a shot and Calzaghe got up and looked none the worse for wear.

I love Froch, I admire his attitude, but I don't think he was good enough to have beaten Calzaghe, too many flaws.

joe to beat all them with ease ! he beat bhop could you ever see any of them beating the old master bhop ?

Datsue wrote:

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:
I'd also say Randy Turpin , only I expect someone will tell me he doesn't count because he was a light middle or something.

Oi! I've already said Turpin!

Randy was a beast of a man, had a neck like a sequioa, & an unorthodox awkwardness combined with a thumping jab. It is a fight I'd definitely like to have been present for.

it has become fashionable to underrate turpin, obviously due to his spotty record at world level. you know, robinson was tired & worn out when turpin beat him. ppl seem to forget that he had robinson in desperate trouble in their rematch. turpin looked a big, strong middle and bloody hell, what he could have done in this era with a WBO title & safe matchmaking...

danieljenkins wrote:joe to beat all them with ease ! he beat bhop could you ever see any of them beating the old master bhop ?

Conteh would have beaten the piss out of Hopkins, not some close SD.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

gemmell wrote:think froch could beat calzaghe..people have hurt joe but couldn't finish him..byron mirchell chinned im and 1 more clean shot he would of ko'd calzaghe..don't think froch would let him off the hook if he hurt calzaghe..calzaghe was defo 1 of my favourite fighter's but he wasn't alway's willing to fight the best..you wouldn't see him entering a super 6 tourny

Calzaghe was up at the count of 3 against Mitchell, and when he resumed, he turned on the afterburners and absolutely tore mitchell to pieces.

Calzaghe had about the best powers of recovery I think I've ever seen. Kabary Salem dropped him with an absolute whale of a shot and Calzaghe got up and looked none the worse for wear.

I love Froch, I admire his attitude, but I don't think he was good enough to have beaten Calzaghe, too many flaws.

I agree with all of what James said.....only what you call flaws I don't quite agree. I think "limitations" is a more appropriate word....it's only a flaw if you do something incorrectly, or don't do something you are capable of doing. If you aren't on that level in the first place, it isn't a flaw.
Sensible chap james, I'm sure you'll make some sense of that...

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:When did Calzaghe anyone face an offensive force like Benn? And Please don't say Lacy who was never a puncher or particularly good.

- But those in the know do say Lacy who is dismissed these days by punchy soft lads who's expertise is anchoring their oversized derrieres to cushy chairs and sofas. 5 of the 7 ranked fighters Lacy fought prior to Joe fell to KO and he was undefeated with an overall KO% of 77%. He was Ring #1 and the betting favorite over Joe who was more experienced and fighting in his native environs.

There's a history of fighters like Lacy who rise rapidly to the top of the heap and then for a variety of reasons, they vanish from the top echelons just as sure as there are soft lads with oversized posteriors combined with undersized cranial capicity.

Unlike Benn, Lacy was a natural supermid, so whatever stylistic advantages Benn may be percieved as having, Lacy had less mileage, and was bigger and stronger to go with formidable power. His decline is related to physical problems that robbed him of his money punch and overall health.

Well said, about 70% of the lads on here had him to get battered or knocked out by Lacy......hindsight is a wonderful thing

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

gemmell wrote:think froch could beat calzaghe..people have hurt joe but couldn't finish him..byron mirchell chinned im and 1 more clean shot he would of ko'd calzaghe..don't think froch would let him off the hook if he hurt calzaghe..calzaghe was defo 1 of my favourite fighter's but he wasn't alway's willing to fight the best..you wouldn't see him entering a super 6 tourny

Calzaghe was up at the count of 3 against Mitchell, and when he resumed, he turned on the afterburners and absolutely tore mitchell to pieces.

Calzaghe had about the best powers of recovery I think I've ever seen. Kabary Salem dropped him with an absolute whale of a shot and Calzaghe got up and looked none the worse for wear.

I love Froch, I admire his attitude, but I don't think he was good enough to have beaten Calzaghe, too many flaws.

I agree with all of what James said.....only what you call flaws I don't quite agree. I think "limitations" is a more appropriate word....it's only a flaw if you do something incorrectly, or don't do something you are capable of doing. If you aren't on that level in the first place, it isn't a flaw.
Sensible chap james, I'm sure you'll make some sense of that...

Well, I'm sure that Froch is capable of keeping his left hand up, however, he chooses to keep that left slung low so he can throw the jab in an unorthodox low-slung manner - this is a flaw, or at the least, a style that makes him very easy to hit.

Captain Hook wrote:

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:When did Calzaghe anyone face an offensive force like Benn? And Please don't say Lacy who was never a puncher or particularly good.

- But those in the know do say Lacy who is dismissed these days by punchy soft lads who's expertise is anchoring their oversized derrieres to cushy chairs and sofas. 5 of the 7 ranked fighters Lacy fought prior to Joe fell to KO and he was undefeated with an overall KO% of 77%. He was Ring #1 and the betting favorite over Joe who was more experienced and fighting in his native environs.

There's a history of fighters like Lacy who rise rapidly to the top of the heap and then for a variety of reasons, they vanish from the top echelons just as sure as there are soft lads with oversized posteriors combined with undersized cranial capicity.

Unlike Benn, Lacy was a natural supermid, so whatever stylistic advantages Benn may be percieved as having, Lacy had less mileage, and was bigger and stronger to go with formidable power. His decline is related to physical problems that robbed him of his money punch and overall health.

Well said, about 70% of the lads on here had him to get battered or knocked out by Lacy......hindsight is a wonderful thing

I hate to say it, I was one of them.

Yeah but at least you're honest mate.

He was a big puncher, everyone was raving about him.....he looked the real deal and was totally exposed.

Story of Calzaghe's career. No matter what he did - and I admit he could have done more - it was never enough for many people. He totally outclassed Lacy in every dept.

Like when Hatton beat Tszyu. All of a sudden he's grown old overnight. I had Tszyu to KO him early.....

Captain Hook wrote:

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote:

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:When did Calzaghe anyone face an offensive force like Benn? And Please don't say Lacy who was never a puncher or particularly good.

- But those in the know do say Lacy who is dismissed these days by punchy soft lads who's expertise is anchoring their oversized derrieres to cushy chairs and sofas. 5 of the 7 ranked fighters Lacy fought prior to Joe fell to KO and he was undefeated with an overall KO% of 77%. He was Ring #1 and the betting favorite over Joe who was more experienced and fighting in his native environs.

There's a history of fighters like Lacy who rise rapidly to the top of the heap and then for a variety of reasons, they vanish from the top echelons just as sure as there are soft lads with oversized posteriors combined with undersized cranial capicity.

Unlike Benn, Lacy was a natural supermid, so whatever stylistic advantages Benn may be percieved as having, Lacy had less mileage, and was bigger and stronger to go with formidable power. His decline is related to physical problems that robbed him of his money punch and overall health.

Well said, about 70% of the lads on here had him to get battered or knocked out by Lacy......hindsight is a wonderful thing

After the initial kerfuffle of it being a "50-50" fight which I got sucked into like most....isn't that why we love boxing?? ...I am pleased to be able to say that I was firmly on JC to beat Lacy.

(I don't even know what that little yellow man is actually doing, but it seemed like the best one to use!)

yeah but James....does that mean Naz was "flawed" when he won 95% of his fights. 75% of which were with contemptuous ease?
I watched highlights of the Johnson fight and whereas at the time I seem to remember Naz winning handily, Johnson hit him flush as you like with a couple of lovely shots.

Surely if you are winning James, then unorthodox rather than flawed is the correct word. If Froch stood upright with both hands tucked in, can we say he'd have had the same success?? No, cos it can't be proven.

Hook,

I agree and I to was totally sucked in by the Lacy hype. He looked tremendous in the Rob Reid fight (not so good in other fights, but I thought Reid still had alot to offer)... Fair play, Glen McCory didn't believe the hype and he got criticised for it.

However, Lacy is really the ONLY time in which Joe was in a "no win" situation with the fans. People were laying doubts on Hopkins way before they met, Eubank also. They were not "wise after the event" scenerio's. Thats why Joe was only the underdog twice in his career.

stujones wrote:Hook,

I agree and I to was totally sucked in by the Lacy hype. He looked tremendous in the Rob Reid fight (not so good in other fights, but I thought Reid still had alot to offer)... Fair play, Glen McCory didn't believe the hype and he got criticised for it.

However, Lacy is really the ONLY time in which Joe was in a "no win" situation with the fans. People were laying doubts on Hopkins way before they met, Eubank also. They were not "wise after the event" scenerio's. Thats why Joe was only the underdog twice in his career.

Twice? Do you mean Kessler and Lacy mate?

Captain Hook wrote:Yeah but at least you're honest mate.

He was a big puncher, everyone was raving about him.....he looked the real deal and was totally exposed.

Story of Calzaghe's career. No matter what he did - and I admit he could have done more - it was never enough for many people. He totally outclassed Lacy in every dept.

Like when Hatton beat Tszyu. All of a sudden he's grown old overnight. I had Tszyu to KO him early.....

Funny thing is, all the way until the Reid fight, I was literally laughing at anyone who thought Lacy would beat Calzaghe - then I saw him decapitate the iron chinned Reid and I suddenly had my road to damascus moment, or so I thought. I changed my prediction and plumped for Lacy by take KO. Calzaghe had looked like he was becoming a bit more beatable in the fights leading up, and Lacy looked awesome against even a shopworn Reid.

similarly, I thought Kostya Tszyu would stop Hatton in the mid to late rounds. I just didn't think Ricky was good enough to beat Tszyu.

He was also underdog for the Mark Delaney fight