BoxRec

Is that Fat useless Bitch Irene getting all menopausal again?

Goodnight, Irene wrote:My big problem in this thread is this (paraphrased)...

"That wasnt the point. Goodnight, Irene implied that Joe Louis would knock out any version of the 64-76 Ali."

That is so far removed from the reality of what I said, it's laughable.

I said Louis couldn't knock out Ali from 64-76.

You put that in quotes and said "what a joke".

Maybe you misread what I wrote or read it in a hurry .

What did I say was a joke or what about my saying the 64-76 Ali could not be knocked out by Joe Louis was a joke then?

Collins2000 wrote:Is that Fat useless Bitch Irene getting all menopausal again?

How do you know he's fat?

ThatOne wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:Is that Fat useless Bitch Irene getting all menopausal again?

How do you know he's fat?

She sent me a photo and an invitation to "meat" her.

ThatOne wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:Is that Fat useless Bitch Irene getting all menopausal again?

How do you know he's fat?

He doesn't, & I'm not, nor am I a woman. Collins has been hunting various members of the Forum for months now --- I've been one of them. I won't bore you with any further details. Suffice it to say, he's closer to a ban than he's smart enough to realise.

At any rate, to clarify, I find it far-fetched that Ali could not be knocked out, anytime, between '64 & '76 by a fighter like Louis.

Louis has the ability, IMO, to knock out (or stop) any Heavyweight who ever drew breath. That includes the 25-year-old, unbeaten Ali of '67, at the top of his game. If you disagree, then you disagree, but to say the peak Louis could not (not would not, but could not) KO the 19-0, 22-year-old Ali who stopped Liston, or the 33-year-old Ali who stopped Frazier, is untenable for mine.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

ThatOne wrote:

Collins2000 wrote:Is that Fat useless Bitch Irene getting all menopausal again?

How do you know he's fat?

He doesn't, & I'm not, nor am I a woman. Collins has been hunting various members of the Forum for months now --- I've been one of them. I won't bore you with any further details. Suffice it to say, he's closer to a ban than he's smart enough to realise.

At any rate, to clarify, I find it far-fetched that Ali could not be knocked out, anytime, between '64 & '76 by a fighter like Louis.

Louis has the ability, IMO, to knock out (or stop) any Heavyweight who ever drew breath. That includes the 25-year-old, unbeaten Ali of '67, at the top of his game. If you disagree, then you disagree, but to say the peak Louis could not (not would not, but could not) KO the 19-0, 22-year-old Ali who stopped Liston, or the 33-year-old Ali who stopped Frazier, is untenable for mine.

Muhammad Ali has the ability, IMO, to defeat any Heavyweight who ever drew breath. That includes the 25-year-old, Joe Louis of 1939, at the top of his game. If you disagree, then you disagree, but to say the peak Louis could KO the 19-0, 22-year-old Ali who stopped Liston, or the 33-year-old Ali who stopped Frazier, is unfathomable to me.

In that period he beat three heavyweight All Time Greats and one near heavyweight All Time Great . He also beat the theretofore indestructable George Foreman when he was past his prime.

Got to agree with the above poster.

Joe Louis KOi'ng Ali is obviously not beyond the realms of possibilty, but judging how Ali's career panned it, I find it extremely unlikely that Louis would have done that to a peak Ali.

If anything, it is more like the the other way around.

From 1964 to 1976 Ali faced all categories of fighters-counterpunchers, sluggers, and pressure fighters and he tasted the canvas but twice and he was up at the two second count in both fights. How anybody can watch the Ali of Kinshasha, the Ali of Manila, or even the relatively untested Ali of Madison Square Garden and casually say he could be knocked out is inconceievable to me.


And if Joe Louis comes to Miami Beach with the same contemptuous attitude that Sonny Liston brought I submit it is much more likely it would have been him retiring on the stool after the seventh round than Muhammad Ali.

Syntax Error wrote:Got to agree with the above poster.

Joe Louis KOi'ng Ali is obviously not beyond the realms of possibilty, but judging how Ali's career panned it, I find it extremely unlikely that Louis would have done that to a peak Ali.

If anything, it is more like the the other way around.

You've misread, mate. ThatOne is saying Louis could not KO any version of Ali between 1964 & 1976. Btw, TO, I don't dispute Ali can beat Louis, in or outside the distance, but to call Louis beating Ali --- even a quite old, supremely hittable Ali ---inside the distance, "unfathomable" is something I can't seriously entertain.

We simply disagree then, ThatOne --- very strongly.

ThatOne wrote:From 1964 to 1976 Ali faced all categories of fighters-counterpunchers, sluggers, and pressure fighters and he tasted the canvas but twice and he was up at the two second count in both fights. How anybody can watch the Ali of Kinshasha, the Ali of Manila, or even the relatively untested Ali of Madison Square Garden and casually say he could be knocked out is inconceievable to me.


And if Joe Louis comes to Miami Beach with the same contemptuous attitude that Sonny Liston brought I submit it is much more likely it would have been him retiring on the stool after the seventh round than Muhammad Ali.

He never, at any stage in his career, faced a fighter who combined the following --- perfect punching technique, blistering, all-time handspeed, possibly the best accuracy of any fighter, ever, & one-punch KO power with the best combinations in Heavyweight --- maybe boxing, period --- history.

The KO or TKO is within the realms of possibility for Louis against anyone. Even the Superman the masses call Ali.

"Superman"-That's a nice red herring. There's as much mass adulation around Joe Louis. I formed my opinion of Muhammad Ali by myself, when I was a boy in the 60's History has only confirmed my opinion, not shaped it or inlfluenced it.

Foreman and Shavers hit every bit as hard as Joe Louis and they couldn't knock out Ali; the latter boxer when he was done with hardly any reflexes at all and Ali allowed the former to use him as a punching bag.

Ali was hard to hit and when you hit him he didn't go down and on the rare occasion he did go down he got back up. That's what made him special. The greatest chin in heavyweight history with the possible exception of Rocky Marciano.

P.S. 75 Ali is only thirty three years old; one year removed from his biggest victory, the destruction of the theretofore indestructable George Foreman.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Shavers' chin was at least suspect.

Anyway, Hearns is a stand-out shout. What about a, Super-Chin, No Punch thread?

Malinaggi, Calzaghie, Camacho, Whitaker, for the moment Chambers and Kevin Johnson. Good chins with no punch.

bollox wrote:Julian Jackson immediately comes to mind

As an aside, do fighters keep their chins as they get older? I think not, although this is not universal. A good example of a fighter losing his punch resistance is Jeff Fenech. Towards the end of his career he was stopped or KO'd by the likes of Calvin Grove where in his prime Grove couldn't have even mildly bothered him with his shots

Leonard, who could take bombs from Hearns but submitted to Camacho later in his career.

ThatOne wrote:"Superman"-That's a nice red herring. There's as much mass adulation around Joe Louis. I formed my opinion of Muhammad Ali by myself, when I was a boy in the 60's History has only confirmed my opinion, not shaped it or inlfluenced it.

Foreman and Shavers hit every bit as hard as Joe Louis and they couldn't knock out Ali; the latter boxer when he was done with hardly any reflexes at all and Ali allowed the former to use him as a punching bag.

Ali was hard to hit and when you hit him he didn't go down and on the rare occasion he did go down he got back up. That's what made him special. The greatest chin in heavyweight history with the possible exception of Rocky Marciano.

P.S. 75 Ali is only thirty three years old; one year removed from his biggest victory, the destruction of the theretofore indestructable George Foreman.

It's clear at this stage you can't distinguish the difference between a Foreman & a Shavers when compared with Louis. Obviously, all three are just hard-punchers to your not-so-discerning eye, & that's that.

Louis' raw hitting power is approaching that of Foreman & Shavers, but he brings so, so much more to the table as an offensive weapon than either of those two --- an obvious notion you are either unable or unwilling (I hope it's the latter) to acknowledge.

Of course I will admit that Louis is Big George's and Shavers technical superior however I am not convinced he can beat the former.


All we know is Muhammad Ali had 61 professional fights, fought three heavyweight All Time Greats, one heavyweight near all time Great, nine Hall Of Famers and was never stopped unless you want to include the debacle against Larry Holmes.

And unless your favorite fighter is Rocky Marciano you shouldn't bring it up.

That says something.

People say Ali had a weak punch but he seemed to be able to pull out big shots when he needed them. I think like Johnson his game plan wasn't about power but he could find killer shots when he needed to.

Also, an accurate shot will put someone on queer street. Guys like Louis, Tyson and Dempsey had speed, power and accuracy - a deadly combination.

Back to the topic...

Hearns only really got chinny when he was older and far north of 147.

How about Bob Satterfield???

Ezzard wrote:People say Ali had a weak punch but he seemed to be able to pull out big shots when he needed them. I think like Johnson his game plan wasn't about power but he could find killer shots when he needed to.

Also, an accurate shot will put someone on queer street. Guys like Louis, Tyson and Dempsey had speed, power and accuracy - a deadly combination.

Back to the topic...

Hearns only really got chinny when he was older and far north of 147.

How about Bob Satterfield???

Somebody mentioned Camacho-Leonard. Leonard was also down twice against Hearns in their rematch. I think his reflexes were beginning to go against Hearns and they were already gone when he fough Camacho; he was forty years old and hadn't fought for five years.

I think having a good chin is a function of avoiding getting hit and reacting well when you get hit; the great fighter react better than the ordinary ones.

ThatOne wrote:

Ezzard wrote:People say Ali had a weak punch but he seemed to be able to pull out big shots when he needed them. I think like Johnson his game plan wasn't about power but he could find killer shots when he needed to.

Also, an accurate shot will put someone on queer street. Guys like Louis, Tyson and Dempsey had speed, power and accuracy - a deadly combination.

Back to the topic...

Hearns only really got chinny when he was older and far north of 147.

How about Bob Satterfield???

Somebody mentioned Camacho-Leonard. Leonard was also down twice against Hearns in their rematch. I think his reflexes were beginning to go against Hearns and they were already gone when he fough Camacho; he was forty years old and hadn't fought for five years.

I think having a good chin is a function of avoiding getting hit and reacting well when you get hit; the great fighter react better than the ordinary ones.

Some guys just seem to have skulls made of stone. Others have reflexes that allow them to roll (even by a minute amount) that allows them to take a percentage of the power away from the incoming traffic. I think once Ray lost his reflexes and timing even a little he was much more susceptible to KDs.

In Ali's pre-exile, pre-championship years, he gets hurt a few times by guys who later on (in the 70s) would not have troubled him. Obviously as he got older he set himself to take punches... He also had a top beard to start with.

IKSRTFO wrote:

bollox wrote:Julian Jackson immediately comes to mind

As an aside, do fighters keep their chins as they get older? I think not, although this is not universal. A good example of a fighter losing his punch resistance is Jeff Fenech. Towards the end of his career he was stopped or KO'd by the likes of Calvin Grove where in his prime Grove couldn't have even mildly bothered him with his shots

Leonard, who could take bombs from Hearns but submitted to Camacho later in his career.

Good shout.

Leonard had a granite chin in his peak, but later on his his career, he was often floored in fights.

Saying that, Camacho apart, he always got up to complete a fight.

Ezzard- Regarding Ali it would be nice if he could talk about his fights. I'll put the FOTC aside because I haven't watched it in awhile but there was never a point in his post exile years where "he looked like he was about to go"; not against Foreman, not against Shavers, and not against Frazier- his hardest hitting post exille opponents. It would be interesting to know his reaction to eating all those big punches.

We know bits and pieces that "he said he was out on his feet" against Foreman and Shavers shook him in the second round and that fighting Frazier in Manila was like dying.

ThatOne wrote:Ezzard- Regarding Ali it would be nice if he could talk about his fights. I'll put the FOTC aside because I haven't watched it in awhile but there was never a point in his post exile years where "he looked like he was about to go"; not against Foreman, not against Shavers, and not against Frazier- his hardest hitting post exille opponents. It would be interesting to know his reaction to eating all those big punches.

We know bits and pieces that "he said he was out on his feet" against Foreman and Shavers shook him in the second round and that fighting Frazier in Manila was like dying.

It would be great to hear him discuss his experiences.

One thing he had (which Leonard had too) was the ability to look less hurt than he really was. I mean he took some monster shots and must have been close to being out but somehow he manages (for the most part) to look like he was okay.

Randall Bailey great punch, not so great chin.

Paulie Malignaggi can't crack an egg, but it seems he has a pretty sturdy chin.

ThatOne wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:
At any rate, to clarify, I find it far-fetched that Ali could not be knocked out, anytime, between '64 & '76 by a fighter like Louis.

Louis has the ability, IMO, to knock out (or stop) any Heavyweight who ever drew breath. That includes the 25-year-old, unbeaten Ali of '67, at the top of his game. If you disagree, then you disagree, but to say the peak Louis could not (not would not, but could not) KO the 19-0, 22-year-old Ali who stopped Liston, or the 33-year-old Ali who stopped Frazier, is untenable for mine.

Muhammad Ali has the ability, IMO, to defeat any Heavyweight who ever drew breath. That includes the 25-year-old, Joe Louis of 1939, at the top of his game. If you disagree, then you disagree, but to say the peak Louis could KO the 19-0, 22-year-old Ali who stopped Liston, or the 33-year-old Ali who stopped Frazier, is unfathomable to me.

In that period he beat three heavyweight All Time Greats and one near heavyweight All Time Great . He also beat the theretofore indestructable George Foreman when he was past his prime.

TheOne is unrelenting in his sell, sell, sell of Ali.

Disagree about Hearns, his chin wasn't great, but it wasn't weak either. He never took a ten count and wasn't dropped more than 6 or 7 times in a career that spanned 7 divisions and countless elite competition.

Didn't read the whole thread though I'm sure Morrison & Bruno have already been mentioned.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Disagree about Hearns, his chin wasn't great, but it wasn't weak either. He never took a ten count and wasn't dropped more than 6 or 7 times in a career that spanned 7 divisions and countless elite competition.

Didn't read the whole thread though I'm sure Morrison & Bruno have already been mentioned.

Bruno never had a weak chin; his problem was that he was a slow as a snail in a bowl of molasses mixed with treacle; he had poor stamina & an inability to improvise under pressure.

Bruno took some thunderous punches on the chin from the likes of Witherspoon, Boneclutcher, Tyson & Lewis & he never took repeated counts etc.