BoxRec

good shout alex

sticking him in with Lawton turned out pretty badly too.

J wrote:

stujones wrote:William Joppy vs Roberto Duran

I also thought Saverese vs Tyson was a little bit pointless - maybe not the worst match up for a Tyson looking to shake off the rust - but for an un heard of yank to take on Tyson in the UK.

tyson had plenty of gimmes on his career ...ettienne, francis, saverese, nielsen, buster mathis, Mcneely.......christ alive if lewis had of fought at that standard after losing to mcall he would have been slaughtered.

Justin Fortune wasn't great shakes. Edit - checked his record he lost to Buster Mathis a couple of fights before taking on Lewis in 1995. Lewis vs Fortune is as bad as anything mentioned looking at it. He's recently embarked on a comeback at 8 years out of the ring.

Speaking of Lewis - how about Rahman's decision to rematch Lewis for a terrible pay day. Didn't he take pay cut thinking a victory would free him up and give him more money.

He was offered more, by King, to defend against the much much easier David Izon, and Tyson was on the cards also. Didn't he take a terrible wage for Lewis but signed a deal which would give him a good share of the PPV figures.

What about Eubank's tour of Egypt - hardly successfull.

agreed stu but that was after fighting lionel butler a gatekeeper of the divison in his comeback after losing to mccall.

then he fought tommy morrison. hardly comparable to the 5-6 stiffs tyson fought n that period.

i mean julius francis sold advertising on the bottom of his shoes for fucksake.

J wrote:agreed stu but that was after fighting lionel butler a gatekeeper of the divison in his comeback after losing to mccall.

then he fought tommy morrison. hardly comparable to the 5-6 stiffs tyson fought n that period.

i mean julius francis sold advertising on the bottom of his shoes for fucksake.

Absolutely - Butler (although never really mounted to much or did anything) was considered a live wire... he never proved to be a gate keeper but was considered a BIG threat at the time. Tommy Morrison was coming off a career best win and was right back in the mix.

Although looking at individual fights and not a run - Lewis vs Fortune was pretty shocking.

Lewis vs Frans Botha was pretty bad also - never really seen a PPV before of since marketed with the angle of a "celebration" before.... even the Tyson ones there was always some angle of "you never know" all because of Tyson's fault mind.... e.g. "ring rust", bad training camp (Etteine) and even "can Tyson keep to the rules this time".

Sorry, not trying to say these were better fighters than Lewis vs Botha - just commenting really on PPV angles.

not a problem pal, its good to talk

fair comment really im biased when it comes to lenn anyway...

ed robinson wrote:The only thing I'd say about the David Walker / Roman Karmazin fight is that it was a career best pay day for Dave. It was a shot at the European title and David could punch a bit, no one gave him much chance but Robert McCracken wasn't going to let him get hurt. I've got a lot of time for David who is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet and as game as they come but he very nearly lost to Spencer Fearon for the Southern Area title and I think Spencer took that at late notice. If you're managing / promoting David and you can get him the European title fight then you've got to offer it to him. David didn't have anything to lose, he was in the Sun every day for a week as they were sponsoring the show and he dropped back down a level afterwards.

I think a bad bit of matchmaking is when you're taking a big risk with nothing to gain - if you're not getting paid well, risking your title or fighting someone dangerous who no one knows about anyway.

Absolutely correct!!!

I remember walking to the shops from the Lennox Lewis College with Robert McCracken when he asked me what I thought concerning Karmazin/Walker - my face said it all but did say Davey had a punchers chance if he caught Karmazin cold and early - in addition at the time I quite openly said there was a lot of deleberation with Hennessy and McCracken even before they put the fight option to Davey - Davey jumped at the chance as well as the pay day - but I stress "Meaty Mick" thought long and hard before finally getting the contracts drawn up - I do have to say it was also a good move for Meaty Mick at the time - he was relatively new to the promotional game - he had the larger of the halls at the Ally Pally packed to the rafters with Millwall fans baying for blood and as a new promoter he had a European Title show on mainstream TV as well as giving his fighter a large pay day - there was no way Meaty or Robert would have put Davey in the ring if they didnt think he had a punchers chance - Davey at the time was their favourite due to his personal circumstances!!!

Finally whilst in hindsight it was a tadge harsh matchmaking - the way Davey fought he could just as well loose against a journeyman as he would against a class boxer - on a good day he could have also beaten them!!

A truly top class bloke who always had a good word to say to anyone he came across - I am sure he fought against Matt Scriven in Nottingham - Davey eventually won and a great big smile came across my face because the couple of hundread squaddies I got there that night gave him a tremednous reception!!!

So was it with "workers hat" on when you were publically tipping Walker to win?

Spud wrote:

ed robinson wrote:The only thing I'd say about the David Walker / Roman Karmazin fight is that it was a career best pay day for Dave. It was a shot at the European title and David could punch a bit, no one gave him much chance but Robert McCracken wasn't going to let him get hurt. I've got a lot of time for David who is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet and as game as they come but he very nearly lost to Spencer Fearon for the Southern Area title and I think Spencer took that at late notice. If you're managing / promoting David and you can get him the European title fight then you've got to offer it to him. David didn't have anything to lose, he was in the Sun every day for a week as they were sponsoring the show and he dropped back down a level afterwards.

I think a bad bit of matchmaking is when you're taking a big risk with nothing to gain - if you're not getting paid well, risking your title or fighting someone dangerous who no one knows about anyway.

Absolutely correct!!!

I remember walking to the shops from the Lennox Lewis College with Robert McCracken when he asked me what I thought concerning Karmazin/Walker - my face said it all but did say Davey had a punchers chance if he caught Karmazin cold and early - in addition at the time I quite openly said there was a lot of deleberation with Hennessy and McCracken even before they put the fight option to Davey - Davey jumped at the chance as well as the pay day - but I stress "Meaty Mick" thought long and hard before finally getting the contracts drawn up - I do have to say it was also a good move for Meaty Mick at the time - he was relatively new to the promotional game - he had the larger of the halls at the Ally Pally packed to the rafters with Millwall fans baying for blood and as a new promoter he had a European Title show on mainstream TV as well as giving his fighter a large pay day - there was no way Meaty or Robert would have put Davey in the ring if they didnt think he had a punchers chance - Davey at the time was their favourite due to his personal circumstances!!!

Finally whilst in hindsight it was a tadge harsh matchmaking - the way Davey fought he could just as well loose against a journeyman as he would against a class boxer - on a good day he could have also beaten them!!

A truly top class bloke who always had a good word to say to anyone he came across - I am sure he fought against Matt Scriven in Nottingham - Davey eventually won and a great big smile came across my face because the couple of hundread squaddies I got there that night gave him a tremednous reception!!!

More name dropping and "exclusive inside information" from Spud

bruno v joe bugner the guy was like 60 or something

the truth wrote:bruno v joe bugner the guy was like 60 or something

Well - yes, but on paper Bugner hadn't long come off a good win over Greg Page and was AMAZINGLY mentioned by some British media as a worthy challenger to Tyson before the Bruno fight.

Some people were tipping Bugner, Terry Marsh for instance.

Bugner came in terrible shape. 20 lbs heavier than another good win over James Tillis.

What was worst was his fight with Scott Welch.

standing8 wrote:Worst ever

Enzo Maccarinelli V Bobby gunn

SHOCKER!!!!!! and for a World title

Indeed. I wrote at the time that even the aforementioned Damon Reed (who is now a cruiser) would quite honestly have been a better opponent for Enzo than Gunn.

Horse wrote:

standing8 wrote:Worst ever

Enzo Maccarinelli V Bobby gunn

SHOCKER!!!!!! and for a World title

Did Bobby Gunn gain credibility before he got a second World title fight against IBF and Ring champion Tomasz Adamek?

Or was that also considered an awful piece of match-making?

Yes it was. Even worse, in my mind, because a) Enzo was inferior to Adamek, b) Enzo had already proved that Gunn was as duff as he looked, and c) the IBF is supposedly a higher standard than the WBO.

But some people on the Current Scene defended the match as a "stay busy" affair.

gobbles wrote:Small v McDonagh - whoever realised that wasn't going to stink the place out needs their head examining.

Along those lines, how about Henry Akinwande v Johnny Nelson!

stujones wrote:Speaking of Lewis - how about Rahman's decision to rematch Lewis for a terrible pay day. Didn't he take pay cut thinking a victory would free him up and give him more money.

I think Rahman was obliged to fight Lewis after Lewis invoked his contracted rematch clause through the courts. Rahman was indeed lined up to defend against Izon but Lewis played the legal card.

hitman_hatton1 wrote:pele reid vs orlin norris - WTF was all this about?

amir khan vs breidis prescott - u don't put a prospect in with an unknown fighter who can punch.

joe calzaghe vs tocker pudwill -

herbie hide vs damon reid -

Ricky Hatton v Manny Pacquioa - was just never going to be a happy ending to that one

Justin Fortune wasn't great shakes. Edit - checked his record he lost to Buster Mathis a couple of fights before taking on Lewis in 1995. Lewis vs Fortune is as bad as anything mentioned looking at it. He's recently embarked on a comeback at 8 years out of the ring.

Justin was trained by Freddie Roache....just goes to show that you dont produce great fighters all the time,

J wrote:i mean julius francis sold advertising on the bottom of his shoes for fucksake.

Just briefly on the Walker v Karmazin fight, Dave may have shown a bit of power at domestic level at welter but nothing to suggest he had a chance of hurting the much bigger Russian at the higher weight. He had no punchers chance.

As for other examples, Gomez v Juuko was pretty bad

Samuel Brooks wrote:
Ricky Hatton v Manny Pacquioa - was just never going to be a happy ending to that one

Eh? You think Hatton facing Pacquiao was one of the worst pieces of matchmaking in history ?!

Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but sticking Maccarinelli in with Lebedev was asking for trouble given Lebedevs power and Macc's chin. Prob not the worst but poor all the same.

Toks Owoh v Glenn Johnson

Many people here are using uneven matches as their examples but that isn't a matchmaker necessarily doing a bad job.
If a champion is getting an easy win or an unlikely challenger is getting top money it can be said that is a job well done, this is boxing after all. Ed Robinson's comments are bang on the mark.

Owoh was being touted for a world title shot and Johnson was brought over on a 4 fight losing streak. Obviously they thought Johnson was finished but beating a man who had mixed in world class could elevate the Londoner. I doubt it was cheap to get Johnson over, Owoh would have been paid chump change, but it all went wrong, Owoh was well beat and was never the same again,

For me Esham Pickering V Mauricio Martinez stands out. While Esham went on to be a good fighter he just was not ready on this night.

kelly pavlik - bernard hopkins. de-railed big time

Not sure how thats bad matchmaking. He beats jermain taylor twice, who beat Hopkins twice, who is by now 42 and coming off a defeat..

I think most people on this board tipped Pavlik to win, and im not even sure if the bookies did too.

Wales wrote:Not sure how thats bad matchmaking. He beats jermain taylor twice, who beat Hopkins twice, who is by now 42 and coming off a defeat..

I think most people on this board tipped Pavlik to win, and im not even sure if the bookies did too.

The move up in weight, Pavlik's reported condition in the build up and going against an old man that knows more than anybody - but still people won't be giving you too much praise should you beat him.

With hindsight (which we have) it was poor piece of matchmaking