Green calls out Mundine

[dan h]

Now I get get it... Danny Green is trying to steal kids!!!

Just like when he saved that drowning surfer, he didn't do it because he's a good guy and someone's life was in danger, he did it for some ulterior motive!!!

Do you think Green came up with the idea when he was at home thinking to himself "How can I help the indigenous youth of Australia" or do you think it was when he was thinking to himself "I need a big fight, I need a way to back mundine into a corner so he has to take a fight with me".

Regardless of your response I am sure we both know which is more accurate,.

Of course we do but that doesn't make it is horrible thing to do.

Do you think benefit concerts and the like are simply there because someone was sitting around thinking they want to help. Big bands like U2 have plenty of money, they could just donate without bringing attenion to it but that's not they way it works.

When U2 plays a benefit concert are they "increasing racial divide"?

I don't htink it increasing racial devide. I just think he used a very good and noble idea as a marketing gimmick. It is great he want to give the money. I just think it would have been even better if he got mundine to take the fight before hand and then they both announced the 10% contribution to indigenous youth afterwards.

But you are right, as long as the money goes to the youth who need then it is a good thing.

[Willem]

The racial divide issue is separate to this charity issue. Green markets himself as an "aussie larrikin" in opposition to Mundine, who is somehow not an "aussie". Whether this is his intent or not, Green has a disproportionate number of white fans (or Mundine haters), and Mundine has a disproportionate number of non-white fans. Green definitely plays on this in his publicity.

And yes, the U2 charity concerts (while they are different, because they're giving a lot more than 10% away)...are lame, and to be honest, yes they are harmful. Noel Pearson's view that the provision of welfare breeds apathy, and keeps indigenous youth down, is mirrored throughout the world. There are plenty of intelligent people who have been involved with aid, like that supported by Bono, that basically think it should end, that it is an extension of colonialism (applied by Westerners to non-whites), and that it does more harm than good (notably, in popular literature, Dambisa Moyo).

So no, Danny Green is not stealing children. But he has no idea what he's doing. Specifically how is this $800,000 going to assist indigenous youth. How does he figure that the new organisation that he forms, will effectively assist indigenous youth, and that he won't, in his inexperience and ignorance, do more harm than good.

For all the money that goes into aid, the results tend to be mediocre at best, and at worst, the results can be negative.

The problem is, that most people just think 'charity' and think good. So for the majority of the Australian public, the issue is as simple as "lots of money for poor indigenous kids" and Anthony Mundine shouldn't deny that to them. It takes a lot of explanation to lay out why this isn't a positive thing, and most people just don't get it, maintaining the simple "charity = good" mentality.

[Marlin]

Out of interest how do you feel about the Indigenous All Stars taking on the NRL All Stars on the weekend?

[Willem]

On one level, I'll be quite happy to see a game.
The indigenous players seem to have embraced the idea, so I guess there's no problem with it.
But it does seem a bit odd, who to barrack for...I can see why people will support the indigenous team, but I don't think anyone much will be captivated by the "the rest" team.

I think it'll probably be a bit of a flop on account of there being only one side that anyone has any real affinity with.

[Marlin]

Do you have a problem with the concept? Isn't it creating divide?

What if they created a "white Anglo All Stars" team?

[toppity]

This has turned interesting quickly.

It is an interesting thing reading these comments. What it still appears to be is people who support Mundine vs those that support Green. Arguments, that I'm sure seem logical to those that write them, are being made more based on this primary preferences, rather than the actual issues.

IMO opinion the following seems to be clear in my mind. Remember this is my opinion from my observations........

1) Mundine in Boxing - Mundine fights scrubs. He has not pushed himself for a long...long time now. He cons the Australian general public and talks poorly towards many people. With regards to contribution to Australian boxing, I consider him as significant underachiever as there has ever been.
2) Mundine outside boxing - Mundine does many good things already for Charity, especially in the inner city areas. This can not be questioned.
3) Green inside Boxing - Danny Green is good for the sport of boxing in Australia. He brought the biggest name ever (shot or not) to Australian shores. He promotes good cards and fights good fights. He does it with the right attitude and people (from all walks of Australian life) seem to enjoy the way he fights.
4) Green Outside Boxing - Outside the ring Danny appears to have done little, if anything, to be seen as a disgrace. In fact it appears to me that to call him such you would have to have an agenda to discredit him (many people have agenda's for many reasons). Whatever the motive, offering money to charity, new or not, seems to be a good thing. Unless that money was gained from some serious crime, I can not think of a situation in which Danny/Mundine giving $100K's to charity is bad.

Finally, I had to laugh to myself. A poster mentioned that the money isn't even going to a charity of Mundines choice. The question I ask is - WHO THE FUCK made Anthony Mundine the doyen of distribution of charitable funds to the indigenous community? It seems a strange thing to presume.

that's my take....oh and btw Mundine won't take the fight

[toppity]

Do you have a problem with the concept? Isn't it creating divide?

What if they created a "white Anglo All Stars" team?

That would be racist...as is creating an Indigenous team. Anything that excludes other based on race is, of course, racist

[dberry]

Do you have a problem with the concept? Isn't it creating divide?

What if they created a "white Anglo All Stars" team?

That would be racist...as is creating an Indigenous team. Anything that excludes other based on race is, of course, racist

Bravo.

[Willem]

Yeah, they'd never create a "white Anglo All Stars" team, and most whites wouldn't feel comfortable supporting a team that openly celebrated whiteness. Though people are happy to celebrate the more abstract concept of "aussie-ness" (bringing this back to Danny Green), even though it is primarily associated with whiteness.

Whites are the dominant majority, and historically as a people, we attained that position by committing numerous acts of genocide against indigenous peoples. So to celebrate that ethnicity cast against the numerous indigenous cultures, is problematic in the context of history.

Sure it creates a divide in a sense, it is everyone of any indigenous Australian ethnicity vs the rest. But precisely for the reason that I think it will be unsuccessful, it is unlikely to create a divide amongst the Australian public. The support for the indigenous team will be broad, with both indigenous Australians, and Australians of various other ethnicities all supporting the same team.

[bigred83]

seems to me like someone is having a whinge for the sake of it.
yes it may be a little unsavoury to use the charity idea to bait mundine, but how many big fights that get made DONT have some kind of angle/bait? thats the nature of the beast unfortunately.
and we all know if green was to just offer a rematch mundine would come up with some BS about how he already whipped danny and he has nothing to prove by doing it. thats just the nature of mundine unfortunately. as ive already mentioned on another thread if mundine fought top fighters most of australia would be behind him. always going to get some that wont like him(specially cos of the mouth) but thats life too, everyone cant always get along.

Finally, I had to laugh to myself. A poster mentioned that the money isn't even going to a charity of Mundines choice. The question I ask is - WHO THE fornicate made Anthony Mundine the doyen of distribution of charitable funds to the indigenous community? It seems a strange thing to presume.

nicely said top

The youth foundation in question doesn't even exist yet. He's proposing that a new foundation be set up in partnership between himself and Mundine. So it's not just a matter of capitalising on the indigenous youth thing once...but only doing it in a manner where he'll have his name on a foundation, and he will be able to capitalise on it forever.

pls correct me if im wrong, but wont mundines name be on the same charity forever as well???

as for the racial bit between the two of them theres never been a mention of it from anyones camp excpet for mundine, as he ALWAYS did while he was playing league, oh you wont pick me cos im aboriginal, that was crap and everyone knows it, he was just unlucky to have guys like brad fittler, laurie daley in front of him. unfortunately mundine is that whinging type of guy that will make excuse after excuse for something he didnt achieve(maybe thats y he was mates with RJJ while he was out here???)

IMO the only way mundine gets out of this with any dignity is by landing pavlik, or sturm, or sylvester, but i very much doubt he will go overseas and fight anyone with credibility

[madball1982]

Wow. A potential super-fight rematch in Aussie boxing has turned into a race war? I think some people look into these things WAY too much.
My thoughts are as follows - Green knows that Mundine will NOT take a rematch, despite any bravado in the past, ESPECIALLY at light-heavy or cruiser. He is playing on Mundine's generosity and loyalty to the disadvantaged indigenous youth with this announcement of the negotiations. Does this make him racist? No. Does it make him a smart, but slightly dirty negotiator? Yes. By playing on Mundine's heartstrings, it puts a bit more pressure on Mundine. It is an arguable low blow, but let's be honest, Mundine the boxer/showman/promotor has delivered plenty of low blows in the past, so it's about time a dirty tactic was employed against him.

As for the whole Green is a disgrace - I'd like to know where this is coming from. There has been nothing that Green, either as a boxer/promotor or person that I have ever heard that makes him a disgrace as a person. Same thing I will say with Mundine as a person also (as a boxer/promotor/big mouth/anytime a camera is on him - is a completely different story) I have never heard a bad thing said about his personality/actions while off-camera. To me this just seems to be personal prejudice against Green.

As for the whole charity argument - whether or not Green (or any other famous person) truly cares about the plight of the indigenous youth should not really be up for debate, it's still money that will be going somewhere to help. As for no plan being announced, I'm sure there will be advisors (as with any other established or non-established credible charity) to help that. It does raise awareness about certain issues when celebrities get involved and this comes from someone who generally despises celebrities using their stature regarding charities.

As for Green calling out Mundine, it's a shame it's come to this again. Obviously beating RJJ didn't open the doors to bigger fights like he expected it to.

[Tinnie]

seems to me like someone is having a whinge for the sake of it.
yes it may be a little unsavoury to use the charity idea to bait mundine, but how many big fights that get made DONT have some kind of angle/bait? thats the nature of the beast unfortunately.
and we all know if green was to just offer a rematch mundine would come up with some BS about how he already whipped danny and he has nothing to prove by doing it. thats just the nature of mundine unfortunately. as ive already mentioned on another thread if mundine fought top fighters most of australia would be behind him. always going to get some that wont like him(specially cos of the mouth) but thats life too, everyone cant always get along.

Finally, I had to laugh to myself. A poster mentioned that the money isn't even going to a charity of Mundines choice. The question I ask is - WHO THE fornicate made Anthony Mundine the doyen of distribution of charitable funds to the indigenous community? It seems a strange thing to presume.

nicely said top

The youth foundation in question doesn't even exist yet. He's proposing that a new foundation be set up in partnership between himself and Mundine. So it's not just a matter of capitalising on the indigenous youth thing once...but only doing it in a manner where he'll have his name on a foundation, and he will be able to capitalise on it forever.

pls correct me if im wrong, but wont mundines name be on the same charity forever as well???

as for the racial bit between the two of them theres never been a mention of it from anyones camp excpet for mundine, as he ALWAYS did while he was playing league, oh you wont pick me cos im aboriginal, that was crap and everyone knows it, he was just unlucky to have guys like brad fittler, laurie daley in front of him. unfortunately mundine is that whinging type of guy that will make excuse after excuse for something he didnt achieve(maybe thats y he was mates with RJJ while he was out here???)

IMO the only way mundine gets out of this with any dignity is by landing pavlik, or sturm, or sylvester, but i very much doubt he will go overseas and fight anyone with credibility

Spot on.

[Marlin]

As for Green calling out Mundine, it's a shame it's come to this again. Obviously beating RJJ didn't open the doors to bigger fights like he expected it to.

This is the biggest disappointment.

[toppity]

As for Green calling out Mundine, it's a shame it's come to this again. Obviously beating RJJ didn't open the doors to bigger fights like he expected it to.

This is the biggest disappointment.

agree

[Willem]

The youth foundation in question doesn't even exist yet. He's proposing that a new foundation be set up in partnership between himself and Mundine. So it's not just a matter of capitalising on the indigenous youth thing once...but only doing it in a manner where he'll have his name on a foundation, and he will be able to capitalise on it forever.

pls correct me if im wrong, but wont mundines name be on the same charity forever as well???

Yes. But it's not a particularly good offer to Mundine, who is not exactly in love with Danny Green, to have a jointly named charity. Danny appears to have made this decision without consulting Mundine.

as for the racial bit between the two of them theres never been a mention of it from anyones camp excpet for mundine, as he ALWAYS did while he was playing league, oh you wont pick me cos im aboriginal, that was crap and everyone knows it, he was just unlucky to have guys like brad fittler, laurie daley in front of him. unfortunately mundine is that whinging type of guy that will make excuse after excuse for something he didnt achieve(maybe thats y he was mates with RJJ while he was out here???)

Green does not overtly play the race card. There is very little open, out-stated racism in Australia today. There is still plenty of subtler racism though. Sure Danny doesn't muster support by invoking white pride...but he does muster support by invoking "Aussie" pride, which is an identity that excludes most of Australia's non-white populations.

Did anyone else notice the bullshit that they played on the big screen prior to the RJJ fight? Anzacs fighting actual war, risking their lives, juxtaposed with shots of Danny fighting in the right...yeah right Danny, you are totally comparable to those Australians who fought and died in Europe almost 100 years ago. And he's proposing that this fight take place on Anzac day? It appeals to a lot of people...but I call bullshit!

IMO the only way mundine gets out of this with any dignity is by landing pavlik, or sturm, or sylvester, but i very much doubt he will go overseas and fight anyone with credibility

Yeah, sadly I have to agree on this one. I'd love to see him go overseas and fight a top-ranked fighter, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

I really don't like Danny Green, mostly for the reasons that I've outlined in this thread. While people have said here that he seems to be a good bloke off camera, the limited experience that I've had with him off camera (at the Griffith presser) totally cemented him as a complete and utter tosser in my mind.

The main reason I don't want Mundine to take the fight is that after all Danny Green's shit-talking after the RJJ fight, I find it hilarious that he can't land a fight. I'd like to see him keeping on being unable to land a fight.

[toppity]

The youth foundation in question doesn't even exist yet. He's proposing that a new foundation be set up in partnership between himself and Mundine. So it's not just a matter of capitalising on the indigenous youth thing once...but only doing it in a manner where he'll have his name on a foundation, and he will be able to capitalise on it forever.

pls correct me if im wrong, but wont mundines name be on the same charity forever as well???

Yes. But it's not a particularly good offer to Mundine, who is not exactly in love with Danny Green, to have a jointly named charity. Danny appears to have made this decision without consulting Mundine.

as for the racial bit between the two of them theres never been a mention of it from anyones camp excpet for mundine, as he ALWAYS did while he was playing league, oh you wont pick me cos im aboriginal, that was crap and everyone knows it, he was just unlucky to have guys like brad fittler, laurie daley in front of him. unfortunately mundine is that whinging type of guy that will make excuse after excuse for something he didnt achieve(maybe thats y he was mates with RJJ while he was out here???)

Green does not overtly play the race card. There is very little open, out-stated racism in Australia today. There is still plenty of subtler racism though. Sure Danny doesn't muster support by invoking white pride...but he does muster support by invoking "Aussie" pride, which is an identity that excludes most of Australia's non-white populations.

Did anyone else notice the bullshit that they played on the big screen prior to the RJJ fight? Anzacs fighting actual war, risking their lives, juxtaposed with shots of Danny fighting in the right...yeah right Danny, you are totally comparable to those Australians who fought and died in Europe almost 100 years ago. And he's proposing that this fight take place on Anzac day? It appeals to a lot of people...but I call bullshit!

IMO the only way mundine gets out of this with any dignity is by landing pavlik, or sturm, or sylvester, but i very much doubt he will go overseas and fight anyone with credibility

Yeah, sadly I have to agree on this one. I'd love to see him go overseas and fight a top-ranked fighter, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

I really don't like Danny Green, mostly for the reasons that I've outlined in this thread. While people have said here that he seems to be a good bloke off camera, the limited experience that I've had with him off camera (at the Griffith presser) totally cemented him as a complete and utter tosser in my mind.

The main reason I don't want Mundine to take the fight is that after all Danny Green's poop-talking after the RJJ fight, I find it hilarious that he can't land a fight. I'd like to see him keeping on being unable to land a fight.

I'm glad you have admitted your bias openly, and highlighted the reasons for it. I'm biased towards Danny, though I try not to let it cloud my opinions. At the very least Danny has tried to land fight (including this one)........ what has Mundine done? The complete opposite. He has moved weight divisions to avoid fights.

[Marlin]

I'm sick of people trying to make out that Aussie pride is a bad thing, making a tribute to ANZACs is a bad thing.

If anyone else takes pride in thier country and their history it is patriotic, apparently when we do it it is racist

[Willem]

toppity:
Danny hasn't tried to land overly risky fights. Chad Dawson was interested, but Danny had "bigger fish to fry".
Some of the fights he was talking about following the RJJ win were nothing short of ridiculous...wouldn't have been surprised if he called out Ali next.

I gained a bit of respect for him after the Griffith presser when he was saying that he was bringing out the best fighters to Australia. I was pretty stoked to have the opportunity to see RJJ live. But according to the rules, he clearly cheated. I don't know whether RJJ would have won regardless, it seemed like he underestimated him too.

But then after the RJJ fight, with talk of Holyfield and such, it's just big names, not big fights. I'd love to see him take on Dawson. Partly because I'd like to see him lose, and I really think he would lose, but also because it'd be a great fight. He's not about to do that, and the offer was definitely there.

But yeah, you're right, he's definitely taken on tougher opponents than Mundine. Mundine should either start taking on quality opposition, or retire. He really doesn't look very powerful these days, doesn't seem like he'd be that competitive against someone like Pavlik.

Marlin:
I think you'll find that patriotism and nationalism tends to be deeply racist in most places.

[amwsnw]

Before anyone throws criticism at Green for putting up the 10% for under priviliged indigenous youth, have a look at what Green has done in the past for these communities.have a look at the communities he has visited, now compare it to Mundine. Dont start this crap about it being a low act to entice a fight. This is an act bhy a fighter who wants to donate the money and at the same time thinks it will have leverage in Mundine in the ring with him.
Green is a business man and a pro boxer, but if he wants to give some money to charity dont begrudge him.
And any comments on race, there was only one fighter who brought race into this rivalry and it was not danny.

[amwsnw]

toppity:
Danny hasn't tried to land overly risky fights. Chad Dawson was interested, but Danny had "bigger fish to fry".
Some of the fights he was talking about following the RJJ win were nothing short of ridiculous...wouldn't have been surprised if he called out Ali next.

I gained a bit of respect for him after the Griffith presser when he was saying that he was bringing out the best fighters to Australia. I was pretty stoked to have the opportunity to see RJJ live. But according to the rules, he clearly cheated. I don't know whether RJJ would have won regardless, it seemed like he underestimated him too.

But then after the RJJ fight, with talk of Holyfield and such, it's just big names, not big fights. I'd love to see him take on Dawson. Partly because I'd like to see him lose, and I really think he would lose, but also because it'd be a great fight. He's not about to do that, and the offer was definitely there.

But yeah, you're right, he's definitely taken on tougher opponents than Mundine. Mundine should either start taking on quality opposition, or retire. He really doesn't look very powerful these days, doesn't seem like he'd be that competitive against someone like Pavlik.

Marlin:
I think you'll find that patriotism and nationalism tends to be deeply racist in most places.

Has he definately cheated ?? Do we have a ruling on this yet ?? Green wanted Tarver etc because they are big names that attract not only the boxing fans but the public in general. dawson would be a great fight, I am not sure that GMP never approached Dawson's camp but I stand corrected....Tarver, Holyfield, Johnson etc ...... doesntly really stack up to Medley, Wood, Taylor etc...........I understand how some think danny would lose to Dawson, but I recall the majority thought RJJ would school Greeny as well. Now Green only won because he cheated and RJJ was too old. Every time Green wins, people willcome up with excuses without giving him credit. Will it be because Choc was too slow at a heavy weight, because he felt bloated, I can hear them already.

[Marlin]

I'm not sold on Dawson's chin, I reckon Danny could crack it.

[amwsnw]

Mate I agree. Dawson is a smooth mover and a good boxer but I would be confident for Danny in this one.

[madball1982]

I'm still puzzled at how parts of "the public" making Aussie Pride a racist thing is Green's fault? Green is invoking racist views?
As stated above, there's only one person in this conversation that brings race into it. Well, then again, if Green outright said white power he'd be labelled a racist, so lucky he didn't.....

Green, as with most boxers these days, is trying to make the biggest fights. That's not always going to be against the best fighters, but for him to bring them here - there needs to be the financial incentive to do so. Green vs Holyfield would bring more $$'s I'd assume then Green vs Dawson, as an example. B-Hop would've been great.
Unfortunately most of us don't see/hear the negotiations that do or don't occur with these big names/best fighters.
Has Mundine TRULY offered Pavlik, Sturm fights?
Has Green TRULY offered Dawson a fight?
We know that B-Hop and Green were in some stage/form of negotiation because of all the publicity it got and the quotes from B-Hop himself, after his initial rejection of the fight anyway. That one can be verified at least.
Both of these guys, deep down, realise they're never going to be a TRUE world champion (ie: holding multiple belts, beating the best of the best - this isn't an alphabet soup ridicule) and they're trying to get big $$ fights against big name opponents who they have a chance at beating.
The only difference between the two is that for the most part it seems Green is trying a little bit harder to get fighters more talented than what Mundine is.

[keyboard warrior]

Is Mundine even trying?

[Sweet P]

toppity:
Danny hasn't tried to land overly risky fights. Chad Dawson was interested, but Danny had "bigger fish to fry".
Some of the fights he was talking about following the RJJ win were nothing short of ridiculous...wouldn't have been surprised if he called out Ali next.

I gained a bit of respect for him after the Griffith presser when he was saying that he was bringing out the best fighters to Australia. I was pretty stoked to have the opportunity to see RJJ live. But according to the rules, he clearly cheated. I don't know whether RJJ would have won regardless, it seemed like he underestimated him too.

But then after the RJJ fight, with talk of Holyfield and such, it's just big names, not big fights. I'd love to see him take on Dawson. Partly because I'd like to see him lose, and I really think he would lose, but also because it'd be a great fight. He's not about to do that, and the offer was definitely there.

But yeah, you're right, he's definitely taken on tougher opponents than Mundine. Mundine should either start taking on quality opposition, or retire. He really doesn't look very powerful these days, doesn't seem like he'd be that competitive against someone like Pavlik.

Marlin:
I think you'll find that patriotism and nationalism tends to be deeply racist in most places.

Willem, You are quite Obviously a moron.

Why bring up the race card. Green is trying to help Aboriginal youth and you turn it around.

He also beat RJJ by KO. How exactly was it cheating. The wraps were inspected and passed.