BoxRec

WHY would anyone be dependent on "news" reports

when the films of the fight are so easily available?

granberry wrote:

raylawpc wrote:


GENE TUNNEY scored the fight for International News Services and wrote: "Nobody begrudges Jack Sharkey the championship but many would rather have seen him win it in a different manner."

That is hilarious.

Would Tunney have "rather have seen Schmeling win the title in a different manner"?

Probably, but two wrong don't make a right do they?

granberry wrote:WHY would anyone be dependent on "news" reports

when the films of the fight are so easily available?

(Remember that "Tommy Ryan" fight we "saw" last month, gran?)

raylawpc wrote:

Mr E wrote:

granberry wrote: Jack Sharkey scored the fight for Sharkey

with his perfectly timed left jab (timed to wreck Schmeling's intent to throw a heavy punch), occasional well placed rights to keep Schmeling from thinking he could get too aggressive, and controlling the distance at every moment so that Schmeling was just inches to far out of range to throw what he was so eager to.

Sharkey pitched a masterpiece that night.

Schmeling was in top condition, eager to defend his title and was totally stymied.

granberry, did you mean to write "Jack DEMPSEY scored the fight for Sharkey" ? I think I read that somewhere.

ray, I've seen a list like you put together somewhere before and Tracy Callis of IBRO once sent me a list of guys who scored it for Sharkey. I haven't seen the whole fight so I can't tell you how I scored it but I did think Sharkey had the upper hand in the portions I HAVE seen.

The six guys were quoted in an AP report I have in my Sharkey-Schmeling file, and the seventh was the AP reporter. The remainder I found on my own through newspaperarchive.com. I have yet to see a single news report from ringside that gave the verdict to Sharkey - although I do not question that Tracy found some. Do you have his list handy, and can you name some of those sportswriters who gave it to Sharkey?

My memory is a little dim on that but I'll ask him and report back.

granberry wrote:WHY would anyone be dependent on "news" reports

when the films of the fight are so easily available?

That's a fair point, actually. In my defense, back before I had and kids and I had a lot more tim to watch fight films, I couldn't get my hands on the whole thing. My local library had a super 8mm copy that included about 7-9 rounds of it but not the whole thing. I gather it's readily availalbe now though.

On the Tommy Ryan-Hugo Kelly thread I wrote:

"Kelly had an odd stance, leaning away in a manner similar to the stance Georges Carpentier used against Frank Klaus in a fight early in Carpentier's career."

It turned out it was the film of Carpentier fighting Klaus, in a very fuzzy state.

Thanks for calling attention to my expertise in boxing stances, the absolute fundamental of the subject.

Mr E wrote:

granberry wrote:WHY would anyone be dependent on "news" reports

when the films of the fight are so easily available?

That's a fair point, actually. In my defense, back before I had and kids and I had a lot more tim to watch fight films, I couldn't get my hands on the whole thing. My local library had a super 8mm copy that included about 7-9 rounds of it but not the whole thing. I gather it's readily availalbe now though.

Mr. E,

My comment was directed at raylawc, not you.

granberry wrote: Jack Sharkey scored the fight for Sharkey

Why does that not surprise me?

...Referee Gunboat Smith was a personal friend of Jack Sharkey. Schmeling didn't protest and said, that the fight would be decided by the fists and the better man gets the descision. That was prior to the fight and sadly he was wrong.

Friedie wrote:

granberry wrote: Jack Sharkey scored the fight for Sharkey

Why does that not surprise me?

...Referee Gunboat Smith was a personal friend of Jack Sharkey. Schmeling didn't protest and said, that the fight would be decided by the fists and the better man gets the descision. That was prior to the fight and sadly he was wrong.

Friedie LIES by omission.

Here is what I wrote:

Jack Sharkey scored the fight for Sharkey

with his perfectly timed left jab (timed to wreck Schmeling's intent to throw a heavy punch), occasional well placed rights to keep Schmeling from thinking he could get too aggressive, and controlling the distance at every moment so that Schmeling was just inches to far out of range to throw what he was so eager to.

Sharkey pitched a masterpiece that night.

Schmeling was in top condition, eager to defend his title and was totally stymied.

You OMITTED just a little bit of what I wrote,

didn't you, Friedie.

And then you make up a bald faced lie you have no support for:

"Referee Gunboat Smith was a personal friend of Jack Sharkey."

You don't have a shred of proof of that, BECAUSE YOU MADE IT UP.

Gunboat Smith is quoted in detail on that fight and Sharkey and Schmeling in IN THIS CORNER.

His comments show you are making up raw falsehoods.

What about liston.

Sonny is third in the 35-59 era.

granberry wrote: And then you make up a bald faced lie you have no support for:
"Referee Gunboat Smith was a personal friend of Jack Sharkey."
You don't have a shred of proof of that, BECAUSE YOU MADE IT UP.
Gunboat Smith is quoted in detail on that fight and Sharkey and Schmeling in IN THIS CORNER.
His comments show you are making up raw falsehoods.

No, I didn't make that up at all. I read it in "Max Schmeling: An Autobiography" and some other sources as well! Question is now whom to believe more I guess. Gunboat Smith or Max Schmeling? For my part I believe Max Schmeling more.

Wouldn't it be better to ask someone about his sources before calling him a liar? Your emotional response is remarkable (like I stired up a hornets nest)!


EDIT: Just found another source on the net (and a proof that I didn't make up anything):

http://books.google.de/books?id=ExgnPew ... q=&f=false

Schmeling is your "source."

LOL

The Ring of Hate is a 2005 book written by someone who has no background in boxing.

See Peter Heller's IN THIS CORNER for Gunboat Smith's comments on the fight. He says Schmeling won four rounds out of 15--which is correct.

Schmeling was totally frustrated by Sharkey's boxing ability and fight plan.

granberry wrote:Schmeling is your "source."

LOL

Gunboat Smith is your "source."

LOL

granberry wrote:The Ring of Hate is a 2005 book written by someone who has no background in boxing.

See Peter Heller's IN THIS CORNER for Gunboat Smith's comments on the fight. He says Schmeling won four rounds out of 15--which is correct.

Schmeling was totally frustrated by Sharkey's boxing ability and fight plan.

I think we can stop the discussion here. You have your opinion and I have mine. And I go with Gene Tunney here "The verdict was a scandal and a very bad thing for boxing". The vast majority of the U.S. (!) - Reporters voted for Max.

Friedie wrote:

granberry wrote:The Ring of Hate is a 2005 book written by someone who has no background in boxing.

See Peter Heller's IN THIS CORNER for Gunboat Smith's comments on the fight. He says Schmeling won four rounds out of 15--which is correct.

Schmeling was totally frustrated by Sharkey's boxing ability and fight plan.

I think we can stop the discussion here. You have your opinion and I have mine. And I go with Gene Tunney here "The verdict was a scandal and a very bad thing for boxing". The vast majority of the U.S. (!) - Reporters voted for Max.

I have seen two sets of poll numbers. Both had ringside correspondents voting for Schmeling by something like a 2 to 1 margin. Nat Fleischer, in a book he co-authored with Sam Andre, said that he believed Schmeling won the fight.

Friedie wrote:

granberry wrote:Schmeling is your "source."

LOL

Gunboat Smith is your "source."

LOL

You are very wrong, Friedie.

My source is the film of the fight.

I don't need anyone else to tell me what I see.

As I have said more than once on this very thread

WHY would anyone need a "news" report on a fight when it is available for them to see with their own eyes?

The total dependence on "quoting" others is the hallmark of the clueless when it comes to boxing.

Sharkey gave Schmeling a boxing lesson. It is there for all to see.

At least for those who know what boxing is.

granberry, by that very logic we should not take heed in what you just wrote, but dig up the fight, watch it ourselves and then quietly reflect on the truth of the matter. However good boxing enthusiasts (yourself included?) SHOULD be able to offer up a coherent readable and credible review. I assume that's what you just did when you shared your opinion.


Now don't get mad at me, I'm just making an observation, and attempting to point out that SOME writers can be counted upon to give a good account.

So Francis believes we can totally ignore what the great Gene Tunney had to say on boxing, yet we should swallow hook line and sinker anything the great Curtis Cokes had to say on boxing.

Makes no sense to me.

BoxBuzz wrote:granberry, by that very logic we should not take heed in what you just wrote, but dig up the fight, watch it ourselves and then quietly reflect on the truth of the matter. However good boxing enthusiasts (yourself included?) SHOULD be able to offer up a coherent readable and credible review. I assume that's what you just did when you shared your opinion.


Now don't get mad at me, I'm just making an observation, and attempting to point out that SOME writers can be counted upon to give a good account.

I've seen the fight, Schmeling got hosed. Alas, disagreeing with Granberry means I know nothing. I must say 11-4 Sharkey is quite possibly the worst scorecard I've ever heard.

granberry wrote:

Friedie wrote:

granberry wrote:Schmeling is your "source."

LOL

Gunboat Smith is your "source."

LOL

You are very wrong, Friedie.

My source is the film of the fight.

I don't need anyone else to tell me what I see.

As I have said more than once on this very thread

WHY would anyone need a "news" report on a fight when it is available for them to see with their own eyes?

The total dependence on "quoting" others is the hallmark of the clueless when it comes to boxing.

Sharkey gave Schmeling a boxing lesson. It is there for all to see.

At least for those who know what boxing is.

The quoting was to proof or not if Gunboat Smiths had a friendship with Sharkey. You called me a liar and that I made that thing up myself so I gave you sources that are much older than myself. If they are reliable, that is another question - I think they are, you don't and that's okay for me.

And for the fight itself, YES, the film is the best source indeed and like I wrote before in this thread I have it at home and watched it several times. And if you will watch it again please don't wear that Sharkey-biased glasses anymore.

Sharkey gave Schmeling a boxing lesson? Sorry, but that's so ridiculous.

Now Friedie is telling me what to see when I watch the fight.

LOL

Where have I heard that kind of crap before?

granberry wrote:Now Friedie is telling me what to see when I watch the fight.

I'm not sure anymore if we talk about the same fight...

granberry wrote:Jack Johnson did not look good against Marvin Hart.

Do you have footage of this fight?