Haye didnt show anything to worry the Klit Brothers

[Nightmare Roy]

Haye showed power - but everyone knows he is a banger.

Apart from that = Ruiz showed Haye is no-where near as fast as he thinks he is.

He run out of ideas - couldnt do much with Ruiz for much of the fight.

He couldnt land on Ruiz for much of the fight.

Carrys that left hand way too low - Ruiz actually clipped Haye in the early rounds (maybe 2nd) and he stumbled back and only the ropes kept him up.

He was blowing - his stamnia is poor.

Basically - Roy Jones clowned and schooled a prime Ruiz.

Haye was a bit struggling to master a old Ruiz.

I dont see how anyone can say that Haye was convincing enough to fancy him to beat any of the Kiltishcko brothers.

That first Punch would have knocked Wlad out for a good minute. FACT.

apart from the fact that it would have hit wladimir on the neck, klitschko is a different kettle of fish to anything haye has had to deal with, klitschkos jabs will trouble haye. klitschko has the power to hurt haye.....badly

He does have the power to hurt Haye no doubt, but knowing his chin capabilities or lack of, and Hayes power he may not be too confident, thats what makes this fight so exciting, they could both win and thats the kind of fight we need to see in the HW decision.

[crusader]

If the Klit's are smart they will match Vitali with Haye because he has a great chin and would not be likely to fold if Haye lands some good shots. He also has a tremendous work rate which would really make Haye expend a lot of energy keeping him off and Haye's stamina is still suspect. I would favor Vitali clearly over Haye, but with Wlad it is 50/50.

If I were Haye I would be gunning only for Wlad (while talking about how I would destroy both of them), or try to wait it out and see if Vitali starts to show his age.

[Nightmare Roy]

If the Klit's are smart they will match Vitali with Haye because he has a great chin and would not be likely to fold if Haye lands some good shots. He also has a tremendous work rate which would really make Haye expend a lot of energy keeping him off and Haye's stamina is still suspect. I would favor Vitali clearly over Haye, but with Wlad it is 50/50.

If I were Haye I would be gunning only for Wlad (while talking about how I would destroy both of them), or try to wait it out and see if Vitali starts to show his age.

Agreed 100% Go for Wlad have a fair chance of winning it, if he does, then it's a monster pay day against the vengeful older brother, damn i should be a promoter! DD

[greg]

What I would do if I were Haye? I would stay away from both brothers...actually this is something he's been doing all along...

[rob12344]

Wlad would obviously be the easier fight. haye knows this too, so don't expect him to be gunning for Vitali. Although, he also must know that beating Vitali is the only way to truly become the number one heavyweight in the world entirely.

As for the fight with Wlad, I think the Klitschko jab would be a huge problem for Haye. Haye has a good jab himself, but in a jabbing contest, he woun't be able to touch Wlad. And that Wladdy jab carries pop in it. It might actually be a power punch to Haye. Haye has a 73 inch reach. Wlad has an 81 inch reach. Wlad is 3 inches taller. The jab is going to be a huge problem for Haye and Wlad will be fighting cautiously too. And what do you think will happen if Wlad lands a solid right hand on Haye? One the lfip side, Haye is going to be fast and will be trying to land a big one on Wlad. I just don't see how he can get past the jab though. He is going to have to come out with all guns blazing and fire away and be very aggressive with the one twos. However, Wlad will expect this and might be thinking to himself, "I'll land my own right hand in the first round and keep him honest".

As for Vitali, there would genuinely be no way Haye would get past the jab and it would be a Herbie Hide performance.

I think Haye has genuine chances against anyone else in the division but his chin has a made in china label attached to it so there is always the danger that he could get bombed out.

[McCannW14]

Haye showed power - but everyone knows he is a banger.

Apart from that = Ruiz showed Haye is no-where near as fast as he thinks he is.

He run out of ideas - couldnt do much with Ruiz for much of the fight.

He couldnt land on Ruiz for much of the fight.

Carrys that left hand way too low - Ruiz actually clipped Haye in the early rounds (maybe 2nd) and he stumbled back and only the ropes kept him up.

He was blowing - his stamnia is poor.

Basically - Roy Jones clowned and schooled a prime Ruiz.

Haye was a bit struggling to master a old Ruiz.

I dont see how anyone can say that Haye was convincing enough to fancy him to beat any of the Kiltishcko brothers.

Haye is a banger, one of the best punchers in the division, but for me he has regressed since putting on so much weight and muscle.

I think he was a better, much sharper fighter when he wasnt so heavy and musclebound.

Now he gets tired easily, throws one shot at a time, and loads up far too often.

I would suggest he drops a bit of muscle and drops down to no more than 208 - 210. Surely he can be comfortable at that weight, retain his power (poss increase it) and throw more shots whilst improving his stamina.

Another thing with overly muscle bound fighters is they seem to seize up a bit when on the back foot.

Haye has the potential to be the best, but he needs to trim down a bit.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Haye showed power - but everyone knows he is a banger.

Apart from that = Ruiz showed Haye is no-where near as fast as he thinks he is.

He run out of ideas - couldnt do much with Ruiz for much of the fight.

He couldnt land on Ruiz for much of the fight.

Carrys that left hand way too low - Ruiz actually clipped Haye in the early rounds (maybe 2nd) and he stumbled back and only the ropes kept him up.

He was blowing - his stamnia is poor.

Basically - Roy Jones clowned and schooled a prime Ruiz.

Haye was a bit struggling to master a old Ruiz.

I dont see how anyone can say that Haye was convincing enough to fancy him to beat any of the Kiltishcko brothers.

Haye is a banger, one of the best punchers in the division, but for me he has regressed since putting on so much weight and muscle.

I think he was a better, much sharper fighter when he wasnt so heavy and musclebound.

Now he gets tired easily, throws one shot at a time, and loads up far too often.

I would suggest he drops a bit of muscle and drops down to no more than 208 - 210. Surely he can be comfortable at that weight, retain his power (poss increase it) and throw more shots whilst improving his stamina.

Another thing with overly muscle bound fighters is they seem to seize up a bit when on the back foot.

Haye has the potential to be the best, but he needs to trim down a bit.

Yeah - I agree - Haye has regressed.

There is alot of wishful thinking going on in this thread - saying if Haye had landed that 1st bomb on anyone but Ruiz they would be gone.

Boxing just dosent work like that - and no it is not a FACT - if Haye had landed that bomb on Wlad he would be out.

Haye said if he threw the bombs he threw at Ruiz on the Klit brothers he would knock them out. Very optmstic thinking.

However - the Klit brothers are alot more offensively dynamic than Ruiz - and that shot that Wlad put Chagev down with would most likely take Haye clean out.............FACT

Haye has regressed...............

He is fat - overweight

He is not even that fast as against World class - sure he looked like lightening against Maccarenelli and Valuev

But now he has lumped on a bit of weight - and is up in class - he is not so fast now.

Haye looked sloppy and dare I say it.................one dimnesional

I am not sure he has been training with the same intensity since he became a regualr on the Celeb Circuit

Either way - I dont expect him to beat the Klit brothers - but should be fun to see him try

[doctorboxing]

[
He is fat - overweight

Yep, I would hate to be as fat as Haye, the out of shape bastard.

I bet my wife is glad she gets me in bed at night and not that slob.

[sharpei_louis]

Some plain hate on here - Haye fat? I agree that maybe he has a little more muscle on him now than he should have, prime at 15st 7 not 15st12 IMO. But what's half a stone of muscle?!?

Haye by his own admission didn't have the best performance but he despite this ridiculous thread title he certainly showed that he has more than enough speed and power to trouble Wlad.
And 'Haye's chin has a china label attached' - I am yet to be convinced of that. Certainly if Wlad comes out thinking he will try to tag Haye with a big right before he gets landed on himself I'll be amazed. One thing Wlad isn't is 'offensively dynamic', he's made his career out of protecting his own glass chin using his undoubtedly huge physical advantages. If Wlad had been offensively dynamic he'd be a great champion; he isn't. Haye, for all his flaws in the chin/stamina department, has shown himself willing to take any fight. Fair enough he may have avoided the Klits to get a better negotiating tool, but there is no chance he will avoid taking Wlad on on better terms now he is established. He has proven himself to be far more gung-ho in terms of confidence, matchmaking and tactics than Wlad will ever be. You guys Wlad-hugging better hope Haye wins for the good of boxing.

Vitali is a different kettle of fish, he trusts his chin so he can get involved in a fight, and I'd back him to beat Haye middle rounds.

[nh1]

I've pasted a piece from ESB below highlighting issues with Haye's stamina.

It was very noticeable how much Haye was blowing in the early rounds...Worrying, no?


" 'Left-Hook Lounge': Vivek Wallace's Mailbag feat. Haye, Hopkins/Jones, Froch/Kessler, Campbell, and more!
Chris W. (Pompano Beach, Fl): I noticed your commentary on your Facebook page after the weekend fights and I wanted to know if you could clarify your position on David Haye. What are your thoughts about him in the aftermath of his victory over John Ruiz?

Vivek W. (ESB): No question, my thoughts at this time no longer parallel the initial thoughts I felt about Haye, but in my humble observation it's all well within good reason. When Haye first arrived, his ever-pouring words and budding mystique made many think that he would be that transcending figure to not only take himself, but the lackluster heavyweight division, and the sport in general to a new level. The more I see him now, the more I become acutely aware that like many, I just no longer see it happening. Truthfully, I really view him to be a somewhat stagnant fighter at this point. One might wonder how I could reach such a conclusion with him racking up victories, but every single fight I see his veil of invincibility slowly fading, and it all starts with one thing in particular. That thing is his extremely poor conditioning (as evidenced in the very heavy breathing after only the 2nd round)..

Corner shots at one point focused sharply on his belly puffing in and out rapidly in a scene highly reminiscent of the effect you get when you suck the air in and out of a balloon for fun. What was sad was that this was only about the 4th round. One of the biggest reasons Haye was once able to intimidate opposition was the bulging figure he has, but every time I see him it reminds me of some of the ball players back in high school who didn't have the dedication to body build the proper way, so they scarfed down tons of high-calorie protein shakes without putting in the work and ended up with great mass, yet very little firmness to tone their core structure. From a conditioning standpoint, Haye needs to be completely barred from the weight room, for good, and placed strictly on an endurance based regimen. At this point, his power will no longer increase, so there needs to be more of an emphasis on his fluidity and muscle range.

Truth be known, that same abundance of power is what has him lacking conditioning, because he is so accustomed to getting opponents out of there so fast that he isn't able to get the rounds necessary to gain the late fight experience. This reality shows me that the first time he faces someone with enough of a chin to take his shots, enough power to keep him honest, and enough heart to let him know up front that they won't back down, it could be a quick 'game over'. Arreola (based on chin, workrate, and power), Chambers (who lasted 12 rounds with a much more powerful Wladimir and has a solid defense), Povetkin (who has solid fundamentals), and even a David Tua would all wear him down, a few even stop him late. Defeating either of the K-Bros at this point in my book is not even a remote possibility, as one will no longer be around to face him after a while, and the other would use that long jab to soften him up and stop him well inside of 7. Call me crazy, but there are many of us out there, as evidenced by the emails I keep receiving. "

[m1kee50]

if 7lbs is 7lbs more than you need, then lose it...

Haye weighed call it 220 lbs for the last fight... walking at 5mph burns 160 calories per mile at 220, 145 per mile at 200... less weight, less energy needed.

[sharpei_louis]

Well if people have been emailing it then it's true.

Haye looked like he was breathing heavy every round, but I didn't notice any discernible drop in his output other than natural progression through the fight. He was going strong come the 9th. And what veil of invincibility is he banging on about? Haye and his camp have never ever insinuated he is invincible. His usp is quite obviously that he has a chance of getting stopped himself, hence excitement... that's how he sold himself, not on being invincible.

And my god, why are we questioning weight Haye needs to lose then talking up Tua and Arreola? Hypocrites.

[m1kee50]

Well if people have been emailing it then it's true.

Haye looked like he was breathing heavy every round, but I didn't notice any discernible drop in his output other than natural progression through the fight. He was going strong come the 9th. And what veil of invincibility is he banging on about? Haye and his camp have never ever insinuated he is invincible. His usp is quite obviously that he has a chance of getting stopped himself, hence excitement... that's how he sold himself, not on being invincible.

And my god, why are we questioning weight Haye needs to lose then talking up Tua and Arreola? Hypocrites.

thats a bit strong... Tua and Arreola are fat useless lumps, but they dont sell themselves as 'speed kills' fighters...

if Haye wants to fight the Klits then he needs that speed, we have seen his power has carried up, but he will need more stamina because he will need to fight differently

[FLINT ISLAND]

Ok fat is a bit too strong a word

But he was a bit "fleshy"

And so far as a heavyweight he has beaten no-one who can be considered a live fighter like Vitali or Wlad.

Wlad is far more offensively dynmanic than Ruiz - he is a powerful guy - even if he is defensively minded when he does throw shots Haye is gonna have alot more to worry about than he did againt Ruiz - that was my point.

[m1kee50]

I disagree with that, I think Wlad will try to fight Haye in basically a superior but similar fashion to Haye fighting Ruiz... Wlad won't chase down Haye, he will bring him onto his punches like Haye did to Ruiz... Haye will need to move a lot more in this next fight, his stamina will have to be excellent because for all the knocks at Wlad he is ALWAYS in shape.

Vitali will also let Haye come to him, being that much taller he will try to break up Haye with the jab before Haye gets in range himself.

[dr_devious]

I cant believe all this negativity after Saturday's result. Only one person has ever stopped Ruiz before and that was nearly 15 years ago. The guy is rock hard and took punches that would have cleaned out most other heavyweights. Haye was far too fast and powerful for him. He's by far the best offensively in the division. I agree with the bit about his stamina, he looked surprisingly perturbed even though he was winning easily. I think he will KO Wlad, but Vitali will be a different propositon.

[Finn]

I cant believe all this negativity after Saturday's result. Only one person has ever stopped Ruiz before and that was nearly 15 years ago. The guy is rock hard and took punches that would have cleaned out most other heavyweights. Haye was far too fast and powerful for him. He's by far the best offensively in the division. I agree with the bit about his stamina, he looked surprisingly perturbed even though he was winning easily. I think he will KO Wlad, but Vitali will be a different propositon.

the stamina will come in the gym, he's packed on the extra muscle and now he needs to get used to it.

[nobby_nobbins]

I'm impressed by Haye's ability to follow a gameplan carefully tailored for each opponent. I think his new, smarter style means he won't always be as exciting as he once was, but he'll be harder to beat. I was also impressed by his punch resistance. He took some decent clips from Ruiz and kept his composure. I make him favourite against Wlad and give him a chance against Vitali.

[iwz678]

Haye was boxing lovely and was hitting with power, that's what you want from an heavyweight isnt it? Ok Ruiz did get through with some punches but Ruiz is a good fighter and I dont think he had Haye in trouble.

Haye is just great entertainment, he's absolutley fantastic for British Boxing because he gives us something different from the other two world champions and I would be very confident of Adam Booth getting a good gameplan for either of the Klitschko's and Haye executing it perfectly.

[Autobarn]

imagine the moaning if haye didn't drop ruiz several times and score a stoppage/corner retirement.

it was an effective performance, the speed and suddenness of his punches was too much for a plodding heavyweight. haye didn't exactly look like a ballerina in there, but his movement ensured that ruiz was frustrated and hitting air most of the night. ruiz was unable to do his patented mauling, which has troubled so many strong fighters - i think we should credit haye for this.

haye clearly wasn't in the shape he was in for the valuev fight, but he smashed up an opponent of similar level (many feel ruiz beat valuev at least once from their 2 fights) albeit with a more suitable size/style.

[Counter-puncher]

what pleased me about Haye:

how quickly he delivered his shots. never seen him in the flesh before and his speed, even though i expected it, impressed me.

what i thought was less good:

he definitely should have worked the body more. his right hand uppercut to the body is an absolute sickener and with Ruiz often getting into a shell he was crying out for more bodyshots, which Haye seldom threw.

I HATE it when he loads up on that right hand and wings it from wide. ugh, nasty, horrible, wide, telegraphed thing, he throws. he's much, much more effective when he throws shots from the shoulder.

his footwork worries me a bit. he seems to think he is Dirrell, or can move in the same way a very fast 170lber can move. he gets caught with his feet crossed up or too close together when trying to improvise escapes off the ropes.

i am still not convinced re Haye vs Wlad, I saw enough on Saturday night to encourage me, but also I saw a few things that made me think Haye could spend round after round being broken up by Wlad's jab.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Haye TKO 9 Ruiz

In itself is a good result.

I think just because it was a good performance form Haye though - dont think it was good enough to beat the Klitschko brothers.

[rhino222]

Haye showed power - but everyone knows he is a banger.

Apart from that = Ruiz showed Haye is no-where near as fast as he thinks he is.

He run out of ideas - couldnt do much with Ruiz for much of the fight.

He couldnt land on Ruiz for much of the fight.

Carrys that left hand way too low - Ruiz actually clipped Haye in the early rounds (maybe 2nd) and he stumbled back and only the ropes kept him up.

He was blowing - his stamnia is poor.

Basically - Roy Jones clowned and schooled a prime Ruiz.

Haye was a bit struggling to master a old Ruiz.

I dont see how anyone can say that Haye was convincing enough to fancy him to beat any of the Kiltishcko brothers.

I really wanted to be impressed by Haye lastnight. After his Valuev showing last time .. well lets just say the Hayemaker t-shirt as been pushed to the back of the wardrobe..

The thing is. Ruiz was the perfect opponent for Haye to look good against. Ruiz walked in straight lines towards Haye with his hands quite low also..

Yes, Haye is a very good puncher

But at heavyweight he is now a very much safety minded counter-puncher. He was able to get away with this so far because Valuev was slower than you could ever imagine .. and as said, Ruiz was just made for him

I can understand some people claiming Haye would beat one or both of the K-Brothers .. thats just called blind patriotism.

Both K-Brothers would make haye come to them. They have the reach and jab to score enough if he tries to do the same tactics as he did against Valuev .. and if he tried to take it to any of them ... he gets mullered :(

you are completely correct, and like yourself, im a big haye fan.

and whoever said that the first right hand would have dropped wladimir for the count !!!! what a load of nonsense, its like saying the punch that wayne alexander KO'd takaloo with would have taken out marvin hagler !! .... its a ridiculous statement.

[Twinkle Toes]

I personally don't fancy Hayes chances against either Klitschko, but Wladimir is the better option.

One thing Haye can do, is adapt and do something a little different. I don't see that in either Klitschko, we all know what they bring to the table each time they fight and they never disappoint.

Its juvenile to think that Haye hasn't got a punchers chance, and for me he would need to stop both fighters to get the win. I suspect he doesn't have the stamina to last out 12 rounds with a big heavy's such as these two, but he certainly has the speed to hit both of them, and hard.

[MrBoxingUK2]

Haye showed power - but everyone knows he is a banger.

Apart from that = Ruiz showed Haye is no-where near as fast as he thinks he is.

He run out of ideas - couldnt do much with Ruiz for much of the fight.

He couldnt land on Ruiz for much of the fight.

Carrys that left hand way too low - Ruiz actually clipped Haye in the early rounds (maybe 2nd) and he stumbled back and only the ropes kept him up.

He was blowing - his stamnia is poor.

Basically - Roy Jones clowned and schooled a prime Ruiz.

Haye was a bit struggling to master a old Ruiz.

I dont see how anyone can say that Haye was convincing enough to fancy him to beat any of the Kiltishcko brothers.

7 Did you let Enzo out of your shed for Easter?


quote]


classic mate