BoxRec

Ambling Alp wrote:Soose should not be in the Hall of Fame, but there are worse. At least he beat Ken Overlin twice and Tony Zale.

I can't believe some of the guys who have been mentioned. Ken Norton, Victor Galindez, Flash Elorde? They are more deserving than at least 50 guys who are in.

My three are:

George Godfrey
Jess Willard
Sixto Escobar

The case for Daniel Zaragoza is almost as weak.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He wasn't knocked out by saddler it was stopped on cuts after Sandy put on one of the dirtiest displays of fouling you would ever want to see. The ref should have been brought up on criminal charges.

Senya13 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He wasn't knocked out by saddler it was stopped on cuts after Sandy put on one of the dirtiest displays of fouling you would ever want to see. The ref should have been brought up on criminal charges.

What was so dirty or criminal about it? The cut was created by a punch. Infighting can be dirty, but there's nothing criminal about it, it wasn't of Holyfield's caliber. Did Saddler really rub his glove against the cut in one of the rounds, when they were in a clinch? Nobody can tell.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:Soose should not be in the Hall of Fame, but there are worse. At least he beat Ken Overlin twice and Tony Zale.

I can't believe some of the guys who have been mentioned. Ken Norton, Victor Galindez, Flash Elorde? They are more deserving than at least 50 guys who are in.

My three are:

George Godfrey
Jess Willard
Sixto Escobar

The case for Daniel Zaragoza is almost as weak.

I agree with most of your post, but Escobar is harsh, brojam.

Senya13 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He wasn't knocked out by saddler it was stopped on cuts after Sandy put on one of the dirtiest displays of fouling you would ever want to see. The ref should have been brought up on criminal charges.

What was so dirty or criminal about it? The cut was created by a punch. Infighting can be dirty, but there's nothing criminal about it, it wasn't of Holyfield's caliber. Did Saddler really rub his glove against the cut in one of the rounds, when they were in a clinch? Nobody can tell.

Ambling Alp wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:Soose should not be in the Hall of Fame, but there are worse. At least he beat Ken Overlin twice and Tony Zale.

I can't believe some of the guys who have been mentioned. Ken Norton, Victor Galindez, Flash Elorde? They are more deserving than at least 50 guys who are in.

My three are:

George Godfrey
Jess Willard
Sixto Escobar

The case for Daniel Zaragoza is almost as weak.

I agree with most of your post, but Escobar is harsh, brojam.

What case could you make for him?

Senya13 wrote:I can only guess he has seen a lot of Saddler's fights (far more than have been preserved on video) or has read a lot of reports to be able to claim this bout stood out, in regards to dirty fighting.
The thing is, as I already said, the cut was made by a legal punch (right hook I recall). The referee didn't deduct any points from Saddler either. You see a lot of cuts from headbutts, does that mean they are even more criminal and dirty?

Senya13 wrote:I agree that Saddler was pretty dirty (his height, stance and usual manner of fighting combined doing this), just I haven't read about this particular bout standing out regarding dirty fighting. Although I only saw a couple of next-day clippings about it myself.

1. Sandy Saddler TKO13 Flash Elorde -- San Francisco, Jan. 18, 1956

Bettmann/CorbisSandy Saddler used a variety of dirty tactics to stop Flash Elorde, facing, in their rematch.

We touched on this fight in the recent "Filipino five" article. Referee Ray Flores allowed featherweight champion Saddler to get away with numerous fouls in his title defense against Filipino Elorde. These included using his head and glove laces to worsen the terrible cut over Elorde's left eye that eventually caused the fight to be stopped. The New York Times reported: "The champion continually massaged Elorde's face with his head whenever they were in the clinches. He spun Elorde, held him, hit him on the break a couple of times and in general had the pro-Elorde crowd booing all night." Nat Fleischer, editor of "The Ring," wrote a blistering condemnation of Flores' refereeing. If ever a champion deserved to have been DQ'd, it was surely Sandy Saddler on that bloody night in San Francisco.
Graham Houston is the American editor of Boxing Monthly and writes for FightWriter.com

milmascaras1 wrote:obviously somebody doesn't know anything about boxing by picking victor galindez and pipino cuevas. cuevas' overall record might not have been the best but while he was welterweight champion, he was one of the most feared punchers in his era. victor galindez was also a great lt. heavyweight who was tough as nails and fought the best. nice try!