BoxRec

Nile4000 wrote:George Foreman, most definitely. Even Cosby was wary of him in Let's Do It Again.

Cosby wasn't wary. He's an actor. He knew they weren't going to box.. Jimmy Young was wary.. But also very confident he would kick the big man's ass... When it came to who could put who on the canvas??? The feather hitter decked the supposed ATG puncher.

Kalan wrote:

Nile4000 wrote:George Foreman, most definitely. Even Cosby was wary of him in Let's Do It Again.

Cosby wasn't wary. He's an actor. He knew they weren't going to box.. Jimmy Young was wary.. But also very confident he would kick the big man's ass... When it came to who could put who on the canvas??? The feather hitter decked the supposed ATG puncher.

True that, though I don't know if Jimmy could have done that to the 1973-1974 pre-Ali version.

Yeah... But there's all different versions of a boxer. A little different version every time he steps into the ring. But at 28 or 29 a boxer should still be getting better and not worse. He should be prepared for the opponent in front of him. In this case Jimmy Young was ready and psyched to the gills -- where he generally didn't look as ready. Foreman was at his very best for the first Frazier fight. He looked super confident, ripped, and ready as fuk. He wasn't every time out.

Those guys looked great is some fights and not too terrific in others... The thing with Joshua is, he's been pretty damned consistently in great shape.

Kalan wrote:Yeah... But there's all different versions of a boxer. A little different version every time he steps into the ring. But at 28 or 29 a boxer should still be getting better and not worse. He should be prepared for the opponent in front of him. In this case Jimmy Young was ready and psyched to the gills -- where he generally didn't look as ready. Foreman was at his very best for the first Frazier fight. He looked super confident, ripped, and ready as fuk. He wasn't every time out.

Those guys looked great is some fights and not too terrific in others... The thing with Joshua is, he's been pretty damned consistently in great shape.

Cmon, wrap a rubber band around your head and snap out of it. Jimmy Young just wore Foreman down so bad that YOU could have knocked him down. Hard to say that it was Jimmy's power that did it....it was George wasting so much energy chasing him. You seem to be discounting some facts. All the credit to Jimmy, whom I was happy to see win, but he hardly overpowered him.

dempseyfire wrote:For one punch power I go with Baer. For pure 'hurt' and hardness of a shot I go with Foreman.

Controversial wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Speed is certainly part of the equation. However Ali and Patterson had great speed and not that kind of power. Strength, accuracy, and technique plays a huge role. And some of it is natural ability. Look at what Foreman did against Frazier, Norton (please no BS about him not having a good chin) and Lyle. Tyson nor anyone else matches that.

Of course Foreman could punch and I think he was physically stronger than Tyson, I just think Tyson was a more dangerous puncher as he had speed and combination punching on his side. Foreman just pounded and clubbed guys with no real science. What also gets overlooked is Foreman was often the bigger guy by some margin, most of his early opponents were under 200lb and he didn't beat anyone of note before winning the title.

Yes Foreman did it in a different way, but it certainly was effective. True, some of Foreman's opponents were below the magical 200 pound mark.
Foreman did stop Chuvalo before he won the title. That is more impressive than anyone Tyson stopped before he won the title.

Stopping Frazier, Norton, Chuvalo, and Lyle trumps Berbick, Thomas, Ruddock, and Tubbs.

BoxBuzz wrote:

Kalan wrote:Yeah... But there's all different versions of a boxer. A little different version every time he steps into the ring. But at 28 or 29 a boxer should still be getting better and not worse. He should be prepared for the opponent in front of him. In this case Jimmy Young was ready and psyched to the gills -- where he generally didn't look as ready. Foreman was at his very best for the first Frazier fight. He looked super confident, ripped, and ready as fuk. He wasn't every time out.

Those guys looked great is some fights and not too terrific in others... The thing with Joshua is, he's been pretty damned consistently in great shape.

Cmon, wrap a rubber band around your head and snap out of it. Jimmy Young just wore Foreman down so bad that YOU could have knocked him down. Hard to say that it was Jimmy's power that did it....it was George wasting so much energy chasing him. You seem to be discounting some facts. All the credit to Jimmy, whom I was happy to see win, but he hardly overpowered him.

He out-smarted him silly goose... The thing is they both used their punching power to hit each other -- and it wasn't the feather hitter who hit the deck. Now take that rubber band and wrap it around your eyes -- and snap them a few times sleepy boy... It might wake you out of your fog.

Well now your seeing things my way.....he outsmarted him...yep.....good to see you found your thinking cap. Now get yourself some Velcro, to keep it in place.

Pound for pound rocky is the hardest puncher. He only weighed like 184 and koed 43/49

cfang wrote:Pound for pound rocky is the hardest puncher. He only weighed like 184 and koed 43/49

Pound for Pound as a HW? Or of all weight classes? Now your going to have to sort this out with UnoWho who is likely to tout Valero as the pound for pound hardest hitter of all time.

Who knows, maybe even the tall guy wins this one.

Ambling Alp II wrote:
Stopping Frazier, Norton, Chuvalo, and Lyle trumps Berbick, Thomas, Ruddock, and Tubbs.

Ali stopped Frazier, Liston, Bonavena, Foreman and Lyle. That trumps both of them.

BoxBuzz wrote:Well now your seeing things my way.....he outsmarted him...yep.....good to see you found your thinking cap. Now get yourself some Velcro, to keep it in place.

I'm not seeing anything your way.. That's another one of your fantasies.. Every time I talk about Young-Foreman, and I talk about it more often than anyone else -- I always point out that a skilled jab pays the bills, tires your opponent out, and opens him up for other shots -- brains over brawn. That was me from the beginning. You like to tell people what they're thinking based on your trips through the moonbeams and not their posts.

q was who punched harder of the guys in the list lb 4 lb well thats rocky. The others guys prob hit harder but rocky when considering his size hit harder.

Kalan wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Well now your seeing things my way.....he outsmarted him...yep.....good to see you found your thinking cap. Now get yourself some Velcro, to keep it in place.

I'm not seeing anything your way.. That's another one of your fantasies.. Every time I talk about Young-Foreman, and I talk about it more often than anyone else -- I always point out that a skilled jab pays the bills, tires your opponent out, and opens him up for other shots -- brains over brawn. That was me from the beginning. You like to tell people what they're thinking based on your trips through the moonbeams and not their posts.

Now now, stop your exaggerating, or people will imagine that on occasion, you are guilty of punching above your weight.

cfang wrote:q was who punched harder of the guys in the list lb 4 lb well thats rocky. The others guys prob hit harder but rocky when considering his size hit harder.

I don't necessarily disagree, thanks for the clarification.

The great Mike Tyson was the best one punch KO artist I have seen at heavyweight. He can really hit.

elmersalsa wrote:The great Mike Tyson was the best one punch KO artist I have seen at heavyweight. He can really hit.

And/but he had remarkable aim/speed. Taking nothing from him....just that those two dynamics can get monsterous results, while utilizing less power.


Punch power vs puch effectiveness is perhaps a nuance, but a significant difference. I think Tyson got better "mileage" from his energy than Foreman.

Foreman was never as accurate or fast as Mike. sort of Like a Dump Truck vs a Cherry Picker. lol.

Controversial wrote:
Ali stopped Frazier, Liston, Bonavena, Foreman and Lyle. That trumps both of them.

His own treacherous cornerman, Eddie Futch "stopped" Frazier--not Ali.

Both Liston-Ali "fights" stunk to high heavens.

The Lyle "stoppage" stunk to high heavens.

Sidney Carton wrote:
The Lyle "stoppage" stunk to high heavens.

How? He was teeing off on Lyle and callling the ref to stop it.

Controversial wrote:

Sidney Carton wrote:
The Lyle "stoppage" stunk to high heavens.

How? He was teeing off on Lyle and callling the ref to stop it.

So Ali directs the refree on what to do and you think that's normal?

Sidney Carton wrote:

Controversial wrote:

Sidney Carton wrote:
The Lyle "stoppage" stunk to high heavens.

How? He was teeing off on Lyle and callling the ref to stop it.

So Ali directs the refree on what to do and you think that's normal?

No Lyle was being hit at will and not throwing back, it needed stopping regardless, nothing dodgy about it

Controversial wrote: Lyle was being hit at will and not throwing back, it needed stopping regardless, nothing dodgy about it

Ali was slapping at Lyle's arms, if you call that "being hit."

Don Dunphy was astonished that a ref would stop a heavyweight championship based on that

and had a lengthy interview in the ring with cornerman Chickie Ferraro about that after the fight.

Sidney Carton wrote:

Controversial wrote: Lyle was being hit at will and not throwing back, it needed stopping regardless, nothing dodgy about it

Ali was slapping at Lyle's arms, if you call that "being hit."

Don Dunphy was astonished that a ref would stop a heavyweight championship based on that

and had a lengthy interview in the ring with cornerman Chickie Ferraro about that after the fight.

Maybe you should watch it again, Lyle was reeling across the ring and then Ali was knocking his head back without Lyle returning any punches, fast forward to 3mins 45s of video

https://youtu.be/7cqyws2zUmU

Controversial wrote: Maybe you should watch it again,

Garbage.

Maybe you should tell Don Dunphy and Chickie Ferraro to "watch it again."

Ali spent the entire fight on the ropes with Lyle punching at him.

Compare this farce with the ending of the Foreman-Lyle fight, which was not even a title fight.

It was not a good ending, but Lyle was trying to get Ali to punch himself out and he wasn't punching back... He was doing a little play acting too.. You leave referees with chances to interpret the ending they would like to see.. So he needed to throw a punch or 2 back.. Lyle was ahead of the cards and you don't give up a lead late in a fight because you're not punching.. You saw MIkey Garcia throw 300 punches in the final 3 rounds when he was way ahead.