BoxRec

Goodnight, Irene wrote:A miracle, you say? Damn...I forgot to add that into my equations. What've we got for factors with Duran, be they negative or positive? Let's see...

Overweight
Under-trained
Under-prepped
Disinterested
Upset stomach
Unbeateable by anyone, ever, during Montreal
Above Lightweight
Post-1979
Divine intervention

Anything else?

You know for a fact that at 154lbs and beyond, Duran was TERRIBLE. Look at his record at that weight class. He even lost to Kirkland Laing, for cripes sake! Laing did the same thing the great Sugar Ray Leonard: Use his speed at a weight class that Duran is not at his best.

Where's a violin when you need one?

Goodnight, Irene wrote:A miracle, you say? Damn...I forgot to add that into my equations. What've we got for factors with Duran, be they negative or positive? Let's see...

Overweight
Under-trained
Under-prepped
Disinterested
Upset stomach
Unbeateable by anyone, ever, during Montreal
Above Lightweight
Post-1979
Divine intervention

Anything else?

Any boxing fan knows lightweight was Duran's division. How many lightweights would you bet your life savings on definitely beating Duran?

Every sportsman can be criticised or be inconsistent. Tiger Woods, Ronnie O'Sullivan and Roger Federer are a few men on top of their game but don't always win. Boxing is no different.

Come on. Everyone knows Duran was the best ever. The man was 300 lbs. between the Leonard fights and ropped all of that weight in 5 weeks in order to fight the rematch, draining his energy and fighting spirit. He beat SRL so esy the first time that he hardly even took training seriously and simply starved himself while sparring with a variety of wild animals because human flesh was too weak to withstand the man's power. He even killed one of the bulls he was sparring with in one punch.

As one of the bigger Duran fans you will find I will pose a question to the objective minority. First I should say it's absurd when someone says Duran would wipe his ass with a Benny Leonard, Whitaker or Ike Williams just to name a few of the great Lightweights that get shoved aside.

The thing with Duran, as one who thinks himself to be an objective Duran head, can you name another great in your viewing life who completely changed how he fought? The man went from a relentless attacker to a counter-puncher. But it was the subtlety with which he pulled it off that blew my mind. I've never seen a fighter so intent to force war and so conscious of his defense on tape or live. The way he rolled with shots well into his 30's and the way he changed his style completely while maintaining the most accurate right hand I've ever seen will always capture my admiration.

I fully understand the overrated aspect because he is such a revered God of the sport. But let's tilt a glass for the genius of the man even as we admit that he wasn't unbeatable. Ray Arcel would have picked Benny over him, but he damn sure would have picked Roberto over anyone else.

Barrera had a somewhat similar style change as the years passed.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:As one of the bigger Duran fans you will find I will pose a question to the objective minority. First I should say it's absurd when someone says Duran would wipe his ass with a Benny Leonard, Whitaker or Ike Williams just to name a few of the great Lightweights that get shoved aside.

The thing with Duran, as one who thinks himself to be an objective Duran head, can you name another great in your viewing life who completely changed how he fought? The man went from a relentless attacker to a counter-puncher. But it was the subtlety with which he pulled it off that blew my mind. I've never seen a fighter so intent to force war and so conscious of his defense on tape or live. The way he rolled with shots well into his 30's and the way he changed his style completely while maintaining the most accurate right hand I've ever seen will always capture my admiration.

I fully understand the overrated aspect because he is such a revered God of the sport. But let's tilt a glass for the genius of the man even as we admit that he wasn't unbeatable. Ray Arcel would have picked Benny over him, but he damn sure would have picked Roberto over anyone else.

Enough glasses (too many, for my money) have already been tipped to him.

It's about time some were tipped to Leonard, Gans, Whitaker, Williams & co.

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Come on. Everyone knows Duran was the best ever. The man was 300 lbs. between the Leonard fights and ropped all of that weight in 5 weeks in order to fight the rematch, draining his energy and fighting spirit. He beat SRL so esy the first time that he hardly even took training seriously and simply starved himself while sparring with a variety of wild animals because human flesh was too weak to withstand the man's power. He even killed one of the bulls he was sparring with in one punch.

Duran invented the giraffe when he uppercutted a horse. True story.

tzyuforever wrote:

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Come on. Everyone knows Duran was the best ever. The man was 300 lbs. between the Leonard fights and ropped all of that weight in 5 weeks in order to fight the rematch, draining his energy and fighting spirit. He beat SRL so esy the first time that he hardly even took training seriously and simply starved himself while sparring with a variety of wild animals because human flesh was too weak to withstand the man's power. He even killed one of the bulls he was sparring with in one punch.

Duran invented the giraffe when he uppercutted a horse. True story.

I can't wait for a poster with Duran's photo on it & the heading, "50 Roberto Duran Facts," in the vein of all those Chuck Norris posters.

Duran would destroy Chuck Norris.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:As one of the bigger Duran fans you will find I will pose a question to the objective minority. First I should say it's absurd when someone says Duran would wipe his ass with a Benny Leonard, Whitaker or Ike Williams just to name a few of the great Lightweights that get shoved aside.

The thing with Duran, as one who thinks himself to be an objective Duran head, can you name another great in your viewing life who completely changed how he fought? The man went from a relentless attacker to a counter-puncher. But it was the subtlety with which he pulled it off that blew my mind. I've never seen a fighter so intent to force war and so conscious of his defense on tape or live. The way he rolled with shots well into his 30's and the way he changed his style completely while maintaining the most accurate right hand I've ever seen will always capture my admiration.

I fully understand the overrated aspect because he is such a revered God of the sport. But let's tilt a glass for the genius of the man even as we admit that he wasn't unbeatable. Ray Arcel would have picked Benny over him, but he damn sure would have picked Roberto over anyone else.

Could well be the best post of 2010...

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:As one of the bigger Duran fans you will find I will pose a question to the objective minority. First I should say it's absurd when someone says Duran would wipe his ass with a Benny Leonard, Whitaker or Ike Williams just to name a few of the great Lightweights that get shoved aside.

The thing with Duran, as one who thinks himself to be an objective Duran head, can you name another great in your viewing life who completely changed how he fought? The man went from a relentless attacker to a counter-puncher. But it was the subtlety with which he pulled it off that blew my mind. I've never seen a fighter so intent to force war and so conscious of his defense on tape or live. The way he rolled with shots well into his 30's and the way he changed his style completely while maintaining the most accurate right hand I've ever seen will always capture my admiration.

I fully understand the overrated aspect because he is such a revered God of the sport. But let's tilt a glass for the genius of the man even as we admit that he wasn't unbeatable. Ray Arcel would have picked Benny over him, but he damn sure would have picked Roberto over anyone else.

Just made an eloquent post that makes a lot of sense. Believe or not I’m also a fan of Duran and his extraordinary abilities as a fighter. But at the same time I cannot make him the absolute winner of every conceivable match at any weight class like some people do on this forum. For instance, there is people on this website that does not give credit to other all-time lightweight greats such as Leonard, Whitaker, Williams, Ortiz, Armstrong, and few others.

When I take a look at for example, Ortiz record. I see he had way tougher opposition at lightweight than Duran did. He face defense wizard Locche, speed demon Laguna, boxer puncher Ramos, Loi, Brown, Elorde, and a few decent contenders.

Duran had Buchanan, De Jesus, Marcel (although, I think he was a little green at that point in his career), and few decent contenders.

Being objective here I pose a question for you: Would Duran have dominated the lightweight division like he did if he had faced Ortiz opposition?

And I’ll bet some people will say yes. And that is why so people consider Duran to be somewhat over-rated.
I for sure would not make him the absolute favorite vs Armstrong, Leonard, Whitaker, Williams, and Ortiz.

I would favor him over the guys Ortiz faced at 35. That doesn't mean he would steamroll them or win every fight. You're also including Jr Welterweights, Locche's style would have caused him a lot of trouble. If not beat him. Duran had tough fights against his opposition. I think Dejesus is pretty underrated actually, He & Buchanan would contend in any era. Viruet & Fernandez were capable guys as well.

How would Ortiz fair against Leonard or Hagler?

You're listing all-time greats, nobody is a definitive favorite over Benny Leonard or Ike Williams. Anybody dismissing the chances of those guys against Duran is probably not a fountain of information. At the same time, I find it equally as silly to say that the only way Duran could beat Whitaker would be with faulty judging.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I would favor him over the guys Ortiz faced at 35. That doesn't mean he would steamroll them or win every fight. You're also including Jr Welterweights, Locche's style would have caused him a lot of trouble. If not beat him. Duran had tough fights against his opposition. I think Dejesus is pretty underrated actually, He & Buchanan would contend in any era. Viruet & Fernandez were capable guys as well.

How would Ortiz fair against Leonard or Hagler?

You're listing all-time greats, nobody is a definitive favorite over Benny Leonard or Ike Williams. Anybody dismissing the chances of those guys against Duran is probably not a fountain of information. At the same time, I find it equally as silly to say that the only way Duran could beat Whitaker would be with faulty judging.

I agree. I pick Benny Leonard over Duran.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I would favor him over the guys Ortiz faced at 35. That doesn't mean he would steamroll them or win every fight. You're also including Jr Welterweights, Locche's style would have caused him a lot of trouble. If not beat him. Duran had tough fights against his opposition. I think Dejesus is pretty underrated actually, He & Buchanan would contend in any era. Viruet & Fernandez were capable guys as well.

How would Ortiz fair against Leonard or Hagler?

You're listing all-time greats, nobody is a definitive favorite over Benny Leonard or Ike Williams. Anybody dismissing the chances of those guys against Duran is probably not a fountain of information. At the same time, I find it equally as silly to say that the only way Duran could beat Whitaker would be with faulty judging.

I don't think anybody quite said that. I was saying, as I think Barry was too, that Whitaker would be a starting favourite in our eyes, but we know if he did win the fight, he'd probably get jobbed, on account of Duran's huge advantages in popularity & public sentiment.

That may be what we consider the likely outcome, but I, for one, certainly would never suggest it is the only way a fighter as superb as Duran could win against Whitaker's genius.

There is nothing wrong with picking Whitaker or lamenting his luck with the judges. I can't recall Duran getting many favorable nods. Most of the real close decisions went against him like Sims, Pazienza & Camacho 1. With the exception of Barkley, that could have went either way.

Nevertheless, the sway would be heavily for him in a fight with Whitaker. Heavily.

Maybe, I like to use impartial & competent judges in my mythical fights.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Maybe, I like to use impartial & competent judges in my mythical fights.

Well, then...advantage Pea D

benitezfan wrote:,wins controversial decision over leonard 1st fight,

i thought that fight was clearly a win for duran

I was watching an interview with Duran the other night. It was a recent one (last month or so). He gets asked a few standard questions (he’s being translated). Then they ask him who he believe sis the best fighter out there today.

He takes a moment to think it over… Then without a hint of irony on his face (though I can’t tell from his tone) he says, “It has to be me.” Classic Duran! He goes on to say how he would be too clever for Pacquaio.

Just made me laugh so much.

Ezzard wrote:I was watching an interview with Duran the other night. It was a recent one (last month or so). He gets asked a few standard questions (he’s being translated). Then they ask him who he believe sis the best fighter out there today.

He takes a moment to think it over… Then without a hint of irony on his face (though I can’t tell from his tone) he says, “It has to be me.” Classic Duran! He goes on to say how he would be too clever for Pacquaio.

Just made me laugh so much.

Another great Duran quote...

"There is only one legend...& that is me."

D

I like that unshakeable resolve and belief without having to resort to “I was robbed!”

At the end of 15 with Hagler he stands there baiting Marvin. He’s lost and got beaten up in the last few rounds but that defiance is machismo personified.

Ezzard wrote:I like that unshakeable resolve and belief without having to resort to “I was robbed!”

At the end of 15 with Hagler he stands there baiting Marvin. He’s lost and got beaten up in the last few rounds but that defiance is machismo personified.

Hagler really dropped the ball in that fight, I felt. He should've totally dominated, & probably stopped, Duran. At the least, he owed his own status a convincing points decision.

When I think of how that version of Duran would do against the other true greats of the Middleweight championship down through history, I cannot imagine Duran doing anywhere near as well with most of them as he did with Hagler. Monzon, for one, would have boxed, diced, & sent Duran home packaged along the Panama canal...

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ezzard wrote:I like that unshakeable resolve and belief without having to resort to “I was robbed!”

At the end of 15 with Hagler he stands there baiting Marvin. He’s lost and got beaten up in the last few rounds but that defiance is machismo personified.

Hagler really dropped the ball in that fight, I felt. He should've totally dominated, & probably stopped, Duran. At the least, he owed his own status a convincing points decision.

When I think of how that version of Duran would do against the other true greats of the Middleweight championship down through history, I cannot imagine Duran doing anywhere near as well with most of them as he did with Hagler. Monzon, for one, would have boxed, diced, & sent Duran home packaged along the Panama canal...

My guess it too would have gone the distance but would have been a far wider points decision. Like Griffith, Duran knew how to play his opponent's weaknesses.