BoxRec

gobbles wrote:

whicker wrote:

gobbles wrote:

A full ten minutes to get life-changing brain damage. The ref's job is to protect the fighter. All IJL did on Saturday was jog on the spot and dramatically dive between the fighters at the end of each round

The risk of brain damage is a risk all fighters take, at all times during a fight. Thats the nature of the sport, the risk.

The job of the ref is to stop the fight if he feels a fighter is in "no position to continue," and/or is not in a position to defend himself.

For sure, a lot of refs would have perhaps stopped this fight, but at te end of the day, IJL decided not to - it's a debatable decision, but not the "offence" some people are making it out to be.

What a load of rubbish. Ever heard the phrase "to save him from unnecessary punishment"????

The risk of injury is far greater from continuous, sustained punishment than "at all times during a fight".

x2.

ra2006 wrote:

Coco wrote:Ian John-Lewis is a good ref, Briggs has a corner to pull him out

Totally agree. Briggs was too brave for his own good and the corner should have really pulled him out at the end of round 9, I would have if I was in his corner.

Totally disagree. The ref's job is to protect a fighter, and that also includes protecting him against incompetent and brainless cornermen, which Briggs had on Saturday night.

Do you think anyone, anywhere, could seriously have objected to I.J.L stopping that fight between rounds, say after 8 or 9 rounds ? It was obvious the man had NO chance, and after saying one more round, Lewis would easily have waved it off, and spared Briggs, and everyone else, the agony of another steady 20 minute beating.

John Lewis wont be proud of that nights work, the pressure of a so called heavyweight world title fight clouded his judgement.

Well I put the post up about Ian getting his big shot and have to say was poor showing. Maybe if Briggs had just gone home and not been injured we wouldn't be having such a discussion, but he shouldn't have been in the fight after about 8 rounds and some of the shots he took, for example, in 11 and 12 were just unnecessary. Hope he's out of hospital soon and there are no long-lasting effects. Was a horrible, sustained beating that should not have been allowed to continue round after round like that.

Also, don't forget, the governing bodies are sanctioning these mismatches too so they need to look at themselves. Chisora vs Wlad up next. I mean, what's that all about?

Briggs thought the fight was stopped at the end of the 6th (you can tell by his body language) and he wasn't complaining which says it all.

I do disagree with the poster (was it James or Terry) who said Briggs doesn't carry power late into a fight. The greatest win of his career (forget the George Foreman fight, there is NO WAY he won that one) was a last second stoppage. I'm sure that was also going through the back of Ian John Lewis' mind (normally such a good referee) - but he did a bad call at the weekend.

That for me was every bit as bad as Enzo Mac's on the Mag 7 bill. Briggs was out of it at the 6th and took a systematic beating from then on. The fight shouldn't have seen the start of the 9th round IMO. Remember the Lewis fight how brave he was with amazing recovery powers - so give him a round or so to see if he can do anything, but I was stunned this fight went the distance.

IJL is a young referee, so I do hope he doesn't take this just criticism too much to heart and chalk it down to a bad night, as opposed to changing his style perminantly.

On a side note - isn't Eugine Monterio not allowed to fight in the UK cause of scan issues? He hasn't fought here since 2006 - I was stunned to see him back, looked horrible if I am honest. Looked all of his 40 years - not so much in the ring (although he didn't look good there) but his face.

All in all though I enjoyed the Primetime presentation - showed the bill in its entirety I think (cause of some quick endings).

MachoMan09 wrote:

wrimc wrote:I thought it goes to show how much Vitali has deteriorated

There were lots of times in that fight where a sustained barrage which would have gone unanswered would have had him out of there but every time he had Briggs in trouble he backed off and then went back to jab right hand.

I'm not sure if that shows that Vitali has deteriorated. It may do. The way I saw it, Vitali took the option not to put himself into scenarios where he could potentially get clipped. He took one full(ish) blooded shot throughout the entire duration of the fight. That is smart boxing. It is what enables you to box for years without getting hurt or risking losing future opportunities by getting caught with silly shots when you are otherwise in total control of a fight. The Michael Sprotts of the world should take note.

Also bear in mind that Briggs' neck is about twice the circumference it was when he fought Lennox which let him absorb the prolonged beating.

Shirow wrote:

MachoMan09 wrote:

wrimc wrote:I thought it goes to show how much Vitali has deteriorated

There were lots of times in that fight where a sustained barrage which would have gone unanswered would have had him out of there but every time he had Briggs in trouble he backed off and then went back to jab right hand.

I'm not sure if that shows that Vitali has deteriorated. It may do. The way I saw it, Vitali took the option not to put himself into scenarios where he could potentially get clipped. He took one full(ish) blooded shot throughout the entire duration of the fight. That is smart boxing. It is what enables you to box for years without getting hurt or risking losing future opportunities by getting caught with silly shots when you are otherwise in total control of a fight. The Michael Sprotts of the world should take note.

Also bear in mind that Briggs' neck is about twice the circumference it was when he fought Lennox which let him absorb the prolonged beating.

Briggs's extreme musculature is suspicious. I would say there is a strong suspicion of juicing/PEDs

Statement by Briggs on fightnews.com:-

By Shannon Briggs

Thank you all for your concern. I came to the hospital saturday night strictly as a precautionary measure, and after several tests the Dr.’s concluded that there were no severe head injuries. I am staying in the hospital to further examine an injury to my left bicep that I suffered in the first round. Unfortunately, the injury kept me from fully executing my fight plan. Not to take anything away from a brilliant performance by Vitali Klitchko Saturday night, had I had not injured my arm early on, who knows how the fight would have concluded. We are grateful to the fine doctors and people of Hamburg for the excellent care and support they’ve given me thus far, and as a life long asthmatic sufferer I’m truly grateful to Dr. Charles Hensley and his homeopathic formulation Zivair that helped make it possible to go 12 rounds and compete for the WBC title. As witnessed Saturday night and throughout my career, I never gave in even when my breathing was out of order or any injury kept me from being 100%. Despite prior reports, throughout the contest my trainer Herman Caicedo wanted to stop the fight, but I made it clear that stopping the fight was not an option. Thank you for all of your support and hopefully I showed you the heart of a lion and the perseverance of a champion.

October 18th 2010

glad to hear shannon briggs is ok!.....was it a proper bad beating

bfchunk wrote:Statement by Briggs on fightnews.com:-

By Shannon Briggs

Thank you all for your concern. I came to the hospital saturday night strictly as a precautionary measure, and after several tests the Dr.’s concluded that there were no severe head injuries. I am staying in the hospital to further examine an injury to my left bicep that I suffered in the first round. Unfortunately, the injury kept me from fully executing my fight plan. Not to take anything away from a brilliant performance by Vitali Klitchko Saturday night, had I had not injured my arm early on, who knows how the fight would have concluded. We are grateful to the fine doctors and people of Hamburg for the excellent care and support they’ve given me thus far, and as a life long asthmatic sufferer I’m truly grateful to Dr. Charles Hensley and his homeopathic formulation Zivair that helped make it possible to go 12 rounds and compete for the WBC title. As witnessed Saturday night and throughout my career, I never gave in even when my breathing was out of order or any injury kept me from being 100%. Despite prior reports, throughout the contest my trainer Herman Caicedo wanted to stop the fight, but I made it clear that stopping the fight was not an option. Thank you for all of your support and hopefully I showed you the heart of a lion and the perseverance of a champion.

October 18th 2010

Yes, was just going to post this. As I thought (and hoped) Fight News ('First with the news, even if it isn't!') were off beam with the 'critical condition' stuff...

King Geedorah wrote: Nonsense, I suppose Mike Tyson's late win over Ribalta shows that Mike was dangerous every minute of a contest? No, he wasn't, nor is Briggs, he scored a last gasp stoppage win over an average fighter but doesn't generally carry his power late. The Mercer win doesn't suggest this, either. One swallow and all that.

Briggs, like many heavies, loses a lot of his steam beyond the sixth and any stoppages scored after this point tells us more about the opponents, Liak, Mercer and a few scrubs, than it does Briggs' late power.

Only way Briggs was going to win this by late TKO was by forcing Vitali into an 'existential and moral crises' TKO loss after breaking down over the almost inhumane beating that he was administering to an opponent who was inadequate for the job at hand. VK's could have prepared for this one by hitting a side of beef with a golf club, forever.

Not only do I concur, I'd add that Briggs' cornermen should be held most accountable for telling him he could hang his left hand down by his waist against a bloke who can only throw one power-punch -- the straight right! I rather think telling the poor sod which punch is likely to be coming at him should've been a bit higher on their priority list.

Datsue wrote:
Not only do I concur, I'd add that Briggs' cornermen should be held most accountable for telling him he could hang his left hand down by his waist .

bicep tear?

I am not condoning the actions of the WBC or Ian John Lewis in one little way. Shannon Briggs was way past his (not so) best when he won the WBO title. However, the evidence is there that he can knock them out late - there are multiple late KO's on his resume, including the world title win. Only twice has he won a fight on points (beyond 6 rounders) - both against men with cast iron chins (and one of those should have been a loss). All I said was I'm sure IJL was thinking of the Liakovich fight by allowing Briggs every opportunity - shouldn't have, but I'm sure that was on his mind.

When the man only went more than 6 rounds on a less than a handful of occasions - hard to say what his power was late on.

Completely agree on his general ability and his deserving of this shot.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Datsue wrote:
Not only do I concur, I'd add that Briggs' cornermen should be held most accountable for telling him he could hang his left hand down by his waist .

bicep tear?

'Tis true, & I feel even more stupid as I posted about Briggs' actual medical condition yesterday!

2 out of how many? how many Briggs fights went beyond 8? (and how many of these did he win)

Did I say his punch power improves? All I said is that he had KO'd a few of them late. He doesn't do a Bruno esque fade in which the snap is visibily on the fade after 4 or 5 rounds - or a Junior Witter.

Maybe it is a reflection on how poor he generally is in the first few rounds that I say he doesn't fade... his punch output is crap from round 1.... well since the Lewis fight anyway. But its not like Bruno in that the punches that were hurting you before hand will start to feel more "arm like" as the fight progresses. Just the fact that he is unlikely to throw any punches from the opening bell.

I don't think he gets significantly weaker as the fight progresses - he was as terrible after a systematic beating, throwing the same amount of punches, after a torn bicep in round 12 on Saturday as he was fresh as a daisy in the opener.

Edit: Have the feeling this might turn into another clash - so let me reitorate - there is no way I think Shannon Briggs is in any way better than Frank Bruno. Also, regarding that analogy - I think I would laugh if I got that advice about anyone and certainly leave that coach. I don't know a single fight who you can say "he's got eff all early, but watch him after the 8th cause he turns it on then" - most fighters who seem to turn it on late, did alot of damage early also.

gobbles wrote:

What a load of rubbish. Ever heard the phrase "to save him from unnecessary punishment"????

Thats a journalist phrase. For sure, a ref will often stop a fight if he feels it has become overly one sided, but as always, it's a judgement call from the referee. If a ref feels that the fighter still has a fighting chance of winning, then he may indeed let the fight go on, even if it's one sided. Again, a judgement call.

whicker wrote:

gobbles wrote:

What a load of rubbish. Ever heard the phrase "to save him from unnecessary punishment"????

Thats a journalist phrase. For sure, a ref will often stop a fight if he feels it has become overly one sided, but as always, it's a judgement call from the referee. If a ref feels that the fighter still has a fighting chance of winning, then he may indeed let the fight go on, even if it's one sided. Again, a judgement call.

That's not a journalistic phrase at all. Three main reasons given for stoppage (other than injury) is save from unnecessary punishment, unable to defend himself, not in a position to continue.

Besides which, Ian John-Lewis let a guy fight on with a broken cheekbone, his face was grotesquely swollen and he didn't even have the sense to get an opinion from the ringside doctor, who said afterwards that it should have been stopped. He then comes out with the bollocks excuse that he was one or two punches away from stopping it - yet Klitschko kept hitting him. Did Briggs even land a punch in the last 3 rounds.

IJL is a clown and has always been a poor ref, as well as a poor judge.

King Geedorah wrote:Sad that he took so many shots. Vitali should have been able to tuck him away but guys sometimes take power shots early, acclimatise and then cling in there, it is hard to pull them out, hindsight is great but there's been a fair few fights that have seen guys take punishment only to turn the fight around, especially in the heavyweight division.

Remember thinking that Buckland should have been pulled from the Murray fight but that was just my opinion. We're on the sidelines and sometimes forget what it means to the guy who is in there fighting away and his corner team also.

Goes to show, Lewis put Shannon away when Briggs still had something to offer.

This fight was a complete mismatch from day dot. A guy who loses punch power after a few rounds taking on a fellow with steel chin and solid, if not concussive, punch power.

I rewatched that fight for the first time in years last night and it goes to show what 12 years does to you, back then Briggs was in shape, hungry and aggressive and gave Lennox a cracking fight, on saturday he was an inactive tub of lard who turned up for the paycheck, he's brave no doubt he could have just lay down when Vitali stepped his game up.

If i was in Lewis' shoes i would have done what the corner refused to and before the 10th (maybe 9th, only watched it once) abd told them that it's not competitive and if the next round continued in the same vein i'd pull Briggs out. Briggs has the power to KO anyone and it was a Hw title fight so i think that giving that ultimatum would be the fairest way to the stoppage that should have happened.

crusader wrote:

Coco wrote:Ian John-Lewis is a good ref, Briggs has a corner to pull him out

and if the corner fails to do so, the ref should step in.

You're right but in my opinion the corner should be the first to step in, brunos corner didnt wait for the ref when tyson was beating him to a pulp and it turned out he was a couple of shots away from loosing his eye.

These guys should know what their fighter is capable of and call it a day when they see their man loosing badly. First critisism should go to them.

It can be a tough call for the ref, how many times do guys on this site complain the fight was stopped too early. Of course i havent seen the fight and the ref is there to protect the fighters at the end of the day.