BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 16:14

littlepug wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 15:48

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 15:32

McClellan was rightly frustrated the ref was taking a ridiculous amount of time to resume the action, and also wouldn't really allow for any fighting at all on the inside.

I just watched it again, have to admit, it wasn't quite as bad as I remembered, however, it was still pretty shite reffing, and McClellan might well have ended the fight with a less intrusive referee.

Nah the refs just someone to blame, Mclellans problem was his inability to shorten his punches, his swings just flew over Benns bobbing head, he neglected his jab and general boxing skills(which were better than Benns) and didn’t move his head or upper body at all, pretty sure he was more in love with his power that night than ever before and all rational thought went out the window, on top of that Benns corner was keeping him motivated whilst Mclellans corner were probably draining him of enthusiasm, and on a different note I had a bet on Mclellan to ko Benn in the first so had every reason to point the finger but on the night with a potential 12 rounds to get it done Mclellan couldn’t do it

One thing I will agree with, is that McClellan threw his boxing skills out of the window that night, he was however always a bit too easy to hit, and was going to come unstuck at some point , nobody can absorb as many bombs as he did against Jackson and have a long career.

Yeah I’ll agree with that and you need a decent chin to take shots off Jackson ! Anyway nice to have a debate with someone without it resorting to insults and stuff, you know your stuff and respect you for it

littlepug wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 16:24

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 16:14

littlepug wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 15:48
Nah the refs just someone to blame, Mclellans problem was his inability to shorten his punches, his swings just flew over Benns bobbing head, he neglected his jab and general boxing skills(which were better than Benns) and didn’t move his head or upper body at all, pretty sure he was more in love with his power that night than ever before and all rational thought went out the window, on top of that Benns corner was keeping him motivated whilst Mclellans corner were probably draining him of enthusiasm, and on a different note I had a bet on Mclellan to ko Benn in the first so had every reason to point the finger but on the night with a potential 12 rounds to get it done Mclellan couldn’t do it

One thing I will agree with, is that McClellan threw his boxing skills out of the window that night, he was however always a bit too easy to hit, and was going to come unstuck at some point , nobody can absorb as many bombs as he did against Jackson and have a long career.

Yeah I’ll agree with that and you need a decent chin to take shots off Jackson ! Anyway nice to have a debate with someone without it resorting to insults and stuff, you know your stuff and respect you for it

Yeah, nothing wrong with a difference of opinion, and like you say, no need to resort to name calling over such things.

littlepug wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 15:13

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 15:04

littlepug wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 15:00
How so ? Benn got up in time and say about 2 seconds were wasted with Mclellan trying to rush in before ref called action and then Mclellan couldn’t finish it because Benn bobbed and weaved, no controversy, none whatsoever, both had a job to do and Benn did his, finger pointing after the event because someone lost is pointless

the ref broke up the action way too often.

Yeah he did but Benn didn’t ask him to, if you watch it back you can see Mclellan acting as if the refs instructions didn’t apply to him and he could just do as he wished, this caused longer breaks in the action as the ref made him wait for his signals, you just can’t start pushing and remonstrating with the ref with no comeback, so yes the ref was a bit crap but Mclellan brought on a lot of it himself, when all’s said and done Mclellan didn’t have what it took to win on the night.

Pure nonsense!

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 14:52

littlepug wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 11:07

oogiebe wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 10:42
No nothing can change what happened, but I'd like to think that it might prevent another similar situation from occurring.

I think the only thing that could’ve saved Gerald was his corner which on the night was beyond pitiful

If the ref had done his job properly, the fight would have ended in round one.

Agree 100%

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 17:24

littlepug wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 15:13

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 15:04
the ref broke up the action way too often.

Yeah he did but Benn didn’t ask him to, if you watch it back you can see Mclellan acting as if the refs instructions didn’t apply to him and he could just do as he wished, this caused longer breaks in the action as the ref made him wait for his signals, you just can’t start pushing and remonstrating with the ref with no comeback, so yes the ref was a bit crap but Mclellan brought on a lot of it himself, when all’s said and done Mclellan didn’t have what it took to win on the night.

Pure nonsense!

Disagree if you want, but it's not "pure nonsense."

It sure is when someone says gm didn't have what it took to win that night ...

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 17:36 It sure is when someone says gm didn't have what it took to win that night ...

I thought you were referring to the first round officiating.

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 17:36 It sure is when someone says gm didn't have what it took to win that night ...

He didn’t win ! I’m all for debate mate, and I’m not digging my heels in for the sake of it, it’s what I believe to be the truth so to counter my argument you have to produce more than that because what you’re saying is that those moments that the ref interrupted cost Gman the fight, now cmon man that’s a weak argument cos there was loads of time to finish it if he was capable but he didn’t and he wasn’t, I’m not pig headed enough to not have my opinion changed by reasonable thought but it’s got to have some weight behind it

No rebuttal needed...watch the damn fight...ref cost gm a win..long count, holding, the stalling, etc.....even the hometown announcers acknowledge the breaks benn received...fair officiating and he's stopped in one...to say he didn't have what it took that night is just plain wrong ... He had plenty....

I went ahead and watched the first round again. My observations:
1 - Benn got up pretty easily from the knockdown.
2 - Gerald was overanxious to get back to the fray and had to be pushed back by the ref, after GM pushed him. So he burned some time on his own.
3 - Benn did a great job of holding on, but each time the ref separated the two, McClellon didn't separate enough as instructed.
4 - I don't think the ref's actions in the first round were inapproptriate, nor did it have any impact on GM's ability to finish off Benn.
5 - for the rest of the fight, McClellan seemed to be going for the ko and later in the fight, wasn't himself and as the fight went further, it became apparent that something was wrong.

thats a ridiculous assessment...you need to watch it again...the only point thats remotely correct is #5

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 18:25 thats a ridiculous assessment...you need to watch it again...the only point thats remotely correct is #5

That's how I saw it. You can go watch again if you'd like.

Bottom line is if anyone thinks that ref didn't play a part in the outcome of the fight or gm 's injuries should stop watching boxing.

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 18:10 No rebuttal needed...watch the damn fight...ref cost gm a win..long count, holding, the stalling, etc.....even the hometown announcers acknowledge the breaks benn received...fair officiating and he's stopped in one...to say he didn't have what it took that night is just plain wrong ... He had plenty....

Watched it many times and my opinion still stands, cmon mate if your having to blame everyone around you for defeat then something’s not right, it’s like the Hatton thing about the ref not letting him work inside, make it fcuking happen if you want to win, don’t blame everyone around you for not figuring out a way to win cos the environment isn’t to your liking, and don’t start with the long count thing every count in history is either long or short just deal with what’s happening in front of you and if you can’t you lose it’s that simple, if you need all the aces in this game to win your in the wrong game, you know this you’re a boxing man I’ve read your posts and you know your stuff, it’s down to yourself in this sport and if you lose there’s no one to blame but yourself, I know you know this as well as I do

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 18:32 Bottom line is if anyone thinks that ref didn't play a part in the outcome of the fight or gm 's injuries should stop watching boxing.

littlepug wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 18:33

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 18:10 No rebuttal needed...watch the damn fight...ref cost gm a win..long count, holding, the stalling, etc.....even the hometown announcers acknowledge the breaks benn received...fair officiating and he's stopped in one...to say he didn't have what it took that night is just plain wrong ... He had plenty....

Watched it many times and my opinion still stands, cmon mate if your having to blame everyone around you for defeat then something’s not right, it’s like the Hatton thing about the ref not letting him work inside, make it fcuking happen if you want to win, don’t blame everyone around you for not figuring out a way to win cos the environment isn’t to your liking, and don’t start with the long count thing every count in history is either long or short just deal with what’s happening in front of you and if you can’t you lose it’s that simple, if you need all the aces in this game to win your in the wrong game, you know this you’re a boxing man I’ve read your posts and you know your stuff, it’s down to yourself in this sport and if you lose there’s no one to blame but yourself, I know you know this as well as I do

thats a little silly, in top flight sport the margins are razor thin, small edges make a huge difference.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 18:36

littlepug wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 18:33

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 18:10 No rebuttal needed...watch the damn fight...ref cost gm a win..long count, holding, the stalling, etc.....even the hometown announcers acknowledge the breaks benn received...fair officiating and he's stopped in one...to say he didn't have what it took that night is just plain wrong ... He had plenty....

Watched it many times and my opinion still stands, cmon mate if your having to blame everyone around you for defeat then something’s not right, it’s like the Hatton thing about the ref not letting him work inside, make it fcuking happen if you want to win, don’t blame everyone around you for not figuring out a way to win cos the environment isn’t to your liking, and don’t start with the long count thing every count in history is either long or short just deal with what’s happening in front of you and if you can’t you lose it’s that simple, if you need all the aces in this game to win your in the wrong game, you know this you’re a boxing man I’ve read your posts and you know your stuff, it’s down to yourself in this sport and if you lose there’s no one to blame but yourself, I know you know this as well as I do

thats a little silly, in top flight sport the margins are razor thin, small edges make a huge difference.

Crikey, you’d think the ref was punching Mclellan in the face the way some of you guys are going on ! What exactly do you think would of happened if the ref hadn’t been there at all, nothing that’s what, what the hell could he have done in those half seconds that would of changed the outcome?

thats a daft question.

A boxing referee isn't some innocent bystander with no control.....plays a major role in every fight and giving a fighter multiple seconds when hurt is like minutes.

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 19:39 A boxing referee isn't some innocent bystander with no control.....plays a major role in every fight and giving a fighter multiple seconds when hurt is like minutes.

The thing is that GM had plenty of time in the first round to take Benn out. Benn got up from the first knockdown on his own, climbing through the ropes without staggering. All the ref could do in the first round was warn and then penalize Benn for excessive holding. I don't believe there was any egregious time given to Benn. Can I be wrong? Of course I can.

Did GM have it to win that evening? That leads to my frustration with the fight in that Gerald's corner never asked for the ring doctor between rounds when he was complaining about headaches and breathing issues. He showed distressing signs as early as the third round. I guess I was so focused on GM's condition, I didn't pay all that much attention to who was winning anymore the first time I watched the fight in 1995. The ref blamed the corner; the corner blamed the ring doctor; someone said the London hospital released GM too quickly after surgery; etc. I always say that the first responsibility is fighters safety. The sport denied that to McClellan that fight. The outcome of the fight seems silly given the circumstances.

littlepug wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 18:33

Duran1970 wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 18:10 No rebuttal needed...watch the damn fight...ref cost gm a win..long count, holding, the stalling, etc.....even the hometown announcers acknowledge the breaks benn received...fair officiating and he's stopped in one...to say he didn't have what it took that night is just plain wrong ... He had plenty....

Watched it many times and my opinion still stands, cmon mate if your having to blame everyone around you for defeat then something’s not right, it’s like the Hatton thing about the ref not letting him work inside, make it fcuking happen if you want to win, don’t blame everyone around you for not figuring out a way to win cos the environment isn’t to your liking, and don’t start with the long count thing every count in history is either long or short just deal with what’s happening in front of you and if you can’t you lose it’s that simple, if you need all the aces in this game to win your in the wrong game, you know this you’re a boxing man I’ve read your posts and you know your stuff, it’s down to yourself in this sport and if you lose there’s no one to blame but yourself, I know you know this as well as I do

This is true... but the argument I have is the officiating... this is a touchy subject with me..I've probably discussed this fight more than any other...you don't need all the aces in the game to win but the cards shouldn't be marked either..... McClellan is ultimately responsible but a Ref has to enforce the rules and protect the fighter when fouls are committed..this official did neither..

I agree 100%, he had no defence

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 07:34

dawudboxer wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 06:58 Here is my opinion on how McClellan got brain damaged.

It is possible that he had a minor brain contusion that resulted from the Jackson fight, the area might have been more vulnerable following that fight, but it's impossible to say. What's for certain is that McClellan relied on his chin as a form of defence, he was far too open, and didn't seem to pay much regard to Jackson's power, which was pretty insane given Jackson's devastating KO record.

Benn got up and wasn’t wobbly, he was throwing back. That’s how it continued. The fact that he won the second and made it a war after that justifies the refs decision to let it continue.

JxhDel. wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 08:44 I still cannot understand how they let it continue with Benn getting stormed off so bad at the beginning, but whatever. It was said by a guy of McClellan's team that he suffered that type of concussion before also in sparring, other from getting clipped on it by Jackson. It was a matter of time before someone strucked his Achille's heel

dawudboxer wrote: ↑28 Mar 2019, 04:09 Benn got up and wasn’t wobbly, he was throwing back. That’s how it continued. The fact that he won the second and made it a war after that justifies the refs decision to let it continue.

JxhDel. wrote: ↑27 Jan 2019, 08:44 I still cannot understand how they let it continue with Benn getting stormed off so bad at the beginning, but whatever. It was said by a guy of McClellan's team that he suffered that type of concussion before also in sparring, other from getting clipped on it by Jackson. It was a matter of time before someone strucked his Achille's heel

Sure it was always a matter of heart by Nigel

Very few people in life get exactly what they deserve.....One of my favorite fights.