BoxRec

kingfinn wrote:people are too quick to jump on the audley harrison lynch mob wagon. At the end of the danny Williams lasted 8 rounds against vitali. The same danny williams that put on a dismal perfomance against Chisora, has been knocked out 5 times, a guy who struggled against mcdermott and lost to carl baker. Won how many fights by split decision and was obliterated by Harrison.

I dont see that many people critisising him.

I occasionally do, but it's dangerous territory, let me tell you!

kingfinn wrote:Guys who beat up / rape women and cheat bring the sport into disrepute not guys who freeze. The guy trained his best and when it came to it just didnt have the balls that doesnt make him the lucifer of boxing.

As you probably know, I made this very point in an article, but what people can't get past is that Harrison "conned" them out of 15 quid with his performance, while others didn't because they "had a go". Thus failing to provide value for money is deemed a much greater offence than any of the most heinous crimes perpetrated by more entertaining boxers.

kingfinn wrote:lol you've lost your own argument there, williams talked equally as much shit as harrison it just wasnt front page news, that and people like you have selective memories.

Indeed. Williams was still talking about world title shots after losing to Harrison and Sosnowski. Sprott talked of a world title challenge after Prizefighter, despite 15 losses to his name. Is that not "talking sh1t"?

That's not to criticise Sprott, just to point out how the fans don't hold all boxers to the same standard when making their criticisms. Virtually any boxer you talk to would tell you he wants to fight for - and can win - a world title. I once interviewed Ryan Barrett and he reckoned he could beat Chris John in Indonesia. Wildly optimistic and unrealistic, but should he be castigated for that?

the truth wrote:the difference between danny williams and harrison is simple, danny always gives 100 percent win or lose, audley doesnt and thats what people are pissed off about king finn

Did Williams give 100% when:

- sleepwalking to the final bell against massive underdogs in Palatis and Senior?
- outrageously fouling Mirovic to turn around a fight he was losing?
- outrageously fouling Sprott in their second fight?
- sleepwalking his way to a loss against Sprott in their third fight?
- pulling out of meeting Skelton on the morning of the fight for no apparent reason?
- routinely coming into fights terribly overweight? Including weighing in at over 20st for the Skelton rematch? (training is as much about "giving 100%" as the fight itself, since a lack of such can hamper chances of victory as well as the quality of the actual match)
- being almost as bad as Harrison in their forgettable first fight (for which Harrison shipped all the blame)?
- apparently not training at all and evidently not even trying to win against Chisora?

Look, I was as much of a Danny W fan as anybody and of course he came us some absolutely thrilling nights. But it's a fallacy to retrospectively describe him as an infallible warrior and unimpeachable ambassador of all that's good about boxing. He gave us more thrills than a lot of boxers, sure, but he also let the fans down on several occasions.

oliverfennell wrote: I once interviewed Ryan Barrett and he reckoned he could beat Chris John in Indonesia. Wildly optimistic and unrealistic, but should he be castigated for that?

fornicating right he should!

I don't think Danny W was ever criticism free. He had his fair share of critics. In a way, a much more frustrating fighter than Audley cause he had more natural fighting gut than Audley. Audley will never have that, and that's why would never progress anything beyond domestic class.

You cannot say there was never any frustration on these boards at his weight. Also, before the Boxrec British forum I used to post on Boxingranks and there was about 7 or 8 British fans who were excellent posters. I used to champion Danny on that forum - during his run of form which included the win over Francis in the rematch - I got my fair share of criticisms for it and that continued throughout - even after the Tyson win.

Okay, its all very well being critical of someone "talking shit" after a big win. I cannot remember Danny talking about a world title fight following say his win over Michael Murray, or even his win over Julius Francis. People around Danny would, Sky would, but that's actually one of the reasons why I was being criticised on Boxingranks "Danny has no ambition".... in hindsight, and looking at his conditioning subsequently - they were dead right. Essentially, Danny got his oportunity as a supposed warm up fight for Tyson. Much like Jesse Ferguson.... (upset Mercer, got the title fight with Bowe) thats pretty much where we must consider Danny status as a credible contender.

Danny really only talked of world title fights after Tyson, and actually more so after losing to Klitchsko and really only after big fights with Harrison, Skelton etc, and you know its in a slightly different context to Audley's claims. How many times were we told by the promoter and by ITV that these fights were "eliminators" for World title affairs.... what's Danny to say when Gabriel Clarke was saying "Well, you've beaten Audley, world title fight next"..... I don't think any fighter would say "umm, no I aint good enough" and FW certainly wouldn't have been pleased. If your promoter is harping on and on about world title fights next for the winner - then you know, hard not to think about it and mention it.

Audley talked big things before he set foot in a pro ring - bold statements not brought on by TV influences. You didn't hear Gary Richardson say on the announcement of the Middleton fight. "Well you've turned pro now... when do you think you are fighting for the British title".

Sprott I think is entitled (not deserving, don't get me wrong) to bring in his credential's as a world title contender. I believe he is high in the EBU rankings - Prizefighter was the springboard for Audley. Sosnowski got a shot just on the back of beating a past it Italian. Derrick Chisora got a shot (many people rank Sprott above Chisora in the UK). Even Ray Austin could be fighting again for the world title despite his drab showing against Klitchsko last time. I don't think he is deserving, but he is right to question how much lower is he than these guys who has got shots. He is such a nice guy, doesn't seem to have a bad relationship with any promoters - so its an easy fight to make.

Excellent post, Stu. Of course there has been plenty of criticism of Williams, but now that he's retired that's kind of been forgotten. I also know he achieved more than Harrison, and did so despite coming from much lower down the pecking order than Harrison did, and duly gets credit from me for that. But ultimately they both spent a great portion of their careers as direct rivals and comparisons are inevitable, but they are usually rather one-sided, i.e. praising Danny while forgetting his faults, and criticising Audley while forgetting his attributes and achievements - which, while ultimately fallig short of what was expected, are still not negligible. Not to mention criticising Harrison for things Williams (and other British heavyweights) have also been guilty of.

As for the "talking sh1t" about world titles. True enough that Williams only really got into that once he'd beaten Tyson while Harrison talked about it from the get-go. However bear in mind that Harrison, as an Olympic gold medallist, started from a much higher position. Williams, though a decent amateur, naturally did not turn pro with anything like the same fanfare and didn't become known to the wider public until the Tyson fight. Harrison was a household name even before he'd thrown his first paid punch and he was only pointing to previous examples of gold medal winners when lauding himself as a pro champion elect. That he ultimately fell well short of what he proclaimed for himself from the beginning doesn't change the fact that Olympic gold medallists at heavy and super-heavy of recent vintage included Lennox Lewis, Wlad Klitschko, Ray Mercer, etc. And the public expected he'd go at least some of the way that they did, too, so he wasn't a sol voice in talking of world titles from an early stage. OF COURSE they were "brought on by TV influences" - or at the very least supported by TV. Anyway, good point aboit "Danny has no ambition" and that's a good example of the cynicism that pervades boxing boards - someone says he can win a world title from the early days, and he's "arrogant", but if he DOESN'T say that, he's "got no ambition"!

And finally, Sprott - good points about his position vis a vis the likes of Harrison, Chisora and Austin being in the world title mix. Naturally I'd be happy for him to get a shot and would be cheering for him 100% - but it's just getting back to the "talking sh1t" angle - if Harrison was "talking sh1t" when he talked of world titles when he was still an undefetaed (albeit inexperienced) pro, or even as a four-times beaten pro - then what is Sprott doing as a guy with 15 losses on the slate? I know current form should count for more than numerical statistics, but surely if he was ever going to be a world title contender, we would have known about it at some point in his 50 or so fights so far!

jBacca wrote:

diggler wrote:id like to see harrison v fury, the build up would be fun and a good name for fury to have on his record

Me too.

Would like to see him fight (by fight I mean stand there, and be a punchbag) any of the prospects.

Sort of higher quality Matthew Ellis.[/quote

whilst on the subject of matthew ellis apparetnly he is going to be in the next prizefighter!!

I am absolutely amazed that anyone on here wants to see him fight ever again, I'm sure it will happen though and he'll talk half the British Public into believing he can beat anyone and full fill his Destiny.

Nightmare Roy wrote:I am absolutely amazed that anyone on here wants to see him fight ever again, I'm sure it will happen though and he'll talk half the British Public into believing he can beat anyone and full fill his Destiny.

one thing i do think is if he opened his own gym and worked as a trainer he would be very good. He has (although alot of people snub this) phenominal boxing skills which he needs to pass on. I still believe even now if he was dropped back in the amatures he would be the best about. He doesnt have a fighting gut and its something most people dont have but he did start as a pro quite late on and that may have had alot to do with it.

Yes, for all his faults as a pro boxer, he has always been a committed supporter of the sport -especially the amateur code - and would undoubtedly have a lot to offer outside the ropes.