Can you forgive Audley? Yes, you can!

[SteveDow]

I really hope you bring a higher standard of analysis to your work as a lawyer, the relevance of which to Haye-Harrison I must confess I don't quite see.

The public reaction to Audley was horrendous. Mike Tyson got a much better reception in his first fight after being convicted of rape than Aud did before, during, or after the Haye fight. So, whether or not the article was "sensationalist," it was certainly accurate on that count.

A boxing match consists of two men trying to use their boxing skills to emerge victorious. If you understand boxing you will realise that Audley was conforming to that - listen to Booth's breakdown of the fight or Dwyer from Gambler's Advisory on YouTube. The first two rounds may not have been good for the crowd but, given the huge discrepancy in boxing talent between Haye and Harrison, they went pretty well for Audley.

At the start of a chess game, the players have to move their pieces to enhance their chances of winning the match. At the start of the Haye fight, Audley enhanced his chances of winning by not throwing punches, because opening up would give Haye opportunities. His strategy was to take the fight into the later rounds when Haye normally tires. Then he got knocked out. That sort of thing does tend to happen in heavyweight boxing when one of the very best fights one of the very mediocre. What were you expecting to see?

You say that, "Many people, including myself, paid hundreds of pounds to watch a boxing match," for which Harrison "is inexplicably receiving a fortune." Yup, inexplicable.

You are disappointed at the value you got for your money, and blame Audley. You must have expected Audley Harrison to come out on November 13th and to fight like someone other than Audley Harrison. It didn't happen. Analyse your own behaviour logically, and you will find you cannot blame Audley for your disappointment.

Audley should have been throwing jabs and trying to actively land his left hand rather than sitting there doing nothing. His only chance to win the fight was to be active in the fight and throw jabs but he was too frightened to throw punches. He didn't fight a good fight at all. He fought a pretty bad fight if you ask me. Are you actually giving Audley credit for fighting the way he did? He gave himself no chance of winning. He should have been extending his jab out there and throwing left hands from time to time to make haye weary of opening up.

You are right about where the blame should lie. This fight was clearly what it was. Everybody knew it and everybody should have known that Audley had no chance here and would fight the way he has always fought, instead of changing and giving himself a chance to win the fight by being proactive.

Yes, even though Bruthead and I are on the same page in some respects, that's an odd reading of the fight. The way I saw it, Harrison not throwing punches only gave Haye even MORE confidence - i.e. how can you discourage a man without hitting him. I actually feel Haye was pretty wary in the early going, but Harrison's timidity gave him caret blanche to tee off.

Jesus Bruthead, you must either be a leading psychologist or have a phd in being patronising as you seem to be able to read my mind so well.

The relevance of me being a lawyer is just that I have worked on rape cases and the comparison in this case was ridiculous and unquantifiable (if you understand what that means).

Now let me get to your "expert" summary of the fight:

Your view was that Audley enhanced his chances of winning the fight by standing straight in front of one of the most destructive and aggressive fighters on the planet, scared to throw a punch and cowering everytime David Haye threw one of his trademark feints. Don't you think it may have been a good idea for him to let Haye feel his power early on? Don't you think it may have been a good idea for him to use his strength and size advantage to lean on Haye a bit to sap his strength? These are things which would have "enhanced" his chances of winning the fight, not standing there like a rabbit caught in the headlights for the first two rounds. Anybody who "knows boxing" would not advocate that this is the way to fight a guy like David Haye. Just look back to the Enzo Maccarinelli fight where Enzo (albeit not as bad) also froze and stood there not throwing any power shots. This kind of strategy merely serves to build Haye's confidence. Haye performs best when he sees fear in his opponents eyes and goes in for the kill. Harrisons tactics in that fight were as poor as your argument.

You have also completely misquoted me on the sentence about Harrison receiving a fortune. I was making a comparison with Harrison earning a fortune for that shambolic display when we have a fighter like Carl Froch who will give it his all in the ring this weekend and not receive anywhere near as much despite being many levels better than Harrison. If you are going to patronise people, at least quote them properly.

Yes, like many other fans, I am disappointed. Yes, I have the full right to blame the man who was the cause of that disappointment as a paying punter. Maybe, like most others, I was naive to think that Harrison would come and try to give it a go but that naivity certainly does not mean that I am not entitled to express my displeasure afterwards. On the contrary, as somebody who paid through the nose to see it I have more right than armchair fans to do so.

[SteveDow]

Oliver, I normally really like what you post but I have to say that I found this article sensationalist. I am a lawyer myself and the constant references to the public reaction as treating Audley as if he had raped someone are frankly ridiculous.

Nope, the reaction has been stronger than if he'd raped someone. That's the whole crux of the article. I'm not defending his performance - I was as disappointed by it as anybody - and I'm not asking anyone to sympathise with him. The point I'm making is that he's been turned into a pariah for a much lesser offence, whether on a sporting or societal level - than a great many others.

Oliver, the rape comment is just not quantifiable so I don't see why it needs to be used. Sorry to be pedantic but you have used that in the piece to grab attention rather than as something which is of factual importance.

[tonyevs]

The way I saw it, Harrison not throwing punches only gave Haye even MORE confidence - i.e. how can you discourage a man without hitting him. I actually feel Haye was pretty wary in the early going, but Harrison's timidity gave him caret blanche to tee off.

exactly the same way I saw it.

Lets not forget, the ref had a word with both of them in the 2nd to start actually fighting

[stujones]

Bruthead's post though got me thinking about one of my pet "hates" about Audley throughout his career, and actually one of things that fundamental show he is not a fighter at heart.

His over use of the word "strategy". Yes, its okay to be like Lennox be a chess player working to your own strengths. But Audley talked about strategies and gameplans regardless if it was David Haye or Derrick McAfferty and, whats more, nearly all of his strategies involved the same thing really - going the rounds, picking his shots finding his moment for his straight left to do the damage.

Its great to have a strategy, don't get me wrong. Wladimir Klitchsko uses a great strategy now - but sometimes, just sometimes even Lewis would say "fornicate any game of chess" I'm just going out there to knock his block off.... Audley tried to play it intelligent in the Lewis mold, but failed miserably and it was embarresing the level of opponent he had to meticulously mentally and physically prepare for "had a great camp" was a phrase he often used no matter what the level. Elite FIGHTERS don't need a camp to beat someone with a losing record - they just go out there and do it.

As I said before Audley needed a "camp" mentality so that he could fill it with yes men and work constantly on technique and bullying sparring session - which camoflagued his fear of taking shots.

[oliverfennell]

Oliver, I normally really like what you post but I have to say that I found this article sensationalist. I am a lawyer myself and the constant references to the public reaction as treating Audley as if he had raped someone are frankly ridiculous.

Nope, the reaction has been stronger than if he'd raped someone. That's the whole crux of the article. I'm not defending his performance - I was as disappointed by it as anybody - and I'm not asking anyone to sympathise with him. The point I'm making is that he's been turned into a pariah for a much lesser offence, whether on a sporting or societal level - than a great many others.

Oliver, the rape comment is just not quantifiable so I don't see why it needs to be used. Sorry to be pedantic but you have used that in the piece to grab attention rather than as something which is of factual importance.

Why is it so hard for you to grasp why I was making the comparison? And you're talking as if it was the only comparison I was making. It was just one out of a list of misdeeds by a number of boxers, all of which I consider to be more serious than what Harrison did, but for which they were not nearly so castigated. The point is that the criticism, while valid, has been out of proportion to the offence.

[Nightmare Roy]

Oliver, I normally really like what you post but I have to say that I found this article sensationalist. I am a lawyer myself and the constant references to the public reaction as treating Audley as if he had raped someone are frankly ridiculous.
The fact is that Audley was paid well over a million pounds to contest a boxing match. A boxing match consists of two men throwing punches at each other until one emerges victorious. Many people, including myself, paid hundreds of pounds to watch a boxing match and saw a guy standing there doing nothing for three rounds before being stopped.
This is the equivilant of a chess player failing to move a piece on the board. He did not do what he was paid to do.

It's all good and well to feel sorry for poor Aud when you see the tears etc but the fact is that Audley Harrison is a complete fraud. He is an embarassment to British boxing and is inexplicably receiving a fortune for being so.

Next week, one of the best, bravest, most entertaining British fighters
of the last 20 years takes part in a bone fide world title fight. Yet Carl Froch won't be getting anywhere near what Fraudley got for that farce next week.

x2

x100000 It makes me so mad when you get fighters like Aud getting more money for one fight that he didn't even try than some long serving british, European and even world champions get in thier whole careers.

[Finn]

The way I saw it, Harrison not throwing punches only gave Haye even MORE confidence - i.e. how can you discourage a man without hitting him. I actually feel Haye was pretty wary in the early going, but Harrison's timidity gave him caret blanche to tee off.

exactly the same way I saw it.

Lets not forget, the ref had a word with both of them in the 2nd to start actually fighting

I have to say i think it was clear auds gameplan was to take it to the later rounds especially if you listen to what his trainer was telling him in the coner.
I posted previously saying his trainer had to take alot of blame for that fight, it was a silly plan.

I actually think that if haye had come out and been more active harrison may have switched into fight mode. It looked to me as if haye keeping his distance made harrison think he was worried about engaging and lulled him into a false sense of security. Then as he does and always does Haye just suddenly explodes and once he lands clean ie the first punch its too late.

Harrison was caught clean by a left, the first meaningful punch of the fight, he was actually trying to counter with his left at the time himself. But with hayes speed and power he was never going recover, if he hadnt been so stunned by that punch and exchange i think he would have thrown down the gauntlet and we may have got 2 / 3 rounds of decent action.

Bottom line is - Haye is a force to be reckoned with and 99% of fighters would have gone the same way even if that had come out swining. I was there when he fought ruiz and that fight was nearly over before it started, if he had been at the lighter weight he came in for the harrision fight it would have been over in the 1st round imo.

[Spud]

Sorry guys this is the last thread from the last few months I shall bring up.

Whilst I criticised Audley at any opportunity I think its ironic and bloody hilarious that for someone who faced so many critics how he made so much money in the last few years as a professional. If he was as sh*t as everyone states how come he made at least 7 figures in his professional career??

[johnnygreaves]

Haye was as bad as Harrison for the first two rounds. He's bum was flapping as much I thought . Said he was waiting for the third round but I didn't buy that . I can't really dig out either but the fact it was for the world title is bad for boxing . Aud was not good , but haye looked no legend himself. I boxed on the show against an unbeaten venuzoulan with a load of ko,s on his record . But at least I had a little go .

[johnnygreaves]

That last post was a little unfair on David , I'm sorry for that. What I mean is . For a prize of that magnitude . I just expected a bit more Passion from both. Audley must be a bit upset with himself . But you can't run the man down too much on a personal level. It was just a boxing match. I bet he feels terrible enough as it is

[jessi]

can i forgive him ? of course his human. will i watch him again ? if his not ppv yes

[oliverfennell]

Haye was as bad as Harrison for the first two rounds. He's bum was flapping as much I thought . Said he was waiting for the third round but I didn't buy that . I can't really dig out either but the fact it was for the world title is bad for boxing . Aud was not good , but haye looked no legend himself. I boxed on the show against an unbeaten venuzoulan with a load of ko,s on his record . But at least I had a little go .

Indeed, Johnny. Haye was just as bad for two rounds. Much has been made of Harrison's one punch landed, but they must have both gone 0 for 0 over two rounds. He did look, if not scared, definitely hesitant. I think it could be telling that the two times Haye has abandoned his aggressive approach and fought cautiously, it has been against super-heavyweights (Valuev and Harrison). It doesn't bode well for a Klitschko fight.

[stujones]

Haye is cautious of his chin. Remember the first round vs Enzo Mac also...... A big problem with Haye I feel is that he likes to fight tall. He has big problems dealing with bigger men, he weary of getting caught coming in - so he focuses on his speed, but due to the wearyness he looks clumbsy just trying to almost literally jump in.

[hurlock]

pooh article :!: why is he being compared with fighters???

watching harrison attempt to fight is painfull & i wouldnt cross the road to watch him.

[johnnygreaves]

Harrison just froze on his big chance . Simple. But he,s still Olympic champ. Beet a couple of good lads over the years. No I wouldn't go out my way for tickets to watch him again , but, hurlock you by judgeing a few of your posts seem like a proper expert . Can you let us know what boxing you have done & at what level. I'd be shocked if you've done much, coz your quite rude and frankly quite irritating

[Matt W]

Haye is cautious of his chin. Remember the first round vs Enzo Mac also...... A big problem with Haye I feel is that he likes to fight tall. He has big problems dealing with bigger men, he weary of getting caught coming in - so he focuses on his speed, but due to the wearyness he looks clumbsy just trying to almost literally jump in.

I agree with this but also think it's possibly due to concerns about stamina. Fortunately his opponents are wary of his power which allows him to fight in spurts.

[stujones]

Sorry guys this is the last thread from the last few months I shall bring up.

Whilst I criticised Audley at any opportunity I think its ironic and bloody hilarious that for someone who faced so many critics how he made so much money in the last few years as a professional. If he was as sh*t as everyone states how come he made at least 7 figures in his professional career??

Cause he was a name..... thats the big problem with fans - plenty of fighters of much better quality haven't made not half as much as Audley.

Audley was a millionaire before he faced Middleton.

Amazing negotiator and I do laugh so loud when he says its the BBC contract that ruined him - thats what made him.