BoxRec

What about health risks for Haye?

If it is deemed unsafe for Chagaev to fight in the UK, then are our rules too strict or would David be putting himself at risk by agreeing to fight him in a country that will allow Ruslan to fight?

I'm sure if there was a risk Wlad wouldn't have fought him.

The much hyped so called saviour of the heavyweights is now reduced to taking on a reheated 38 year old Cruiserweight ??

He's making Wlad and Vitali's opponents look better by the day.

What a farce his HW career has turned in to - 4 or 5 fights at HW and the WBA champ has YET to face a live contender.

It seems crafty Adam Booth has cleverly managed to negotiate Haye's career down the pan. He's messed around the Klitchkos for 2 years now, thinking he held all the aces, but all he's been left holding is his d**k.

doctorboxing wrote:What about health risks for Haye?

If it is deemed unsafe for Chagaev to fight in the UK, then are our rules too strict or would David be putting himself at risk by agreeing to fight him in a country that will allow Ruslan to fight?

The fact that some jurisdictions say 'safe', others say 'not safe' suggests that Hepatitis is a grey area in terms of the risk it presents to opponents. Certainly, New York is another jurisdiction that views it as a danger, they scratched Holyfield-Akinwande at the last minute when Henry tested positive. Maybe the question shouldn't be whether Britain's rules are too strict but whether Germany's are too lax? Germany appears to be the odd one out here.

stujones wrote:Being serious, but I think Holyfield is more worthy of a shot.

If you haven't done so already, watch Holyfield v Sherman Williams and THEN tell me he's worthy of a shot...

Glyn Leach wrote: Under these strange circumstances, it would be pretty unfair of the WBA to strip Haye for not fighting a mandatory contender who is treated like he has the plague.

Who is the next highest-ranked available contender? The WBA would probably be OK with Haye fulfilling his mandatory obligations that way.

Glyn Leach wrote:But what sort of crowd would Haye draw compared to the fight taking place in Britain?

Good question. Chagaev's last fight took place in front of about 300 people, and that's not an exaggeration.

Glyn Leach wrote:How much extra would it cost Sky to do an outside broadcast from Germany?

They often send a team to the US for fights there, sometimes not even PPV and not featuring a Brit, so I'm sure this would not be a problem

Glyn Leach wrote:How much would it affect the PPV buy if Haye wasn't on hand in Britain for press duties in the immediate run up to the fight?

Didn't hurt the Haye-Valuev PPV figures, did it? And again, plenty of British boxers have fought in the US, making them even less accessible to the UK press.

oliverfennell wrote:

stujones wrote:Being serious, but I think Holyfield is more worthy of a shot.

If you haven't done so already, watch Holyfield v Sherman Williams and THEN tell me he's worthy of a shot...

Didn't say he was worthy of a shot, I said more worthy than Mormeck. Many people thought Mormeck lost to Oquendo and Tumor Ibragimov. He didn't even have it all his own way against Maddalone.

Seen the Williams fight, didn't say alot IMO. I've seen Holyfield take his beatings enough to know he didn't quit. I think that butt hurt him and he was struggling, but I'm sure Holyfield would found away, the thing is - he didn't lose and its impossible to say if he was booked for defeat.

The fact that its even a debate about Holyfield vs Williams, shows how much Holyfield has regressed - but Holyfield has done better in the common opponents at Heavyweights (and this is a relatively recent version of Holyfield who fought Oquendo and Maddalone). Mormeck was very lucky last time out to get the win... and thats against the worst Ibragimov.

I'd like to see Haye Vs Arreola if the Klit fight ain't happening yet

I've visited and exited this thread about 20 times now. I just can't find the words.

stujones wrote:

oliverfennell wrote:

stujones wrote:Being serious, but I think Holyfield is more worthy of a shot.

If you haven't done so already, watch Holyfield v Sherman Williams and THEN tell me he's worthy of a shot...

Didn't say he was worthy of a shot, I said more worthy than Mormeck. Many people thought Mormeck lost to Oquendo and Tumor Ibragimov. He didn't even have it all his own way against Maddalone.

Seen the Williams fight, didn't say alot IMO. I've seen Holyfield take his beatings enough to know he didn't quit. I think that butt hurt him and he was struggling, but I'm sure Holyfield would found away, the thing is - he didn't lose and its impossible to say if he was booked for defeat.

The fact that its even a debate about Holyfield vs Williams, shows how much Holyfield has regressed - but Holyfield has done better in the common opponents at Heavyweights (and this is a relatively recent version of Holyfield who fought Oquendo and Maddalone). Mormeck was very lucky last time out to get the win... and thats against the worst Ibragimov.

Yeah, get your point in the first paragraph and can't disagree with the last paragraph.

About Holyfield quitting or not, I don't know. It sure looked that way. Of course it's accepted that his whole career has proved him the very antithesis of a quitter, but after a long, hard career it can happen to even the bravest men. I won't judge him for it if it was the case. Just sad to see a guy who was once chomping at the bit to get back at a man who ripped off part of his ear being so dejected by what was no more than a nick.

charlieb wrote:I've visited and exited this thread about 20 times now. I just can't find the words.

Relax. Vent your bile if the fight is actually signed, but for now it's nothing more than speculation.

Oliver - The Valuev PPV had freak value, pun intended. Chagaev is not a 7ft 2ins giant, he's a far harder sell.

And the next best available WBA contenders, IMO, would be Povetkin (also with Sauerland, should be easy to make) or, don't laugh, Rahman. Boystov, Ustinov, the other fighters in the Top 5, who cares? Probably not even the WBA. Marketing wise, Povetkin's an up and comer and Rahman could be sold as the guy who KO'd Lennox (with the rematch being conveniently forgotten).

Glyn Leach wrote:Rahman could be sold as the guy who KO'd Lennox

He was thought of as poor, managed to knock Lewis out and get spanked in a rematch and 10 years and lots of mediocrity later is being talked about as one of the more credible challengers for 'the Heavyweight Champion'.

Dioufy wrote:Enzo Macc should move up to heavy, blame his mutiple KO losses on weight-making, even though he's a tiny crusier, beat Julious Long, call out Haye - he'll probably get a go too, then blame his dramatic KO loss on making a "mistake". You peeps may well laugh, but Haye's heavyweight career isn't the best so far.

And, remember, Enzo Calzaghe said: "If it was a longer fight, Enzo would have won!" DD DD

I'll never forget him saying that.

Vinny Vehicone (spelt the surname wrong, I know), Peter McNeeley's trainer, should have used that one when his guy nearly got decapitated by a right uppercut from Tyson in the first round!

Regarding Enzo, I was listening to an old-ish boxing hour on the BBC with Buncey the other day and he was talking about the Frenkal fight. He said he made a mistake - that means I've heard that 3 times now. Against Swaby, Haye and now Frenkal. He seems a nice enough guy but he ain't half delusional. I'd bet that if someone whispered the Haye rematch in his ear then he'd really fancy his chances, up until he makes that dreaded mistake. I shouldn't really laugh, but you can't help it.

And I don't think he's going to retire.

Scottrf wrote:

Glyn Leach wrote:Rahman could be sold as the guy who KO'd Lennox

He was thought of as poor, managed to knock Lewis out and get spanked in a rematch and 10 years and lots of mediocrity later is being talked about as one of the more credible challengers for 'the Heavyweight Champion'.

Nobody's saying he'd be credible, but the unfortunate truth is that he'd be a better sell than most of the rest. Name value counts the most when it comes to the casual fan. Don't believe me? Look at Haye's last fight...

Of course I know that Oliver, I'm just saying he should be completely irrelevant by now.

oliverfennell wrote:

charlieb wrote:I've visited and exited this thread about 20 times now. I just can't find the words.

Relax. Vent your bile if the fight is actually signed, but for now it's nothing more than speculation.

It's not so much about venting. It's more about disappointment than anger. Booth was at the Palais de sports over the weekend 'exploring the possibility of a rematch'. What does that tell you?

It tells me that Booth's got absolutely no faith in his charge. Add that to the choice of Harrison previously and I'm left with only one conclusion, that the Klitschko fight is a cash-out fight for both trainer and fighter. They don't believe it's a fight they'll win.

That's disappointing.

Scottrf wrote:Of course I know that Oliver, I'm just saying he should be completely irrelevant by now.

Sure, he should be...

charlieb wrote:

oliverfennell wrote:

charlieb wrote:I've visited and exited this thread about 20 times now. I just can't find the words.

Relax. Vent your bile if the fight is actually signed, but for now it's nothing more than speculation.

It's not so much about venting. It's more about disappointment than anger. Booth was at the Palais de sports over the weekend 'exploring the possibility of a rematch'. What does that tell you?

It tells me that Booth's got absolutely no faith in his charge. Add that to the choice of Harrison previously and I'm left with the only one conclusion, that the Klitschko fight is a cash-out fight for both trainer and fighter. They don't believe it's a fight they'll win.

That's disappointing.

"Exploring the possibility" is a long way short of actually doing it. Any top level fighter probably "explores the possibility" of 5-10 opponents ahead of every non-mandated match.

Bunce has a column in the Independent today about the state of the heavyweight division and still seems to think it'll be Chagaev next

Glyn Leach wrote:

doctorboxing wrote:What about health risks for Haye?

If it is deemed unsafe for Chagaev to fight in the UK, then are our rules too strict or would David be putting himself at risk by agreeing to fight him in a country that will allow Ruslan to fight?

The fact that some jurisdictions say 'safe', others say 'not safe' suggests that Hepatitis is a grey area in terms of the risk it presents to opponents. Certainly, New York is another jurisdiction that views it as a danger, they scratched Holyfield-Akinwande at the last minute when Henry tested positive. Maybe the question shouldn't be whether Britain's rules are too strict but whether Germany's are too lax? Germany appears to be the odd one out here.

Yeah thats how it appears. I know that if several independent organisations ruled it unsafe for me to fight someone on the grounds of possible health risks then I wouldn't be trying to seek out jurisdictions that did allow me to fight, I would be appealing to the WBA to remove Chagaev from the mandatory position on safety grounds.

oliverfennell wrote:

charlieb wrote:

oliverfennell wrote: Relax. Vent your bile if the fight is actually signed, but for now it's nothing more than speculation.

It's not so much about venting. It's more about disappointment than anger. Booth was at the Palais de sports over the weekend 'exploring the possibility of a rematch'. What does that tell you?

It tells me that Booth's got absolutely no faith in his charge. Add that to the choice of Harrison previously and I'm left with the only one conclusion, that the Klitschko fight is a cash-out fight for both trainer and fighter. They don't believe it's a fight they'll win.

That's disappointing.

"Exploring the possibility" is a long way short of actually doing it. Any top level fighter probably "explores the possibility" of 5-10 opponents ahead of every non-mandated match.

Obviously.

If I had a modicum of faith in a worthy opponent actually being sought, I'd be less inclined to think the worst. I've played devil's advocate in Haye's defence plenty of times in the past and the well's dry.

bingo am starting to feel that way also.

perhaps the stories of him being a changed man to a self loving overhyped prima donna are true.

I hope not but im starting to wonder. Been a big fan of david for manty years but im losing faith...