BoxRec

Seamus wrote:Who fits that category ? In my opinion, the first names that come to mind.

1.Mike Tyson. Before his first loss, fans and even sports writers and commentators were saying things about him that bordered on the ridiculous. Now days the comments have gotten equally ridiculous in light of the names of fighters tossed around allegedly capable of beating Iron Mike.

2.Roy Jones Jr. Back in the 90's he had a sizeable number of supporters who believed he was too fast for just about anyone in history. Nowdays it's become common to make the argument that all you really had to do was hit him solid and he'd fold.

3.Julio Cesar Chavez. When he was unbeaten, I was actually hearing claims that he may be the greatest fighter ever. OK, alot of those people were Mexicans, but it was still a stretch for the imagination. Nowdays, the lists of fighters supposedly better than Julio has also gotten to be a stretch for the imagination.

4.Donald Curry. Sportwriters went insane over this guy during his short prime, but since then he's been written off to the point that alot of guys have completely forgotten that he was briefly an outstanding welterweight who would have been a handful for a long list of fighters.

In the vice versa category
1.Jersey Joe Walcott. Didn't seem to get much credit when I first started following boxing, but today he's been downright overrated.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Pernell Whitaker not a legend?

Figure that one. Alp, c'mon. You are kidding.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Whitaker was significantly greater than Benitez.

Ambling Alp wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Pernell Whitaker not a legend?

Figure that one. Alp, c'mon. You are kidding.

No, I am not kidding. I am not saying he was some stiff or something. He was a great fighter. However, there are guys who get less attention that were equal to or better than him. Take Wilfred Benitez. Whitaker was no better than him and I doubt many would consider Benitez a legend.
To me a legend is beyond being a great fighter.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Whitaker was significantly greater than Benitez.

& in the same discussion for greatness as Leonard, for what it's worth.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Pernell Whitaker not a legend?

Figure that one. Alp, c'mon. You are kidding.

No, I am not kidding. I am not saying he was some stiff or something. He was a great fighter. However, there are guys who get less attention that were equal to or better than him. Take Wilfred Benitez. Whitaker was no better than him and I doubt many would consider Benitez a legend.
To me a legend is beyond being a great fighter.

Also true of Leonard.

Also true of Ali.

Also true of any fighter.

The Great John L wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I guess Joe Louis should be ranked the fourth or fifth best HW ever. That's all his level of opposition merits, since that's purely our basis for assessment now.

Hmmm, let's see. Louis beat Schmeling, Sharkey, Baer (both of them), Carnera, Uzcudun, Braddock, Pastor, Conn, Godoy, Walcott... Forget it, this is going to take too long.

I know those guys aren't exactly Luis Pires and Miguel Paez, but they were all pretty good.

Ambling Alp wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote: No, I am not kidding. I am not saying he was some stiff or something. He was a great fighter. However, there are guys who get less attention that were equal to or better than him. Take Wilfred Benitez. Whitaker was no better than him and I doubt many would consider Benitez a legend.
To me a legend is beyond being a great fighter.

Also true of Leonard.

Also true of Ali.

Also true of any fighter.

Shocking that Ali and Leonard are brought up.
Their careers are far superior to Pernell Whitaker. Leonard beat 4 fighters that were better than anyone Whitaker beat. Even if you count Chavez, Whitaker still is far behind.
Benitez has wins over Duran ,Cervantes, Paloimino. That is pretty comparble if not better than Whitaker.
Leonard was phenomenal offensive fighter and very good defensive fighter.
Whitaker was a phenomenal offensive fighter (like Benitez) but was a very ordinary offensive fighter. (like Benitez)

The Great John L wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I guess Joe Louis should be ranked the fourth or fifth best HW ever. That's all his level of opposition merits, since that's purely our basis for assessment now.

Hmmm, let's see. Louis beat Schmeling, Sharkey, Baer (both of them), Carnera, Uzcudun, Braddock, Pastor, Conn, Godoy, Walcott... Forget it, this is going to take too long.

I know those guys aren't exactly Luis Pires and Miguel Paez, but they were all pretty good.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ambling Alp wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote: Also true of Leonard.

Also true of Ali.

Also true of any fighter.

Shocking that Ali and Leonard are brought up.
Their careers are far superior to Pernell Whitaker. Leonard beat 4 fighters that were better than anyone Whitaker beat. Even if you count Chavez, Whitaker still is far behind.
Benitez has wins over Duran ,Cervantes, Paloimino. That is pretty comparble if not better than Whitaker.
Leonard was phenomenal offensive fighter and very good defensive fighter.
Whitaker was a phenomenal offensive fighter (like Benitez) but was a very ordinary offensive fighter. (like Benitez)

A classic, amateurish example of Whitaker's offense being assessed purely on power. Alp, you do not understand how great Whitaker was at all. Not at all.

Ambling Alp wrote:I'm guessing you are referring to Rahman Ali, Muhammad's brother. Otherwise that may be the dumbest comment ever on the Forum.

Whitaker's offense is not remotely close to Muhammad Ali's offense. Ali threw a lot more punches, and was more accurrate. For a heavyweight, (in hsi prime) Ali had better hand speed. Ali put combinations better than almost anyone; certainly better than Pernell Whitaker.

Ali was no brutal puncher, but he had some power. He stopped and hurt some guys with very good chins. Whitaker had virtually no power at all.