BoxRec

I actually like the infamous smiley-face with glasses . . .brightens my day 8)

dempseyfire wrote:I actually like the infamous smiley-face with glasses . . .brightens my day 8)

ME T 8) 8)

1. Holmes
2. Lewis
3. Holyfield
4. Tyson
5. Bowe
6. V.Klitschko
7. W.Klitschko
8. Witherspoon
9. Moorer
10. Douglas

Just to throw a name out there: Oliver McCall, not a great name not top ten material but i was just surprised that he isn't mentioned at all not even in the top 25 list.
McCall beat Seldon, Damiani, Ferguson, Lewis, Holmes, Akinwinde and from what i understand he couldn't be knocked out, I think you could make the case that he should be on the list.

and just a question are you rating fighters on accomplishments or boxingquality? just seems a bit twisted in the Bowe vs Vitali debate.

I assumed it was accomplishments, but Bowe ranks over Vitali any way you want to rate them.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I assumed it was accomplishments, but Bowe ranks over Vitali any way you want to rate them.

He rates above Bowe on title defences.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I assumed it was accomplishments, but Bowe ranks over Vitali any way you want to rate them.

He rates above Bowe on title defences.

Unlike Vitali though, Bowe was the legitimate HW Champion of the world.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I assumed it was accomplishments, but Bowe ranks over Vitali any way you want to rate them.

He rates above Bowe on title defences.

Unlike Vitali though, Bowe was the legitimate HW Champion of the world.

There was nothing legitimate about his cowardly avoidance of Lennox Lewis.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: He rates above Bowe on title defences.

Unlike Vitali though, Bowe was the legitimate HW Champion of the world.

There was nothing legitimate about his cowardly avoidance of Lennox Lewis.

Not the point, or the issue. Bowe was Champion in the legitimate sense. Vitali never has been.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote: Unlike Vitali though, Bowe was the legitimate HW Champion of the world.

There was nothing legitimate about his cowardly avoidance of Lennox Lewis.

Not the point, or the issue. Bowe was Champion in the legitimate sense. Vitali never has been.

That doesn't mean that he rates higher. Vitali is a better fighter, has beaten more top 10 opponents and would butcher Bowe in a fight.

Ezzard wrote:Okay, I'm a Brit so nobody is going to listen to me on this one but...

Herbie Hide was boxing well against both men until they hit his chin. I seem to remember he wobbled Bowe.

He certainly did wobble Bowe; more than once too.

Herbie was a brute of a puncher for such a small guy.

Riddick Bowe admitted that Herbie was the hardest hitter he'd ever faced.

1. Holmes
2. Holyfield
3. Lewis
4. Tyson
5. Bowe
6. Spinks
7. Witherspoon
8. Berbick
9. Thomas
10. Dokes
11. Page
12. Douglas
13. Tucker
14. Weaver
15. Tate
16. Coetzee
17. Mercer
18. Bruno
19. W. Klitschko
20. V. Klitschko

Big gap between #5 and # 6. Most of the titlists are very close and almost interchangeable.

"That doesn't mean that he rates higher. Vitali is a better fighter, has beaten more top 10 opponents and would butcher Bowe in a fight." - Keith

I never said anything about who should rank higher. I simply wanted to point out that, "more title defenses," don't mean much if it's never been the legit HW crown you're defending.

As for Vitali, "butchering," a prime Bowe, let me know when he ever beats anyone breathing, & then we'll entertain that notion

keithmoonhangover wrote:
Vitali is a better fighter, has beaten more top 10 opponents and would butcher Bowe in a fight.

"Vitali is a better fighter"

Wow!!! you really beleive that?


"has beaten more top 10 opponents "

Just one question, who excatly are those top ten opponents?

"would butcher Bowe in a fight"

An out of shape past his prime Lewis beat him to a pulp and Vitali is going to butcher Bowe?

Idisagree wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:
Vitali is a better fighter, has beaten more top 10 opponents and would butcher Bowe in a fight.

"Vitali is a better fighter"

Wow!!! you really beleive that?


"has beaten more top 10 opponents "

Just one question, who excatly are those top ten opponents?

"would butcher Bowe in a fight"

An out of shape past his prime Lewis beat him to a pulp and Vitali is going to butcher Bowe?

I don't think Bowe should be ranked under Vitali not on accomplishments because beating Holyfield twice and being a legit champion is alot better than anything Vitali has done, as fighters i guess you could argue Vitali would beat Bowe I would pick Bowe tough.

Vitali does face top ten oponents they are the top in this era and Vitali doesn't seem to be ducking anyone, they would probably not have been top ten in many other eras but they are what we got.

and as for Lewis beating Vitali to a pulp, yes the cut was bad but wasn't Vitali controling Lewis quite good until the stopage?

Thunder and Lightning wrote:

Idisagree wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:
Vitali is a better fighter, has beaten more top 10 opponents and would butcher Bowe in a fight.

"Vitali is a better fighter"

Wow!!! you really beleive that?


"has beaten more top 10 opponents "

Just one question, who excatly are those top ten opponents?

"would butcher Bowe in a fight"

An out of shape past his prime Lewis beat him to a pulp and Vitali is going to butcher Bowe?

I don't think Bowe should be ranked under Vitali not on accomplishments because beating Holyfield twice and being a legit champion is alot better than anything Vitali has done, as fighters i guess you could argue Vitali would beat Bowe I would pick Bowe tough.

Vitali does face top ten oponents they are the top in this era and Vitali doesn't seem to be ducking anyone, they would probably not have been top ten in many other eras but they are what we got.

and as for Lewis beating Vitali to a pulp, yes the cut was bad but wasn't Vitali controling Lewis quite good until the stopage?

He had been early on. He'd stopped doing as much by the time Lewis had him unrecognisable.

I accept Lennox was out of shape and unfocused for Rahman. I don't see any evidence for this against Vitali. Lennox was old. I have no evidence of him being out of shape etc... I'm interested though if anyone has the evidence.

It would have been very easy for Lennox to have built up an immedaie rematch and walked away with an easy defence and a suitcase of money. He retired instead. Lennox was no fool.

Ezzard wrote:I accept Lennox was out of shape and unfocused for Rahman. I don't see any evidence for this against Vitali. Lennox was old. I have no evidence of him being out of shape etc... I'm interested though if anyone has the evidence.

It would have been very easy for Lennox to have built up an immedaie rematch and walked away with an easy defence and a suitcase of money. He retired instead. Lennox was no fool.

Lennox retired because it was clear he did not have the passion/fire for boxing anymore. He looked quite uninterested in the Vitali fight, and correct me if I'm wrong but there wasn't Lewis filming a movie just before the fight? They were talking about Lewis spending more time filming the movie than training.

Vitali won the first few rounds but when Lewis realize that he was falling behind he step up and started connecting the better punches of the fight and beating Vitali quite clear. If the fight would have went the distance I'll bet Lewis would have taken the decision too. The Lewis that beat Rachman in the rematch would have stopped Vitali way sooner in my opinion.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Thunder and Lightning wrote:

Idisagree wrote:
"Vitali is a better fighter"

Wow!!! you really beleive that?


"has beaten more top 10 opponents "

Just one question, who excatly are those top ten opponents?

"would butcher Bowe in a fight"

An out of shape past his prime Lewis beat him to a pulp and Vitali is going to butcher Bowe?

I don't think Bowe should be ranked under Vitali not on accomplishments because beating Holyfield twice and being a legit champion is alot better than anything Vitali has done, as fighters i guess you could argue Vitali would beat Bowe I would pick Bowe tough.

Vitali does face top ten oponents they are the top in this era and Vitali doesn't seem to be ducking anyone, they would probably not have been top ten in many other eras but they are what we got.

and as for Lewis beating Vitali to a pulp, yes the cut was bad but wasn't Vitali controling Lewis quite good until the stopage?

He had been early on. He'd stopped doing as much by the time Lewis had him unrecognisable.

Vitali did win the first few rounds but Lewis adjusted and he was the one controlling the fight just before the stoppage. Lewis prove to me at least that he was the better fighter that night. Lewis just had this look like he was not into the fight at the beginning but then he looked focus and started to beat Vitali quite clear. Lewis would have won either in the end.

Ezzard wrote:I accept Lennox was out of shape and unfocused for Rahman. I don't see any evidence for this against Vitali. Lennox was old. I have no evidence of him being out of shape etc... I'm interested though if anyone has the evidence.

It would have been very easy for Lennox to have built up an immedaie rematch and walked away with an easy defence and a suitcase of money. He retired instead. Lennox was no fool.

It was the heaviest he has ever been for a fight, is that evidence? 3 pounds more than he was against Rahman. He was also training to fight a beached whale in Kirk Johnson until a week or two before the fight. That certainly isn't Vitali's fault, but fat, old and unfocused is exactly what Lennox was that night.

Lewis
Holyfield
Tyson
Holmes
Bowe
Witherspoon
Spinks
Tucker
V.Klit
W.Klit
Thomas
Dokes
Ibeabuchi :P

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: There was nothing legitimate about his cowardly avoidance of Lennox Lewis.

Not the point, or the issue. Bowe was Champion in the legitimate sense. Vitali never has been.

That doesn't mean that he rates higher. Vitali is a better fighter, has beaten more top 10 opponents and would butcher Bowe in a fight.

That's highly debatable mate, Bowe was clearly a league above terms of skill, Vitali throws the jab and the straight right, and holds, Bowe could do a lot more.

At least two leagues above Vitaly.

Bowe could do literally everything better than Klitschko and had more heart.

Vitali beat no one worth mentioning. Bowe beat a prime Evander Holyfield.
Vitali couldn't even go the distance Chris Byrd and a woefully out of shape Lennox Lewis.
Bowe's only loss was a very close decison (that could have gone his way or been a draw.) to a prime Holyfield.

This isn't even remotely close.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ezzard wrote:I accept Lennox was out of shape and unfocused for Rahman. I don't see any evidence for this against Vitali. Lennox was old. I have no evidence of him being out of shape etc... I'm interested though if anyone has the evidence.

It would have been very easy for Lennox to have built up an immedaie rematch and walked away with an easy defence and a suitcase of money. He retired instead. Lennox was no fool.

It was the heaviest he has ever been for a fight, is that evidence? 3 pounds more than he was against Rahman. He was also training to fight a beached whale in Kirk Johnson until a week or two before the fight. That certainly isn't Vitali's fault, but fat, old and unfocused is exactly what Lennox was that night.

Fair enough. I do believe that Lewis's was the big factor.

I'd have backed Vitali in a rematch with a focused Lewis at that point in his career.

There are a lot people saying that Bowe fought beat better fighters. Correction, he beat ONE better fighter - Holyfield. I thought he lost to Tubbs and would have lost to Golota had it not been for the DQ's. Jesse Ferguson and Michael Dokes? Give me a break. Back to back farces, what a legacy to be proud of.

All the Bowe lovers admit that Bowe ducked Lewis, but don't knock his rating because of it. Lewis would have stopped him inside four rounds. Bowe was a disgrace.