BoxRec

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Oh it does get me going when fighters get narked and say just because one of us may have not laced a glove on we can't have an opinion. (I have by the way and wasn't much cop and it was bloody hard but had a go).

Does that mean fighters who are shit at football or don't play the game don't criticise their team when they're playing shit. Do me a favour. And I'll say it, Derry Matthews – good fighter and a warrior no doubt – but former world champion my ass.

Anway, it was the WBU belt that was being poked at, not the fighter.

I know and i agreed before,listen the WBU WORLD title i'm sure will look lovely next to derrys numerous GOLD medals including an olympic JUNIOR GOLD,his JUNIOR ABA title his SCHOOLBOYS title his NABC title his SENIOR ABA title his ENGLISH PRO title and his IBO INTER title.i could go on and on but in liverpool he was a WORLD CHAMP regardless.

boxingfarmer30 wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:

Dioufy wrote:Derry, mate. You have the wrong end of the stick, and a problem in making funny jokes. I said it was wrong to call you a world champion - winning the WBU belt is an achievement, but answer this, do you call yourself a former world champion? Because I don't, and I'd guess more that 99% of this forum concur.

Jeez.

I agree.

I'm happy to call the holders of the 4 major belts world champions, but i can't be recognising the WBU, WBF, IBC, IBO, etc etc......where does it end?

But in all reality educated boxing fans know who the true best fighters are. The true world leaders no matter what trinket they hold or not. Its a shame that the likes of SKY are happy to compromise the sports integrity by misleading the casual fans, but they've been doing it for years and won't be stopping anytime soon.

Derry was(possibly still is) an accomplished fighter who achieved some very notable things in his career, but he wasn't a true world champion and anybody who'd argue he was would be being extremely hypocritical. We ALL hate that there are about a million different versions of the 'world' title, but are some people now happy to recognise one these minor titles just because Derry was a holder?

This isn't about denying Derry his glory, its just being truthful about the real facts. I understand that fighters who win minor world titles are of course going to be immensely proud of the achievement, but lets have it right now and lets be honest.

I agree with what your saying but as a former pro my self who never won any titles the WBU title would to me of felt like a world title as it did for Neary,Ward,culshaw,burke,hatton so on and so on so to try and discredit it in the way some people who have probably never laced a glove up is a tad out of order.In our city Derry mathews was a world champ as was previous mentioned . derry will always have people knocking him,more likely peoples friends who he's taken to school in his career but rest assured he's still around and will one day hopefully win a euro title and then WHO knows.
.

I completely understand where you're coming from mate, this is a delicate topic and its easy to offend folk.....No doubt on a personal level no question a minor world title naturally means everything to the fighters you mention. I myself was an amateur county and NABC West Mids champ and those minor achievements means a great deal to me personally. I toyed with the idea of going pro plenty of times and an area title would have been massive to me on a personal level.

But i'm just trying to keep things in perspective and though Derry held a WBU strap, he's not going to be remembered as a world champ in the big scheme of things, in the same way as a Hatton will be for instance. And i really don't think anyone would argue against that view....so then we get a situation of there being different levels of world champ which makes a mockery of the whole term world champ. Its bad enough with 4 major titles, so to start recognising even more belts as bone fide world titles only makes the problem even worse.

Thats my point, certainly not trying to rob Derry of his personal glory. He's had a very credible career and can feel proud of his accomplishments....and who knows maybe there is more to come as you say.

veriton wrote:the wbu title is an embarrassment, and no boxer should be proud of ''winning'' it. it's utter garbage and good fighters cheapen themselves by boxing for these worthless pieces of crap.

winning a wbu belt doesn't make anyone a world champion, just makes them a wbu champ which translates as ''i'm not good enough to win a real belt so i'll take the snide route and maybe i will be able to pass it off to people who don't follow the sport.''

we all know the real belts.

Good fighters make more money fighting for one of these useless baubles than a 10-rounder. Simple as that. It gets them on Sky and a bigger payday. At the end of the day it's about money.

boxingfarmer30 wrote:

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Oh it does get me going when fighters get narked and say just because one of us may have not laced a glove on we can't have an opinion. (I have by the way and wasn't much cop and it was bloody hard but had a go).

Does that mean fighters who are shit at football or don't play the game don't criticise their team when they're playing shit. Do me a favour. And I'll say it, Derry Matthews – good fighter and a warrior no doubt – but former world champion my ass.

Anway, it was the WBU belt that was being poked at, not the fighter.

I know and i agreed before,listen the WBU WORLD title i'm sure will look lovely next to derrys numerous GOLD medals including an olympic JUNIOR GOLD,his JUNIOR ABA title his SCHOOLBOYS title his NABC title his SENIOR ABA title his ENGLISH PRO title and his IBO INTER title.i could go on and on but in liverpool he was a WORLD CHAMP regardless.

I know i said if id won a world title id tell all my mates i was champion of the world...But Derry knows himself what it means the WBU...He has never been a top 30 fighter in the world&he knows that!! Take nothing away from the lad,id give my right arm to have acheived just a small amount of his success what he has done..Derry is a good domestic fighter at best

DIRT SUGAR wrote:

veriton wrote:the wbu title is an embarrassment, and no boxer should be proud of ''winning'' it. it's utter garbage and good fighters cheapen themselves by boxing for these worthless pieces of crap.

winning a wbu belt doesn't make anyone a world champion, just makes them a wbu champ which translates as ''i'm not good enough to win a real belt so i'll take the snide route and maybe i will be able to pass it off to people who don't follow the sport.''

we all know the real belts.

Good fighters make more money fighting for one of these useless baubles than a 10-rounder. Simple as that. It gets them on Sky and a bigger payday. At the end of the day it's about money.

It's not as simple as that though is it. These belts are the reason why boxing has fallen off the radar for most fans. People have to make a stand against them. Holding a WBU belt doesn't make you a world champion in any respect and it's a joke to claim otherwise. If that offends anyone's feelings then so be it.

veriton wrote:

DIRT SUGAR wrote:

veriton wrote:the wbu title is an embarrassment, and no boxer should be proud of ''winning'' it. it's utter garbage and good fighters cheapen themselves by boxing for these worthless pieces of crap.

winning a wbu belt doesn't make anyone a world champion, just makes them a wbu champ which translates as ''i'm not good enough to win a real belt so i'll take the snide route and maybe i will be able to pass it off to people who don't follow the sport.''

we all know the real belts.

Good fighters make more money fighting for one of these useless baubles than a 10-rounder. Simple as that. It gets them on Sky and a bigger payday. At the end of the day it's about money.

It's not as simple as that though is it. These belts are the reason why boxing has fallen off the radar for most fans. People have to make a stand against them. Holding a WBU belt doesn't make you a world champion in any respect and it's a joke to claim otherwise. If that offends anyone's feelings then so be it.

I disagree. I feel the reason boxing's fallen off the radar is because of lack of coverage on terrestrial TV, which makes it harder for fighters to cross over into the mainstream. Even so, boxing still has the ability to capture the public's imagination when a certain fight comes to fruition and is sold properly (Haye v Aud, not a great fight but was hyped properly), but it's always been the way that only a very small percentage of fighters make alot of money, ie, the cream of the crop.

These WBU/IBO belts have been a lifesaver for the lads struggling away on undercards for a busy promoter like FW for example and have given the opportunity to get their chance in the limelight. I mean, back in the days of Eubank/Benn/Watson, who else got a look-in?

Of course the proliferation of governing bodies has muddied the waters I agree but I think the reason why boxing doesn't appeal to the man on the street so much is that he doesn't get to see it unless he has Sky. They might say 'I don't know what belt it was for' but a good fight's a good fight to a non-fan who happens to catch it and enjoy it, irrelevant of what second-rate plastic trinket it's for. Vice-versa, for the die-hard fan, if it's a well-matched fight between a couple of two fringe contenders or decent domestic lads, we know it's not for a proper world title but will watch it anyway.

What is making things hard for boxing at the moment is the likes of Haye and Klitschko and Pacquaio and Mayweather being unable to get around the table and make the big fights happen. That's what's hurting boxing most right now.

Tommy Gunn13 wrote:

boxingfarmer30 wrote:

DIRT SUGAR wrote:Oh it does get me going when fighters get narked and say just because one of us may have not laced a glove on we can't have an opinion. (I have by the way and wasn't much cop and it was bloody hard but had a go).

Does that mean fighters who are shit at football or don't play the game don't criticise their team when they're playing shit. Do me a favour. And I'll say it, Derry Matthews – good fighter and a warrior no doubt – but former world champion my ass.

Anway, it was the WBU belt that was being poked at, not the fighter.

I know and i agreed before,listen the WBU WORLD title i'm sure will look lovely next to derrys numerous GOLD medals including an olympic JUNIOR GOLD,his JUNIOR ABA title his SCHOOLBOYS title his NABC title his SENIOR ABA title his ENGLISH PRO title and his IBO INTER title.i could go on and on but in liverpool he was a WORLD CHAMP regardless.

I know i said if id won a world title id tell all my mates i was champion of the world...But Derry knows himself what it means the WBU...He has never been a top 30 fighter in the world&he knows that!! Take nothing away from the lad,id give my right arm to have acheived just a small amount of his success what he has done..Derry is a good domestic fighter at best

i was ranked 6 in the world by other govening boddies in , and got 2 number 8 by the main one wbc , proves how much u no pal

derry wrote:

Tommy Gunn13 wrote:

boxingfarmer30 wrote: I know and i agreed before,listen the WBU WORLD title i'm sure will look lovely next to derrys numerous GOLD medals including an olympic JUNIOR GOLD,his JUNIOR ABA title his SCHOOLBOYS title his NABC title his SENIOR ABA title his ENGLISH PRO title and his IBO INTER title.i could go on and on but in liverpool he was a WORLD CHAMP regardless.

I know i said if id won a world title id tell all my mates i was champion of the world...But Derry knows himself what it means the WBU...He has never been a top 30 fighter in the world&he knows that!! Take nothing away from the lad,id give my right arm to have acheived just a small amount of his success what he has done..Derry is a good domestic fighter at best

i was ranked 6 in the world by other govening boddies in , and got 2 number 8 by the main one wbc , proves how much u no pal

Hang on a minute Derry,i wasnt slating u any way shape or form chap...as i said id be well chuffed to even win a tiny bit of what u had won....your never in your pro career been a top 30 fighter(world)in my eyes or a lot of peoples i reckon...ok you say you was ranked this or that at some time by governing bodies,who im i to disagree?? Your a good domestic level fighter at best(my opinion) whos the best fighter your beaten other than british?? please dont take it to heart,your a good fighter,but EVER world class...No Way!!

I class myself as former 2 time WBU champion! Not a world champion. 

Arnie wrote:I class myself as former 2 time WBU champion! Not a world champion. 

Top Man

Arnie wrote:I class myself as former 2 time WBU champion! Not a world champion. 

Read my previous threads,it;s a matter of opinion.My arguement is in liverpool Derry was a world champ,ask anyone and if Derry considers him self one then so be it why would anyone try and deny the lad.Any way as previously stated Derry is a work in progress and still has mileage in the tank so get behind him.

derry wrote:i was ranked 6 in the world by other govening boddies in , and got 2 number 8 by the main one wbc , proves how much u no pal

You are a top level domestic fighter Derry and I wish you ever success in the future.

However, you were never really close to being best in the world at your weight(s) and I am sure you know that. I am also quite sure that you never kidded yourself that your WBU title meant that you were.

This is in no way a slight on you as I am a fan and rate you highly. I just find the WBU and other such belts to be detrimental to the sport I love.

Arnie wrote:I class myself as former 2 time WBU champion! Not a world champion. 

Thats a class response....all credit for that.

Yeah fair play Arnie and the WBU title must've been a good opportunity to earn a few quid more than for routine 10-rounders and dare I say, even the British title.

All these fake titles have diluted our sport.
They should ban the WBC WBF IBC IBO IBA IBF WBA WBU WBO and the W..Who gives a fuk.
Jose Suliman can fuk right off with all thise 'Silver Titles" also
We need a worldwide governing body.

If the sport dies it will be because of all these clowns.
1 Champ per weight or nothing else.

It disgusts me acutally