BoxRec

doctorboxing wrote:

Jon saxon wrote: Wankweather.

Mods, can I please report this internet bullying of poor Floyd. We as a race must move beyond this.

Sorry you are right, it's my spelling you see..."Sigmund Fraud Wankweather"
Silly me :)

Do you not realise that there is a report button on PM's. If you don't like it, report it.

Jon Saxon wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
My point was mate that at the highest (and by highest level) the style gets found out (Hamed v Barrera, Graham v McCallum, Kalumby) and no one on here had the bottle to say what others in the media (Like Barry McQuigan, Ian Darke, Larry Merchant, Colin heart etc etc all said that the lack of pure technique would get found out)

So when Ian gets all uppity regarding my questions of the forums agenda I will always be able to point to this post as an example of no one stepping up and backing up the truth for fear of upsseting a bunch of friends and proffesional acquaintances.

But the flipside Jon is that you can make a strong case for saying that if some of the Ingle fighters had adopted a more conventional style they wouldn't have reached the level they did.
Just because you can say Hatton or Hodkinson or Woodhall got "found out" (hate that phrase anyway) at the highest level does that mean their more conventional styles are fundamentally flawed as well?

Very good post,

Hatton? never thought he was very good to watch ugly ugly infighting style, always wondered how he got away the low hand
Woodhall? the perferct amatuer style, tall jabber, great for computer scoring, hated watching Keith Holmes beat him, was gutted actully.
terrible British style though, kida like Robert McKracken also, stan up tough men but BORING as fuk.
Hodkinson? Goyo Vargas would have beaten any fighter on that night but Hoko was a solid wee guy (skills wise).

My point only Hatton who was the only one out of the 3 fought the very best IMO (PacMan & Wankweather) and got found out, by found out I mean the gulf in class was unreal and Hattons style was flawed IMO.

He did well to hustle his way late into the Mayweather fight though.

Sure - don't want you to get hung up on the specific individuals though as they were only examples plucked at random. My main point was simply that it's too simplistic to dismiss the Ingle approach en masse as for every case of them being 'found out', you can make a case that the Ingle style actually led to others over-achieving rather than under-achieving. Johnny Nelson's probably a case in point.
I think in very simple terms, you have to accept that boxers are individuals and as such there's no one hard and fast rule regarding the efficiency of a style or not - it will depend on that person - to use a couple of extreme examples, teaching Vlad K to fight peek-a-boo style a la Tyson doesn't strike me as the most sensible of approaches. Equally, trying to turn a fighter like Sven Ottke into a Benn-style puncher probably isn't going to get the best out of him either

Deserter wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

Deserter wrote: But the flipside Jon is that you can make a strong case for saying that if some of the Ingle fighters had adopted a more conventional style they wouldn't have reached the level they did.
Just because you can say Hatton or Hodkinson or Woodhall got "found out" (hate that phrase anyway) at the highest level does that mean their more conventional styles are fundamentally flawed as well?

Very good post,

Hatton? never thought he was very good to watch ugly ugly infighting style, always wondered how he got away the low hand
Woodhall? the perferct amatuer style, tall jabber, great for computer scoring, hated watching Keith Holmes beat him, was gutted actully.
terrible British style though, kida like Robert McKracken also, stan up tough men but BORING as fuk.
Hodkinson? Goyo Vargas would have beaten any fighter on that night but Hoko was a solid wee guy (skills wise).

My point only Hatton who was the only one out of the 3 fought the very best IMO (PacMan & Wankweather) and got found out, by found out I mean the gulf in class was unreal and Hattons style was flawed IMO.

He did well to hustle his way late into the Mayweather fight though.

Sure - don't want you to get hung up on the specific individuals though as they were only examples plucked at random. My main point was simply that it's too simplistic to dismiss the Ingle approach en masse as for every case of them being 'found out', you can make a case that the Ingle style actually led to others over-achieving rather than under-achieving. Johnny Nelson's probably a case in point.
I think in very simple terms, you have to accept that boxers are individuals and as such there's no one hard and fast rule regarding the efficiency of a style or not - it will depend on that person - to use a couple of extreme examples, teaching Vlad K to fight peek-a-boo style a la Tyson doesn't strike me as the most sensible of approaches. Equally, trying to turn a fighter like Sven Ottke into a Benn-style puncher probably isn't going to get the best out of him either

I hear ya amd I respect your opinion but "protect yourself at all times"...keep your hands up!!!

cheers mate

Jon Saxon wrote:keep your hands up!!!

And I hear you, but I've just got two words for you in response.... John Murray

Come on guys, this is a Boxing Forum. A place for us to have a debate on fights, fighters, the Boxing World, etc. Let's keep it Strictly at that.

For what its worth, I wouldn't give a damn if someone threatened me over an internet forum or sent me a threatening PM. In fact, my reply would be something like: "Ok, in light of you threatening me, would you like my Address so you can come see me in person?"

BOXREC is still The Business!

Rocky Balboa wrote:Come on guys, this is a Boxing Forum. A place for us to have a debate on fights, fighters, the Boxing World, etc. Let's keep it Strictly at that.

For what its worth, I wouldn't give a damn if someone threatened me over an internet forum or sent me a threatening PM. In fact, my reply would be something like: "Ok, in light of you threatening me, would you like my Address so you can come see me in person?"

BOXREC is still The Business!

Hey Rocky we had already moved on mate.

this forum is good as long as they ban fools.

Deserter wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:keep your hands up!!!

And I hear you, but I've just got two words for you in response.... John Murray

Jon Saxon wrote:

addi wrote:aside all the other stuff the post was about the wincobank style now i'm not that keen on that style myself with the exception of herrol graham and hamed who both were top top fighters and in lots of good fights and really understud the switch hitting style,if your right handed then fight southpaw so your jabs your best punch is also part of it and of course elusiveness, but the list of champions that have come out of that gym is pretty impresive and obviously it works, allthough not everyones cup of tea. speaking of which i'm of for a brew and some cake.

My point was mate that at the highest (and by highest level) the style gets found out (Hamed v Barrera, Graham v McCallum, Kalumby) and no one on here had the bottle to say what others in the media (Like Barry McQuigan, Ian Darke, Larry Merchant, Colin heart etc etc all said that the lack of pure technique would get found out)

So when Ian gets all uppity regarding my questions of the forums agenda I will always be able to point to this post as an example of no one stepping up and backing up the truth for fear of upsseting a bunch of friends and proffesional acquaintances.

I dont think it is as simple as that, to just regard the ingle gym as ultimately flawed. Looked at in that way you could say that every boxing gym has its own personal flaws one way or the other. Ive followed boxing for over 30 years right back to herol grahams early years and if anything I think brendan and his methods have been largely underrated and disparraged in the media and amongst fans over the years. Having said that I agree that the 'ingle style' has a weakness/flaw that can be found out at the higher levels, but I also believe that the style allows fighters of otherwise modest natural skills to reach heights which they probably wouldnt otherwise reach fighting in an orthadox manner. To measure a gyms success just by how many of their boxers reach the 'elite' level is not the true test of a gyms success imo. Gyms like the ingles does a lot of good getting kids off the streets and away from bad influences, and a young man (or even not so young man) can gain a lot there in regard of fitness, focus and selfconfidence simply by training there, so I think we should all largely support these places overall rather than obsess about flaws etc. This is not to say we shouldnt criticise but like I said earlier all gyms have flaws. All in all though the ingle gym has a pretty good track record imo.
Regarding the bullying jon I think the best thing to do with bullies is name them and laugh at them rather than expect the mods on here to fight your battles for you.
Funnily enough I was down in sheffeild some years back when I had more hair when a young lass offered to show me her book collection, ofcourse I made my excuses and got the first train home. Better safe than sorry eh!.

fatcity69 wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

addi wrote:aside all the other stuff the post was about the wincobank style now i'm not that keen on that style myself with the exception of herrol graham and hamed who both were top top fighters and in lots of good fights and really understud the switch hitting style,if your right handed then fight southpaw so your jabs your best punch is also part of it and of course elusiveness, but the list of champions that have come out of that gym is pretty impresive and obviously it works, allthough not everyones cup of tea. speaking of which i'm of for a brew and some cake.

My point was mate that at the highest (and by highest level) the style gets found out (Hamed v Barrera, Graham v McCallum, Kalumby) and no one on here had the bottle to say what others in the media (Like Barry McQuigan, Ian Darke, Larry Merchant, Colin heart etc etc all said that the lack of pure technique would get found out)

So when Ian gets all uppity regarding my questions of the forums agenda I will always be able to point to this post as an example of no one stepping up and backing up the truth for fear of upsseting a bunch of friends and proffesional acquaintances.

I dont think it is as simple as that, to just regard the ingle gym as ultimately flawed. Looked at in that way you could say that every boxing gym has its own personal flaws one way or the other. Ive followed boxing for over 30 years right back to herol grahams early years and if anything I think brendan and his methods have been largely underrated and disparraged in the media and amongst fans over the years. Having said that I agree that the 'ingle style' has a weakness/flaw that can be found out at the higher levels, but I also believe that the style allows fighters of otherwise modest natural skills to reach heights which they probably wouldnt otherwise reach fighting in an orthadox manner. To measure a gyms success just by how many of their boxers reach the 'elite' level is not the true test of a gyms success imo. Gyms like the ingles does a lot of good getting kids off the streets and away from bad influences, and a young man (or even not so young man) can gain a lot there in regard of fitness, focus and selfconfidence simply by training there, so I think we should all largely support these places overall rather than obsess about flaws etc. This is not to say we shouldnt criticise but like I said earlier all gyms have flaws. All in all though the ingle gym has a pretty good track record imo.
Regarding the bullying jon I think the best thing to do with bullies is name them and laugh at them rather than expect the mods on here to fight your battles for you.
Funnily enough I was down in sheffeild some years back when I had more hair when a young lass offered to show me her book collection, ofcourse I made my excuses and got the first train home. Better safe than sorry eh!.

Yes to everything you wrote.

Ps I would have had my head right into that "book collection"

With hindssight I agree regarding her books! but alas I had left my glasses at home!... D :geek2:

I did warn you against bashing the wasp's nest John

Personally speaking, this site is very good. It has quite a bit of traffic, lots of passionate and knowledgable posters, but you will always get people who troll and make empty threats. I have found that the Law or Asterix are very good at fixing things if you give them enough time. The Law is a good guy, who is very fair and balanced in his viewpoints of situations and i have had some big arguments with him in the past about certain issues, but he has always been willing to take some flak and never gives a knee jerk decision on anything. I'm positive that he will deal with this situation as quickly as he can do.

John, you have to remember that this is the internet and on a topic like boxing, things will get heated, the piss will be taken and you will get bored individuals trying to wind you up to get a reaction. We aren't discussing poetry on here, its a tough physical sport that divides opinion and thrives on debates being animated and a bit heated at times. As for the posters from Sheffield, there are some really good guys. Twenty Six is a top man, who ive spoken to on here many times and is a good poster and there are many more like him, who would never be offended over comments about Ryan Rhodes or the Ingle gym, just maybe a tad sensitive if they felt that your opinions were very wide of the mark.

On the Ingle style, overall it has been very succcesfull, but eavh individual boxer has his own limits and the style is adopted to suit there own particular style. Anderson, Graham, Nelson and Hamed all had different styles, but the fundamentals were very similar to each other. It could be argued that Graham and Hamed abandoned their styles against Macallum and Barrera, Herol was more aggressive than usual and Hamed has come to rely soley on his punch power. I also believe that neither were at the Ingle gym when those defeats happenned. As for Ryan Rhodes, i don't think he bottled it, but he felt the power of his oppenent and was wise to not get into a war that he could have never have won. He met a better fighter that night, simple as that.

Just chill John and let The Law get back to you and then carry on as normal. Post your threads in the knowledge that there are all sorts of personalities on here, with different agendas and varying levels of knowledge, but for the most part its a great site, with some great people to debate with and that the main thing to concentrate on mate

If I remember rightly Herol fought Mccallum at a time when he was being managed/promoted by Barney Eastwood and Eastwood (please dont sue me!) was trying to get Herol to adopt a more 'positive' style... hence he was the aggressor against Mccallum who happened to be probably the best counterpuncher of his era... and he still only lost by a narrow decision I belive. Same against Sumbu Kalambay I belive and we all remember what happened against Jackson. I belive Herol tried to alter his style and get away from the 'limbo dancer' reputation that some had labelled him with at the time. Its worth remembering that although we all look back on herol as a hugely talented boxer who should have been world champion today, during his careeer there was quite a lot of negativity about his style. In a very simular way to how Mccallum was over looked and under appreciated during his heyday.
And who remembers Kalambay today, who was arguably the best of all three of them and gave a prime Mccallum as much trouble as toney would later on...

fatcity69 wrote:If I remember rightly Herol fought Mccallum at a time when he was being managed/promoted by Barney Eastwood and Eastwood (please dont sue me!) was trying to get Herol to adopt a more 'positive' style... hence he was the aggressor against Mccallum who happened to be probably the best counterpuncher of his era... and he still only lost by a narrow decision I belive. Same against Sumbu Kalambay I belive and we all remember what happened against Jackson. I belive Herol tried to alter his style and get away from the 'limbo dancer' reputation that some had labelled him with at the time. Its worth remembering that although we all look back on herol as a hugely talented boxer who should have been world champion today, during his careeer there was quite a lot of negativity about his style. In a very simular way to how Mccallum was over looked and under appreciated during his heyday.
And who remembers Kalambay today, who was arguably the best of all three of them and gave a prime Mccallum as much trouble as toney would later on...

Great post and your recollection re. Eastwood is completely correct in terms of the Kalambay fight - have to be honest and say I can't remember re. against Mccallum.

"Police, Fire or ambulance?"

- "Police Please."

"Hello Police, what's the problem sir."

- "It's an emergency. My life is in danger."

"Ok Sir, what's occured."

- "Someone sent me a thinly veiled threat through an internet forum."

"Remain Calm sir, armed response units shall be deployed along with a police helicopter."

- "Hurry up. It's not one troll.... but a whole 'possy' of them."

"Sir, I'm going to deploy the army. How many trolls approximately?"

- "I'm awaiting their IP addresses. Then I will be able to advise."

can the mods do us a favour and ban both cakes and Jon Saxon?

... is this some sort of wind-up or joke thread?

if not ...

Jon Saxon - take a look at yourself fella ..

G0mez wrote:"Police, Fire or ambulance?"

- "Police Please."

"Hello Police, what's the problem sir."

- "It's an emergency. My life is in danger."

"Ok Sir, what's occured."

- "Someone sent me a thinly veiled threat through an internet forum."

"Remain Calm sir, armed response units shall be deployed along with a police helicopter."

- "Hurry up. It's not one troll.... but a whole 'possy' of them."

"Sir, I'm going to deploy the army. How many trolls approximately?"

- "I'm awaiting their IP addresses. Then I will be able to advise."

sendo wrote:

can the mods do us a favour and ban both cakes and Jon Saxon?

hahaha. dont mess with cakes outa the yorkshire possy, and jon just don't see the funny side of it, mans far to sensitive. cakes is probably a sweet kid at heart.

tonyevs wrote:... is this some sort of wind-up or joke thread?

if not ...

Jon Saxon - take a look at yourself fella ..

Amen to that

G0mez wrote:"Police, Fire or ambulance?"

- "Police Please."

"Hello Police, what's the problem sir."

- "It's an emergency. My life is in danger."

"Ok Sir, what's occured."

- "Someone sent me a thinly veiled threat through an internet forum."

"Remain Calm sir, armed response units shall be deployed along with a police helicopter."

- "Hurry up. It's not one troll.... but a whole 'possy' of them."

"Sir, I'm going to deploy the army. How many trolls approximately?"

- "I'm awaiting their IP addresses. Then I will be able to advise."

That was brilliant....made me laugh D

The only thing is that if you did phone the police...................it would be this !!

"Hello, police please........."

"I'm sorry, but the police are unable to take your call right now, all our lines are busy"

"But i need the police..........now"

"Your call is important to us and we will put you through to one of our trained advisors as soon as one becomes available"

"I NEED THE POLICE.........."

"Thank you for your call.................Hello, this is the police service, all our operators are busy"

Somebody has the painters in.

Cant believe this thread is still here since this morning So has cakes been Banned ?? :)

mrpedigree wrote:Cant believe this thread is still here since this morning So has cakes been Banned ?? :)

I hope so, otherwise Jon is going to go apeshit!

crusader wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

mrpedigree wrote:I don't give two fcuks if someone threatens me on a forum,cause what does it actually mean ? nothing ?
IMO Jon with all due respect Not a very manly thing going squealing to mods,grassing to get someone banned over something so childish ....get over it or your will be grassin/telling tales all your life

You dont get it do you?

This isn't about being a man, this is about harmony and making this place better so that this type of stuff is stopped as quick as it happens.
I like boxrec there are some really nice people on here (yourself included) but I honstly hate the internet for threats no matter how trivial they are, we as a race have to try to go upwards an forwards and we must stop anyone from doing this anytime we can.

This person MUST be banned.

Why? because there is an excuse for everything but sometimes we must do the right thing.

You're really taking that PM seriously

Seriously? Sounds like he is crapping himself.

Scottrf wrote:

DougieC30 wrote:What have I missed??

Cakes is trying to bring us down as a race, and Jon can not, and will not, let that happen.

There are imperatives in this world, and the need to fight those injustices plaguing this earth such as keyboard warrioring, are chief among them.

We cannot stay silent on this issue any longer, I ask you all to rise in the name of humanity.

Me and Spud are ready and willing to help find this man who has destroyed Jon Saxon's life!