BoxRec

42

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:What else was he going to do? It's not like Trevor could stick and move. He also was known for his chin. He probably thought he could wear Mike out. And lets not forget, Berbick was batshit crazy.

Seriously think there’s a lot in this.

Berbick was physically stronger and was known for being very durable. How many times has a big puncher met someone with an iron chin and ended up on the losing end of it??? In that short fight Tyson often appears quite sluggish. Berbick pushed him off again and again. But Tyson’s power was a lot to do with just how accurate he was. I mean his punch placement was excellent.

When Tyson sparked Berbick I think a lot of people were suddenly aware that the whole Tyson thing was for real. After that fighters generally tried to run and hold (which actually played into Tyson’s hands). The next fighter to really try and back him up was Douglas.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:42

want to go for a drink

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Crease wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I wasn't criticizing you. I just don't see what strategy you would want him to employ. He was what he was.

Well, as I say... Whatever strategy he choose to employ, standing toe-to-toe with Tyson si probably thw worse one you could pick.

Not the worst, the only. Trevor wasn't exactly the most versatile fighter on the planet. he was a bit plodding and slow. His main attributes were his chin and stamina. He could have tried to hold and survive like Smith or Tucker. Kudos to him for trying to win.

I think Tucker was trying to win against Tyson; at least until until he hurt his hand. He was doing pretty well early in the fight. He came into the fight with the idea of winning, not just surviving.

Ezzard wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:What else was he going to do? It's not like Trevor could stick and move. He also was known for his chin. He probably thought he could wear Mike out. And lets not forget, Berbick was batshit crazy.

Seriously think there’s a lot in this.

Berbick was physically stronger and was known for being very durable. How many times has a big puncher met someone with an iron chin and ended up on the losing end of it??? In that short fight Tyson often appears quite sluggish. Berbick pushed him off again and again. But Tyson’s power was a lot to do with just how accurate he was. I mean his punch placement was excellent.

When Tyson sparked Berbick I think a lot of people were suddenly aware that the whole Tyson thing was for real. After that fighters generally tried to run and hold (which actually played into Tyson’s hands). The next fighter to really try and back him up was Douglas.

Berbick was no slickster but looking at him on film in retrospect he was better than at least I remembered. He had good head and upper body movement, pretty quick hands, good combinations. His footwork was a little pedestrian but for a guy who got into boxing pretty late, he was very impressive. I think he actually looked better in losing to Holmes in '80 than he did in beating Thomas for the title 5 years later.

He did pretty well against Holmes; it may have even been Holmes' most difficult title defense until he got old. Berbick was just so inconsistent. He also beat Page and Bey, and lost a close one to Renaldo Snipes. Of course he had the fight where he was literally chasing John Tate.

However, he lost to ST Gordon who he should have beat easily.

Probably his most embarrassing performance was against Carl Williams, which was a preliminary fight before Tyson-Spinks. There were several rounds where Berbick barely threw a punch. The officials were charitable and gave him a few rounds but it wasn't close at all.

He had kind of a funny style, but he was in the same class as Witherspoon,Thomas and Page and a few others of that era.

Ambling Alp wrote:Probably his most embarrassing performance was against Carl Williams, which was a preliminary fight before Tyson-Spinks. There were several rounds where Berbick barely threw a punch. The officials were charitable and gave him a few rounds but it wasn't close at all.

Still, "The Truth" was no slouch either.

Carl "The Truth" is another strange case... Every time I hear people talking about him they either overrate how good he was, or underrate him.

His biggest downfall again (like most of the other fighters in this era) was that he was far too inconsistent to ever be World Champion (though he had his shots and was a top contender on and off over the years).

I don't know that it was inconsistency as much as it was that his shots came against Tyson & Holmes. And he could have gotten the decision against Larry. A lot of people thought he won.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't know that it was inconsistency as much as it was that his shots came against Tyson & Holmes. And he could have gotten the decision against Larry. A lot of people thought he won.

But he was inconsistent in his non-title fights. He lost a load of fights that were winnable for him.

Crease wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I don't know that it was inconsistency as much as it was that his shots came against Tyson & Holmes. And he could have gotten the decision against Larry. A lot of people thought he won.

But he was inconsistent in his non-title fights. He lost a load of fights that were winnable for him.

Most above average fighters compile varied results. He was pretty consistent to me. He lost to Holmes, Weaver ,Tyson & Witherspoon until he was finished at the elite level.

Inconsistency to me would be more like Duran above Welterweight. One of the most consistent fighters of the current era is Zab Judah and everyone labels him inconsistent. I guess it's based on expectations of the individual offering the opinion. I base it off of results and other than an inspired effort against Morrison, Williams never did anything after the Spoon fight. He may have been a bit of an underachiever, but they are two different conversations.

It is a bit of a stretch to call him inconisistent. He should have not have lost to a journeyman liker Jerry jones and the getting knocked out so easily by Weaver was embarrassing. however, that is about it.

However, as mentioned previously, the the losses were to Tyson, Witherspoon and Holmes. He totally got robbed against Holmes (granted a fading Holmes) and he was competitive against Witherspoon. He did beat the fringe contenders such as Tillis, Cooper, and Ferguson before those guys became journeyman.
He and Snipes were really at the level of the Alphabet Soup titleholders such as Berbick, Witherspoon, Page, Thomas etc.

Only ever saw Holmes-Williams on highlights in the UK. Vividly remember watching it on a black and white portable in my bedroom.

What kind of score did you guys have?

When I saw it live on TV I scored it 11-4 for Williams. Several years later I saw a replay and changed it to 10-5. The judges' scoring was unbelievable.

Ambling Alp wrote:When I saw it live on TV I scored it 11-4 for Williams. Several years later I saw a replay and changed it to 10-5. The judges' scoring was unbelievable.

So was yours.

What pray tell, was your score?

Crease wrote:Out of these 4 accomplished boxers...
Cleveland Williams:
Tim Witherspoon:
Pinklon Thomas:
Greg Page:

Tim Witherspoon
Greg Page
Pinklon Thomas
Cleveland Williams

Even though Thomas had a better record, and sucess, Page was more talented, and probably fought more people that were significant.He was the most talented member of this four, and of the 80's.