BoxRec

Counter-puncher wrote:dude, you're arguing against a strawman you created yourself. anyone would think there have been 100s of people on here saying bellew won.

..... give it a week or two .. and there will be

tonyevs wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:dude, you're arguing against a strawman you created yourself. anyone would think there have been 100s of people on here saying bellew won.

..... give it a week or two .. and there will be

oh, better yet, rather than picking an argument with nonexistent posters, you're arguing against non-existent posters from the future. makes perfect sense, if noone else will argue with you I mean.

Bellew lost, it is that easy

Ill be honest in the arena on the night, I thought bellew had done enough to win it. Mainly because the crowd was going nuts every time he threw a shot, no matter how close it was to landing. When I watched it back yesterday though, I thought clevs defence was very good apart from eating one or two big shots late on. Watching it back I think Clev was a clear winner as most of bellew shots missed or landed on the gloves and I don't actually think parriss' scorecard was that far out.

Counter-puncher wrote:

tonyevs wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:dude, you're arguing against a strawman you created yourself. anyone would think there have been 100s of people on here saying bellew won.

..... give it a week or two .. and there will be

oh, better yet, rather than picking an argument with nonexistent posters, you're arguing against non-existent posters from the future. makes perfect sense, if noone else will argue with you I mean.

Close fight in which the right guy won but neither proved to be miles ahead of the other. Be nice to see a return in the future as I reckon both guys show the scope for improvement.

Realistic wrote:Bellew lost, it is that easy

Strange how this has developed. Most had Clev winning, quite a few had it a draw, a couple had it to Bomber by the slightest. What has brought on the arguments?

I believe Clev won his rounds clearer than what Tony did which would give the opinion he's the clear winner; though we all know it goes on how many rounds you win and in some rounds (6 of them for me), Clev didn't throw that many punches and in turn Bomber controlled the centre of the ring. On rounds won (which is what matters), it was very close and I can't argue against anyone having the fight to either fighter by a couple.

Also, the people picking the arguments here are doing so against some of the better, more knowledgeable and neutral posters.

It was close, but a fair UD for Clev imo..

Cotto16 wrote:Was the fight close & competive throughout? Yes no dout, but the clear winner was Clev. He landed more punchers & the cleaner one's.

But at times Bellew's punchers looked better because of the crowds crazy cheering, even when Bellew missed with punches they screamed loudly as if he had landed. When Clev landed with some really eye catching shots, it was complete silience. This played a big part in the fight.

I watched the fight for a second time without the volume on. An I dont see how it can't be scored for Cleverly. Like I said he landed the cleaner shots and overall outowrked & outfought Bellew. Bellew did have his moments and landed some good shots but Cleverly's work was better.

Clev landed more & slipped alot but the crowd were acting like they were all landing. Home Advantage can play a majot factor in scoring and for Clev to still get the decision in his Tony's backard says it all.

Great fight, but Cleverly a close but CLEAR WINNER.

Wasn't a clear winner at all mate, I've never seen so many posters score a fight a draw. I was one of them.

Captain Hook wrote:

Cotto16 wrote:Was the fight close & competive throughout? Yes no dout, but the clear winner was Clev. He landed more punchers & the cleaner one's.

But at times Bellew's punchers looked better because of the crowds crazy cheering, even when Bellew missed with punches they screamed loudly as if he had landed. When Clev landed with some really eye catching shots, it was complete silience. This played a big part in the fight.

I watched the fight for a second time without the volume on. An I dont see how it can't be scored for Cleverly. Like I said he landed the cleaner shots and overall outowrked & outfought Bellew. Bellew did have his moments and landed some good shots but Cleverly's work was better.

Clev landed more & slipped alot but the crowd were acting like they were all landing. Home Advantage can play a majot factor in scoring and for Clev to still get the decision in his Tony's backard says it all.

Great fight, but Cleverly a close but CLEAR WINNER.

Wasn't a clear winner at all mate, I've never seen so many posters score a fight a draw. I was one of them.

But what do you know

tonyevs wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:dude, you're arguing against a strawman you created yourself. anyone would think there have been 100s of people on here saying bellew won.

..... give it a week or two .. and there will be

How correct you were

I had it 114-114, Bellew had the best of the early going and Cleverly was coming on stronger at the end.

King Geedorah wrote:I know it goes against what Bellew himself and a lot of pros have to say but I don’t see the argument for having to win eight to ‘take the title from the champion’. If Utd and Liverpool ended up with the same points would we advocate passing the title to United even if LFC had a better goals ratio based on the fact that ‘Pool didn’t win by enough points to ‘take’ the crown? It is a nonsensical idea.

The title belt is placed with the officials ahead of the first bell, in essence it becomes briefly vacant and the fight itself should be scored on a round by round basis and the winner is the winner.

Or we could go down the road of awarding the titlist a +2 margin going in so that the fighters, commentators and fans have a clear idea of the unfair nature of challenging for a belt in boxing.

I agree. It has always irked me hearing commentators state that the challenger will have to win their rounds clearly as every close round will go to the champion. That's insane.

I'm a bit late to the party here- just saw the fight on Youtube. Most people seem to have had it a draw. I honestly think a draw is about as generous as it could get toward Cleverly without a fair bit of bias. I had it 116-112 Bellew. Of course that's on Youtube with some occasional blurriness, so maybe I missed some things. But based on what I saw, it should have been scored anywhere between 117-111 Bellew and 114-114. Anybody else think it was definitely a Bellew fight or a draw at best? Or am I off base here?

I thought a lot of Cleverly's clean blows were slaps, while Bellew was landing the more effective shots in the majority of rounds. I also thought Bellew was the effective aggressor for most of the fight.

Round by round, I gave Bellew 1-4 (2 clear and 4 fairly clear, and 1 and 3 just barely). I gave Cleverly 5&6 fairly clear and clear, respectively. I thought Bellew won 7 somewhat but not totally clear. 8 I gave to Cleverly in close fashion. I thought Bellew won 9-11 very clearly, and lost 12 very clearly.

What does this take it from the champion bollocks really mean?? I never lost that fight IMHO.. It's gone now but what pisses me right off is a little garden gnome (Vince Cleverly) stating that Clev never got outta first gear and that he hammered me! The man has obviously fell off his mushroom!!

I know I won 6 rounds of that fight and I'm giving hm the close rounds too! I wanna do it again ASAP but its falling on deaf ears and he's saying NO, I remember McKenzie screaming fr a rematch and I gave him one immediately..

Vince Cleverly is a stupid little t**t, I've never liked him I never will! I showed him respect after the fight cos that's the person I am but it was obviously the wrong move by me! I'll tell him that when I see the little pumped up freak! My disdain was nothing to do with tickets I generally don't like either although I respect someone after going through what I went through with NC!

People asking why didn't I raise my hands? My hand felt like it was on fire! I was told by my coaches from day 1 dont get involved with the crowd in the fight, I didn't.. My reaction after the fight was honest, i never once said I lost, look back at it! All I could think about was that I'd let everyone of my team and family down but in hind site I never cos I never lost that fight and I'm not the kind of person who lies to himself or tries to kid himself..

All I'll say is f**k that little garden gnome he knows nothing!

Thanks guys for all your support too!

To say it overwhelmes me would be an understatement so thank you..

tonyevs wrote:
..... give it a week or two .. and there will be

... yep

Bomber 1 wrote:What does this take it from the champion bollocks really mean??

Yeah, I'd agree with you on that. Especially since it's just some alphabet title instead of a real championship. The way I look at it, he was a contender and you were an undefeated prospect/fringe contender. And they don't say "take it from the contender." If everybody looks at it as what it really was- a good fight between two undefeated fighters trying to build their resumes toward an eventual shot at the real championship currently held by Hopkins- then maybe people wouldn't be giving Cleverly essentially free rounds here and there, which is what I think happened. Especially on 2 of the official cards.

Then again, I'm a "Yank" and don't know the British scene that intimately. Maybe the scoring rules and the way they train judges are different there- I know it's practically a crime to give even rounds here in the US, for instance. Maybe the effectiveness of the punches isn't emphasized as much in the UK, either...I don't know. I definitely thought DeGale, for instance, deserved the edge on Groves for reasons similar to those that led me to score the fight for you over Cleverly, but the Groves win didn't seem to cause nearly as much controversy (at least from my view across the pond) as I would have expected.

I'll stay out of the Vince Cleverly thing...I have no clue about all that. But they definitely should give you a rematch. They've still got plenty to prove against you, as far as I'm concerned.

Like I said after the fight I thought a draw was fair and that was giving 2 close rounds to Cleverly, I also thought Degale won by a point or 2. I don't think much was made about that result because of the way he slagged George Groves off before the fight, everyone I spoke to wanted Degale to lose.

What a joke this thread has turned into personal name calling on a bloody forum is an all time low IMHO

taffytoon wrote:What a joke this thread has turned into personal name calling on a bloody forum is an all time low IMHO

I'm gonna say it to his face don't worry about that! See the way you don't say what the gnome said is wrong though do you?

maltesecharlie wrote:Like I said after the fight I thought a draw was fair and that was giving 2 close rounds to Cleverly, I also thought Degale won by a point or 2. I don't think much was made about that result because of the way he slagged George Groves off before the fight, everyone I spoke to wanted Degale to lose.

You naming yourself after Charlie Magri by any chance.

Vince Cleverly obviously exagerated Nathans winning margin .. quite considerably
But .. he hasn`t, to my knowledge, insulted you on a personal level as you are now doing to him

Once again I think your cheapening yourself Bomber. Anybody who watched the fight knows you made it very very close ... there is absolutely no need for you to start the whole name calling thing again. The re-match isn`t likely to happen.

There shouldn't be an immediate rematch Cleverly won easily enough. Bellew needs to work his way back into contention he didn't really deserve the shot in the first place tbh

Bomber 1 wrote:

taffytoon wrote:What a joke this thread has turned into personal name calling on a bloody forum is an all time low IMHO

I'm gonna say it to his face don't worry about that! See the way you don't say what the gnome said is wrong though do you?

Tony I honestly hate name calling regardless of who says it, if VInce has offended you then I believe an apology is in order but taking the rise out of people's appearance is a little immature ( again this is only my opinion)

I was speaking to Vince only a couple of weeks ago at their new gym and all I can say is that he had NOTHING but praise for you and even went on to say what a lovely kid you were after the fight.

It's a disgrace really that Bellew isn't getting a rematch. Reminds me of Calzaghe's attitude whenever he scraped through against Reid etc.

Cleverly hasn't beaten Bellew IMO, there's unfinished business but rather than settle it for good he'll 'move on', which means his matchmaking will tighten up and he'll be steered clear of anyone as live as Bellew.