BoxRec

No

earsjohn wrote:I find it alarming that official (Bunce) and unofficial (Boxingchat) representatives from a new, subscription based service would come onto a forum containing one of the largest online communities of UK boxing fans and act in such an insulting and condescending manner towards the people that are needed in order to make Allegedly channel work.

As consumers in a buyers market it is our choice when we make a purchase. Allegedly channel is asking us to commit at least £50 for 6 months boxing. At the moment, the schedule consists of one attractive, albeit overnight card and a couple of Londoners fighting unnamed opponents on the Echo card. These are supported by Povetkin against a journeyman and Stephen Ormond v Carl Johanson (sic!).

Call me daft (or in Bunceys case, pompous), but when making a financial commitment, I like to know what I'm getting for my money. Purely citing the last 3 months as an indication of whats coming over the next 6 months doesn't work as we all know Boxing doesn't work like that. An injury to Cleverly, Ricky Burns being matched with Alex Arthur and Sky outbidding for future Golden Boy cards and all of a sudden my subscription doesn't look so worthwhile.

So, Allegedly channel and your various representatives, you have heard what we, the willing-to-pay-public, want from you (openness, transparency, information, consistency and, dare I say it, respect). As a potential service provider, are you willing to co-operate? Until then, it's not for me.

Good post...

Boxing and its promoters need a real PR injection......marketing isn't this sport's strong point.

Should take a leaf out of the UFC's book.

Insulting? This is a website you pillock and it's full of people abusing each other - I thought that was the rule!
Get thicker skin, go to a few shows and get a feel for boxing. There is more to being a boxing fan than a love of Mayweather DVDs.
I still don't understand how any boxing fans will refuse to subscribe, I'm shocked.
The fact remains that the editor of this site, who has now gone all ''if only you knew" on us, is against the channel and it's clealry personal and stupid. That is just crazy.
And in reply to somebody giving me stick ...I used my experiences earlier because surely that is what opinions are based on? I have no opinions on Peruvian politics because I know nothing about Peruvian politics. The ed of this site tried to claim that he was taking a stance and I was pointing out that he has not got a clue about taking a stance. You see...opinion based on experience.

Adios.

Adios.

Captain Hook wrote:

Buncey wrote:No, if he doesn't like you perhaps he thinks that you are doing a terrible job. It's not, let's be honest a proper job. Denying a channel that has so far screened about one hundred fights and calling yourself a boxing writer is just garbage, trust me. I've been on missions, crusades and believed I was right. I have been banned, sued, in court and lied to over taking boxing stances that mattered. That was all before the internet allowed people to hide behind a name and take swipes. You are just being a complete fool.

Adios.

We got back onto the subject of you pretty quickly then Steve!

Ian does a lot for boxing through Boxrec, but you don't hear him blowing his own trumpet.

quite.

Buncey wrote: There is more to being a boxing fan than a love of Mayweather DVDs.
I still don't understand how any boxing fans will refuse to subscribe, I'm shocked.

oh, yeah, McNeilly's just into HBO boxing and the like. that's why he edited britishboxing.net, which gave coverage to hundreds of small hall bills. i assume he did this on his own dime, too, rather than being paid to do so.

I trust his objectivity and balance way more than I trust yours, mr 'Audley to be world champion', mr 'Enzo vs Haye is a genuine 50/50 fight' and dozens of other cringeworthy statements which can only ever seem shot through with bias.

as for your not understanding? well you do tend to come off all plaintive any time people just irrationally refuse to toe whatever line you are spouting/plugging at the time. it generally equates to you looking like a kid throwing teddies out of the pram, enraged that your incessant self-promotion hasn't seemingly borne fruit.

once again you come across as a high-handed, arrogant, one-eyed mouthpiece for a particular commercial vehicle. in the light of which, your preciousness and self-righteousness are almost sickening.

Buncey,

This site has hundreds of guys deliberating whether to sign up and you come on and spout that?

Are you even interested in the argument against?

Buncey wrote: I still don't understand how any boxing fans will refuse to subscribe, I'm shocked.

And this is where the whole enterprise falls down. The failure of key players within allegedly to identify the motivations of their potential subscriber base.

I am not refusing to subscribe but am basing my spending decisions on being provided with some kind of guarantee over the value I'm likely to receive for the money I'm being asked to spend. I like to know what I'm buying.

I've paid to go to a number of shows, and while I invariably enjoy the experience, there is always at least one aspect of the show that, as a paying punter, I feel could be done better. This influences my future spending decisions and I go to less shows as I don't feel I'm getting value for the money I spend.

Also there is the cost. £10 isn't much, but on top of the multiple other bills, crippling rises in the cost of fuel, energy and food, the impending delights of xmas and at a time where unemployment is at a generational high (with the target market of males under 30 being the hardest hit), there are going to be many reasons why boxing fans will refuse to subscribe. Further, allegedly has no plans to provide a HD service. That, as a consumer of TV services, doesn't suit me.

Buncey wrote: The ed of this site tried to claim that he was taking a stance and I was pointing out that he has not got a clue about taking a stance. You see...opinion based on experience.

Quite. So seeing as you have little experience with regards to actually knowing anything about me, how can you confidently form the above opinion?

earsjohn wrote:

Buncey wrote: I still don't understand how any boxing fans will refuse to subscribe, I'm shocked.

And this is where the whole enterprise falls down. The failure of key players within Allegedly channel to identify the motivations of their potential subscriber base.

I am not refusing to subscribe but am basing my spending decisions on being provided with some kind of guarantee over the value I'm likely to receive for the money I'm being asked to spend. I like to know what I'm buying.

I've paid to go to a number of shows, and while I invariably enjoy the experience, there is always at least one aspect of the show that, as a paying punter, I feel could be done better. This influences my future spending decisions and I go to less shows as I don't feel I'm getting value for the money I spend.

Also there is the cost. £10 isn't much, but on top of the multiple other bills, crippling rises in the cost of fuel, energy and food, the impending delights of xmas and at a time where unemployment is at a generational high (with the target market of males under 30 being the hardest hit), there are going to be many reasons why boxing fans will refuse to subscribe. Further, Allegedly channel has no plans to provide a HD service. That, as a consumer of TV services, doesn't suit me.

Excellent post yet again.

Buncey wrote:Fool is not the right word. Young fighters read this and I would prefer not to use the right word. I doubt that you could get a living out of this game, I really do. It would be nice to see you at a show.

Adios.

Bitter.

The funny thing is as upset as promoters get with forums, surely all feedback from boxing fans, about boxing are like gold dust to them? As a personal trainer- a forum full of people discussing personal training both good and bad points would be priceless info. I'd know exactly how to deliver the best package possible and at the right price.

It seems however boxing forums get treated like a irritant! From a business point of view that's laughable isn't it?

I can't help but think they're going to struggle - half of this site apparentely aren't paying for it, me included. Another point, too, is that I was at the gym the other day and I started talking to a chap about boxing - he surprisingly knew his stuff. I mentioned BN and he had no clue. Is it only us forumers who know about it?

Advertising has been a stinker.

Even if all the hardcore fans subscribe I doubt that will be enough. I would subscribe if it ever gets to virgin! But how many casual fans will subscribe or know it exists!

Hardly anyone I know watches it and it's free

King Geedorah wrote:There is an anti-FW slant on this forum, always has been (1) and I'm not judging, just stating the truth, but most of us have supported what BN offer in one form or another over the years but view BN itself through the spectrum of feelings for the people at the helm. Remove those feelings, look back at what we've asked for in the past RE televising small hall shows, a dedicated channel and whatnot, and BN gives us what we asked for over the years, it is just that many don't like the people delivering it and can't see past that.(2)

(1) If that is the case, why do you think this is?

(2)...or they don't feel 'seeing past it' is justified.

I think it is a brave thing to try and it will be interesting to see if it takes off. I won't be signing up to it, at present, not because I don't want to, but because I need to preserve my cash. I am not living hand to mouth, as such, but I am not leading an exotic lifestyle either :-)

Shame about the arguments. I think Ian is an excellent journalist and so is Steve Bunce.I enjoy both of their articles in Boxing Monthly and I thought Buncy's show on Sentanta was one of the best things to happen in British Boxing for a long time -full of insight and passion.

In truth, I'd rather let Adam Smith cut my balls off with a butter knife rather than give my cash to the pudendum of all pudenda.

big lennox wrote:I think it is a brave thing to try and it will be interesting to see if it takes off. I won't be signing up to it, at present, not because I don't want to, but because I need to preserve my cash. I am not living hand to mouth, as such, but I am not leading an exotic lifestyle either :-)

Shame about the arguments. I think Ian is an excellent journalist and so is Steve Bunce.I enjoy both of their articles in Boxing Monthly and I thought Buncy's show on Sentanta was one of the best things to happen in British Boxing for a long time -full of insight and passion.

Thanks to the proper fans.

Adios.

Buncey seems to have forgotten the lengths many posters on here went to to try and keep him and his show on Setanta - do you remember the campaigns?

edited

Dioufy wrote:
Advertising has been a stinker.

Matching a behemoth like Sky for advertising is impossible for any channel, let alone a tiny channel like 456.

Like I said in another thread, Sky's magazine lands on the doorsteps of 9.3 million customers. This is a split of circa 7.5m to domestic users and the rest will be gyms, pubs and so forth making up that figure. That is an incredible route to market in it's own right.

When they have a PPV product to push, they will often cover the magazine front page with a full picture of the fighter, say Ricky Hatton or David Haye - plus a lengthy feature inside the magazine itself spanning several pages. Those of us who simply bin the magazine will still get the event pumped into our minds via Sky Sports news, Soccer AM and also their general channels which also go out to millions. This advertising campaign will often start out many weeks ahead of the event itself.

Advertising breeds more advertising - for example Haye subsequently getting invited onto plenty of non-Sky broadcasts as a guest as the public become more and more consumed by it all.

A start-up channel will basically have trade-advertising such as the boxing papers, plus maybe the ever declining red top news papers. The coverage of boxing by newspapers is pretty limited so exposure from this route will also be largely ignored by the masses.

Let's face it, boxing is almost entirely represented online via forums and websites nowadays - that is their main route to market. A specialist channel needs specialist subscribers as it's customer base to grow from.

Primetime and Premier Sports often do competitions, press releases and also give lots of webmasters free subscriptions etc to develop alliances and in turn get publicity for their events.

Thats the key word here for the success of any start-up = Alliances.

Captain Hook wrote:Buncey seems to have forgotten the lengths many posters on here went to to try and keep him and his show on Setanta - do you remember the campaigns?

yes, but they were the proper fans, IE the ones who agreed with the Blustering Buffoon of Braggadocio.

those who disagree with him, they ain't proper fans, hooky. trust me.

Jeff Thomas wrote:The funny thing is as upset as promoters get with forums, surely all feedback from boxing fans, about boxing are like gold dust to them? As a personal trainer- a forum full of people discussing personal training both good and bad points would be priceless info. I'd know exactly how to deliver the best package possible and at the right price.

It seems however boxing forums get treated like a irritant! From a business point of view that's laughable isn't it?

It should be Jeff...you're right.

Reams of information, all free, all from people who've invested large portions of their money and lives into boxing, or watching fights, or reading magazines like BN and BM, or scouring the internet and contributing to Boxrec and other sites, or travelling the world to attend shows....or all of the above.

Instead of:

"You're not going to pay £10 of your hard-earned cash every month? Why? What would make you choose to do so? Perhaps we could take the points you raise and look at them? We'll do our best to give the fans what they want, within reason"

We get:

"You're not going to pay £10 of your hard-earned cash every month? You pillocks, are you kidding, you're not proper fans etc etc"

Some promotional outfits post and disappear, they're not interested. Some go ape when you criticise a show or a fighter or an undercard.

The fact the UK's top promoter is loathed by so many fans of the sport is so damaging, but he doesn't care, or at least he doesn't seem to.

If he were loved and respected many, if not the majority of posters would sign up in a heartbeat.

Captain Hook wrote:
We get:

"You're not going to pay £10 of your hard-earned cash every month? You pillocks, are you kidding, you're not proper fans etc etc"

.

customer service at its best