BoxRec

Roco wrote:

sharpei_louis wrote:Gotta say I'm not convincing myself I rate him the highest in terms of ability, but none of those on the list can match Froch for simply being prepared to fight anyone. His resume is amazing, he will fight anyone anywhere and has put it all on the line. I'm not sure he'd beat Calzaghe or Eubak in their prime, but reckon he probably out 'chin's Benn, and I know he would be the guy making the fights actually happen. If Calzaghe's talent would have had Froch's balls in terms of matchmaking, he would be an all time great.

Can't see Froch chinning Benn to be honest. Benn was more skilled and quicker of the two. I see Benn getting the better of the exchanges all night long.

Yeah sorry I don't think I expressed what I meant properly. I meant I think Froch has the better chin, not that he would necessarily get the better of him as Benn was imo clearly the more explosive puncher.

sharpei_louis wrote:

Roco wrote:

sharpei_louis wrote:Gotta say I'm not convincing myself I rate him the highest in terms of ability, but none of those on the list can match Froch for simply being prepared to fight anyone. His resume is amazing, he will fight anyone anywhere and has put it all on the line. I'm not sure he'd beat Calzaghe or Eubak in their prime, but reckon he probably out 'chin's Benn, and I know he would be the guy making the fights actually happen. If Calzaghe's talent would have had Froch's balls in terms of matchmaking, he would be an all time great.

Can't see Froch chinning Benn to be honest. Benn was more skilled and quicker of the two. I see Benn getting the better of the exchanges all night long.

Yeah sorry I don't think I expressed what I meant properly. I meant I think Froch has the better chin, not that he would necessarily get the better of him as Benn was imo clearly the more explosive puncher.

Benn/Froch is an interesting one. On the one hand Nigel was the kind if quick two handed puncher that I think could get to Froch and actually hurt him in the same way Taylor was able to early on. On the other hand Benn was never a big SMW, while Froch is a beast at the weight. Carl would have a big size and strength advantage IMO.

stujones wrote: Whilst naturaly Slapbangwhallop is bias I think your doing Steve Collins a mighty disservice there Yiddo.

Mike McCallum in 1990 - would have destroyed Eubank and Benn. Collins was a 13 (I think) fight novice and he ran him relatively close for the world title. He lost a mighty close (some say hometown) to Reggie Johnson - who would have possibly been the best win on either Eubank or Benn's record and certainly no forgone conclusion had they fought. He also lost a close one to Sambu Kalambay who was an outstanding fighter.

He demolished Chris Pyatt, who was an outstanding fighter and apparently regularly gave Eubank fits in sparring.

All of these were before he entered his prime years as a fighter.

His early career is very underated.

I love smell of hypocrisy in the morning. ;)

Yeah, obviously the Irish guy is biased for thinking that a fighters is potentially better than two other fighters that he beat twice each.

I really need to keep it in check before I lose credibility around here.

stujones wrote:

yiddo14 wrote:

slapbangwhallop wrote:Always love this topic. Some hilarious opinions.

So Collins beat a shot to pieces washed-up over the hill UNBEATEN Eubank that was two years younger than him, oh yeah and Eubank was afraid to knock anyone out at this stage because of the demons he was carrying around, didnt stop him finishing 4 of his next 5 fights early - the only blemish being another defeat to Collins. You guys will believe any ould shite. ITV sure did addle yer nappers.

Ah sure let them have their fantasy, and let Collins rest easy with his set of 4 wins over the pair.

Eubank was past his best. I notice you didn't bring up Benn. Nobody could argue he was anything other than completely finished by the time Collins got to him.

Eubank was too active considering his decline at that point in his career. You mention Eubank won 4 of his next 5 too, but against pony opposition! Even after taking that all into account, the first Collins fight was effing tight and could easily have gone either way.

I don't hate on Collins, I think he was managed perfectly at that point, hence why his name is on such lists and crops up in these debates when his talent doesn't warrant it.

Anyway, this is prime for prime...I could argue that Robin Reid on his best night would beat Steve Collins if I chose to!

Whilst naturaly Slapbangwhallop is bias I think your doing Steve Collins a mighty disservice there Yiddo.

Mike McCallum in 1990 - would have destroyed Eubank and Benn. Collins was a 13 (I think) fight novice and he ran him relatively close for the world title. He lost a mighty close (some say hometown) to Reggie Johnson - who would have possibly been the best win on either Eubank or Benn's record and certainly no forgone conclusion had they fought. He also lost a close one to Sambu Kalambay who was an outstanding fighter.

He demolished Chris Pyatt, who was an outstanding fighter and apparently regularly gave Eubank fits in sparring.

All of these were before he entered his prime years as a fighter.

His early career is very underated.

christ stu dont call Lenoard biased he will have a tantrum of teenage girl proportions hwne her date dont show up for the prom and write 17 further pages of drivel trying to convince you otherwise and telling you wha a wanker you are.

On the flip side nice to see your got head screwed on mate.

1. Eubank
2. Calzaghe
3. Benn
4. Collins ('92 version)
5. Froch

stujones wrote:

yiddo14 wrote:

slapbangwhallop wrote:
Mike McCallum in 1990 - would have destroyed Eubank and Benn.

Eubank was interviewed during the McCallum/Collins fight and said he'd beat McCallum in five rounds and Collins in two rounds!

I'm not sure about Collins in two, but McCallum was three weights smaller/weaker than Eubank, struggled with movers and wasn't an evader.

There is nothing "not to be sure" about - Eubank tried twice, and twice he didn't come close to KO'ing Collins in 2 rounds.

McCallum was 1 weight "naturally" lighter than Eubank in 1990. Eubank was a middle, McCallum was a light middle moving up. McCallum would win titles above Super Middleweight in his career.

McCallum wasn't the quickest on his feet granted, but Eubank was no Roy Jones either. McCallum did win a decision (although yes, I thought he should have lost) against Herol Graham who was far far far more elusive than Chris. He caught up with Don Curry also and really all I need to say about McCallum is Michael Watson. This was a guy so strong that Eubank, on more than one occasion, thought he was on performance enhancing aids - McCallum completely outstrengthed him. Demolished him.

McCallum was never KO'd in his career, was he even ever put down? McCallum would have got to Chris.

1. Calzaghe
2. Eubank
3. Benn
4. Froch
5. Collins

Cant see it any other way. Although in terms of personal favourites I couldnt seperate Benn and Calzaghe. Thats a fight I would have loved to have seen. Dark Destroyer and SUper Joe in there at SMW. Love it

stujones wrote:McCallum was never KO'd in his career, was he even ever put down? McCallum would have got to Chris.

McCallum was only down once, when he was 40, at light heavyweight and vs a supreme 20something Roy Jones. The Bodysnatcher was a real iron man and the thought of him losing to Eubank is unthinkable! How would he lose to Eubank? HOW!?

stujones wrote:There is nothing "not to be sure" about - Eubank tried twice, and twice he didn't come close to KO'ing Collins in 2 rounds.

McCallum was 1 weight "naturally" lighter than Eubank in 1990. Eubank was a middle, McCallum was a light middle moving up. McCallum would win titles above Super Middleweight in his career.

McCallum wasn't the quickest on his feet granted, but Eubank was no Roy Jones either. McCallum did win a decision (although yes, I thought he should have lost) against Herol Graham who was far far far more elusive than Chris. He caught up with Don Curry also and really all I need to say about McCallum is Michael Watson. This was a guy so strong that Eubank, on more than one occasion, thought he was on performance enhancing aids - McCallum completely outstrengthed him. Demolished him.

McCallum was never KO'd in his career, was he even ever put down? McCallum would have got to Chris.

What a silly, exagerrant post.

Eubank was a natural, big light-heavy and Mike a small light-middle - at light-heavy MM had a big soft tummy. Eubank had a 12-pac at cruiser. They are different sized animals, plus Eubank was 10 years younger/stronger/fresher.

Graham was very, very evasive, but so was Eubank - Watson couldn't lay a glove on him for seven rounds in their first fight, and got in countless lead rights on Mike.

McCallum was better than Eubank - McCallum was better than anybody in terms of being an effortless puncher (even Sugar Ray Robinson), and countered below the shoulders brilliantly. But realistically, Eubank would've beaten him in 1990 with his foot movement and body strength, once he put punches together.

Watson didn't lay a glove on Eubank for 7 rounds in their first fight... and it was my post you considered silly.

I aint sure what Eubank and McCallum's age has got to do with any debate - we were taking 1990. Eubank 24/25, McCallum 33/34 - but a young 33/34. The fact is, despite being 10 years older, McCallum was world champion both before and after Eubank's reign - they were definately of the same generation and McCallum would GO ON to have some of his career best performances.

Eubank was considered, by many, as Mentally shot less than a year after the first Benn fight.

I aint sure how Eubank could be defined as a big light heavy, even at the tale end of his career he made Super Middleweight on a weeks notice - and won world titles at Middle and Super Middleweight, he certainly wasn't a weight drained Super Middleweight when given the preperation time.

Not sure why the judgement on his stomach muscles has anything to do with his walk around weight. Manny Pacquiao had stomach muscles at Light Middleweight, so that make him a big Light Middleweight? same with Sergio Martinez.

Mike was fat at light-heavy! It wasn't his natural weight darling.

Eubank used to lose 28lbs to make middleweight, and entered the ring at over 13st against Benn at MUFC with a shredded-to-bone physique.

coghaugen11 wrote:Mike was fat at light-heavy! It wasn't his natural weight darling.

Eubank used to lose 28lbs to make middleweight, and entered the ring at over 13st against Benn at MUFC with a shredded-to-bone physique.

Where did I say it was his natural weight. We are talking, or at least I am.... 1990 - when Eubank said he would knock him out in 5 rounds... at Middleweight the weight they both were when Eubank said this.

Would Eubank be still Mr Elusive after 8/9 rounds at Middleweight, or will the weight draining get to him.

In their first, Watson landed one right hand on Eubank, in R3, that was it, and it was almost like Eubank allowed him as he was leant down still. He couldn't even touch Eubank's head with his left glove. A clear Eubank win, the points scoring was very generous to Michael, believe it or not.

stujones wrote:

coghaugen11 wrote:Mike was fat at light-heavy! It wasn't his natural weight darling.

Eubank used to lose 28lbs to make middleweight, and entered the ring at over 13st against Benn at MUFC with a shredded-to-bone physique.

Where did I say it was his natural weight. We are talking, or at least I am.... 1990 - when Eubank said he would knock him out in 5 rounds... at Middleweight the weight they both were when Eubank said this.

Would Eubank be still Mr Elusive after 8/9 rounds at Middleweight, or will the weight draining get to him.

If it went that far, maybe not.

But McCallum may have given the fight to Eubank anyway, when he said back then 'The only way to beat Eubanks is to jump all over him' - that would've been uncharacteristic of Mike and playing into Eubank's hands.

loaded_gloves wrote:

stujones wrote:McCallum was never KO'd in his career, was he even ever put down? McCallum would have got to Chris.

McCallum was only down once, when he was 40, at light heavyweight and vs a supreme 20something Roy Jones. The Bodysnatcher was a real iron man and the thought of him losing to Eubank is unthinkable! How would he lose to Eubank? HOW!?

Graham dropped him, although I think it was discounted or ruled a slip. Tiozzo made him touch down too.

Jackson had Mike out on his feet in the 1st round, and that stoppage a round after was very dodgy - Julian standing and fine.

stujones wrote:

Gazmac81 wrote:i really cant see how anyone wouldnt have Calzaghe at the top
he was absouloutley phenominal boxer , great speed , Workrate , great chin too

always found a way to win and beat Bernard Hopkins who im sure everyone would rate better than any off these guys - even though some say Hopkins should have won and was old.

Good points, but I guess its how you view Calzaghe vs Eubank fight. Whilst Joe was green and inexperienced, Eubank was weight drained, late sub and past his prime also. Eubank was also without Ronnie Davies which I think was a massive factor.

It was one of those fights that while the judging was fair, it didn't reflect the contribution Eubank made. Alot of the rounds were relatively close, would Eubank without the rust (don't forget the ring rust also) be able to slip more of Calzaghe's shots, would he have been more accurate himself (Eubank thrived on being accurate)... questions, questions and more questions... thats why it is debated.

On your last paragraph - yep, Hopkins should have won and was old.

Benn was way past it when he fought Collins, his balance was shot to pieces. Eubank had lost a lot of his desire by then....

Eubank was very tight at the weight at middle and would have been vulnerable to a fearsome body puncher like McCallum. I think he was mindful of this and wanted no part of the Jamaican. After Eubank won the WBO belt, McCallum followed him around trying to entice him into the ring, but to no avail. I remember asking McCallum about Eubank and he said he would "take his space, break his face and chop off his head!"

Calzaghe
Eubank
Collins
Benn
Froch

Collins would have always beat Benn IMO and Calzaghe was the best british boxer I have seen

coghaugen11 wrote:1. Eubank
2. Calzaghe
3. Benn
4. Collins ('92 version)
5. Froch

1. Sakio Bika with a monocle.

Riiiight