BoxRec

jessi wrote:Super middle, ward present form, and calzaghe at his peak !
I really couldn't call anything else then a draw.
Thoughts ?

Calzaghe's work rate would see him through here.

Ward loves to counter punch, but Calzaghe's flurries would ensure that Ward could not do that successfully.

Calzaghe on points in a tough & close fight.

After seeing how (relatively) easily Ward got through the Super Six, I'd definitely favour him. Aside from the B Hop like strategies Ward would probably bring to the fight, I also think Calzaghe might have a problem with Ward's sheer physical strength. He manhandled Kessler, Bika and even Froch in a way I just couldn't imagine Joe being able to replicate.

milpool wrote:

bengulnaci1 wrote:to call this a routine win or dominant fight for Calzaghe, is absurd, really.

Amen brother.

x3. He fought only one opponent on Ward's level and was pushed very close.

Great fighter that J.C was, think it's safe to say he never fought anyone as good as Ward. It'd be a close one on points, Joe's work rate would keep things tight, but he'd be hard pressed to land much. Maybe his phenomenal will to win might have seen him throwing himself forwards to nick a points win. ( based on how close the US judges had Ward/Froch, where they seemed to give Carl rounds for just coming forward, and missing )

Ward has a far better boxing brain than Calzaghe, and a far better defence.

It's a bit early to say yet just how good ward is, but on current form, he's looking like he could be a hall of famer and possible all time great. He's got some way to go obviously, but his skills are superlative, and he's a tremendous athlete.

Joe relied on handspeed, volume of punches (probably his best asset), and contant movement.

Ward seems to be able to adapt to his opponents style, rather than relying on a single gameplan.

crusader wrote:

milpool wrote:

bengulnaci1 wrote:to call this a routine win or dominant fight for Calzaghe, is absurd, really.

Amen brother.

x3. He fought only one opponent on Ward's level and was pushed very close.

I dont think he ever fought anyone on Ward's level. I cannot think of a single opponent who had Ward's skillset. Kessler was Calzaghe's best win, and he had to fight hard to win - Ward absolutely wazzed all over Kessler, it wasn't even close. Sure, Kessler has had injury problems etc, but he was still good enough to beat Froch who is no slouch.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Ward has a far better boxing brain than Calzaghe, and a far better defence.

It's a bit early to say yet just how good ward is, but on current form, he's looking like he could be a hall of famer and possible all time great. He's got some way to go obviously, but his skills are superlative, and he's a tremendous athlete.

Joe relied on handspeed, volume of punches (probably his best asset), and contant movement.

Ward seems to be able to adapt to his opponents style, rather than relying on a single gameplan.

Good post James. Now I know I've probably said more than enough on this but I cannot help thinking how the Jeff Lacy performance has kind of skewed some people's perceptions of Joe.

Many are saying here - Joe easy, he would simply out work him with this tremendous engine and volume of punches. However, many people were saying when Joe fought OLD Bernard - "Joe easy - he's simply going to out work him and win with comfort".... "Bernard hardly threw anything against Taylor and still looked tired, how can he cope with Joe's work".

Sure, maybe (depends how you score it) - Joe's workrate edged him it in the end. However, it was never a repeat of the lacy performance - who was essentially a walking punch bag. Hopkins, for a large part, was able to not allow Joe to work and for a large part Joe didn't have an idea what to do and there was blind panic in the corner. Joe famed workrate and a million punches a round wasn't there or at least largely not there. Not because he was getting old, but because Hopkins is defensively far far far better than Lacy..... and Ward is also.

I never thought the massively over rated Lacy had a chance with Joe, so Kessler must have been his best opponent. Just a look at how Ward handled Kessler tells you all you need to know about how tough it would have been for J.C too.

I thought Lacy had no chance, but then saw him absolutely destroy the usually Iron Chinned Robin Reid - which made me change my mind - foolish in hindsight, but I was absolutely astonished he was able to do that to Reid - though with hindsight, Reid was past it, and he had a terrible training camp.

I need to see Ward in a few more fights, but so far, he's really looking almost unbeatable.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

crusader wrote:

milpool wrote: Amen brother.

x3. He fought only one opponent on Ward's level and was pushed very close.

I dont think he ever fought anyone on Ward's level. I cannot think of a single opponent who had Ward's skillset. Kessler was Calzaghe's best win, and he had to fight hard to win - Ward absolutely wazzed all over Kessler, it wasn't even close. Sure, Kessler has had injury problems etc, but he was still good enough to beat Froch who is no slouch.

You're probably right. I think some people believe that because Joe never lost he couldn't lose, and hence the predictions of one-sided beatdowns over excellent fighters like Ward.

bengulnaci1 wrote:As you have been doing. Which is fine, I am a big boy and can take it. Moving on, you won't change my opinion and others who hold the same opinion, so better to respect that, by all means voice your opinions and leave it at that.

I'm not here to insult anyone (and can't see anywhere I've attempted to), and I have no intention of changing your opinion. Of course i respect your opinions, I just disagree with the Kessler hand injury element. You say you've read reports etc which is fine. At the time of the fight there was speculation that Kessler had hurt his hand, which is why he was asked about it in the post fight interview. Kessler said it was not a factor. Now whether he said that to be gracious in defeat or because the hand injury actually was not a factor only he will know, but I'd rather go with that than some report that you say you saw after the fight. Unless the report was from an independent medical source and had X Rays or evidence to back it up I'd write it off as mere speculation. Besides with the fight being as competitive as it was if the only reason Kessler lost was a bad hand why didn't he push hard for a rematch? Although I won't go as far agreeing with Stu's draw scenario, I though Kessler fought hard enough to deserve a rematch anyway. It was a good fight and Joe won legitimately with no excuses, I personally believe that making an excuse for Kessler does nothing but belittle his very good effort.

I still think Calzaghe at his best beats Ward, but I agree with the opinion that a one sided beatdown would be ludicrous. Joe would have to be at his absolute best for every minute of every round and score a close decision.

kingfinn wrote:

stujones wrote:Well for my money, Ward did a better job against Kessler than Joe did. Styles make fights, and I think Ward's style would give Joe all kinds of problems. Kessler could catch Joe, regularly at the start of the fight. Ward's quicker than Mikkel, defensively better than Mikkel - and surprisingly strong (despite looking small) at the weight.

Both of them have fantastic unbeaten long records - I wouldn't think it is a forgone conclusion either way. I think it would be incredibly tough to call. For me though, when I see how they stood against the very best in their division - I would already say Ward has fought as many "elite" Super Middleweights as Joe did. I would say, bar Lacy (who was had his limitations) Ward has done a better job. Also, when I look at stylewise - I see the awkardness of Hopkins in there, the boxing brain of Hopkins in there - with better stamina and speed.

Ward is a lot better than Kessler who gave Joe a hard, hard fight. Its an incredibly tough call, but I would give the edge to Ward. At the moment, he looks the harder fighter to beat. He's fought different styles of fighters now and been equally comfortable beating the lot of them.

Ward did not fight the same kessler as calzaghe the guy was ring rusty and he's a bit shot, the fact he is still mentioned among the top SMW fighters only shows how good he actually was.

Watch the calzaghe fight then kesslers recent fights and see how flat footed he is now, also how that extra edge he had in speed and accuracy has gone.

You have to be different, Stu :)

Calzaghe, all day every day.

MightyWarrior wrote:I never thought the massively over rated Lacy had a chance with Joe, so Kessler must have been his best opponent. Just a look at how Ward handled Kessler tells you all you need to know about how tough it would have been for J.C too.

You may not have done but 70% of the guys on here had Calzaghe getting knocked out by him. He didn't win a round.

Speedy, high volume punchers, with stout chins and good recuperative skills are very hard to beat.

Ward looks good but at the moment you can't pick him to beat Calzaghe. I remember thinking Michael Nunn was the next Ray Leonard.

Ward's best asset, along with his acconplished skills, is that he isn't embarassed to win ugly.

Ezzard wrote:Speedy, high volume punchers, with stout chins and good recuperative skills are very hard to beat.

Ward looks good but at the moment you can't pick him to beat Calzaghe. I remember thinking Michael Nunn was the next Ray Leonard.

Ward's best asset, along with his acconplished skills, is that he isn't embarassed to win ugly.

good point.

I scored the froch fight by 2-3 rounds to ward but as stated before in the thread as a whole froch took a pasting but round by round it was only a few rounds to ward at best. As for ward vs calzaghe I gotta say calzaghe I think joe is a victim of his own ability. He was too good and because of this no one ever tested him and so he was accused of avoiding opponents. For me ward on Sunday morning was like watching a mayweatheresque disciplined performance but at his peak joe was untouchable and I wasn't even really a fan of joes