BoxRec

Odd how Jones Jr's fall from grace was predicted by the Nevada Commish once they had a test the results of which his lawyers could no longer wriggle out of.

nobby_nobbins wrote:

Quixall wrote: Calzaghe could do waht he did because his opponents allowed him to do so. You could see in the Hopkins fight how Bernard mastered Calzaghe for the first six rounds before he began to tire and Calzaghe came back at him for the second half of the fight, losing by one round IMO. That was too an old Bernard Hopkins, which puts Calzaghe's opponents in proper perspective.

Yes, but that was hardly a prime Calzaghe though was it? By that stage, Calzaghe's hands were ruined so he could only thrown pitty pat flurries. His granite chin was also starting to show cracks.

It was only a short while after he fought Kessler in which most people thought he produced some of his best work. I think we can say that Hopkins at 40 plus showed that the talents of Calzaghe were not as high as people pressumed. Calzaghe was a very good fighter, but a lot of his career is seen as it is becausehe remained undefeated. My point is that he Hopkins at 40 plus showed the blue print on how to beat Calzaghe, so a prime Roy Jones Jr would have surely done the same, but instead of gaining a bad decision as Hopkins did, would have beaten Calzaghe quite comfortably and mybe even stopped him. Calzaghe was very good, but boy, was he over-rated !! He should have crossed th Atlantic many years before and swapped that unbeaten record and two geriatric names for a few possible defeats and some top names in their own prime on his record.

stujones wrote:

big lennox wrote:A prime Eubank was a lot better than most of the guys Jones boxed.He would have stayed the distance and had his moments + we now know that roy used steroids, which tarnishes some of his achievements for me.

When? The failed urine test for the Richard Hall fight shows nothing. As his B sample (same pissed) passed through.

His first urine sample was reported as being 5 times over the limit, and was brushed under the carpet.For shame.

nobby_nobbins wrote:

Quixall wrote: Calzaghe could do waht he did because his opponents allowed him to do so. You could see in the Hopkins fight how Bernard mastered Calzaghe for the first six rounds before he began to tire and Calzaghe came back at him for the second half of the fight, losing by one round IMO. That was too an old Bernard Hopkins, which puts Calzaghe's opponents in proper perspective.

Yes, but that was hardly a prime Calzaghe though was it? By that stage, Calzaghe's hands were ruined so he could only thrown pitty pat flurries. His granite chin was also starting to show cracks.

I'd also add that Hopkins looked sensational in the fights before and after Calzaghe, but he ran out of steam against Joe.I think Calzaghe was an incredible talent and his win against Hopkins is better than anyone on Wards and Froch's resume as Hopkins is better than both those guys too. I think Calzaghe would have given a prime Jones Jnr fits as the fight wore on.

big lennox wrote:

stujones wrote:

big lennox wrote:A prime Eubank was a lot better than most of the guys Jones boxed.He would have stayed the distance and had his moments + we now know that roy used steroids, which tarnishes some of his achievements for me.

When? The failed urine test for the Richard Hall fight shows nothing. As his B sample (same pissed) passed through.

His first urine sample was reported as being 5 times over the limit, and was brushed under the carpet.For shame.

You could think it was brushed under the carpet, or there was some contamination that went on (ala Diane Modhal) as Richard Hall himself had the same issue.

Same piss measured again was deemed fine.

Jon Saxon wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote: Jones easy ko 6, most good chins get ruined by Jones just like Sugar Boy Malinga and Tony Thornton etc etc..

At SM Jones is the best in history, albeit a short history.

was he bollocks.

Name one.....no.. in fact who are you kidding mate? you can't re'write history.
Jones was perhaps the greatest skill to ever lace them up.

Now please do share us with your wisdom....

well smart arse instead of being a smug bellend you might have looked at the history books yourself. Calzaghe is clearly the best SMW theres ever been by a country mile - RJJ only ever won the IBF smw title. He was probably the greatest LHW of all time.

kingfinn wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

kingfinn wrote: was he bollocks.

Name one.....no.. in fact who are you kidding mate? you can't re'write history.
Jones was perhaps the greatest skill to ever lace them up.

Now please do share us with your wisdom....

well smart arse instead of being a smug bellend you might have looked at the history books yourself. Calzaghe is clearly the best SMW theres ever been by a country mile - RJJ only ever won the IBF smw title. He was probably the greatest LHW of all time.

Mate Jones beat an ATG (Toney) to win the title and was clearly the greatest SM in history. Larry Holmes at one point only held the IBF belt, belts mean nothing.
Jones was the man and everyone knows it except you.
I'm a huge Calzaghe fan,,HUGE fan but I'm not dumb.

Stop trying to dig yourself out of the slippery hole you made.

As for "smug bellend" I'm not here to make virtual friends I don't need them, I'm here to debate boxing with hardcore fans.

Jon Saxon wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
Name one.....no.. in fact who are you kidding mate? you can't re'write history.
Jones was perhaps the greatest skill to ever lace them up.

Now please do share us with your wisdom....

well smart arse instead of being a smug bellend you might have looked at the history books yourself. Calzaghe is clearly the best SMW theres ever been by a country mile - RJJ only ever won the IBF smw title. He was probably the greatest LHW of all time.

Mate Jones beat an ATG (Toney) to win the title and was clearly the greatest SM in history. Larry Holmes at one point only held the IBF belt, belts mean nothing.
Jones was the man and everyone knows it except you.
I'm a huge Calzaghe fan,,HUGE fan but I'm not dumb.

Stop trying to dig yourself out of the slippery hole you made.

As for "smug bellend" I'm not here to make virtual friends I don't need them, I'm here to debate boxing with hardcore fans.

Its not a debate toney wasnt an all time great super middle weight and neither is RJJ they acheived the vast majority of status from middle weight and LHW and in some instances HW. Toney won his smw title from iran barkley fought nobodies for a couple of years then lost to Jones Jr how does that make him an all time smw great? Jones beat toney for the belt fought a handful of nobodies then moved up to LHW to fight McCallum, how does that make him the greatest all time smw fighter?

Calzaghe dominated the division for 10 years was undefeated and won all four major titles and the ring belt. That makes him the number 1 smw fighter of all time not a debate a fact.

kingfinn wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

kingfinn wrote: well smart arse instead of being a smug bellend you might have looked at the history books yourself. Calzaghe is clearly the best SMW theres ever been by a country mile - RJJ only ever won the IBF smw title. He was probably the greatest LHW of all time.

Mate Jones beat an ATG (Toney) to win the title and was clearly the greatest SM in history. Larry Holmes at one point only held the IBF belt, belts mean nothing.
Jones was the man and everyone knows it except you.
I'm a huge Calzaghe fan,,HUGE fan but I'm not dumb.

Stop trying to dig yourself out of the slippery hole you made.

As for "smug bellend" I'm not here to make virtual friends I don't need them, I'm here to debate boxing with hardcore fans.

Its not a debate toney wasnt an all time great super middle weight and neither is RJJ they acheived the vast majority of status from middle weight and LHW and in some instances HW. Toney won his smw title from iran barkley fought nobodies for a couple of years then lost to Jones Jr how does that make him an all time smw great? Jones beat toney for the belt fought a handful of nobodies then moved up to LHW to fight McCallum, how does that make him the greatest all time smw fighter?

Calzaghe dominated the division for 10 years was undefeated and won all four major titles and the ring belt. That makes him the number 1 smw fighter of all time not a debate a fact.

Er your logic is impared somewhat I think.

When Jones was the champ NO ONE thought Calzaghe was a champ.
The ring, HBO, Boxing Monthly ALL had Jones at 1, so what the hell are you talking about??
AND If you want to talk belts Calzaghe was the WBO champ for 8/10 years so he wasnt the champ at all, HBO dont recognise the WBO belts and neither do I.
Tommy Morrison HW champ? tell that to Holyfield.
Calzaghe couldnt have laced Jones boots at SM.

WBO champs like Benn ,Eubank, Nelson, Harrison yada yada we NOT real world champs just euro guys with fake belts.

We all know who the real champs were at the time stop kidding yourself.

Jon Saxon wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
Mate Jones beat an ATG (Toney) to win the title and was clearly the greatest SM in history. Larry Holmes at one point only held the IBF belt, belts mean nothing.
Jones was the man and everyone knows it except you.
I'm a huge Calzaghe fan,,HUGE fan but I'm not dumb.

Stop trying to dig yourself out of the slippery hole you made.

As for "smug bellend" I'm not here to make virtual friends I don't need them, I'm here to debate boxing with hardcore fans.

Its not a debate toney wasnt an all time great super middle weight and neither is RJJ they acheived the vast majority of status from middle weight and LHW and in some instances HW. Toney won his smw title from iran barkley fought nobodies for a couple of years then lost to Jones Jr how does that make him an all time smw great? Jones beat toney for the belt fought a handful of nobodies then moved up to LHW to fight McCallum, how does that make him the greatest all time smw fighter?

Calzaghe dominated the division for 10 years was undefeated and won all four major titles and the ring belt. That makes him the number 1 smw fighter of all time not a debate a fact.

Er your logic is impared somewhat I think.

When Jones was the champ NO ONE thought Calzaghe was a champ.
The ring, HBO, Boxing Monthly ALL had Jones at 1, so what the hell are you talking about??
AND If you want to talk belts Calzaghe was the WBO champ for 8/10 years so he wasnt the champ at all, HBO dont recognise the WBO belts and neither do I.
Tommy Morrison HW champ? tell that to Holyfield.
Calzaghe couldnt have laced Jones boots at SM.

WBO champs like Benn ,Eubank, Nelson, Harrison yada yada we NOT real world champs just euro guys with fake belts.

We all know who the real champs were at the time stop kidding yourself.

Your posts are laughable, the yanks had that opinion when they sent over McClellan and look how well that turned out, a McClellan that beat RJJ in the AMs.

Also Jones moved out of the SMW in 96 and Calzaghe won his title in 97 so how was Jones ranked number 1 when calzaghe was world champion? What the hell are YOU talking about????!

kingfinn wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

kingfinn wrote: Its not a debate toney wasnt an all time great super middle weight and neither is RJJ they acheived the vast majority of status from middle weight and LHW and in some instances HW. Toney won his smw title from iran barkley fought nobodies for a couple of years then lost to Jones Jr how does that make him an all time smw great? Jones beat toney for the belt fought a handful of nobodies then moved up to LHW to fight McCallum, how does that make him the greatest all time smw fighter?

Calzaghe dominated the division for 10 years was undefeated and won all four major titles and the ring belt. That makes him the number 1 smw fighter of all time not a debate a fact.

Er your logic is impared somewhat I think.

When Jones was the champ NO ONE thought Calzaghe was a champ.
The ring, HBO, Boxing Monthly ALL had Jones at 1, so what the hell are you talking about??
AND If you want to talk belts Calzaghe was the WBO champ for 8/10 years so he wasnt the champ at all, HBO dont recognise the WBO belts and neither do I.
Tommy Morrison HW champ? tell that to Holyfield.
Calzaghe couldnt have laced Jones boots at SM.

WBO champs like Benn ,Eubank, Nelson, Harrison yada yada we NOT real world champs just euro guys with fake belts.

We all know who the real champs were at the time stop kidding yourself.

Your posts are laughable, the yanks had that opinion when they sent over McClellan and look how well that turned out, a McClellan that beat RJJ in the AMs.

Also Jones moved out of the SMW in 96 and Calzaghe won his title in 97 so how was Jones ranked number 1 when calzaghe was world champion? What the hell are YOU talking about????!

Yes he did leave in 96 but during his term he was seen universally as the real champ, whereas Joe for his time was not.

So what if McClellan beat Jones in the ams? Frankie Lyles ko'ed Jones in the ams, did you know that? hell Duane Bobick beat Larry Holmes twice as did Tilman beat Tyson twice so what's your point caller?

WBO titles mean nothing. I dont see James Kintchen as even a contender let alone a challenger.

I note you never responded to my points...dully noted.


So there you have it folks.. Roy Jones was the greatest SM in history and only a fool would argue against it.

Jon Saxon wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
Er your logic is impared somewhat I think.

When Jones was the champ NO ONE thought Calzaghe was a champ.
The ring, HBO, Boxing Monthly ALL had Jones at 1, so what the hell are you talking about??
AND If you want to talk belts Calzaghe was the WBO champ for 8/10 years so he wasnt the champ at all, HBO dont recognise the WBO belts and neither do I.
Tommy Morrison HW champ? tell that to Holyfield.
Calzaghe couldnt have laced Jones boots at SM.

WBO champs like Benn ,Eubank, Nelson, Harrison yada yada we NOT real world champs just euro guys with fake belts.

We all know who the real champs were at the time stop kidding yourself.

Your posts are laughable, the yanks had that opinion when they sent over McClellan and look how well that turned out, a McClellan that beat RJJ in the AMs.

Also Jones moved out of the SMW in 96 and Calzaghe won his title in 97 so how was Jones ranked number 1 when calzaghe was world champion? What the hell are YOU talking about????!

Yes he did leave in 96 but during his term he was seen universally as the real champ, whereas Joe for his time was not.

So what if McClellan beat Jones in the ams? Frankie Lyles ko'ed Jones in the ams, did you know that? hell Duane Bobick beat Larry Holmes twice as did Tilman beat Tyson twice so what's your point caller?

WBO titles mean nothing. I dont see James Kintchen as even a contender let alone a challenger.

I note you never responded to my points...dully noted.


So there you have it folks.. Roy Jones was the greatest SM in history and only a fool would argue against it.

Yes i did know that because unlike you i actually know what im taking about, you clearly thought RJJ and Calzaghe were super middle weights at the same time and are now trying like a drunk thumbing a softy into a prossy to "carry on regardless".

You're living in a fantasy land. Jones was the number 1 SMW when he was fighting at LHW??? Calzaghe only held the WBO title and ignoring he won the WBA, IBF, and WBC titles- the ring had RJJ as the best smw but Calzaghe was the 1st person to win a ring title in the super middle weight - how amazing! Why didnt the ring declare toney or RJJ smw champions? work that out on your own then you have the answer!

You're grasping at straws then declaring you've won a debate you've clearly been dicked in.

kingfinn wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

kingfinn wrote:
Er your logic is impared somewhat I think.

When Jones was the champ NO ONE thought Calzaghe was a champ.
The ring, HBO, Boxing Monthly ALL had Jones at 1, so what the hell are you talking about??
AND If you want to talk belts Calzaghe was the WBO champ for 8/10 years so he wasnt the champ at all, HBO dont recognise the WBO belts and neither do I.
Tommy Morrison HW champ? tell that to Holyfield.
Calzaghe couldnt have laced Jones boots at SM.

WBO champs like Benn ,Eubank, Nelson, Harrison yada yada we NOT real world champs just euro guys with fake belts.

We all know who the real champs were at the time stop kidding yourself.

Your posts are laughable, the yanks had that opinion when they sent over McClellan and look how well that turned out, a McClellan that beat RJJ in the AMs.

Also Jones moved out of the SMW in 96 and Calzaghe won his title in 97 so how was Jones ranked number 1 when calzaghe was world champion? What the hell are YOU talking about????!

Yes he did leave in 96 but during his term he was seen universally as the real champ, whereas Joe for his time was not.

So what if McClellan beat Jones in the ams? Frankie Lyles ko'ed Jones in the ams, did you know that? hell Duane Bobick beat Larry Holmes twice as did Tilman beat Tyson twice so what's your point caller?

WBO titles mean nothing. I dont see James Kintchen as even a contender let alone a challenger.

I note you never responded to my points...dully noted.


So there you have it folks.. Roy Jones was the greatest SM in history and only a fool would argue against it.

Yes i did know that because unlike you i actually know what im taking about, you clearly thought RJJ and Calzaghe were super middle weights at the same time and are now trying like a drunk thumbing a softy into a prossy to "carry on regardless".

You're living in a fantasy land. Jones was the number 1 SMW when he was fighting at LHW??? Calzaghe only held the WBO title and ignoring he won the WBA, IBF, and WBC titles- the ring had RJJ as the best smw but Calzaghe was the 1st person to win a ring title in the super middle weight - how amazing! Why didnt the ring declare toney or RJJ smw champions? work that out on your own then you have the answer!

You're grasping at straws then declaring you've won a debate you've clearly been dicked in.[/quote]


Mate have you been drinking? dont you follow this sport? can't you see how good Jones was??

You can't really think that Calzaghe was a better fighter than Jones? are you at the wind up?

BTW I fail to see the relevance of Jone's career path not crossing with Joe's eveyone knows it was around the benn/Eubank time that Jones was chap at SM...to quote Jones after his 1st defence "ready to go bell ding dong watch out Benn I'll get you like that to!"

Do you REALLY think I don't know my timelines, do you really believe that it isnt even a moot point in this discusion.
Is that all you got? ......surley not!!!


Come on mate you got owned admit it.

Jon Saxon wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
Er your logic is impared somewhat I think.

When Jones was the champ NO ONE thought Calzaghe was a champ.
The ring, HBO, Boxing Monthly ALL had Jones at 1, so what the hell are you talking about??
AND If you want to talk belts Calzaghe was the WBO champ for 8/10 years so he wasnt the champ at all, HBO dont recognise the WBO belts and neither do I.
Tommy Morrison HW champ? tell that to Holyfield.
Calzaghe couldnt have laced Jones boots at SM.

WBO champs like Benn ,Eubank, Nelson, Harrison yada yada we NOT real world champs just euro guys with fake belts.

We all know who the real champs were at the time stop kidding yourself.

Your posts are laughable, the yanks had that opinion when they sent over McClellan and look how well that turned out, a McClellan that beat RJJ in the AMs.

Also Jones moved out of the SMW in 96 and Calzaghe won his title in 97 so how was Jones ranked number 1 when calzaghe was world champion? What the hell are YOU talking about????!

Yes he did leave in 96 but during his term he was seen universally as the real champ, whereas Joe for his time was not.

So what if McClellan beat Jones in the ams? Frankie Lyles ko'ed Jones in the ams, did you know that? hell Duane Bobick beat Larry Holmes twice as did Tilman beat Tyson twice so what's your point caller?

WBO titles mean nothing. I dont see James Kintchen as even a contender let alone a challenger.

I note you never responded to my points...dully noted.


So there you have it folks.. Roy Jones was the greatest SM in history and only a fool would argue against it.

Yes i did know that because unlike you i actually know what im taking about, you clearly thought RJJ and Calzaghe were super middle weights at the same time and are now trying like a drunk thumbing a softy into a prossy to "carry on regardless".

You're living in a fantasy land. Jones was the number 1 SMW when he was fighting at LHW??? Calzaghe only held the WBO title and ignoring he won the WBA, IBF, and WBC titles- the ring had RJJ as the best smw but Calzaghe was the 1st person to win a ring title in the super middle weight - how amazing! Why didnt the ring declare toney or RJJ smw champions? work that out on your own then you have the answer!

You're grasping at straws then declaring you've won a debate you've clearly been dicked in.[/quote]


Mate have you been drinking? dont you follow this sport? can't you see how good Jones was??

You can't really think that Calzaghe was a better fighter than Jones? are you at the wind up?

BTW I fail to see the relevance of Jone's career path not crossing with Joe's eveyone knows it was around the benn/Eubank time that Jones was chap at SM...to quote Jones after his 1st defence "ready to go bell ding dong watch out Benn I'll get you like that to!"

Do you REALLY think I don't know my timelines, do you really believe that it isnt even a moot point in this discusion.
Is that all you got? ......surley not!!!


Come on mate you got owned admit it. [/quote]

you're a wierd one you've lost argument get over, i didnt say jones wasnt a better fighter i said he wasnt a better super middle weight than JC. It doesnt matter that jones said he would ko benn because he didnt fight any top british fighter until calzaghe and lost at LHW. Dont try and salvage your stupidity by changing the debate to who the better all time fighter was. I've said it numerous times before - RJJ at his LHW prime unbeatable, JC at his SMW prime unbeatable.

AND that wasnt even your argument! your argument was that RJJ was the greatest SMW of all time - which he clearly wasnt!

I'm loving this "Debate" it's what Boxrec is all about

To put the record straight, Roy Jones was the super-middleweight champion from roughly 1994-1996, before he moved up to light-heavyweight to take on Macallum. Jones' first fight at Super-middleweight was against Jomes Toney and then he had about another six fights (IBF) against fighters who were almost non-descript. At this time Calzaghe was in the early stages of his career and had fought around 10 to 15 fights. I think Kingfinn has a point that Calzaghe is perhaps one of the best super-middleweights that ever fought, but equally, Jon is correct in saying that Jones was far superior to Calzaghe in his prime years, whether that was at middleweight, super-middleweight or Light-Heavyweight.

Quixall wrote:I'm loving this "Debate" it's what Boxrec is all about

To put the record straight, Roy Jones was the super-middleweight champion from roughly 1994-1996, before he moved up to light-heavyweight to take on Macallum. Jones' first fight at Super-middleweight was against Jomes Toney and then he had about another six fights (IBF) against fighters who were almost non-descript. At this time Calzaghe was in the early stages of his career and had fought around 10 to 15 fights. I think Kingfinn has a point that Calzaghe is perhaps one of the best super-middleweights that ever fought, but equally, Jon is correct in saying that Jones was far superior to Calzaghe in his prime years, whether that was at middleweight, super-middleweight or Light-Heavyweight.

yeah its good bit of banter as long as he doesnt take my insults to heart im sure he hasnt, i personally think prime for prime Calzaghe would have beaten RJJ at SMW. He could adapt to any fighter, he had a real engine, granite chin and his hand speed was insane. Calzaghe for me peaked around 2000-2001 and probably didnt slide he should have fought Jermaine taylor at smw before retiring just to get the extra feather in his cap and get the extra recognition from the US, JC didnt suit LHW even though beat hopkins.

kingfinn wrote:

Quixall wrote:I'm loving this "Debate" it's what Boxrec is all about

To put the record straight, Roy Jones was the super-middleweight champion from roughly 1994-1996, before he moved up to light-heavyweight to take on Macallum. Jones' first fight at Super-middleweight was against Jomes Toney and then he had about another six fights (IBF) against fighters who were almost non-descript. At this time Calzaghe was in the early stages of his career and had fought around 10 to 15 fights. I think Kingfinn has a point that Calzaghe is perhaps one of the best super-middleweights that ever fought, but equally, Jon is correct in saying that Jones was far superior to Calzaghe in his prime years, whether that was at middleweight, super-middleweight or Light-Heavyweight.

yeah its good bit of banter as long as he doesnt take my insults to heart im sure he hasnt, i personally think prime for prime Calzaghe would have beaten RJJ at SMW. He could adapt to any fighter, he had a real engine, granite chin and his hand speed was insane. Calzaghe for me peaked around 2000-2001 and probably didnt slide he should have fought Jermaine taylor at smw before retiring just to get the extra feather in his cap and get the extra recognition from the US, JC didnt suit LHW even though beat hopkins.

I agree that joe was exceptional but I can't conceed that he would have beaten James Toney at SM.

This is where I get my point from.

Don't sweat it I don't take anything to heart...well maybe a wee bit

Jon Saxon wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

Quixall wrote:I'm loving this "Debate" it's what Boxrec is all about

To put the record straight, Roy Jones was the super-middleweight champion from roughly 1994-1996, before he moved up to light-heavyweight to take on Macallum. Jones' first fight at Super-middleweight was against Jomes Toney and then he had about another six fights (IBF) against fighters who were almost non-descript. At this time Calzaghe was in the early stages of his career and had fought around 10 to 15 fights. I think Kingfinn has a point that Calzaghe is perhaps one of the best super-middleweights that ever fought, but equally, Jon is correct in saying that Jones was far superior to Calzaghe in his prime years, whether that was at middleweight, super-middleweight or Light-Heavyweight.

yeah its good bit of banter as long as he doesnt take my insults to heart im sure he hasnt, i personally think prime for prime Calzaghe would have beaten RJJ at SMW. He could adapt to any fighter, he had a real engine, granite chin and his hand speed was insane. Calzaghe for me peaked around 2000-2001 and probably didnt slide he should have fought Jermaine taylor at smw before retiring just to get the extra feather in his cap and get the extra recognition from the US, JC didnt suit LHW even though beat hopkins.

I agree that joe was exceptional but I can't conceed that he would have beaten James Toney at SM.

This is where I get my point from.

Don't sweat it I don't take anything to heart...well maybe a wee bit

See i think Toney was over rated due to being american to an extent. I know that boxer A v Boxer B arguments dont generally hold water but look what benn did to iran barkley compared to toney. I think he was in the same league as Eubank and benn rather than above them, where as JC and RJJ were in a league of their own.

..double post.

kingfinn wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

kingfinn wrote: yeah its good bit of banter as long as he doesnt take my insults to heart im sure he hasnt, i personally think prime for prime Calzaghe would have beaten RJJ at SMW. He could adapt to any fighter, he had a real engine, granite chin and his hand speed was insane. Calzaghe for me peaked around 2000-2001 and probably didnt slide he should have fought Jermaine taylor at smw before retiring just to get the extra feather in his cap and get the extra recognition from the US, JC didnt suit LHW even though beat hopkins.

I agree that joe was exceptional but I can't conceed that he would have beaten James Toney at SM.

This is where I get my point from.

Don't sweat it I don't take anything to heart...well maybe a wee bit

See i think Toney was over rated due to being american to an extent. I know that boxer A v Boxer B arguments dont generally hold water but look what benn did to iran barkley compared to toney. I think he was in the same league as Eubank and benn rather than above them, where as JC and RJJ were in a league of their own.

I love the Benn Barkley fight it's one of my favourites BUT I have to say that Toney did a waaaaaaaaaaaaay better job than Benn, Toney was like a surgeon in that fight, perhaps the greatest infighting I have ever seen.

also the 3 KD rule did help Benn a bit (i was still jumping up and down during it)
Benn looked like a mad dog in that fight, what a great UK boxing moment

Jon Saxon wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
I agree that joe was exceptional but I can't conceed that he would have beaten James Toney at SM.

This is where I get my point from.

Don't sweat it I don't take anything to heart...well maybe a wee bit

See i think Toney was over rated due to being american to an extent. I know that boxer A v Boxer B arguments dont generally hold water but look what benn did to iran barkley compared to toney. I think he was in the same league as Eubank and benn rather than above them, where as JC and RJJ were in a league of their own.

I love the Benn Barkley fight it's one of my favourites BUT I have to say that Toney did a waaaaaaaaaaaaay better job than Benn, Toney was like a surgeon in that fight, perhaps the greatest infighting I have ever seen.

also the 3 KD rule did help Benn a bit (i was still jumping up and down during it)
Benn looked like a mad dog in that fight, what a great UK boxing moment

if there hadnt been he 3 kd rule he would have been ko'd before the end of the round anyway or start of the 2nd. Toney better boxer yeah but better fighter im not so sure. Id personally put him above Benn but below Eubank which im sure you will love ha ha.

kingfinn wrote:Calzaghe dominated the division for 10 years was undefeated and won all four major titles and the ring belt. That makes him the number 1 smw fighter of all time not a debate a fact.

Calzaghe did not dominate the division for 10 years, he stayed in Wales defending against men who were not top class. Between 1997 and 2005 he did not beat an elite opponent.

Do you honestly think RJJ or Toney could not have also beaten up stiffs for a decade defending a WBO belt?

You laughably hold their greater ambition against them in compating them to JC! The fact they moved up to mix it with far bigger men says a lot about them. Calzaghe hiding out in Wales..... ditto.

I will say this for Calzaghe, despite the poor level of opposition, Calzaghe always came into fights in shape and motivated, and thus never got beaten by someone he shouldn't have. That is one thing about the unbeaten record, it is impressive in it's own right, level of competition aside.

Toney on the other hand was capable on any given night of losing a fight he should have won.

Calzaghe was a great fighter, the problem is, we will never know just how good he was, because he only really fought the top flight guys right near the end of his career. The Hopkins fight stank, a win is a win, but it wasn't an impressive win at all in my book, he did well to frustrate and keep Hopkins negative, but i thought Calzaghe came off looking the loser. Early wins over Reid and Eubank were impressive, but for differing reasons the shine is taken off of both of them.

The sole really impressive win was over Kessler, Kessler went on to beat Froch who was in his prime, and Froch as we know is a very good fighter, if perhaps not quite a great one.

For me RJJ was the absolute best at 168, he was almost superhuman he was so quick and powerful, and he was virtually impossible to nail with a clean shot.

Roy would have eaten Calzaghe up, perhaps even stopped him, as Calzaghe's style was very aggressive and would have given Roy plenty of opportunities to counter.

Calzahe v Toney, again, I'd have to favour Toney. Too many wrinkles in his game.

Collins & Calzaghe beat Eubank 99 times out of 100 because they work too hard and are too active .. Mike Watson set the blueprint in that fateful return fight, simple really Eubank needed time or space-he anchored his feet or threw out of distance. (Its why Ray Close & Henry Wharton ran him closer than Lindell Holmes and Graciano Rocchi-the formers being a league below the latters, Styles.)

HOWEVER, Roy Jones didn`t have the style to come forward relentlessly throwing shots and style wise Eubank is an issue for Roy because he doesn`t initiate, he counters , he moves, he sways, he throws 6" or leaping shots either v.unreadable or v.readable no middle ground-v.difficult for ANY righthanded orthodox -6ft boxer-puncher to master Chris Eubank! I dont care if youre Roy Jones or not!


-STP

Roy Jones would have won every single round against Eubank. He would have made Eubank look like an amateur.