dariusz michalczweski vs roy jones

[Ambling Alp]

As usual we aren't on the same page, so I gues it's time to move on.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

As usual we aren't on the same page, so I gues it's time to move on.

There really isn't a page here, just right and wrong. Bye wrong.

[barry]

>>>I have no doubt that Michalczewski would have come here if they could give him a fat paycheck.<<<

DM would not come out of Germany to fight Jones! Jones offered to meet in England, but DM made money fighting fourth-rate WBO ranked fighters and former victims that Jones had destroyed and he did that making good money in Germany...DM wasn't going to disrupt that, especilly in a no-hope of winning bout against Jones! Jones, in his prime, would have boxed the ears off DM and would likely have stopped him in the later rounds! Jones in his prime was a top 10, maybe top 5 all-time great. He was on top for nearly 15 years. Benn didn't want anythiong to do with Jones, nor did much of anyone else below 175, where Jones was a truly vicious puncher. The only fighter that I think could have given Jones a real test and may have beat him is Gerald McClellan.

[Rover]

Reminds me of a certain top-rated pound-for-pounder going around today.

Jones would have embarrassed him.

[Rover]

jones had real talent i wished he fought nigel benn that would of been a cracker and should of retired after he beat john ruiz he'd already would of been inducted into the hall of fame instead of tarnishing his reputation.

Benn didnt want a bar of Jones, who already tarnished his rep by the time he battled Ruiz.

Benn was done after McClellan; he lost a year later to Malinga and twice to Collins. I'd have favored Jones in late 95 when the fight would've taken place.

[Rover]

why did it never happen??,my memories a bit foggy these days,but jones would never commit to it and the big pole called him out for years,bearing in mind jones was still very handy in those days i never did understand why he would`nt fight him

Probably had his people look into him, realised the guy had a pulse and looked elsewhere.

[Rover]

Dm simply refused to fight outside of Germany, so the bout would never happen! Jones would have easily dominated DM, which if you look over DM's career his title defense's are over C and B- fighters! Jones, in his prime, was one of the greatest fighters ever...period! Anyone that says different just simply do not like Jones personally, but anyone who has any "boxing sense" whatsoever, know that Jones was a one-of-akind fighter! He really was a middleweight who had to raise in weight to find competition...Sugar Ray Robinson did not have great success at light heavyweight, but I do rank Robinson as the best p4p fighter ever.

Jones is in the top ten discussion! As a middleweight Jones was absolutely brillant! A vicious puncher with unmatched speed and talent! Rarely ever did he lose a round! DM thought he was in the same class as Jones and felt he called the shots, so he would not come out of Germany and Jones would not go into Germany to face a possible decision...and rightly so! If Dm had really wanted the fight Jones made the compromise that he would fight in England, but DM refused! Jones would have dominated DM and likely would have stopped him late in the bout, but it would have been a lop-sided win for Jones...DM simply did not have the tools to handle Jones!

DM was a simple straight ahead fighter who compiled an impressive looking record in terms of numbers, but if a person really looks into the careers of his opposition they will quickly learn that going 47-0 is pretty easy when you constantly fight opposition that is a class, or two below you! DM hid behind the WBO belt! A look at the opponents each man faced and Jones was far, far more superior over said opposition than DM was and the opposition that Jones fought were actual true top ten ranked fighters...not a WBO top ten ranked!

Against Virgil Hill, DM won a decision...Jones knocked out Hill with one punch to the body. Montell Griffin...DM stopped him in 4, Jones in one and a loss in which Jones ko'd Griffin, but was DQ'd. Richard Hall, DM stopped on TKO due to swelling and another TKO, but both were close fights in which both fighters won nearly equal rounds...Jones did not lose a round in stopping Hall. Derrick Harmon was arguably the best win that DM had and that was an impressive win, but Jones had beat Harmon a year earlier...again...Jones did not lose a round against Harmon. Julio Cesar Gonzalez...DM losses a split decision and Jones wins a decision and again Jones wins nearly all except possibly one round! Jones was a true all-time great, DM was a solid fighter, but put DM against the likes of Tommy Loughran, Joey Maxim, Harold Johnson and a slew of other great light heavyweights and he losses! Jones against those same fighters wins a lot more than he losses!

Jones was really unbeatable for nearly 15 years and that was against the best that 160, 168 and 175 had to produce! Nigel Benn never wanted anything to do with Jones, nor did most other fighters who were trying to protect their record! Jones was the best super middleweight of all-time and he is top 5 best at both middleweight and light heavyweight! I think only Jones and Bob Fitzsimmons won both the middleweight world title and then heavyweight! If you don't like Jones that is understandable, but trying to claim that he was anything less than spectacular is simply just being dishonest! I cannot stand Floyd Mayweather Jr, but he is an all-time great and his record is stellar against top ranked opposition, but if I tried to claim that Mayweather, talent-wise, was simply average then I would be lying to myself and to others! Although I think he is a real jerk his talent is undeniable...and so was the talent of Roy Jones Jr.

DM went to 48-0, and Jones fought Hill at CW.

[Rover]

Jones barely lost a single round before losing to Tarver yet that's conveniently overlooked. I doubt anyone who was chinny could get through 40 odd fights without someone cracking it. And if you believe all the recent crap about his chin being bad then surely that's a testament to his pre Tarver career? I also remember seeing a HW in John Ruiz land one on the button and nothing happened

p.s Toney was beaten fair and square by Jones and so was Hopkins. Hopkins was also around 28 at the time and was the more experienced of the 2

I reckon re fighting the Haglers and Monzons etc, his biggest problem may have been going the 15 round distance. Most of the top guys would have still been there in the later rounds and if Jones was still there then he would have slowed in those last 3. It would have been interesting that's for sure

Agree with the first paragraph totally.
Dont agree with Hopkins being more experienced in 1993, that Hopkins was far less experienced hadnt had an amateur career to speak of, been in jail etc, started late etc.

Going the 15 round distance wouldnt have been his biggest problem with the monzons and Haglers. His biggest problem would have been those guys would have taught him a boxing lesson and his unorthodox style would have been like a big bouncing off a windshield. Hagler dealt handily with a Hearns who was in 85, as fast as RJJ in his peak, perhaps faster and a harder taller rangier puncher.

Wasn't Hopkins 95-4 as an amateur and a favorite to make the 84 Olympics before he went to prison?

[Rover]

To say that the great Roy Jones, Jr would have dominated Dariusz Michaelzewski if they would have fought back in 1998-99, would be to me a bunch of crap. DM was the best guy out there for Jones to fight at that weight class, and the fight did not happened. Jones was a great fighter in his prime, but I consider at least about 65 to 70 fighters all-time, pound per pound, better than he. He really did not risk to fight NOBODY after he fought Bernard Hopkins and James Toney. At least these two, risked to fight other dangerous opponents. Jones ALWAYS LOOKED THE EASY WAY OUT after he fought Toney. The competition was out there: Michael Nunn, Gerald McClellan, Steve Little, Dariuz M, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, and others.

You cannot put his triumph over a goofy-goofy fighter like John Ruiz as the same breath of victory of the great Bob Fitzsimmons vs James J. Corbett. Fitzsimmons beat the best heavyweight of the time. Jones did not. The best heavyweight of Jones' time was Lennox Lewis. And he did not fight him...Why? The EASY WAY OUT.

Jones fought Toney in November 94. McClellan had signed to fight Benn, and G-Man was finished obviously after that fight.
3 "great"s and 2 "best"s in one post...not bad.
And You should have mentioned Liles instead of Nunn and Little, considering Liles beat Little before Jones fought Toney.

[Rover]

The fight didn't happen because of money. It made fiscal sense in Germany and Roy wouldn't go there. Here, Jones was never a draw and while he had a cushy HBO contract that didn't guarantee big money for his opponent. So basically Dariusz was supposed to come here and fight Roy in front of 500 people for substantially less money than he got for packing a house in Germany.

While there are absolutes without being involved with talks, Jones has an extensive list of fighters that he didn't face. Michalczewski, Benn, Collins, Eubank, Liles & McClellan. People always like to justify it by saying Roy would have beaten them anyway. I'm sure if he never fought Tarver, fans would give him an easy win there too.

(except for G-Man; tragically, the opportunity for that fight was cut short)

[Rover]

His power was definitely too much for anyone in 160-168, and Jones was far from an exception.

The problem is landing it. McClellan was a plodding brawler, and absolutely EVERYONE hit him with EVERYTHING. You couldnt miss the guy, and he'd give Jones a target coming forward all day long.

As for what happened in 1995, matter of how you look at it. Asaro was certainly incompetent, but I dont call it a shame, personally. Every dog has its day, and all dogs, everywhere, had their day when that bout happened.

Its interesting to note Jones visited McClellan after the incident and reportedly vowed never to fall prey to a similar fate. If he keeps going the way he has been the last several years now, he'll be right alongside his old buddy.

Rooster one day, featherduster the next.

As to the last two sentences:

[Rover]

I thought I heard somwhere that the G-man beat Jones as an amateur.

Correct.

[Rover]

HBO couldn't handle the finances. It would bomb on PPV and Jones couldn't draw shit here and wouldn't fight there. Even if he would travel there was the problem of the time zones. The real reason that fight never happened was because Roy was shit as a draw. It was a Floyd/Hatton situation where Floyd had no viewership or ticket sales.

Though HBO now goes to Germany to televise Klit fights.

[Rover]

I was going to say, my memory of Jones was that he wasnt really a draw, though I wasnt completely sure off-hand.

He wasn't. Between Toney and Ruiz, he had three PPVS (Pazienza, Griffin II and Harding).
One PPVs for 5 years plus.

[Rover]

HBO would have had you believe that he was an "Esteemed Florida Sports Franchise" E.G. The Dolphins lol.

[Rover]

He wasn't a draw at all. Couldn't fill up seats and his PPV numbers were abysmal. Look at how many times he fought in Vegas. They took him on to different locations to try and get fans in the seats. HBO locked him up long term and paid him well. That's why he was fighting ham and eggers, they couldn't afford to pay top guys like Benn. McClellan, etc.. because Roy had guaranteed money and drew nothing. I have no doubt that Michalczewski would have come here if they could give him a fat paycheck. But HBO wasn't willing to take that kind of bath.

[Rover]

So it's your determination that he didn't fight in Vegas because he was such a big draw? That really makes sense to you? It was because he didn't sell tickets so the Casinos wouldn't put up the big bucks. That's just common sense.

By the time Roy got to where he could sell PPV's a bit, Dariusz was done. He did terrible numbers with Toney, Griffin, pazienza & Gonzalez. Knowing who someone is or watching them on your TV isn't the same as shelling out money specifically to see them. His dominance probably hurt him in that regard.

It's not like I'm calling Jones an unknown. But he would have wanted 10 million and I imagine Dariusz would want at least 5. 5,000 fans and 100,000 buys aren't anywhere near acceptable for that kind of coin.

[jezzamundo]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but the first Montell Griffin fight is surely a mark against Roy Jones's greatness. Jones did seem to be on his way to stopping Griffin before the DQ, but until then it was a highly competitive fight - one judge had Griffin ahead, the other two had it close and Griffin had clearly outlanded Jones throughout the fight. Griffin was a good light heavyweight, but certainly not great and for eight rounds he gave RJJ all he could handle. Of course, Jones destroyed Griffin in a single round in the rematch, but for me, the first eight rounds of the Griffin fight still count against him when considering his ATG status.

[Rover]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but the first Montell Griffin fight is surely a mark against Roy Jones's greatness. Jones did seem to be on his way to stopping Griffin before the DQ, but until then it was a highly competitive fight - one judge had Griffin ahead, the other two had it close and Griffin had clearly outlanded Jones throughout the fight. Griffin was a good light heavyweight, but certainly not great and for eight rounds he gave RJJ all he could handle. Of course, Jones destroyed Griffin in a single round in the rematch, but for me, the first eight rounds of the Griffin fight still count against him when considering his ATG status.

Griffin was shutting out DM until the stoppage.
What did others think of that stoppage?

[jezzamundo]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but the first Montell Griffin fight is surely a mark against Roy Jones's greatness. Jones did seem to be on his way to stopping Griffin before the DQ, but until then it was a highly competitive fight - one judge had Griffin ahead, the other two had it close and Griffin had clearly outlanded Jones throughout the fight. Griffin was a good light heavyweight, but certainly not great and for eight rounds he gave RJJ all he could handle. Of course, Jones destroyed Griffin in a single round in the rematch, but for me, the first eight rounds of the Griffin fight still count against him when considering his ATG status.

Griffin was shutting out DM until the stoppage.
What did others think of that stoppage?

It was a bit early, especially considering how little time there was left in the round, although I think DM would have got to him again eventually so it wouldn't have changed the result had he been allowed to continue.

For the record, I think RJJ stops DM in the middle rounds if they had fought in the late 90s or early 00s. I just don't think RJJ is an all-time great light heavyweight.

[man]

they were far enough away from each other to be allowed to
kind of duck each other. they saw each other as a dangerous
opponent and did not really pursue the fight. i believe that
towards the end of his career dariusz would have welcome the
fight for being the biggest payday for him, but by then jones
didn't need to take the fight and jones, as far as i know was
never famous for digging for the best out there.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That's the problem, it wouldn't have been a bigger payday for him unless the fight was in Germany.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but the first Montell Griffin fight is surely a mark against Roy Jones's greatness. Jones did seem to be on his way to stopping Griffin before the DQ, but until then it was a highly competitive fight - one judge had Griffin ahead, the other two had it close and Griffin had clearly outlanded Jones throughout the fight. Griffin was a good light heavyweight, but certainly not great and for eight rounds he gave RJJ all he could handle. Of course, Jones destroyed Griffin in a single round in the rematch, but for me, the first eight rounds of the Griffin fight still count against him when considering his ATG status.

Griffin was a good fighter.

[man]

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet, but the first Montell Griffin fight is surely a mark against Roy Jones's greatness. ... Of course, Jones destroyed Griffin in a single round in the rematch, but for me, the first eight rounds of the Griffin fight still count against him when considering his ATG status.

every ATG had tough rounds against certain opponents.
not every one finally took such opponent out convincingly.
so in my book i rather see that as a pro on his claim for
ATG status.

[Rover]

That's the problem, it wouldn't have been a bigger payday for him unless the fight was in Germany.