What Their Records SHOULD Read...

[Sportofkings]

Marquez did not win the fight with John imo, I had it 114-112 to John, being fair to both fighters, but that included the two points taken away from Juan Manuel because of low blows, which were a bit harsh. A draw would have been a good decision. but you cant really complain about the fight going to John, especially in his backyard, and when Marquez didnt press the fight enough. John did land consistently on Juan and did his share of damage. One of Chris's best performances actually.

Reggie Johnson's record certainly deserves some reconsideration imo, he clearly beat James Toney and many of his other losses were debatable to say the least.

[klompton]

Reggie johnson is a good call. I also think tony thornton deserves mention.

[Goodnight, Irene]

In a situation where Foreman is bribing Bob Lee Sr. to get Axel Schulz ranked and the wont give him a rematch when he gets a gift decision (and yes that decision was a robbery, Foreman lost nearly every round), yes, I do side with the sanctioning body. Give me one good reason why Foreman should been allowed to just go on fighting bums just to extend his record and keep the money flowing in. Who is Foreman? Why should he get special privileges? This is a guy who flat out admitted he was ducking Riddick Bowe and Lennox Lewis on live television and you want to stand behind his flimsy claim in order to legitimize Lewis? O...K.... Like I said, he made a mockery of what it means to be a champ.

George spent the better part of two careers ducking guys. He certainly avoided every contender on his way to "earning" his shot against Holyfield during his second career. I do think he fought a very good fight against Holy, but geez, he had absolutely no one on his resume prior to that, besides a bloated CW who mysteriously quit on his stool and a fringe contender who also decided to bow out early.

His first career was also extremely well managed as his management severely throttled back his competition after he nearly got upset by a past his best LH. Just look at the guys he fought between the 2nd Peralta fight and his blitzing of Frazier. There is a very good reason why he was a pretty big underdog against Frazier despite a 37-0 record. Of course I give him great credit for taking on Lyle in his comeback after getting schooled by Ali, but I think at that point his management realized that he needed some accomplishment after Ali to have any chance at the really big payday again, since there was little public demand for a Foreman-Ali rematch. That, plus Lyle wasn't exactly noted for his defense.

Go, go gadget reach through the screen and slap this imbecile

[Goodnight, Irene]

Shane Mosley...

Is: 46-8-1
Should Be: 45-10-0

Lost his rematch with De La Hoya & his, "draw," with Mora.

[Sportofkings]

Ike Quartey

Record-37-4-1.

Should be 39-2-1. He beat De La Hoya and was robbed of a victory against Forrest. Its been years since I saw the Lopez fight but I think I gave him a razor close win there to. But I wouldnt complain about that fight going to either man.

[elmersalsa]

With respect to Reggie Diggs, who has this thread going in Current Scene.

This shouldnt be a case where you edit a mans record just because you scored a bout which was totally debatable the other way than the judges. It should change for clear, poor calls.

Juan Manuel Marquez...

Is: 54-6-1
Should Be: 56-5-0

He won those fights with John & Pacquiao (2011), and lost the first Pacquiao fight.

Muhammad Ali...

Is: 56-5-0
Should Be: 54-7-0Plain losses to Young & Norton (1976).

Oscar De La Hoya...

Is: 39-6-0
Should Be: 40-5-0

Clearly deserved the nod against Trinidad & Mosley (2003), but lost to Sturm. Very close calls against Whitaker & Quartey which were not robberies.

Evander Holyfield...

Is: 42-10-2
Should Be: 42-12-0

Lost his draws with Lewis & Ruiz.

Pernell Whitaker...

Is: 40-4-1
Should Be: 42-3-0

Plainly beat Ramirez (I) & Chavez. Did not clearly lose a match until Trinidad, in his penultimate career fight (though I did have him marginally edged out against De La Hoya).

For Ali, it should be really read: 53-8....He lost to Frazier, Norton 3 times, Young, Spinks, Holmes and Berbick

[theone]

Reggie Johnson's record certainly deserves some reconsideration imo, he clearly beat James Toney and many of his other losses were debatable to say the least.

Did you actually see this fight? I have a hard time believing anyone who saw the fight believes Johnson won it CLEARLY. I had Toney by two points, a draw i would have probably thought a bad decision but far from a robbery. Clear Johnson win? Bullshit.

Now Dave Tiberia is a different story. He CLEARLY should have been awarded his match with Toney.

[Goodnight, Irene]

With respect to Reggie Diggs, who has this thread going in Current Scene.

This shouldnt be a case where you edit a mans record just because you scored a bout which was totally debatable the other way than the judges. It should change for clear, poor calls.

Juan Manuel Marquez...

Is: 54-6-1
Should Be: 56-5-0

He won those fights with John & Pacquiao (2011), and lost the first Pacquiao fight.

Muhammad Ali...

Is: 56-5-0
Should Be: 54-7-0Plain losses to Young & Norton (1976).

Oscar De La Hoya...

Is: 39-6-0
Should Be: 40-5-0

Clearly deserved the nod against Trinidad & Mosley (2003), but lost to Sturm. Very close calls against Whitaker & Quartey which were not robberies.

Evander Holyfield...

Is: 42-10-2
Should Be: 42-12-0

Lost his draws with Lewis & Ruiz.

Pernell Whitaker...

Is: 40-4-1
Should Be: 42-3-0

Plainly beat Ramirez (I) & Chavez. Did not clearly lose a match until Trinidad, in his penultimate career fight (though I did have him marginally edged out against De La Hoya).

For Ali, it should be really read: 53-8....He lost to Frazier, Norton 3 times, Young, Spinks, Holmes and Berbick

What about Oscar's record?

[elmersalsa]

Well with Oscar, I know without a doubt he beat Trinidad. None of the two were impressive enough to me that night. So for Oscar, I got his record at fairly:
39-5-1

He beat Mosley in the second fight.
the fight with Whitaker should be a draw. I don't see how they gave him the nod. None of the two did anything.

He lost to Bernard Hopkins, Shane Mosley (fight #1), Manny Pacquiao, Floyd Mayweather, Jr and Felix Sturm

[Sportofkings]

Reggie Johnson's record certainly deserves some reconsideration imo, he clearly beat James Toney and many of his other losses were debatable to say the least.

Did you actually see this fight? I have a hard time believing anyone who saw the fight believes Johnson won it CLEARLY. I had Toney by two points, a draw i would have probably thought a bad decision but far from a robbery. Clear Johnson win? Bullshit.

Now Dave Tiberia is a different story. He CLEARLY should have been awarded his match with Toney.

I did see the fight, and was fair in my scoring, never particularly liked either guy over the other. I scored it 115-112 for Johnson, so clear enough imo, that knock down pretty much sealed it in my eyes

Dave Tiberi certainly was robbed aswell, I scored that one 115-111 I think for Dave, and had he got the decision it would have been a big upset. Come to think of it, Toney had a number of controversial wins on his record.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Cole seems to be struck by amnesia D

Indeed, though, I need to make an amendment to Holyfield's record.

Is --- 42-10-2
Should Be --- 43-11-0

Should have been the loser in his draws with Lewis and Ruiz, should have been the winner in his loss to Valuev.

As a side-note, is anybody else quite surprised by how few bouts Holyfield has had in his career? 53 contests in 28 years!? Strange. More than half of those had taken place by the end of 1991, just seven years into his career.

Pick up the pace, old man!!! D

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He actually should have lost his win against Ruiz and he knocked Ruiz out in his loss. I thought Holyfield won the draw, but it was close enough to call even. Mosley/Dlh 2 was much closer than Whitaker/Dlh, though I agree Oscar won.

[Goodnight, Irene]

He actually should have lost his win against Ruiz and he knocked Ruiz out in his loss. I thought Holyfield won the draw, but it was close enough to call even. Mosley/Dlh 2 was much closer than Whitaker/Dlh, though I agree Oscar won.

Its possible I am mistaking the Holyfield-Ruiz draw for the bout you mentioned. Its been some time, and each contest was as boring as the others (Ruiz the pest).

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He actually should have lost his win against Ruiz and he knocked Ruiz out in his loss. I thought Holyfield won the draw, but it was close enough to call even. Mosley/Dlh 2 was much closer than Whitaker/Dlh, though I agree Oscar won.

Its possible I am mistaking the Holyfield-Ruiz draw for the bout you mentioned. Its been some time, and each contest was as boring as the others (Ruiz the pest).

You definitely are, Evander was the deserving winner of the draw on more cards. The second fight he knocked Ruiz out with a body shot and the sissy faked it into a 5 minute break. Ruiz won the initial fight and dropped the dec.

Holy should be 44-10

[Goodnight, Irene]

Joe Frazier...

Is: 32-4-1
Should Be: 32-5-0

He lost, close but clear, to Jumbo Cummings.

Joe Louis...

Is: 66-3-0
Should Be: 65-4-0

Beaten in that first outing against Walcott.

Joe Walcott...

Is: 51-18-2
Should Be: 52-17-2

Beat Louis in 1947.

Julio Cesar Chavez...

Is: 107-6-2
Should Be: 107-8-0

Lost his draws with Whitaker and Randall (along with his dignity).

Ray Leonard...

Is: 36-3-1
Should Be: 36-4-0

What were they watching in that Hearns rematch!?

[Goodnight, Irene]

Ike Quartey

Record-37-4-1.

Should be 39-2-1. He beat De La Hoya and was robbed of a victory against Forrest. Its been years since I saw the Lopez fight but I think I gave him a razor close win there to. But I wouldnt complain about that fight going to either man.

For me, Ike Quartey...

Is: 37-4-1
Should Be: 39-3-0

I twice scored his clash with De La Hoya a draw, so to me, that result can stand as legitimate. However, he deserved the nod in, "losing," to Forrest, and IMO beat Lopez by enough for the draw to be called unjust.

Floyd Patterson...

Is: 55-8-1
Should Be: 58-6-0

Robbed blind against Maxim and Ellis --- the latter cost Patterson a place in history as the inaugural 3-time Heavy champ. He also beat Quarry in their initial meeting, but was lumbered with an unfair draw.

Jimmy Young...

Is: 34-19-2
Should Be: 37-18-0

He beat Ali, and he did the same in draws with Aird and Shavers.

[theone]

Julio Cesar Chavez...

Is: 107-6-2
Should Be: 107-8-0

Lost his draws with Whitaker and Randall (along with his dignity).

Chavez didn't draw with Randall; his draws were against Whitaker and Miguel Angel Gonzalez.
Sweet Pea beat him but I felt Chavez clearly won his bout with Gonzalez.

[hhaehre]

Joe Frazier...
Joe Walcott...

Is: 51-18-2
Should Be: 52-17-2

Beat Louis in 1947.

Walcott lost the last fight with Charles imo

[Goodnight, Irene]

You two are right about Chavez and Walcott. I should stop running off memory on a site like this.