BoxRec

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Bowe would never beat Ali. Id give Marciano better odds.

Foreman would have to get Hail Mary lucky.

I think Bowe could beat anyone.

Crease wrote:Definitely Marciano.

Frazier, as great as he was, was very one-handed - all his power shots came from his Left - left hook to the body, left hook to the head.

Whereas Rocky had KO power in both of his fists. I would also say that Marciano had a better defence than Frazier, he was difficult to hit with the jab (as Ali said himself in 1970/1 when filming for the Superfight between them) and Marciano had probably the greatest engine in boxing.

So yeah, looking at it all... Everything points to a Marciano victory for me.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Giancarlo wrote:

foxy01 wrote:I am a great fan of Joe, but no way will i be convinced he wins if it was him in the other corner as opposed to either Ernie Terrell, or Zora Folly at those times. Ali was too good, too fast, and more importantly too elusive for Joe then.

100% correct!

Nothing proves you will whip Frazier like defeating Ernie Terrell and a washed-up Zora Folley, I guess. You two knuckleheads forgot to add his crowning glory...Cleve Williams

"100% correct!"

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Crease wrote:Definitely Marciano.

Frazier, as great as he was, was very one-handed - all his power shots came from his Left - left hook to the body, left hook to the head.

Whereas Rocky had KO power in both of his fists. I would also say that Marciano had a better defence than Frazier, he was difficult to hit with the jab (as Ali said himself in 1970/1 when filming for the Superfight between them) and Marciano had probably the greatest engine in boxing.

So yeah, looking at it all... Everything points to a Marciano victory for me.

One of Boxing's most enduring myths.

Go and ask Ali (and most other Frazier victims) if their ribs hurt on only one side after fighting Frazier.

Giancarlo wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Giancarlo wrote:
100% correct!

Nothing proves you will whip Frazier like defeating Ernie Terrell and a washed-up Zora Folley, I guess. You two knuckleheads forgot to add his crowning glory...Cleve Williams

"100% correct!"

Bend over again, Irene. It's time for your oil change.

Giancarlo wrote:Irene, stop with the PMs already!

No, I don't want to be involved in a troika with you and Antoine from your modern dance group any time soon.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Bowe would never beat Ali. Id give Marciano better odds.

Foreman would have to get Hail Mary lucky.

I think Bowe could beat anyone.

Ezzard wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Ezzard wrote: That's a fair list. Ali would be favourite in most but they all could win.

Frazier and Louis are the only ones I would favor, but only slightly. Anyone who thinks Clay could fight that whole list and win every fight has lost their mind.

I'd also put Holyfield on the list.

The man I'd back for the upset would be Walcott.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ezzard wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Frazier and Louis are the only ones I would favor, but only slightly. Anyone who thinks Clay could fight that whole list and win every fight has lost their mind.

I'd also put Holyfield on the list.

The man I'd back for the upset would be Walcott.

Walcott is a sneaky shout with some real credibility to it, but of all the guys on my top-10 list of ATG Heavies, I have to say Holyfield has the least chance of upsetting Ali. I just cant see him ever beating Ali with his tools, personally.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Ezzard wrote: I'd also put Holyfield on the list.

The man I'd back for the upset would be Walcott.

Walcott is a sneaky shout with some real credibility to it, but of all the guys on my top-10 list of ATG Heavies, I have to say Holyfield has the least chance of upsetting Ali. I just cant see him ever beating Ali with his tools, personally.

No way he beats the earlier version we are speaking of. A prime Holyfield against the older lay on the ropes guy would be ugly for Ali. But that's not really fair to Muhammad, so I left Evander off of the list. As for Bowe, you could be right, he was quite nasty at his best. A jab that could measure up to Ali's and a terrific in-fighter. While I wouldn't rate his chances high, that package is too much for me to completely rule out. I'd have more names of guys that could, the Ali love in this forum is other worldly.

Ezzard wrote:Holy had a terrific left hook, doesn’t fade, is mentally strong, good mobility. I think he has a chance. Ali won’t break his will. He will have to outbox him over 15. I think he’d do it but it wouldn’t be easy.

foxy01 wrote:

yancey wrote:

foxy01 wrote:LMAO, at the above.

That is probably K.M.hangovers whole point which I tend to agree with. The 67 version of Ali could have danced in hit Joe 3, 4 shots and be gone to bust Joe up and build a comfortable enough lead to take into the later rounds. The slower less mobile post 70 version simply couldn't.

Do you honestly think Ali was stupid enough to stand and fight Joe in their trilogy because he WANTED to? The legs to evade punches were just not there anymore. Even the version of Clay that refused to stand and trade with Liston would have given Joe nightmares, albeit that Joe was quicker on his feet and better at cutting off the ring than Sonny.

Just look at the few times Ali did dance around in the Frazier fights, frustrating Joe into standing up straight and shaking his head, beckoning Ali in. His bobbing and weaving his way in was only good when Ali was stationary, going back in straight lines, or on the ropes allowing Joe to get close and do what Joe does. His lateral movement ( Ali's ) was pretty much non existent post 70.

LMAO at the above.

Ali was all of 29 for the FOTC. The legs weren't gone.

Ali-Frazier is ALWAYS a tough fight for both men. Either COULD win. Frazier's style is made to order to always trouble the more physically gifted Ali.

No "all day long" whipping the other guy for either fighter. Anybody that believes that simply does not know what they are talking about.

That is pure garbage. The man had had an enforced 3 year lay off. Of course the legs were gone, along with the footspeed they created.

Ezzard wrote:His legs were gone. He was just a torso on a skateboard at that point. Like the little fella in that one horse town in "The Good, The Bad And The Ugly." Or that bald guy at the end of the video game "Smash TV". Or Davros from Doctor Who.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Funny how Ali's legs being gone coincided with Frazier beginning to turn the tide after a slow start in the FOTC. In the early going, before Frazier had reined him in, Ali's legs showed plenty of bounce and mobility.

Someone arguing Ali had lost some footspeed or mobility is fair enough...someone arguing his, "legs were gone," immediately post-layoff can kiss Joe Frazier's left hook

foxy01 wrote:

hhaehre wrote:

foxy01 wrote:


I'm sure that after seeing Chuvalo KO such luminaries as Jim Christopher, Charley Chase, Mike Bruce, Charlie reno and other assorted bugs and earwigs, Ali was terrified to go to the ropes, and punch old George for fun.

As you say, go figure.

Yeah, I'm sure Ali just toyed with Chuvalo all night long and was never touched at all. He had to visit the hospital after the fight though, go figure.

He also had to go to the hospital to have his eye stitched when Bob Foster cut it with a punch. So your point is?

hhaehre wrote:

foxy01 wrote:

hhaehre wrote: Yeah, I'm sure Ali just toyed with Chuvalo all night long and was never touched at all. He had to visit the hospital after the fight though, go figure.

He also had to go to the hospital to have his eye stitched when Bob Foster cut it with a punch. So your point is?

Let me spoon feed my point to you real slow:
Fact 1: Chuvalo hit the unbeatable dancing Ali of the 60's with enough body punches to warrant a post fight trip to the hospital.

Fact 2: Frazier was a far better boxer than Chuvalo and a much harder puncher

Conclusion based on fact 1 and fact 2: Frazier would get to unbeatable dancing Ali of the 60's and win, loose or draw Ali would know he had been in a fight.

Btw, how many stitches did Joe need after his 4 minute destruction of Foster?

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Read my post again.