BoxRec

So Glynn , are you in favour of the fight going ahead under these circumstances or not ? You are a long established editor of the Boxing Monthly and are not afraid to voice your opinion. Do you support it ?

This type of situation is EXACTLY why we have so many world bodies ,every one emerged from a similar conflict of interest . So , in my opinion , ANYONE who thinks it should go ahead is indirectly condoning the proliferation of organisations which have ruined professional boxing and made us all a laughing stock in the mainstream media and general public . There can be little doubt that all those involved will be suspended and the only option is for a rival British organisation , and indeed a rival European organisation , to emerge alongside the WBC WBA IBF WBO WBF and every other rag tag group who is looking for sanctioning fees . Come on Glynn , look beyond 14 July and see the chaos to follow .

I think most people would like to see Chisora v Haye but it must be done in the right way.
Allowing rogue organisations to dictate this sport is a disaster waiting to happen and you must look beyond this fight.
If both fighters eat a bit of humble pie and then adhere to the rules and spirit of this sport I do not see any reason why they cannot be licensed and fight at a later date.
Many people do not see the BBBoC as perfect and many license holders have genuine gripes but I think the BBBoC must be backed as they are still the best body to run this dangerous sport in Britain.
Having little regulation under rogue organisations would be the beginning of the end.
I hope the BBBoC will use this opportunity to get their house in order too.

Coco wrote:I think most people would like to see Chisora v Haye but it must be done in the right way.
Allowing rogue organisations to dictate this sport is a disaster waiting to happen and you must look beyond this fight.
If both fighters eat a bit of humble pie and then adhere to the rules and spirit of this sport I do not see any reason why they cannot be licensed and fight at a later date.
Many people do not see the BBBoC as perfect and many license holders have genuine gripes but I think the BBBoC must be backed as they are still the best body to run this dangerous sport in Britain.
Having little regulation under rogue organisations would be the beginning of the end.
I hope the BBBoC will use this opportunity to get their house in order too.

that hits it on the head for me and my stance

Coco wrote:Maybe they consider the Austrian federation more ligitimate than a federation without any fighters and run off the back of a mobile phone in South London

Well put

Coco wrote:I think most people would like to see Chisora v Haye but it must be done in the right way.
Allowing rogue organisations to dictate this sport is a disaster waiting to happen and you must look beyond this fight.
If both fighters eat a bit of humble pie and then adhere to the rules and spirit of this sport I do not see any reason why they cannot be licensed and fight at a later date.
Many people do not see the BBBoC as perfect and many license holders have genuine gripes but I think the BBBoC must be backed as they are still the best body to run this dangerous sport in Britain.
Having little regulation under rogue organisations would be the beginning of the end.
I hope the BBBoC will use this opportunity to get their house in order too.

Warren needs to fight done now as allegedly needs to boost subscribers before the Olympics. If Anthony Joshua wins gold, no one will be talking about Haye and Chisora

gobbles wrote:

Coco wrote:Maybe they consider the Austrian federation more ligitimate than a federation without any fighters and run off the back of a mobile phone in South London

Well put

Thats not the point, they shouldnt be allowed to play favourites, if they didnt rate the Lux board they shouldnt have accepted them as members in the 1st place. Now its a case of the BBBofC have strong links with the EBU ie having a BBBofC member as the vice president of the EBU so they are pulling strings. If anything its a conflict of interests, FW will win any court case, question is will the fight still go ahead in the mean time?

kingfinn wrote:

gobbles wrote:

Coco wrote:Maybe they consider the Austrian federation more ligitimate than a federation without any fighters and run off the back of a mobile phone in South London

Well put

Thats not the point, they shouldnt be allowed to play favourites, if they didnt rate the Lux board they shouldnt have accepted them as members in the 1st place. Now its a case of the BBBofC have strong links with the EBU ie having a BBBofC member as the vice president of the EBU so they are pulling strings. If anything its a conflict of interests, FW will win any court case, question is will the fight still go ahead in the mean time?

If this goes all the way in high court, and fwank wins damages, the board should refuse to pay, put their own limited company into receivership, set up another one, and carry on, business as usual

kingfinn wrote:

gobbles wrote:

Coco wrote:Maybe they consider the Austrian federation more ligitimate than a federation without any fighters and run off the back of a mobile phone in South London

Well put

Thats not the point, they shouldnt be allowed to play favourites, if they didnt rate the Lux board they shouldnt have accepted them as members in the 1st place. Now its a case of the BBBofC have strong links with the EBU ie having a BBBofC member as the vice president of the EBU so they are pulling strings. If anything its a conflict of interests, FW will win any court case, question is will the fight still go ahead in the mean time?

Do you think the San Marino or Liechtenstein FA has the same voting powers on FIFA as the English, Brazilian or German FA? Of course not.

There is no pulling of strings. One small organisation has tried to undermine another bigger organisation.

If Luxembourg's case was so goodm why is the only organisation in Europe that has so far expressed the slightest support (in fact all it did was slag of the German federation) was Malta?

There were the same number of shows in Britain in the last 9 days as there were in Luxembourg in the last 5 years. That is a fair reflection of their standing. To talk about "shouldn't have accepted them as a member" is nonsence. When they joined (probably decades ago) they will have joined as an organisation governing boxing in Luxembourg, not as a franchise trying to spread into other countries.

All this crap about Charlie Giles is just Warren playing with smoke and mirrors and divert the issue, just as he was in Munich when he blamed Giles not being in the dressing room for the hand wrapping for Chisora's appalling behaviour.

Warren has no chance in court. He knows this, all the talk of court action is just to scare people. Where is he going to find the money to take the EBU to the European court?

kingfinn wrote:

gobbles wrote:

Coco wrote:Maybe they consider the Austrian federation more ligitimate than a federation without any fighters and run off the back of a mobile phone in South London

Well put

Thats not the point, they shouldnt be allowed to play favourites, if they didnt rate the Lux board they shouldnt have accepted them as members in the 1st place. Now its a case of the BBBofC have strong links with the EBU ie having a BBBofC member as the vice president of the EBU so they are pulling strings. If anything its a conflict of interests, FW will win any court case, question is will the fight still go ahead in the mean time?

The main difference is that no one in Germany objected to Austria, AFAIK. And I love how everyone suddenly knows the law and can say what's going to happen.

Interesting developments. I've bought a ticket and so obviously want this to go ahead. I'd be surprised if the show did not go ahead, as others have said, FW seems to have put all of his eggs in one basket with this one and even if the fight is unlicensed I think he'll be forced to go on with it.

Clearly if the show did not go ahead the 28000 ticketholders would have to be refunded and there would inevitably be various other 'penalty' costs which would leave FW seriously out of pocket. Furthermore, the future of his BN channel seems to be heavily affected by the fight. Put bluntly, if this were cancelled the future of FW in the sport would be jeoparidised.

Despite all of the above however, the consequences of FW going ahead with the show may also be disasterous for him. If this goes ahead as an unlicensed show then the Board would have the power to ban any of those involved from participating in British boxing again under their jurisdiction which would make life extremely difficult for those concerned given that other boxing boards would also be obliged to ban them. This must make fighting on the undercard a very unattractive proposition and would almost certainly end the involvement of Povetkin and Rahman.

I also think it will go ahead, mainly for the reasons you outline, Steve. The 30,000 people should just form a big circle and have Mickey Vann intervene when Haye or Chisora 'gives best'.

gobbles wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

gobbles wrote:
Well put

Thats not the point, they shouldnt be allowed to play favourites, if they didnt rate the Lux board they shouldnt have accepted them as members in the 1st place. Now its a case of the BBBofC have strong links with the EBU ie having a BBBofC member as the vice president of the EBU so they are pulling strings. If anything its a conflict of interests, FW will win any court case, question is will the fight still go ahead in the mean time?

Do you think the San Marino or Liechtenstein FA has the same voting powers on FIFA as the English, Brazilian or German FA? Of course not.

There is no pulling of strings. One small organisation has tried to undermine another bigger organisation.

If Luxembourg's case was so goodm why is the only organisation in Europe that has so far expressed the slightest support (in fact all it did was slag of the German federation) was Malta?

There were the same number of shows in Britain in the last 9 days as there were in Luxembourg in the last 5 years. That is a fair reflection of their standing. To talk about "shouldn't have accepted them as a member" is nonsence. When they joined (probably decades ago) they will have joined as an organisation governing boxing in Luxembourg, not as a franchise trying to spread into other countries.

All this crap about Charlie Giles is just Warren playing with smoke and mirrors and divert the issue, just as he was in Munich when he blamed Giles not being in the dressing room for the hand wrapping for Chisora's appalling behaviour.

Warren has no chance in court. He knows this, all the talk of court action is just to scare people. Where is he going to find the money to take the EBU to the European court?

People keep comapring apples and oranges. FIFA is a completely different setup. The rules are another EBU board member is allowed to cover a fight in another EU country, just because the big boys dont like it, that doesnt make it legal to kick the lux board out of EBU. By your logic if a lux fighter had his license withdrawn and got licensed to fight in Luxembourg by the BBBofC it would be a different matter because the BBBofC has more power the and LBF. There have been numerous examples of other european boards backing fights in other european countries where the host nation has been against it happening.

dondada wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

gobbles wrote:
Well put

Thats not the point, they shouldnt be allowed to play favourites, if they didnt rate the Lux board they shouldnt have accepted them as members in the 1st place. Now its a case of the BBBofC have strong links with the EBU ie having a BBBofC member as the vice president of the EBU so they are pulling strings. If anything its a conflict of interests, FW will win any court case, question is will the fight still go ahead in the mean time?

The main difference is that no one in Germany objected to Austria, AFAIK. And I love how everyone suddenly knows the law and can say what's going to happen.

The whole point of the forum is to give your opinion, i love how you've been giving your opinion on here then wrote the above.

kingfinn wrote:

gobbles wrote:

kingfinn wrote:
Thats not the point, they shouldnt be allowed to play favourites, if they didnt rate the Lux board they shouldnt have accepted them as members in the 1st place. Now its a case of the BBBofC have strong links with the EBU ie having a BBBofC member as the vice president of the EBU so they are pulling strings. If anything its a conflict of interests, FW will win any court case, question is will the fight still go ahead in the mean time?

Do you think the San Marino or Liechtenstein FA has the same voting powers on FIFA as the English, Brazilian or German FA? Of course not.

There is no pulling of strings. One small organisation has tried to undermine another bigger organisation.

If Luxembourg's case was so goodm why is the only organisation in Europe that has so far expressed the slightest support (in fact all it did was slag of the German federation) was Malta?

There were the same number of shows in Britain in the last 9 days as there were in Luxembourg in the last 5 years. That is a fair reflection of their standing. To talk about "shouldn't have accepted them as a member" is nonsence. When they joined (probably decades ago) they will have joined as an organisation governing boxing in Luxembourg, not as a franchise trying to spread into other countries.

All this crap about Charlie Giles is just Warren playing with smoke and mirrors and divert the issue, just as he was in Munich when he blamed Giles not being in the dressing room for the hand wrapping for Chisora's appalling behaviour.

Warren has no chance in court. He knows this, all the talk of court action is just to scare people. Where is he going to find the money to take the EBU to the European court?

People keep comapring apples and oranges. FIFA is a completely different setup. The rules are another EBU board member is allowed to cover a fight in another EU country, just because the big boys dont like it, that doesnt make it legal to kick the lux board out of EBU. By your logic if a lux fighter had his license withdrawn and got licensed to fight in Luxembourg by the BBBofC it would be a different matter because the BBBofC has more power the and LBF. There have been numerous examples of other european boards backing fights in other european countries where the host nation has been against it happening.

Fifa is not a completely different set-up. The EBU is an association of member organisations in the same way that Fifa is.
You may remember that when England played Andorra, it took place in Barcelona. When England played San Marino, it took place in Bologna, both outside those country's borders. These were done with the co-operation of the host countries, not against them.
Your example of a Luxembourg boxer misses the point completely. The British Board would not sanction a fight in Luxembourg, so a boxer would need to be sanctioned by the local authority. This isn't some David and Goliath situation. The Luxembourg board are being used by a group of people from London as a way to undermine the British Board.

gobbles wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

gobbles wrote: Do you think the San Marino or Liechtenstein FA has the same voting powers on FIFA as the English, Brazilian or German FA? Of course not.

There is no pulling of strings. One small organisation has tried to undermine another bigger organisation.

If Luxembourg's case was so goodm why is the only organisation in Europe that has so far expressed the slightest support (in fact all it did was slag of the German federation) was Malta?

There were the same number of shows in Britain in the last 9 days as there were in Luxembourg in the last 5 years. That is a fair reflection of their standing. To talk about "shouldn't have accepted them as a member" is nonsence. When they joined (probably decades ago) they will have joined as an organisation governing boxing in Luxembourg, not as a franchise trying to spread into other countries.

All this crap about Charlie Giles is just Warren playing with smoke and mirrors and divert the issue, just as he was in Munich when he blamed Giles not being in the dressing room for the hand wrapping for Chisora's appalling behaviour.

Warren has no chance in court. He knows this, all the talk of court action is just to scare people. Where is he going to find the money to take the EBU to the European court?

People keep comapring apples and oranges. FIFA is a completely different setup. The rules are another EBU board member is allowed to cover a fight in another EU country, just because the big boys dont like it, that doesnt make it legal to kick the lux board out of EBU. By your logic if a lux fighter had his license withdrawn and got licensed to fight in Luxembourg by the BBBofC it would be a different matter because the BBBofC has more power the and LBF. There have been numerous examples of other european boards backing fights in other european countries where the host nation has been against it happening.

Fifa is not a completely different set-up. The EBU is an association of member organisations in the same way that Fifa is.
You may remember that when England played Andorra, it took place in Barcelona. When England played San Marino, it took place in Bologna, both outside those country's borders. These were done with the co-operation of the host countries, not against them.
Your example of a Luxembourg boxer misses the point completely. The British Board would not sanction a fight in Luxembourg, so a boxer would need to be sanctioned by the local authority. This isn't some David and Goliath situation. The Luxembourg board are being used by a group of people from London as a way to undermine the British Board.

Agree

gobbles wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

gobbles wrote: Do you think the San Marino or Liechtenstein FA has the same voting powers on FIFA as the English, Brazilian or German FA? Of course not.

There is no pulling of strings. One small organisation has tried to undermine another bigger organisation.

If Luxembourg's case was so goodm why is the only organisation in Europe that has so far expressed the slightest support (in fact all it did was slag of the German federation) was Malta?

There were the same number of shows in Britain in the last 9 days as there were in Luxembourg in the last 5 years. That is a fair reflection of their standing. To talk about "shouldn't have accepted them as a member" is nonsence. When they joined (probably decades ago) they will have joined as an organisation governing boxing in Luxembourg, not as a franchise trying to spread into other countries.

All this crap about Charlie Giles is just Warren playing with smoke and mirrors and divert the issue, just as he was in Munich when he blamed Giles not being in the dressing room for the hand wrapping for Chisora's appalling behaviour.

Warren has no chance in court. He knows this, all the talk of court action is just to scare people. Where is he going to find the money to take the EBU to the European court?

People keep comapring apples and oranges. FIFA is a completely different setup. The rules are another EBU board member is allowed to cover a fight in another EU country, just because the big boys dont like it, that doesnt make it legal to kick the lux board out of EBU. By your logic if a lux fighter had his license withdrawn and got licensed to fight in Luxembourg by the BBBofC it would be a different matter because the BBBofC has more power the and LBF. There have been numerous examples of other european boards backing fights in other european countries where the host nation has been against it happening.

Fifa is not a completely different set-up. The EBU is an association of member organisations in the same way that Fifa is.
You may remember that when England played Andorra, it took place in Barcelona. When England played San Marino, it took place in Bologna, both outside those country's borders. These were done with the co-operation of the host countries, not against them.
Your example of a Luxembourg boxer misses the point completely. The British Board would not sanction a fight in Luxembourg, so a boxer would need to be sanctioned by the local authority. This isn't some David and Goliath situation. The Luxembourg board are being used by a group of people from London as a way to undermine the British Board.

The EBU is not FIFA the setup is not the same, you are just wrong. Regardless of the intentions of the LBF the rules were set, they followed them, the BBBofC dont like it and now the fight LBF could be kicked out of the EBU. The EBU have key members who are also members of the BBBofC thats a conflict of interests.

If the EBU and BBBofC dont like the way the rules have been used to undermine them they should let the fight go ahead and then sit down and amend the rules in a fair fashion. Where is the integrity of a governing body changing their own rules just to suite them and put a stop to something they dont like which has already been planned.

kingfinn wrote:

gobbles wrote:

kingfinn wrote: People keep comapring apples and oranges. FIFA is a completely different setup. The rules are another EBU board member is allowed to cover a fight in another EU country, just because the big boys dont like it, that doesnt make it legal to kick the lux board out of EBU. By your logic if a lux fighter had his license withdrawn and got licensed to fight in Luxembourg by the BBBofC it would be a different matter because the BBBofC has more power the and LBF. There have been numerous examples of other european boards backing fights in other european countries where the host nation has been against it happening.

Fifa is not a completely different set-up. The EBU is an association of member organisations in the same way that Fifa is.
You may remember that when England played Andorra, it took place in Barcelona. When England played San Marino, it took place in Bologna, both outside those country's borders. These were done with the co-operation of the host countries, not against them.
Your example of a Luxembourg boxer misses the point completely. The British Board would not sanction a fight in Luxembourg, so a boxer would need to be sanctioned by the local authority. This isn't some David and Goliath situation. The Luxembourg board are being used by a group of people from London as a way to undermine the British Board.

The EBU is not FIFA the setup is not the same, you are just wrong. Regardless of the intentions of the LBF the rules were set, they followed them, the BBBofC dont like it and now the fight LBF could be kicked out of the EBU. The EBU have key members who are also members of the BBBofC thats a conflict of interests.

If the EBU and BBBofC dont like the way the rules have been used to undermine them they should let the fight go ahead and then sit down and amend the rules in a fair fashion.

Which rules were set? Which rules are they using? The LBF are merely a private company claiming they can do somethings under European fair trade rules.

For the removal of all doubt. On the EBU's website, there is published the "EBU Agreement", which it says is the "Agreement Between EBU Affiliated Federations". The very first rule is this:

No EBU-Affiliated Federation will license a boxer nor an official who has been licensed before by another EBU-Affiliated Federation without the written authorization of that Federation.

I would assume that settles the matter for those claiming the FLB is doing things within the rules.

gobbles wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

gobbles wrote: Fifa is not a completely different set-up. The EBU is an association of member organisations in the same way that Fifa is.
You may remember that when England played Andorra, it took place in Barcelona. When England played San Marino, it took place in Bologna, both outside those country's borders. These were done with the co-operation of the host countries, not against them.
Your example of a Luxembourg boxer misses the point completely. The British Board would not sanction a fight in Luxembourg, so a boxer would need to be sanctioned by the local authority. This isn't some David and Goliath situation. The Luxembourg board are being used by a group of people from London as a way to undermine the British Board.

The EBU is not FIFA the setup is not the same, you are just wrong. Regardless of the intentions of the LBF the rules were set, they followed them, the BBBofC dont like it and now the fight LBF could be kicked out of the EBU. The EBU have key members who are also members of the BBBofC thats a conflict of interests.

If the EBU and BBBofC dont like the way the rules have been used to undermine them they should let the fight go ahead and then sit down and amend the rules in a fair fashion.

Which rules were set? Which rules are they using? The LBF are merely a private company claiming they can do somethings under European fair trade rules.

If it is proven that the LBF are breaking the rules then i will have no issue with the decision.

the whole thing is a mess.....that could have been avoided had all the parties involved behaved in a more professional manner.

fwank- dont like him, dont care if he goes bust,boxing would be in better health without this type of character.
haye- hes got plenty of cash , can find other fights, should walk away from the whole situation and get on with his life.
chisora- scumbag who shouldnt be profitting from his disgraceful behaviour
bbbc- should clear out the dead wood in the org' , get in some members who have integrity, professionalism, and above all, the interests of boxing at heart.

i know its too naive to expect things to work out for the good of the sport...... just wish things were different.

gobbles wrote:For the removal of all doubt. On the EBU's website, there is published the "EBU Agreement", which it says is the "Agreement Between EBU Affiliated Federations". The very first rule is this:

No EBU-Affiliated Federation will license a boxer nor an official who has been licensed before by another EBU-Affiliated Federation without the written authorization of that Federation.

I would assume that settles the matter for those claiming the FLB is doing things within the rules.

If they are the rules set by the EBU before the the fight was planned then the LBF are breaking the rules as long as there is no loophole in ther rest of their rules. I still think the fight should go ahead, the BBBofC should take the reigns and sort out the issue with suspensions and bans afterwards that way they come out the good guys. People who have paid for tickets and accomodation dont lose out and BBBofC look in control.

kingfinn wrote:

dondada wrote:

kingfinn wrote:
Thats not the point, they shouldnt be allowed to play favourites, if they didnt rate the Lux board they shouldnt have accepted them as members in the 1st place. Now its a case of the BBBofC have strong links with the EBU ie having a BBBofC member as the vice president of the EBU so they are pulling strings. If anything its a conflict of interests, FW will win any court case, question is will the fight still go ahead in the mean time?

The main difference is that no one in Germany objected to Austria, AFAIK. And I love how everyone suddenly knows the law and can say what's going to happen.

The whole point of the forum is to give your opinion, i love how you've been giving your opinion on here then wrote the above.

Come again? You're far too sharp for me. You're giving your opinion on the law. I don't know much about it. Please explain about why he'll win and this conflict of interest thing.

dondada wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

dondada wrote: The main difference is that no one in Germany objected to Austria, AFAIK. And I love how everyone suddenly knows the law and can say what's going to happen.

The whole point of the forum is to give your opinion, i love how you've been giving your opinion on here then wrote the above.

Come again? You're far too sharp for me. You're giving your opinion on the law. I don't know much about it. Please explain about why he'll win and this conflict of interest thing.

why dont you just try and learn a little about what you comment on then i wont have to keep explaining basics of law, business and marketing to you.

dondada wrote:

kingfinn wrote:

dondada wrote: The main difference is that no one in Germany objected to Austria, AFAIK. And I love how everyone suddenly knows the law and can say what's going to happen.

The whole point of the forum is to give your opinion, i love how you've been giving your opinion on here then wrote the above.

Come again? You're far too sharp for me. You're giving your opinion on the law. I don't know much about it. Please explain about why he'll win and this conflict of interest thing.

It's just Warren throwing mud and trying to paint Giles as the bad guy. It is not a conflict of interest for him to be chairman of the BBBofC and EBU, much in the same way as it is not a conflict of interest for people in the FA to have positions on UEFA or FIFA.
If he was being paid to work for a promoter, that would be a conflict of interest, but he's not.

kingfinn wrote:
why dont you just try and learn a little about what you comment on then i wont have to keep explaining basics of law, business and marketing to you.

Think you're mixing me up with my old pal, Deserter.

Go on, indulge me though. I just don't get your statement here: "If anything its a conflict of interests, FW will win any court case".

Help an ignorant man out. What's the conflict of interest upon which FW will win any court case? I'm really keen to learn from you.

Oh, if you can also make me aware of any factually inaccurate comments I've made, I'll certainly look at them again.