BoxRec

wadey wrote:Not a huge fight?? I think 99% of uk boxing fans would much prefer to see Froch v Cleverly as opposed to Mack....

Still doesn't make it a huge fight even if those stats were ue, which this thread and site proves they aren't by the way.

Froch has said he has promised Pascal he would step up and fight him again at some point because they have already had a great tear up and are friendly. Pascal wants it again and Froch has said time and again he would move up to face him.

I think all the while he is fighting the top guys at super mid, he stays there and so he should.

As for what would happen if he and Clev fought? I think Carl would hurt him. Wait and see. I have a feeling in two years time people will laugh their nuts off thinking back to the time when a small minority were screaming for Froch to fight Clev.

Nathan fighting Carl after what he has faced so far would be like jumping over a 6ft fence without realising there is a 50ft drop the other side.

Nathan has beat nobody of note. He as faced nobody of note ( when talking about world level of course ) and he is a weight above...it's pretty simple really. If they do fight it's Haye v Macca all over again.

wadey wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:

Casio wrote:By my reckoning the offer to Hearn/Froch was made after he destroyed Bute hence why it was such a large offer, therefore why couldn't this fight have taken place instead of Mack and therefore prior to the Bute rematch?

Froch has previously stated he would go up to LHW to face Pascal. It seems like the 'I aint going up a weight' is used when it suits.

I undertand the offer being turned down if Froch wants to stay at SMW but it has been stated it was an offer with no add ons apparently so that blows that argument out of the water. And also more importantly it wasn't for Froch SMW title obviously so win or lose he could still have fought back at SMW against Bute defending his belt.

Everyone seems to think it would be a walk in the park for Froch, would you take it for 1 mill (if it really was that simple and straight forward)?

Not saying it's a walk-in-the-park... Clev needs to fight credable opponant before calling out someone like Froch

I think your clutching a little bit pal. One minute you are saying its because of the weight issue, and then because Clev hasn't fought a credible opponent..

Both are credible reasons...

Casio wrote:

yiddo14 wrote:
Nathan has beat nobody of note. He as faced nobody of note ( when talking about world level of course ) and he is a weight above...it's pretty simple really. If they do fight it's Haye v Macca all over again.

Just because he hasnt has the stage and big name opponent to show he's capable of beating a 'name'...it doesnt mean he's not capable of doing it.

Never said he is... but he doesn't deserve the until he steps it up
I'm not saying he poor, I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance. I like Cleverely - I don't think he deserves it... yet

wadey r u friends with cleverley or something?

The public are hardly clamouring for this fight. Its hardly the benn vs eubank mouth waterer u r trying to paint it. I'm sure if u did a poll out of a kessler/abraham/bute rematch, a pavlik fight or a cleverley fight, nathan would be in the bottom two.

and i bet if froch called his bluff warren would crap himself anyway. nathans best win doesnt compare to beating brian magee ffs.

wadey wrote:12 stone isnt Froch's normal weight and i'll think you'll find, he doesn't get down to that weight until probably a week before the fight.

May be i don't have any idea, like wise what makes you think you do?

If there's one top class boxer who is almost always 'on weight', it's Carl Froch. Of course, he only gets right down to 12st exactly in fight week but he could get down to 12st in ANY week if he had to. He's never far away.

Fact... he comes in to camp about 12.7
That's the weight a LOT of light-middles walk around at... some welters!
Clev is probably naturally about a stone and half bigger than Froch

Casio wrote:By my reckoning the offer to Hearn/Froch was made after he destroyed Bute hence why it was such a large offer, therefore why couldn't this fight have taken place instead of Mack and therefore prior to the Bute rematch?

Froch has previously stated he would go up to LHW to face Pascal. It seems like the 'I aint going up a weight' is used when it suits.

I undertand the offer being turned down if Froch wants to stay at SMW but it has been stated it was an offer with no add ons apparently so that blows that argument out of the water. And also more importantly it wasn't for Froch SMW title obviously so win or lose he could still have fought back at SMW against Bute defending his belt.

Everyone seems to think it would be a walk in the park for Froch, would you take it for 1 mill (if it really was that simple and straight forward)?

Maybe he wants f**k all to do with anything or anyone associated with the proposed match? Maybe he has a plan and wants to see that through first? Clev will still be there after this, won't he? If they both keep winning, won't it be worth more money in a while?

Hearn has said he'll pay Froch more than FW has allegedly offered anyway, so that's fine.

Froch doesn't need to explain why he doesn't want to fight Cleverly, FFS.

Casio wrote:

yiddo14 wrote:
Nathan has beat nobody of note. He as faced nobody of note ( when talking about world level of course ) and he is a weight above...it's pretty simple really. If they do fight it's Haye v Macca all over again.

Just because he hasnt has the stage and big name opponent to show he's capable of beating a 'name'...it doesnt mean he's not capable of doing it.

I'm judging it on what I have seen from him so far. I think Carl would batter him.

If there is one fighter who cannot be critisiced for his choice of opponents it is Carl Froch - I cannot believe that FW is trying to use his name in this negative spin.

One word - options. Even if this happened, there is no way FW offered anybody £1m (or any amount for that matter) without the contract being loaded with options.

Also, what is this about looking to fight boxers at a lower weight - why should Froch (or any boxer) box anybody who is a higher weight ? - this is the usual sharp practice from this promoter.

Casio wrote:

dondada wrote:

Casio wrote:By my reckoning the offer to Hearn/Froch was made after he destroyed Bute hence why it was such a large offer, therefore why couldn't this fight have taken place instead of Mack and therefore prior to the Bute rematch?

Froch has previously stated he would go up to LHW to face Pascal. It seems like the 'I aint going up a weight' is used when it suits.

I undertand the offer being turned down if Froch wants to stay at SMW but it has been stated it was an offer with no add ons apparently so that blows that argument out of the water. And also more importantly it wasn't for Froch SMW title obviously so win or lose he could still have fought back at SMW against Bute defending his belt.

Everyone seems to think it would be a walk in the park for Froch, would you take it for 1 mill (if it really was that simple and straight forward)?

Maybe he wants f**k all to do with anything or anyone associated with the proposed match? Maybe he has a plan and wants to see that through first? Clev will still be there after this, won't he? If they both keep winning, won't it be worth more money in a while?

Hearn has said he'll pay Froch more than FW has allegedly offered anyway, so that's fine.

Froch doesn't need to explain why he doesn't want to fight Cleverly, FFS.

Woah!! Easy tiger....touched a nerve or something? I get your point!



Was just asking some questions thats all and giving my thoughts....i get my head bitten off enough when speaking with her indoors without it happening on here

OK, deep breath.

I just can't believe anyone is giving Froch stick, questioning him, whatever, for not fighting Nathan fecking Cleverly.

danconnollyeire wrote:Fact... he comes in to camp about 12.7
That's the weight a LOT of light-middles walk around at... some welters!
Clev is probably naturally about a stone and half bigger than Froch

I dunno, could you see Froch ever making light-middle? He's far bigger than any light-middle I can think of. He may just be one of those fighters who is naturally very lean and doesn't have to boil down very far.

As others have tried to point out, there are various reasons this fight is unlikely to happen, which include (in no particular order): different weight divisons, one fighter tied to Sky, the other to allegedly, Froch contracted to fight Bute in March at Super Middle, promoters who seemingly hate each other, the prospect of "options".

If the offer was turned down, why not use a good chunk of the purse to tempt the likes of Cloud/Shumenov/Campillo over?

dookus wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:Fact... he comes in to camp about 12.7
That's the weight a LOT of light-middles walk around at... some welters!
Clev is probably naturally about a stone and half bigger than Froch

I dunno, could you see Froch ever making light-middle? He's far bigger than any light-middle I can think of. He may just be one of those fighters who is naturally very lean and doesn't have to boil down very far.

The point is that Froch is always at his fighting weight, he isn't a drainer and he doesn't blow up.

stevieb_8006 wrote:wadey r u friends with cleverley or something?

The public are hardly clamouring for this fight. Its hardly the benn vs eubank mouth waterer u r trying to paint it. I'm sure if u did a poll out of a kessler/abraham/bute rematch, a pavlik fight or a cleverley fight, nathan would be in the bottom two.

and i bet if froch called his bluff warren would crap himself anyway. nathans best win doesnt compare to beating brian magee ffs.

The point i've been trying to make is he's camp have decided to pit Froch against this Yusuf Mack, who ffs isn't even a Super Middleweight rather than considering a fight against Cleverly which would be more appealing. Let's be honest Yusuf Mack will only turn up and collect his money, nothing else.

Couldn't agree more with dondada above, can't believe Froch, who got where he is the hard way, is getting stick for not dancing to the tune of FW & Cleverley. Feck me.... And if the fight does ever happen Froch will muller him.

iamasadlittleboy wrote:

dookus wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:Fact... he comes in to camp about 12.7
That's the weight a LOT of light-middles walk around at... some welters!
Clev is probably naturally about a stone and half bigger than Froch

I dunno, could you see Froch ever making light-middle? He's far bigger than any light-middle I can think of. He may just be one of those fighters who is naturally very lean and doesn't have to boil down very far.

The point is that Froch is always at his fighting weight, he isn't a drainer and he doesn't blow up.

And the point I was making is that this doesn't make Cleverly 'naturally about a stone and half bigger than Froch', just because he has to drain more to his fighting weight.

Carl Froch has said that his walk around weight is 177-180lbs (12 stone 9lb- 12stone 12lbs) which means that he has always got down to 12 stone pretty easy, I remember seeing him in a Fight Camp 360 for the Dirrell fight enjoying a banana and a quick snack before weighing because he normally hits the scales at around 11 stone 12 1/2 to 11 stone 13lbs 1/4.

Typical Wazza chicanery. Matchroom have just sealed the tasty Sky deal. Are they going to let their prize asset fight on a rival's network?

Frannk could've offered 10m. He hasn't got that either.

dondada wrote:I just can't believe anyone is giving Froch stick, questioning him, whatever, for not fighting Nathan fecking Cleverly.

Indeed. More spin and BS, to try jusify Cleverly's piss poor opponent. I am amazed people are taken in by W@rren's utter BS. Seriously.

bengulnaci1 wrote:

dondada wrote:I just can't believe anyone is giving Froch stick, questioning him, whatever, for not fighting Nathan fecking Cleverly.

Indeed. More spin and BS, to try jusify Cleverly's piss poor opponent. I am amazed people are taken in by W@rren's utter BS. Seriously.

I am not taking in by it either, but I would not call Uzelkov a world title challenger who lose to Shumilov, and holds a win over a Gabriel Campillo a former WBA title holder Light-Heavy piss poor either though.

IRLangmaid25 wrote:

bengulnaci1 wrote:

dondada wrote:I just can't believe anyone is giving Froch stick, questioning him, whatever, for not fighting Nathan fecking Cleverly.

Indeed. More spin and BS, to try jusify Cleverly's piss poor opponent. I am amazed people are taken in by W@rren's utter BS. Seriously.

I am not taking in by it either, but I would not call Uzelkov a world title challenger who lose o Shumilov, and holds a win over a Gabriel Campillo a former WBA title holder Light-Heavy piss poor either though.

By world class standards Uzelkov's recent resume is close to piss poor, which may reflect to some extent his ability during that period. Sure, he stopped Campillo half a decade ago, but he's defeated only mediocre opponents since, lost 11 of 12 rounds against Shumenov, and dropped a clear decision to an unspectacular EBU champion.

Just playing devils advocate, Because we all agree Froch deserves to fight who he likes and there is no way on earth he would turn down Nathan for any other reasons than he's signed to matchroom and they wouldn't let him go anywhere near a FW promotion but Yusef Mack is 'near' to piss poor opponent by world class standards and a chance for Carl to win a title against Nathan would have been infinitely more interesting than a fight against a nobody aka Mack Attack. Plus a million quid to boot! Paid up front to Carl in used twenties.

Mack isn't near piss poor by general world class standards; he always loses at that level, but he is competitive. He was ahead on one card when he was stopped byTavoris Cloud last year, which is more impressive than any of Uzelkov's accomplishments over the past several years.

But I agree that Cleverly-Froch would be more interesting than Froch-Mack.

crusader wrote:Mack isn't near piss poor by general world class standards; he always loses at that level, but he is competitive. He was ahead on one card when he was stopped byTavoris Cloud last year, which is more impressive than any of Uzelkov's accomplishments over the past several years.

But I agree that Cleverly-Froch would be more interesting than Froch-Mack.

Yes tbf he did have a go with Cloud initially and then crumbled but really he's a stopagge waiting to happen and what does he add to Carls record .
He's only the USBA champion and his last two he's won on points against Omar Sheikha 32-11-0 (Calzaghe stopped him 12 years ago!) and Sabou Bollogou 8-5-0. Obviously keep safe fights until the next step up/stoppage.

Final round wrote:

crusader wrote:Mack isn't near piss poor by general world class standards; he always loses at that level, but he is competitive. He was ahead on one card when he was stopped byTavoris Cloud last year, which is more impressive than any of Uzelkov's accomplishments over the past several years.

But I agree that Cleverly-Froch would be more interesting than Froch-Mack.

Yes tbf he did have a go with Cloud initially and then crumbled but really he's a stopagge waiting to happen and what does he add to Carls record .
He's only the USBA champion and his last two he's won on points against Omar Sheikha 32-11-0 (Calzaghe stopped him 12 years ago!) and Sabou Bollogou 8-5-0. Obviously keep safe fights until the next step up/stoppage.

I'm sympathetic with your point; the discrepancy in ability and recent accomplishments between Mack and Froch is larger than the discrepancy between Cleverly and Uzelkov, and the former match-up is more predictable and generates less interest than Froch-Cleverly would. However, relative to a common standard (what I called 'general world class'), Mack is currently better than Uzelkov, which is all I was getting out.