BoxRec

Did Nelson choose his nickname "The Entertainer" as a laugh or something?

banjo wrote:Did Nelson choose his nickname "The Entertainer" as a laugh or something?

Possibly opens the door for an ironic nicknames thread.

ie: Tyson 'the professor' Fury.

Here we go again - start a thread about McCrory and Froch - end up slagging Johnny off for his World Title credentials.
He won it, defended it 13 times and retired undefeated. Also they weren't all home fights he got on his bike.
Have a pop at Cleverly and keep it up to date.

When you think of the shocking and disgraceful way Gary Mason who really needed the job was sacked in the mid 90s and how he was a very interesting pundit its equally shocking McCrory has lasted so long.
I truly feel he shouldnt be on.
He has had his time.

I never liked his commentary with Ian Darke and i disliked Darke even more.
But the biggest thing Glen did was introduce the forced growling delivery to Sky Sports boxing. Nelson was doing it for ages and before him even Adam Smith used to put on a ridiculous growling voice when commentating with the same forced delivery.

Theres just so many pundits and i think Glen should be used very sparingly.

IT must have been banter cos it would be madness to question Glen as a boxer. He won the title at like what 23? was a respected sparring partner for a prime Tyson and u can see how once he retired early SKY wanted him commentating on Tyson and HW fights.
He was a brave guy took on Lewis giving up a huge size advantage. Froch shouldnt be mocking him it must have been banter as Froch is an old man too boxing wise

Mugabi a bit harsh possibly there. Mason swore on TV if I am not mistaken. When Glen swears then lets call it "shocking" that he is still on the box.

I don't think anyone should be given the role based on their financial situation. Don't get me wrong I liked Mason as a commentator and as a fighter, by why should him "really needing the job" influence Sky.

When Glen started on Sky he had just freshly won the world title, and was an active boxer. He looked the part (auditioned for Bond) and was articulate. Mason was okay but there were better and he didn't quite achieve as much as McCory in the ring.

At the time when Glen started the best pundits were contracted to ITV. When Watt moved to Sky, Glen's work did dry up somewhat.

He did swear on TV, that's why he was binned. Almost as funny as Eubank talking about Tyson's innocence which led to him never being near another microphone in the punditry box again.

Mason wasn't much good a pundit, he was slow and inarticulate. You could almost here the cogs whirring at times. By all accounts he was a decent bloke but let's not make out he was a great pundit. Slightly above Alan "sure there have been deaths and injuries in boxing, but none of them serious" Minter in the pantheon of punditry.

ejruane wrote:

banjo wrote:Did Nelson choose his nickname "The Entertainer" as a laugh or something?

Possibly opens the door for an ironic nicknames thread.

ie: Tyson 'the professor' Fury.

We had one a few years back.

'Sugar' Danny Williams and Lenny 'Ironfist' Daws were my 2 favourites.

stujones wrote:When Glen started on Sky he had just freshly won the world title, and was an active boxer. He looked the part (auditioned for Bond) and was articulate. Mason was okay but there were better and he didn't quite achieve as much as McCory in the ring.

Mason didn't achieve as much as McCrory? How do you figure?

McCrory just happened to be in the right place at the right time when SIX men were needed, in a very weak cruiserweight division, to contest THREE vacant world titles. McCrory beat two journeymen novices in the North East then got blown out by a half decent contender in Jeff Lampkin and for some reason this makes him an 'ex world champion'.

How is that better than Gary Mason?

Mason gave Lennox Lewis a hard, credible fight that looked more impressive over the years with Lewis beating up more famous heavyweights. Mason didn't get blown out by anyone, unlike McCrory who was destroyed five, six, seven times. Mason was also in the mix for a big fight with Tyson, McCrory was never in the mix for a big fight in cruiserweight or heavy. I think Gary was a much more accomplished, and obvious far superior, pro to Glenn.

Mason was also a witty, articulate and entertaining pundit. He was a character. McCrory seems to possess the knowledge of a pub drunk who's never boxed. I've never heard anything insightful or illuminating from him in 20 years of him undeservedly being on Sky.

Another thing about McCrory's punditry, for years McCrory spoke of Lewis's incredible punching power yet when sat next to Gary Mason for the Lewis/Bruno preview, Gary - who Lewis couldn't deck, wobble or make a dent in - dismisses Lewis's power and says he isn't a true puncher, and Glenn laughably agrees with him - 'No, Lennox isn't a big puncher at all he's just very strong'.

What the hell?

G0mez wrote:

Looking On wrote:Someoene i know reckons Froch is a bit of tit and doesnt like it if hes not recognised on a night out .

this person is one of frochs brothers friends .

Name him, because I'm in that group.

Carl avoids popular places for that very reason.

Which is why he has no problem going to the City Ground

danconnollyeire wrote:

jameswilson wrote:McCrory may well be one of Britains worst World champions, but he was a World champion none the less.

Johnny Nelson was worse... as a boxer

Both of them have independently told me they would smash the other. They both think it would be an easy scrap.

orbtastic wrote:Mason wasn't much good a pundit, he was slow and inarticulate. You could almost here the cogs whirring at times. By all accounts he was a decent bloke but let's not make out he was a great pundit.

Mason was an excellent pundit. Perhaps not as articulate as some but all the better for that - he just called it as he saw it and didn't say a load of cliched nicey-nicey bollocks as some do now.

mugabi wrote:When you think of the shocking and disgraceful way Gary Mason who really needed the job was sacked in the mid 90s and how he was a very interesting pundit its equally shocking McCrory has lasted so long.
I truly feel he shouldnt be on.
He has had his time.

I never liked his commentary with Ian Darke and i disliked Darke even more.
But the biggest thing Glen did was introduce the forced growling delivery to Sky Sports boxing. Nelson was doing it for ages and before him even Adam Smith used to put on a ridiculous growling voice when commentating with the same forced delivery.

Theres just so many pundits and i think Glen should be used very sparingly.

dondada wrote:
Which is why he has no problem going to the City Ground

Thread over

loaded_gloves wrote:

stujones wrote:When Glen started on Sky he had just freshly won the world title, and was an active boxer. He looked the part (auditioned for Bond) and was articulate. Mason was okay but there were better and he didn't quite achieve as much as McCory in the ring.

Mason didn't achieve as much as McCrory? How do you figure?

McCrory just happened to be in the right place at the right time when SIX men were needed, in a very weak cruiserweight division, to contest THREE vacant world titles. McCrory beat two journeymen novices in the North East then got blown out by a half decent contender in Jeff Lampkin and for some reason this makes him an 'ex world champion'.

How is that better than Gary Mason?

Mason gave Lennox Lewis a hard, credible fight that looked more impressive over the years with Lewis beating up more famous heavyweights. Mason didn't get blown out by anyone, unlike McCrory who was destroyed five, six, seven times. Mason was also in the mix for a big fight with Tyson, McCrory was never in the mix for a big fight in cruiserweight or heavy. I think Gary was a much more accomplished, and obvious far superior, pro to Glenn.

Mason was also a witty, articulate and entertaining pundit. He was a character. McCrory seems to possess the knowledge of a pub drunk who's never boxed. I've never heard anything insightful or illuminating from him in 20 years of him undeservedly being on Sky.

McCrory was the only pundit to go for Barerra over Hamed. He isn't always just a yes man.... also on was the only pundit when Reid got destroyed by Lacy to say that Calzaghe would beat up left hook.

Without trying to sound harsh but I think you are inflating Mason a tad there. He lost practically every round to a raw Lewis who a couple of years later was losing to Bruno before landing the big shot.

Yeah good win over Tyrrell Biggs (forgetting the rumours about that fight which I don't believe at all). But Tyrrell wasn't the most reliable of fighters and hardly proven at world class.

Saying that he was "in the mix" to fight Tyson is a bit like saying Audley Harrison has mixed it at world class. Joe Bugner was in the mix to fight Tyson before the Bruno fight (was world ranked and everything - and at least Joe had beaten an ex world champion to get the ranking). Mason never fought Tyson and if it did it would have been a horrible watch. Mason was a solid British champion, although the only decent domestic level fighter he faced (and I mean proper decent) he lost heavily too. He didn't face Bruno, Hide, Derek Williams etc. Mason didn't deserve his lofty world ranking - who did he beat to warrant that (remembering he was in the mix before he faced Biggs).

McCory - yeah, a pretty poor world title reign no doubt.... in a new division so always going to have a distinct disadvantage - he did a credible show when past his prime against Al Cole though. That display was as good as world title wins in gauging his level. To say the McCory was never in the mix to have a big fight at Cruiser or Heavy is a bit much.... he DID fight the long time #1 in the division in Al Cole.... Can't help the Cruiserweight division isn't popular - shall we be critical of Rendall Munroe for fighting Nishioka and not someone more glamorous.

Jeez..... Lewis a 'domestic' opponent? That was a world class fight between two world class fighters. Mason lifted Lewis off the floor with a hook to the body. How many people has Lennox Lewis not been able to dent with his punch? Mason is in with a gang you can count on one hand.

Mason's gritty fight with Lewis validates my claim he was world class - it compares very favourably with Razor Ruddock, Tony Tucker, Tommy Morrison, Andrew Golota, etc etc.

loaded_gloves wrote:Jeez..... Lewis a 'domestic' opponent? That was a world class fight between two world class fighters. Mason lifted Lewis off the floor with a hook to the body. How many people has Lennox Lewis not been able to dent with his punch? Mason is in with a gang you can count on one hand.

Mason's gritty fight with Lewis validates my claim he was world class - it compares very favourably with Razor Ruddock, Tony Tucker, Tommy Morrison, Andrew Golota, etc etc.

I meant domestic (sorry I didn't mean to say domestic level) as in from the UK..... I repeat my question, Biggs aside name me a fighter who Mason BEAT who is beyond the even the John McDermott level of British fighters - let alone fighters on the level of a Danny Williams/ Matt Skelton. Jess Harding?

Lewis was a completely different more rounded fighter in 1995/1997 than he was when is 1991, so not sure why you bring Morrison and Golota in the arguement. The Lewis of 1997 would have handled the Lewis of 1991 with ease also. Tony Tucker really gave Lewis one or two problems and went the distance, so not sure how the Mason fight compares favourable to that.

Yeah, better than the faded Razor Rudduck, but then not as good as Levi Bullips of all people who had Lewis in quite serious trouble. If we go on a young naive Lennox as the yard stick for being world class than Oliver McCall should be considered one of the greatest fighters of all time and Frank Bruno is up there also for being ahead at the time of the stoppage.

Mason was brave against a young Lewis, but got outclassed at the end of it. Did Williams' brave effort against Klitchsko validate his claims to being world class?

Don't like speaking bad of those who are no longer with us, especially an all round good egg and good fighter like Mason - but IMO never proved himself world class and whilst a good British champion fought some pretty shocking opponents in that reign when there were some good ones out there. For me, he was outclassed by a world class fighter it wasn't close.

loaded_gloves wrote:It was a couple of remarks. I didn't listen all the way through but at one point Froch pointed out McCrory didn't have a Lonsdale belt. Later McCrory stated he won a world title on home soil and Froch said "you won a world title?". Stuff of that nature.

I think McCrory is dreadful, but there's something of the bully in Froch - why is a young strong man in his prime mocking an ex-fighter pushing 50?

A fair assesment

stujones wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:Jeez..... Lewis a 'domestic' opponent? That was a world class fight between two world class fighters. Mason lifted Lewis off the floor with a hook to the body. How many people has Lennox Lewis not been able to dent with his punch? Mason is in with a gang you can count on one hand.

Mason's gritty fight with Lewis validates my claim he was world class - it compares very favourably with Razor Ruddock, Tony Tucker, Tommy Morrison, Andrew Golota, etc etc.

I meant domestic (sorry I didn't mean to say domestic level) as in from the UK..... I repeat my question, Biggs aside name me a fighter who Mason BEAT who is beyond the even the John McDermott level of British fighters - let alone fighters on the level of a Danny Williams/ Matt Skelton. Jess Harding?

Lewis was a completely different more rounded fighter in 1995/1997 than he was when is 1991, so not sure why you bring Morrison and Golota in the arguement. The Lewis of 1997 would have handled the Lewis of 1991 with ease also. Tony Tucker really gave Lewis one or two problems and went the distance, so not sure how the Mason fight compares favourable to that.

Yeah, better than the faded Razor Rudduck, but then not as good as Levi Bullips of all people who had Lewis in quite serious trouble. If we go on a young naive Lennox as the yard stick for being world class than Oliver McCall should be considered one of the greatest fighters of all time and Frank Bruno is up there also for being ahead at the time of the stoppage.

Mason was brave against a young Lewis, but got outclassed at the end of it. Did Williams' brave effort against Klitchsko validate his claims to being world class?

Don't like speaking bad of those who are no longer with us, especially an all round good egg and good fighter like Mason - but IMO never proved himself world class and whilst a good British champion fought some pretty shocking opponents in that reign when there were some good ones out there. For me, he was outclassed by a world class fighter it wasn't close.

Babble and spam. Point out when Billups had Lewis in "serious trouble". Just give one example. Just one.

Comparing Gary Mason against Lennox Lewis to Danny Williams being comatized from round 1 onwards and dropped 5 times versus Vitali borders on trolling.

Lennox Lewis admitted Mason was one of his hardest fights when Mason was still very much in the land of the living. And Lewis was always a man who hated to give credit to any opponent.

Why don't you just admit you have no riposte rather than trolling?

stujones wrote:I meant domestic (sorry I didn't mean to say domestic level) as in from the UK..... I repeat my question, Biggs aside name me a fighter who Mason BEAT who is beyond the even the John McDermott level of British fighters - let alone fighters on the level of a Danny Williams/ Matt Skelton. Jess Harding?

Haway, Stu. Alonso Raitliff, James Tillis, Hughroy Currie and Everett Martin were all on the level of John McDermott and - ye Gods - Matt Skelton. Some were beyond.

I never rated Glen seems he was caught inbetween weights though. He did win a world title though so you have to give credit for that. Saying that he won the vacant IBF title by beating a unknown Kenyan and defended against a unknow South African, whos career was on the slide losing 5 of his last 7 fights. Glen lost the title when he met Lampkin the first decent american he fought and he lost 19 fights in his career too. Glen didnt have a punch and didnt have a chin. Lennox Lewis sorted him out in 2 rounds. Out of 30 fights Glen KO'ed 6 guys I think and could stand toe to toe with genuine heavyweights. Domestic level heavys such as John Westgarth and Dave Garside stopped him and they werent that good of boxers either.

Credit where credits due Glen won a world title, don't know how he got to ranked 1 by IBF but there you go.

if interested here is the lewis v mccrory fight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jo6TLeA3eQ

loaded_gloves wrote:

stujones wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:Jeez..... Lewis a 'domestic' opponent? That was a world class fight between two world class fighters. Mason lifted Lewis off the floor with a hook to the body. How many people has Lennox Lewis not been able to dent with his punch? Mason is in with a gang you can count on one hand.

Mason's gritty fight with Lewis validates my claim he was world class - it compares very favourably with Razor Ruddock, Tony Tucker, Tommy Morrison, Andrew Golota, etc etc.

I meant domestic (sorry I didn't mean to say domestic level) as in from the UK..... I repeat my question, Biggs aside name me a fighter who Mason BEAT who is beyond the even the John McDermott level of British fighters - let alone fighters on the level of a Danny Williams/ Matt Skelton. Jess Harding?

Lewis was a completely different more rounded fighter in 1995/1997 than he was when is 1991, so not sure why you bring Morrison and Golota in the arguement. The Lewis of 1997 would have handled the Lewis of 1991 with ease also. Tony Tucker really gave Lewis one or two problems and went the distance, so not sure how the Mason fight compares favourable to that.

Yeah, better than the faded Razor Rudduck, but then not as good as Levi Bullips of all people who had Lewis in quite serious trouble. If we go on a young naive Lennox as the yard stick for being world class than Oliver McCall should be considered one of the greatest fighters of all time and Frank Bruno is up there also for being ahead at the time of the stoppage.

Mason was brave against a young Lewis, but got outclassed at the end of it. Did Williams' brave effort against Klitchsko validate his claims to being world class?

Don't like speaking bad of those who are no longer with us, especially an all round good egg and good fighter like Mason - but IMO never proved himself world class and whilst a good British champion fought some pretty shocking opponents in that reign when there were some good ones out there. For me, he was outclassed by a world class fighter it wasn't close.

Babble and spam. Point out when Billups had Lewis in "serious trouble". Just give one example. Just one.

Comparing Gary Mason against Lennox Lewis to Danny Williams being comatized from round 1 onwards and dropped 5 times versus Vitali borders on trolling.

Lennox Lewis admitted Mason was one of his hardest fights when Mason was still very much in the land of the living. And Lewis was always a man who hated to give credit to any opponent.

Why don't you just admit you have no riposte rather than trolling?

Thats the strangest definition of trolling I've ever heard. Anyway Lewis was 5/6 years off his peak when he fought Mason and far from the finished article. Eamonn Magee gave Ricky Hatton trouble and a tough fight, but you cannot judge Eamonn Magee as world class from that - even though he gave Ricky a much harder fight than Castillo, Malignaggi etc.

Not suggesting that Lewis wasn't world class in 1991 he was..... but personally I don't think a fight in which the commentators were asking for the ref to stop the fight 2 rounds before the contest did eventually end in the 7th particularly hard or one that was close. Okay, Mason was unfortunate that it was the eye damage, but Lewis was winning the fight clear IMO well before the eye problems took place and the fight was getting to become sad to watch as Lewis really started to target the eye and Mason becoming increasingly blind to the punches. Infact, I think (and this is the point I was trying to make with the Klitchsko comparison) was that the fight actually shows that Lewis, even in 1991, was a level above Mason - and Lewis in 1991 was far from the all time great he later became. There wasn't two world class fighters in there as you mention... one solid British/European Level fighter being outclassed by a truly world class fighter - just my take on it, off course you disagree and you are entilted to it.

Ian - agree to disagree there, not at the stages of their careers when they faced Mason. Martin was at the starts of his journeyman mode, as was James Tillis. Raitliff lost to Laumbama who is getting rediculed on this very thread. Okay, maybe Currie is on a par - although not sure he would have held his own in against someone of Chagaev's quality like Skelton did, or won the European title... Shame Mason never fought Notice, that would have been a good yardstick.

Agree that Martin and Tillis especially were better than Skelton, Williams and McDermott in their primes - but when they fought Mason their were not young and hungry.

Not sure which era of domestic heavyweights were worst.... the era in the early 90's... or the era when we had Sprott, Williams, Audley, Skelton at the top of the tree. Probably in terms of talent the Mason era was better - with Hide, Bruno, Derek Williams etc - shame they never fought each other.

dondada wrote:

stujones wrote:I meant domestic (sorry I didn't mean to say domestic level) as in from the UK..... I repeat my question, Biggs aside name me a fighter who Mason BEAT who is beyond the even the John McDermott level of British fighters - let alone fighters on the level of a Danny Williams/ Matt Skelton. Jess Harding?

Haway, Stu. Alonso Raitliff, James Tillis, Hughroy Currie and Everett Martin were all on the level of John McDermott and - ye Gods - Matt Skelton. Some were beyond.

Mason also beat Mark Wills - who was fricking dangerous but horribly mismanaged throughout his career. Mason said Wills, not Lewis, was the hardest hitter he fought. Tim Witherspoon said the first Wills fight was his toughest fight, and he was pissing blood after the contest. Wills KOd Greg Page! His record looks uninspiring, and he was a dead body in the 1990s, but for a spell in the mid to late 80s he was quite a handful. Whacked Derek Williams in NYC I think.

Mason, like Bruno, was a victim of his overly cautious match makers, but he was a very good fighter.

loaded_gloves wrote:

dondada wrote:

stujones wrote:I meant domestic (sorry I didn't mean to say domestic level) as in from the UK..... I repeat my question, Biggs aside name me a fighter who Mason BEAT who is beyond the even the John McDermott level of British fighters - let alone fighters on the level of a Danny Williams/ Matt Skelton. Jess Harding?

Haway, Stu. Alonso Raitliff, James Tillis, Hughroy Currie and Everett Martin were all on the level of John McDermott and - ye Gods - Matt Skelton. Some were beyond.

Mason also beat Mark Wills - who was fricking dangerous but horribly mismanaged throughout his career. Mason said Wills, not Lewis, was the hardest hitter he fought. Tim Witherspoon said the first Wills fight was his toughest fight, and he was pissing blood after the contest. Wills KOd Greg Page! His record looks uninspiring, and he was a dead body in the 1990s, but for a spell in the mid to late 80s he was quite a handful. Whacked Derek Williams in NYC I think.

Couldn't remember and not heard of Wills before you mentioned him - so checked him out and yep certainly looks a fighter better than what his record suggest. Beat Greg Page twice (although Greg was losing to the likes of Joe Bugner at this stage). It seems to be an underated win.

Not sure if Wills is a world class yardstick or not, but it certainly looks like an underated win and possibly better than those mentioned previously - Tillis, Martin etc.