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Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 18 Nov 2012, 10:43
by banjo
In fairness wasn't Pudwill a late sub for Thomas Tate? No that it excuses the rest of the WBO gauntlet of shame.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 18 Nov 2012, 14:27
by mullenman
froch is a total legend and if people think he is not look at his fights
in jean pascal he defeated an undefeated fighted who is p4p listed
jermaine taylor knockout when he needed to at the end and had him under massive pressure late
dirrell ran from froch like a scared rat and he was rated better than ward at the time
lost a very close fight to kessler in denmark and things did not go frochs way that night
beat abraham 120-108 which was a 50, 50 fight at the time
average performance against glen johnson in usa
beaten 7 rounds to 5 against ward who will be pound for pound king soon
knocked the stuffing out of bute who was fav to beat him
master class last night against his first none household name in three years
say what you want but carl froch is a legend.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 18 Nov 2012, 14:50
by vxrandall
mullenman wrote:froch is a total legend and if people think he is not look at his fights
in jean pascal he defeated an undefeated fighted who is p4p listed
jermaine taylor knockout when he needed to at the end and had him under massive pressure late
dirrell ran from froch like a scared rat and he was rated better than ward at the time
lost a very close fight to kessler in denmark and things did not go frochs way that night
beat abraham 120-108 which was a 50, 50 fight at the time
average performance against glen johnson in usa
beaten 7 rounds to 5 against ward who will be pound for pound king soon
knocked the stuffing out of bute who was fav to beat him
master class last night against his first none household name in three years
say what you want but carl froch is a legend.
mullenman wrote:
lets look at calzaghes last 9 in reverse order for a fair comparison
jones jr - washed up, well past best. by then and still had joe on his bum
hopkins - took calzaghe all the way even in his 40s and scored 1st round kd
mikkel kesser - genuine opponent and a great win, his defining fight by far
peter manfredo junior - no comment, move on
sakio bika - tough opponent but genuine world title material?
jeff lacy - by all account the biggest hype job to come out of the states since 'the american dream' itself
evans ashira - who?, one win removed from previous loss
mario veit - see ashira
kabary salem - see veit, coming off a loss
i think thats 9.
oh and how many times did joe leave the UK in his 46 fight career? (sorry but yorkshire doesnt count either ;) ) 4 denmark once, germany once, america twice.
oh and froch was smashing up bute in his 29th pro fight. who was calzaghe smashing up in his 29th pro fight??
dean williams (16-2) in an 8 rounder. williams lost twice more before retiring. including to kessler in 2002.
i rest my case
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 18 Nov 2012, 15:01
by banjo
Kesslers 29th fight you mean?
Calzaghes 29th was either former WBC champ Woodhall or Omar Skeika can't remember exactly.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 18 Nov 2012, 15:15
by vxrandall
banjo wrote:Kesslers 29th fight you mean?
Calzaghes 29th was either former WBC champ Woodhall or Omar Skeika can't remember exactly.
oh...i may have not gone back to calzaghe's record when i did count . my apols. thanks for correction. nonetheless. rest stands.
indeed it was omar sheika he finished his career with 12 losses
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 18 Nov 2012, 15:20
by crusader
SamWise72 wrote:fasteddie wrote:name me one fighter that has had a run of fights that froch has had against world top ten ranked fighters? there isnt any past or present, fw is a joke
I dunno about this. Past or present? Look at Ray Leonard between Wilfred Benitez and and Tommy Hearns, or Ray Robinson lots of times through his career (sometimes he took bum fights between, but the guy was fighting every two weeks. Robinson fought Gene Fullmer twice and Carmen Basillio twice, back to back, in 14 months at one point.
Recently, nobody gets close, and Froch's willingness to fight the best stands up with the bravest runs in history, but it's not unparalleled.
Yes, there are several fighters who have fought and defeated a string of top ranked opponents. To suggest that Froch is the only fighter in boxing history to have such a run is laughable.
I'd also say that Pacquiao's run over the past several years is comparable to Froch's, although Pacquiao defeated some fighters who were generally ranked inside the top ten pound for pound.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 18 Nov 2012, 15:41
by vxrandall
crusader wrote:SamWise72 wrote:fasteddie wrote:name me one fighter that has had a run of fights that froch has had against world top ten ranked fighters? there isnt any past or present, fw is a joke
I dunno about this. Past or present? Look at Ray Leonard between Wilfred Benitez and and Tommy Hearns, or Ray Robinson lots of times through his career (sometimes he took bum fights between, but the guy was fighting every two weeks. Robinson fought Gene Fullmer twice and Carmen Basillio twice, back to back, in 14 months at one point.
Recently, nobody gets close, and Froch's willingness to fight the best stands up with the bravest runs in history, but it's not unparalleled.
Yes, there are several fighters who have fought and defeated a string of top ranked opponents. To suggest that Froch is the only fighter in boxing history to have such a run is laughable.
I'd also say that Pacquiao's run over the past several years is comparable to Froch's, although Pacquiao defeated some fighters who were generally ranked inside the top ten pound for pound.
noone should be claiming that frochs record is incomparable in history. its clearly not. but it does appear quite special in the current era as a string of back to back bouts.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 18 Nov 2012, 15:48
by crusader
I agree.
In recent years only a few boxers, such as Pacquiao, Marquez, Mayweather, Alexander, and Martinez have had comparable runs against top ranked opponents.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 18 Nov 2012, 16:03
by vxrandall
crusader wrote:I agree.
In recent years only a few boxers, such as Pacquiao, Marquez, Mayweather, Alexander, and Martinez have had comparable runs against top ranked opponents.
and they are all considered great fighters and with exception of mayweather, all have suffered losses. ergo the man that decided to take a verbal sh1t on his keyboard and submit it to the sun newspaper as an article is indeed 'talking complete b0ll0cks'
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 18 Nov 2012, 16:33
by dondada
I did a piece on Froch for BM a while back when he was on a run of five.
I compared him to every British world champ and narrowed down the contenders. The only one who could compare was Jimmy McLarnin who, in terms of really being a Brit, made Lennox Lewis look like John Bull.
Since then, Froch has kicked on further. Not an all-time global great but an all-time British great, for sure.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 18 Nov 2012, 16:45
by Dioufy
Why can't Al-Qaeda not capture this pudendum and behead him.
Sounds sick but he's that much of a twat.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 04:32
by danconnollyeire
Dioufy wrote:Why can't Al-Qaeda not capture this pudendum and behead him.
Sounds sick but he's that much of a twat.
Who?
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 06:33
by SamWise72
I can't help remembering how when Calzaghe was still champ, Froch was constantly calling him out, and talking about his ambition to go to the top, and boxing fans ridiculed him as not being good enough, and ridiculously arrogant. We diss the guys who won't go out and fight the best, and then when someone talks about doing it, we cut him off at the knees. We never appreciate our fighters til it's nearly too late, it seems.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 09:14
by hoot
SamWise72 wrote:I can't help remembering how when Calzaghe was still champ, Froch was constantly calling him out, and talking about his ambition to go to the top, and boxing fans ridiculed him as not being good enough, and ridiculously arrogant. We diss the guys who won't go out and fight the best, and then when someone talks about doing it, we cut him off at the knees. We never appreciate our fighters til it's nearly too late, it seems.
Spot on sam, which fighter do we have in britain today that we can get behind ? if the answer is nobody, Then it is pointless being boxing fan's !!
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 09:22
by jameswilson
The Dark Destroyer wrote:SamWise72 wrote:I can't help remembering how when Calzaghe was still champ, Froch was constantly calling him out, and talking about his ambition to go to the top, and boxing fans ridiculed him as not being good enough, and ridiculously arrogant. We diss the guys who won't go out and fight the best, and then when someone talks about doing it, we cut him off at the knees. We never appreciate our fighters til it's nearly too late, it seems.
Constantly calling someone out means nothing. Froch was just the British champ when Calzaghe was still at 168, that would be the equivalent of Kenny Anderson calling out Froch now, the idea that Calzaghe or Froch would fight either at the time or now is silly.
I think Froch was actually WBC no1 at one point when he was still calling Calzaghe out.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 09:27
by JLP
dondada wrote:Not an all-time global great but an all-time British great, for sure.
I agree with that. I know I stated that I don't think he's a great but I meant that in the ATGlobalG sense of the word. He is an ATBritishG, I agree.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 09:28
by SamWise72
The Dark Destroyer wrote:SamWise72 wrote:I can't help remembering how when Calzaghe was still champ, Froch was constantly calling him out, and talking about his ambition to go to the top, and boxing fans ridiculed him as not being good enough, and ridiculously arrogant. We diss the guys who won't go out and fight the best, and then when someone talks about doing it, we cut him off at the knees. We never appreciate our fighters til it's nearly too late, it seems.
Constantly calling someone out means nothing. Froch was just the British champ when Calzaghe was still at 168, that would be the equivalent of Kenny Anderson calling out Froch now, the idea that Calzaghe or Froch would fight either at the time or now is silly.
I'm not saying he had done enough to merit the fight, but his chances of ever doing anything were dismissed. I don't remember when there was last a British prospect, who wasn't getting pulled apart by British fans. Maybe Hatton? Most are subjected to lots of "He'll never make it", and I remember lots and lots of "Carl Froch is a joke". Well, he may not be the second coming of Ray Robinson but Froch is no joke and he never was. Who are we dismissing now that's liable to actually shake up the world? The only big prospect I can remember really wanting to dismiss was Audley.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 09:33
by SamWise72
I think we fall into the trap of dismissing anyone who isn't going to be P4P #1 as useless, or a joke. We put down fighters who are too defensive, too aggressive, too cocky, too ambitious, not ambitious enough etc etc. Froch is one who has backed his talk all the way. He's gone out and fought the best available all the way up, never been afraid to put it on the line, and when he's lost (always giving his all), he's taken it on the chin, come back, and improved his reputation. He's proven beyond doubt that he's not the P4P #1, and I, for one, wish that more fighters had the courage to really try to be that, and fall short.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 11:05
by Counter-puncher
The Dark Destroyer wrote:No-one is dismissing anyone. But you can't seriously think Froch should have been in contention for a fight with Calzaghe at any point really? Calzaghe fought his last ever fight before Froch even fought Pascal. Their careers simply didn't crossover at a stage where the fight was warranted, it's as simple as that.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 11:32
by deadpan
Do you think Franny Wazza blanches at his own haphazard logic and embittered bias as he scribes his column?
Or is he in a tragic state of denial?
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 11:43
by Crazyboy
danconnollyeire wrote:Dioufy wrote:Why can't Al-Qaeda not capture this pudendum and behead him.
Sounds sick but he's that much of a twat.
Who?
I'm guessing its regarding the person the thread is about? maybe
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 11:52
by SamWise72
The Dark Destroyer wrote:No-one is dismissing anyone. But you can't seriously think Froch should have been in contention for a fight with Calzaghe at any point really? Calzaghe fought his last ever fight before Froch even fought Pascal. Their careers simply didn't crossover at a stage where the fight was warranted, it's as simple as that.
You miss the point. People
were dismissing Froch at the time. Not just on his challenge to Calzaghe, which was unwarranted, but on his ability to go anywhere beyond British title level. I recall reading "Froch is a joke", and "He has no defence, he'll get knocked spark out the first time he meets anyone of quality". And this was
after he beat Reid.
None of it matters with Froch now, but I wonder who else is currently being dismissed who later, we'll be eulogizing. Why not enjoy fighters now?
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 13:12
by vxrandall
hoot wrote:SamWise72 wrote:I can't help remembering how when Calzaghe was still champ, Froch was constantly calling him out, and talking about his ambition to go to the top, and boxing fans ridiculed him as not being good enough, and ridiculously arrogant. We diss the guys who won't go out and fight the best, and then when someone talks about doing it, we cut him off at the knees. We never appreciate our fighters til it's nearly too late, it seems.
Spot on sam, which fighter do we have in britain today that we can get behind ? if the answer is nobody, Then it is pointless being boxing fan's !!
here is the current top ten (using this sites p4p rankings) and my opinion on each, feel free to disagree. i back (or not) fighters as much on their personality/character as their in ring achievements.
froch - confident but not arrogant, backs up his words with actions. deservedly britains #1
haye - seeks 'limelight' too much and doesnt put in the time/effort relative to what he wants out of the sport which seems more financial than any true recognition of 'greatness'
brooke - likeable, seems to be focused and putting in the graft now and will be good to see if he is as good as people think he can be
burns - also likeable, humble but there is a question mark against his legtimacy as a top sfw with poor defences after martinez win, conveniently timed jump to 135 as broner installed as mandatory and picking up 135 title after marquez moved north. a top 5 lightweight but needs to take a tough one instead of wasting time on the walshs of the world. like someone lower down the list, may want better than he is getting but not doing anything about it.
Fury for a minute he looked like he might be someone to get behind on the british heavyweight scene but price turned up and fury turned himself into the bad guy with his twitter account. cant like anyone that engages in slanging matches with fans or makes live on air comments like he did about price/bellew. a cartoon character. better suited to wwe
macklin - tough, rugged, honest guy. not that far removed from froch in some respects and definitely got robbed by german judges.
bellew - with growing ability, an obvious boxing brain and a lot of heart and humility and time for his fans (borne out of his love for Everton), regardless of whether he wears the strap or not, and i hope he does, he is a decent guy and good for the sport in this country
afolabi - has very little connection with british fight fans, probably on account of his us residency
khan - terrific gobshite. head got far too big after olympics and has far too much family interference. for someone who has achieved as much as he, he should be on the same pedestal as froch yet no matter what happens his mouth always finds a way to connect with his own foot. real shame. but he brings it on himself by not learning either to shut up or have someone else do his talking for him
cleverly - once likeable, became an object of mockery through the choice of defences (choice being used loosely) but i now have a little pity because he is either unable to take control of his own destiny or is so patently short of intellect that he continues to believe the garbage he is fed and that is dropped, rose petal like, at his feet. either way, cant like the guy until he stops pretending to be a champion and actually starts showing it.
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 18:58
by ALI
SamWise72 wrote:The Dark Destroyer wrote:SamWise72 wrote:I can't help remembering how when Calzaghe was still champ, Froch was constantly calling him out, and talking about his ambition to go to the top, and boxing fans ridiculed him as not being good enough, and ridiculously arrogant. We diss the guys who won't go out and fight the best, and then when someone talks about doing it, we cut him off at the knees. We never appreciate our fighters til it's nearly too late, it seems.
Constantly calling someone out means nothing. Froch was just the British champ when Calzaghe was still at 168, that would be the equivalent of Kenny Anderson calling out Froch now, the idea that Calzaghe or Froch would fight either at the time or now is silly.
I'm not saying he had done enough to merit the fight, but his chances of ever doing anything were dismissed. I don't remember when there was last a British prospect, who wasn't getting pulled apart by British fans. Maybe Hatton? Most are subjected to lots of "He'll never make it", and I remember lots and lots of "Carl Froch is a joke". Well, he may not be the second coming of Ray Robinson but Froch is no joke and he never was. Who are we dismissing now that's liable to actually shake up the world? The only big prospect I can remember really wanting to dismiss was Audley.
I agree with you both.
Although i called Calzaghe for everything during his career for avoiding almost everyone who was anyone, i have no problem with the fact that he did not face Froch. Froch simply came into his own to late for this fight to happen.
I always apreciated Froch was a good fighter, but i never backed him to become a world beater. I told anyone who would listen that Brian Magee would win a UD against him (i was'nt miles of track either, Magee boxed well against Froch). I watched all of Froch's fights, but it was not until he fought Pascal that i became a fan, and with every successive fight my liking for him has grown. I am now well and truely pro Froch and have been for some time.
Us Brits do have a tendancy to shoot down our own, i agree with that, but as long as you are prepared to be proved wrong i have no real problem with that. Froch has proved many, many people wrong and continues to do so, not only in Britain and the USA, but all around the world. He is a breath of fresh air for British boxing and puts the likes of career dodger Calzaghe to shame!
Re: FW slags Froch opponent run, except for Johnson
Posted: 20 Nov 2012, 05:53
by SamWise72
I'm not campaigning for Calzaghe to have fought Froch, even if it might look like it. Did sound like Allegedly was saying he wanted to and Froch ducked him, but I don't buy that.