BoxRec

The 1bangkid wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:

I have followed this from the start and my opinion is that HomoHenry is talking rubbish LMAO at Tyson, in truth, was a defensive fighter.........and Dempsey was a better boxer than mike tyson

He was. Cus taught Tyson NOT to rely on offense, but focus on defense. Tyson had such great head movement, etc to avoid shots. Cus made him spar wleterweights and middleweights (not allowing Mike to throw back once, but to dodge shots). And when his opponents missed; their momentum was used against them, and Tyson would fire and this "walking into blows" would maximum Tyson's power. He had natural power, yes, but at his peak his strength wasn't offense, but defense. It was that defense that set up the power shots. And.... Dempsey was a better tactician than Mike, as was Joe Louis a better tactician than Ali.

Yes he had a good defense but that was part of a package Defense and offense combined that dont make him a defensive fighter like Pep or Sweet Pea............

Peak Tyson beats any Wlad Klitschko within 3 Rounds as soon as Wlad hesitates Tyson takes him OUT

HomicideHenry wrote:Again, here goes the ego let's go by your logic and say 99% of people in the IBHOF dont belong there either and that Tyson was the ultimate heavyweight and would have even beaten Muhammad Ali, etc. let's forget Tyson's weak psyche, his lack of infighting skills, the fact he was never the same following the death of Cus, and the fact that the majority of the people he defeated Tyson admits were tomato cans with such inferior abilities that he looked better than he was. He NEVER fought a giant like this until Lewis and was squashed like a bug. He couldn't handle Holyfield who was a blown up light heavyweight (in the minds of people then), his greatest wins were against an inactive Larry Holmes and a scared shitless Michael Spinks. PERIOD. He was overated and still is. Let's go down the list shall we, hmm? Biggs, an admitted drug user and average at best pro. Tubbs, a feather fisted fat guy who was so out of shape that they had Ribalta as a stand by opponent. Bruno, by no stretch of the imagination got to where he was at by beating up echoes of Bugner and limited muscle heads like Jumo Cummings. Berbick, who cares he went fifteen with Holmes, outside of that he beat up a Parkinson's riddled Ali and was so limited and awkward. Bonecrusher Smith, just a big strong man and tied Tyson up all night and the best punch of the night was from Smith. Thomas and Tucker were legit, but Thomas broke his hand early. Holmes hadn't fought in years, and with no tune ups fought Tyson and got caught in the ropes (literally). And lets not go on about his post-prison opponents, complete stinkers all the way around. He beat AVERAGE AT BEST guys.

I know what you will say next, "Who did Vladimir beat?", let's put it to the test. He avenged his loss to Lamon Brewster, and unfortunately didn't get a shot at Sanders again (he retired to the golf course). He defeated Chris Byrd twice, when Byrd made a reputation as a blown up middleweight who made giant heavyweights look foolish. He beat Jameel McCline, beat Mercer (albeit Mercer was old), he beat Samuel Peter (how many title holders is that so far? Yep four), he has made 18 title defenses and is two away from tying Holmes and seven away from Joe Louis' record. Don't forget he also dominated Chagaev, another man with that swarming style. That's five title holders. And without a threat in sight, he will surpass Joe Louis without question. I can't see Pevetkin, Fury, Price, Arreola, etc being able to upset him. You can call it the "Bum of The Month" and say Vladimir doesnt have that commitment to chasing the kayo and being aggressive, but since when has he ever been that guy to make complaints about? Nobody appreciated Lewis because his style was boring, until he retired and we were left with the John Ruiz types. Same deal with both Klitschko brothers, when they retire EVERYBODY will be wishing one or the other would come back. Tyson, by no means, was as dominate as these guys (if you factor in total defenses against top mandatories versus time schedules; Tyson doesn't come close). Style wise, Tyson can present them with problems, but it will take a big, strong, counter puncher whose very tough to be able to off set the Klitschko's. Not a small swarming type of opponent. Oh and throw in Imbragimov, that makes it six title holders. Oh, and I forgot Haye too, that's seven. What more do you need? The guy was also a gold medalist in the Olympics, he has that pedigree. Throw in the crucial training he had from Emmanuel Stewart, who even said the brothers would have possibly beaten Lennox Lewis, you have a dominate heavyweight whose capable of beating most any champion in history.

Maybe you need to think, "Gee maybe these guys are so good that they make everyone look like amateurs and dull as shit" as opposed to looking at them as being boring, safety first fighters. The objective to boxing is not to get hit sir, but to hit the other man without being hit. Maybe thats not the exciting way for the fans, but that is what boxing is about. To say Vladimir wouldn't fight like a big man, use his size and reach and ring generalship against Tyson to win, is ridiculous. Ali did the same, on the reatreat throwing high volume jabs, tiring opponents out with pushing down on opponent's heads, etc. What's the damn difference? Is he too being safety first? Is he fighting scared? No. He was being smart cus Ali wasn't a banger, and wouldn't win fights slugging. Neither is Klitschko a banger, and you need to seriously stop dictating opinions based on the fact he doesn't do it and figure in he would lose if he did. You do not know this any more than the man in the moon, he hasn't yet faced it.

dempseyfire wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:Again, here goes the ego let's go by your logic and say 99% of people in the IBHOF dont belong there either and that Tyson was the ultimate heavyweight and would have even beaten Muhammad Ali, etc. let's forget Tyson's weak psyche, his lack of infighting skills, the fact he was never the same following the death of Cus, and the fact that the majority of the people he defeated Tyson admits were tomato cans with such inferior abilities that he looked better than he was. He NEVER fought a giant like this until Lewis and was squashed like a bug. He couldn't handle Holyfield who was a blown up light heavyweight (in the minds of people then), his greatest wins were against an inactive Larry Holmes and a scared shitless Michael Spinks. PERIOD. He was overated and still is. Let's go down the list shall we, hmm? Biggs, an admitted drug user and average at best pro. Tubbs, a feather fisted fat guy who was so out of shape that they had Ribalta as a stand by opponent. Bruno, by no stretch of the imagination got to where he was at by beating up echoes of Bugner and limited muscle heads like Jumo Cummings. Berbick, who cares he went fifteen with Holmes, outside of that he beat up a Parkinson's riddled Ali and was so limited and awkward. Bonecrusher Smith, just a big strong man and tied Tyson up all night and the best punch of the night was from Smith. Thomas and Tucker were legit, but Thomas broke his hand early. Holmes hadn't fought in years, and with no tune ups fought Tyson and got caught in the ropes (literally). And lets not go on about his post-prison opponents, complete stinkers all the way around. He beat AVERAGE AT BEST guys.

I know what you will say next, "Who did Vladimir beat?", let's put it to the test. He avenged his loss to Lamon Brewster, and unfortunately didn't get a shot at Sanders again (he retired to the golf course). He defeated Chris Byrd twice, when Byrd made a reputation as a blown up middleweight who made giant heavyweights look foolish. He beat Jameel McCline, beat Mercer (albeit Mercer was old), he beat Samuel Peter (how many title holders is that so far? Yep four), he has made 18 title defenses and is two away from tying Holmes and seven away from Joe Louis' record. Don't forget he also dominated Chagaev, another man with that swarming style. That's five title holders. And without a threat in sight, he will surpass Joe Louis without question. I can't see Pevetkin, Fury, Price, Arreola, etc being able to upset him. You can call it the "Bum of The Month" and say Vladimir doesnt have that commitment to chasing the kayo and being aggressive, but since when has he ever been that guy to make complaints about? Nobody appreciated Lewis because his style was boring, until he retired and we were left with the John Ruiz types. Same deal with both Klitschko brothers, when they retire EVERYBODY will be wishing one or the other would come back. Tyson, by no means, was as dominate as these guys (if you factor in total defenses against top mandatories versus time schedules; Tyson doesn't come close). Style wise, Tyson can present them with problems, but it will take a big, strong, counter puncher whose very tough to be able to off set the Klitschko's. Not a small swarming type of opponent. Oh and throw in Imbragimov, that makes it six title holders. Oh, and I forgot Haye too, that's seven. What more do you need? The guy was also a gold medalist in the Olympics, he has that pedigree. Throw in the crucial training he had from Emmanuel Stewart, who even said the brothers would have possibly beaten Lennox Lewis, you have a dominate heavyweight whose capable of beating most any champion in history.

Maybe you need to think, "Gee maybe these guys are so good that they make everyone look like amateurs and dull as shit" as opposed to looking at them as being boring, safety first fighters. The objective to boxing is not to get hit sir, but to hit the other man without being hit. Maybe thats not the exciting way for the fans, but that is what boxing is about. To say Vladimir wouldn't fight like a big man, use his size and reach and ring generalship against Tyson to win, is ridiculous. Ali did the same, on the reatreat throwing high volume jabs, tiring opponents out with pushing down on opponent's heads, etc. What's the damn difference? Is he too being safety first? Is he fighting scared? No. He was being smart cus Ali wasn't a banger, and wouldn't win fights slugging. Neither is Klitschko a banger, and you need to seriously stop dictating opinions based on the fact he doesn't do it and figure in he would lose if he did. You do not know this any more than the man in the moon, he hasn't yet faced it.

I stopped reading when you said Chagaev had a 'swarming style' . .

Beating a paper-titlist in this day and age means jack squat.

Syntax Error wrote:Assuming we are talking about the Wladimir of today, I think it would have been similar to the Boneclutcher -v- Tyson fight, with Wladimir clinging onto Tyson to try & stop him from working, but ending up losing on points.

If it's the Wladimir of 2003, then Tyson wins inside three.

Vitali -v- Tyson would have been a whole lot more interesting though.