Raven fan here as well....but I understand we are the underdog....
Good point made on Cooper and Frazier
and.....I'd still go with the Shavers moment.....the difference to me was that Ali was too green to know what to do when Cooper hit him....When Shavers hit him, he had been well versed in the art of illusion....and he was still fully unable to conjure any sort of mask at least for a moment.
I've often thought that Shavers must have blinked, and not seen what the camera saw, what else would explain why he let Ali off the hook?
BoxBuzz wrote:Raven fan here as well....but I understand we are the underdog....
Good point made on Cooper and Frazier
and.....I'd still go with the Shavers moment.....the difference to me was that Ali was too green to know what to do when Cooper hit him....When Shavers hit him, he had been well versed in the art of illusion....and he was still fully unable to conjure any sort of mask at least for a moment.
I've often thought that Shavers must have blinked, and not seen what the camera saw, what else would explain why he let Ali off the hook?
From my recollection there was only 9 or 10 seconds left in the round. Agreed that punch could felled an elephant.
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:That's splitting hairs, I think he was more hurt in round 11 against Joe than he was for either of those knockdowns. Anyway, it's Raven time.
Ha, I wasn't trying to be funny or split hairs. All I originally commented on was being hit the hardest doesn't always have to be from the hardest puncher. Cooper wasn't in the same league as many of the punchers Ali fought, and by all accounts weighed 12st 12lbs at fight time so was a little bloke in comparison to a monster like Foreman, yet his punch knocked Ali stupid. If you think Frazier hurt him more thats fair enough.
BoxBuzz wrote:
and.....I'd still go with the Shavers moment.....the difference to me was that Ali was too green to know what to do when Cooper hit him....When Shavers hit him, he had been well versed in the art of illusion....and he was still fully unable to conjure any sort of mask at least for a moment.
To be fair the Cooper hook was so quick I don't think Ali would of had time to play act his way out of it. The bell rang and saved Ali so we will never know if he could have survived another minute or so.
I'd say, it's fair to rate him among the best punchers, but definitely not the best one. He's overrated in this sense. What makes him the best ever? The KO ratio? It's the misleading way to measure power, remember Vitali. The likes of Foreman, Marciano, Frazier, Tyson, Liston, Dempsey looked way more deadly as punchers.
It's amazing how many times fighters name a guy they KO'd or went the distance with as the hardest puncher they ever faced, instead of the guy who knocked them out.
Seamus wrote: ↑12 Oct 2022, 10:17
It's amazing how many times fighters name a guy they KO'd or went the distance with as the hardest puncher they ever faced, instead of the guy who knocked them out.
Fighters are obviously biased, they tell things to elevate their greatness and it's normal. So, often we see giving more credit to those, who gave them less problems.
Seamus wrote: ↑12 Oct 2022, 10:17
It's amazing how many times fighters name a guy they KO'd or went the distance with as the hardest puncher they ever faced, instead of the guy who knocked them out.
Some guys simply aren't honest.
Something else that can happen is that a guy doesn't get nailed by someone in their particular fight. Lennox Lewis might think Rahman hit harder than Tua. Maurice Hope probably thought Benitez was a hard puncher.
As for who hit the hardest, there probably isn't any one factor to look. All be be argued against. We just have to look at everything. Fighter after fighter that fought Shavers thought he hit the hardest. On film, he looks like he had devastating power. He stopped some good opponents. He hurt Ali (albiet past his prime Ali) and hurt a prime Holmes even more. Everything points to Shavers.
Prime Foreman would probably be #2. Course he was a better finisher than Shavers.
I don’t think it’s that, being knocked spark out is often painless, taking punches for an entire fight will often be far more painful. Other factors too, where you are hit, how flush it lands etc
Caractacus wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 16:38
What if Julien Jackson was "bald-headed" ?
Earnie Shavers was only one inch taller then him.
Jackson is probably the hardest puncher ever, the most powerful, whatever you call that, leave alone all those heavyweights. He had an exceptional ability to put his own weight in a punch, which knocked people out cold. Name me any guy from the upper weights, who was knocking so many opponents the f*ck out with a one punch. When Jackson was catching men, those were wobbling around like the spaghetti-legged ones, if they weren't simply falling to the ground like dead bodies.
Caractacus wrote: ↑13 Oct 2022, 16:38
What if Julien Jackson was "bald-headed" ?
Earnie Shavers was only one inch taller then him.
Jackson is probably the hardest puncher ever, the most powerful, whatever you call that, leave alone all those heavyweights. He had an exceptional ability to put his own weight in a punch, which knocked people out cold. Name me any guy from the upper weights, who was knocking so many opponents the f*ck out with a one punch. When Jackson was catching men, those were wobbling around like the spaghetti-legged ones, if they weren't simply falling to the ground like dead bodies.
I'd put Jimmy Wilde in there as being possibly the hardest puncher ever. But because he weighed only 108lbs nobody wants such a small fella on top of that list. I'd also hazard a theory that the lower the weight of the fighters, it becomes progressively more difficult to score a KO
